Typing: Whistleblowers and their Hunters

[Ex-User (5841)]

EDIT: Skip to post 3 for the OP crystallization.

I'm necroing this thread, the reason for which I'll elaborate later. All are the same person. Have at it, peeps:

 

[Ink]

Re: Type from photos...?

I'd guess ISFJ...

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Re: Type from photos...?

I'm disappointed I didn't get much of a response, but the reason I'm curious is because I believe that this man is a sociopath. This is less of a good or bad thing and more of an interesting thing, for me at least. Case in point: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=wisdom-from-psychopaths

His name is Adrian Lamo, a decently well known public figure. He is the hacker who turned in Bradley Manning. His wiki page is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Lamo

Relevant quotes and my thoughts:

"Popularly called the "homeless hacker" for his transient lifestyle, Lamo spent most of his travels couch-surfing, squatting in abandoned buildings and traveling to Internet cafes, libraries and universities to investigate networks, and sometimes exploiting security holes. Despite performing authorized and unauthorized vulnerability assessments for several large, high-profile entities, Lamo refused to accept payment for his services"

I believe the refusal to accept payment is not altruistic, but narcissistic. Recall that a component of narcissism is a delusion of self-sufficiency: http://www.intpforum.com/showpost.php?p=371112&postcount=87

"During this period, in 2001, he overdosed on prescription amphetamines."

Hedonism much?

"an ex-girlfriend of Lamo's described him as 'very controlling,' stating, 'He carried a stun gun, which he used on me.'"

More narcissism.

"Lamo claimed in a Wired article that in May 2010, after reporting his backpack stolen, an investigating officer noted unusual behavior and detained him. He was diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome after having been placed on a 72-hour involuntary psychiatric hold, which was extended to a total of nine days."

Asperger's doesn't get people hospitalized, however people who are diagnosed with Asperger's tend to have issues with social norms and emotion.

"In December 2001, Lamo was praised by Worldcom for helping to fortify their corporate security. In February 2002 he broke into the internal computer network of The New York Times, adding his name to the internal database of expert sources, and using the paper's LexisNexis account to conduct research on high-profile subjects. The New York Times filed a complaint, and a warrant for Lamo's arrest was issued in August 2003 following a 15-month investigation by federal prosecutors in New York. At 10:15 AM on September 9, after spending a few days in hiding, he surrendered to the US Marshals in Sacramento, California. He re-surrendered to the FBI in New York City on September 11, and pled guilty to one felony count of computer crimes against Microsoft, LexisNexis and The New York Times on January 8, 2004.

Later in 2004, Lamo was sentenced to six months detention at his parents' home plus two years probation, and was ordered to pay roughly $65,000 in restitution. He was convicted of compromising security at The New York Times and Microsoft, Yahoo! and WorldCom."

He's gray hat, fearless, and uses leverage extraordinarily well to produce personal gain.

"Lamo has characterized his decision to work with the government as morally ambiguous but objectively necessary, writing in The Guardian 'There were no right choices that day, only less wrong ones. It was cold, it was needful, and it was no one's to make except mine,'"

This speaks for itself, amirite?



So I ask, what can we tell, physically, about individuals such as Lamo; and also, the same for the likes of whistleblowers?

Manning: https://www.google.com/search?gs_rn...urce=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=t0-5UejwI5Wv4AOM94HgCw

Snowden: https://www.google.com/search?gs_rn...urce=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=wk-5Uev8Oub94AO8noCYBw

Might there be similarities between predator (individual as well as institutional) and prey? If so, what do they share?

 

[r4ch3l]

He looks more natural in the first picture; those who are narcissists/sociopaths seem to be very postured in photographs...

Snowden gives me INTJ vibes. Intelligent. Grandiose. Idealistic. Great career despite being a dropout (this has been a common theme with a few of the INTJs I have known as well as some of the ISTPs).

 

[Ink]

I believe pictures can be very misleading, videos are really necessary to get a "feel" for a person imo

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

I believe pictures can be very misleading, videos are really necessary imo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGTYyltYi80

Snowden: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yB3n9fu-rM

And as for Manning, well this is what you're stuck with: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xaa9tsQKgYY

And what the hell, let's throw in this guy too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6mcSXge4Qo

 

[loveofreason]

Re: Type from photos...?

Might there be similarities between predator (individual as well as institutional) and prey? If so, what do they share?

This is a really interesting proposition, that deserves thought. (Unfortunately I have no typing skills relevant to picture or video, but I'll be thinking about this for a long while! )

 

[Ink]

1st guy I'd guess INTP
2nd guy I'd guess INTJ
3rd guy I'd guess INTP
4th guy I'd guess INTP

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Re: Type from photos...?

This is a really interesting proposition, that deserves thought. (Unfortunately I have no typing skills relevant to picture or video, but I'll be thinking about this for a long while! )

Copying Absurdity's quote here for posterity:

There was an interesting article in the New Yorker about how this guy Snowden isn't a hero at all but rather a narcissistic asshole. Fun read.

1st guy I'd guess INTP
2nd guy I'd guess INTJ
3rd guy I'd guess INTP
4th guy I'd guess INTP

My thoughts are:
????
INTP
INTP
INTP

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Question: Do whistleblowers have a martyr complex?

 

[TimeAsylums]

Question: Do whistleblowers have a martyr complex?

Guess on the guy is INTP

Anyway, it seems likely that they indeed could have a martyr complex, but I'd do it just because.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Anyway, it seems likely that they indeed could have a martyr complex, but I'd do it just because.

So they have a martyr complex rooted in narcissism.

 

[ummidk]

So they have a martyr complex rooted in narcissism.

most martyrs probably do

 

[TimeAsylums]

So they have a martyr complex rooted in narcissism.

While these two aren't mutually exclusive, why go complex with it, occam's razor dat.

Attention hog for the narcissism
Martyr complex possibly rooted in narcissism thereby attention
plain narcissism
plain martyr complex

but really, any combination of the above.

However seeing as I have not been properly trained and educated, I don't see how a martyr complex comes about on it's on without some deep involvement, one example being narcissism, so yeah you could be right.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Occam's razor is at direct odds with complexity theory, systems theory, and well... most of the real world.

 

[TimeAsylums]

real world

...jk.

 

[ummidk]

Occam's razor is at direct odds with complexity theory, systems theory, and well... most of the real world.

Irrelevant

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Irrelevant

Cute.

Reductionism strikes another victim.

 

[TimeAsylums]

Just noticed that third pic's website upload domain.

If it works for a sociopath it's gotta work for everyone, right?

WithFriendship.com

 

[Puffy]

Re: Type from photos...?

My thoughts are:
????
INTP
INTP
INTP

Could I ask how come? Manning and Snowdon seem like they could be, I'm unsure about Lamo.

One of my friends is a computer science lecturer, and he knows (or has met) Manning and a fair few other hackers.

The (general) persona reminds me a lot of the Riddler from Batman (who I think is meant to be histrionic/ narcissistic). They're testing and outsmarting the system as a means of displaying their own intelligence.

I don't really know enough about these individual people to say if they share the same qualities though.

Occam's razor is at direct odds with complexity theory, systems theory, and well... most of the real world.

arghh, exactly, can't think how many conversations I've had to say the same in recently...

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Re: Type from photos...?

Could I ask how come? Manning and Snowdon seem like they could be, I'm unsure about Lamo.

One of my friends is a computer science lecturer, and he knows (or has met) Manning and a fair few other hackers.

The (general) persona reminds me a lot of the Riddler from Batman (who I think is meant to be histrionic/ narcissistic). They're testing and outsmarting the system as a means of displaying their own intelligence.

I don't really know enough about these individual people to say if they share the same qualities though.

I'd peg Manning, Snowden, and Assange INTPs, and Lamo INFJ. The first three enjoy/ed operating quietly in the background; relatively little need for fanfare and glory until they were discovered (arguably with the exception of Snowden, though he appears to be enjoying the die down of media attention sent his way, and who knows when he was "discovered" by the U.S. gov). Lamo comes across as more of an exhibitionist, giving presentations about being a virtual Elmer Fudd.

I agree with the Riddler persona of the hunter (Lamo) whereas Manning and Snowden come across... as having similar styles but different motives, as if Snowden is testing his intelligence against the system and Lamo is testing his against people like Snowden.

There's also a facial structure thing with Lamo's brow ridge and jaws that I'm not comfortable calling anything important, but it's there.

I'll also argue that if Snowden were INTJ, he'd have had a more cogent and direct escape plan.

arghh, exactly, can't think how many conversations I've had to say the same in recently...

Reality may well equal Occam's razor ^ Occam's razor...

 

[ZenRaiden]

I think I would have to see and interact with Adrian Lamo first to see if he is indeed a sociopath. Also since he was diagnosed with Autism I am not sure how far his narcissistic personality goes. With autistic people who are constantly absorbed in their own activities and only talk about their activities I am not supprised he is viewed as a sociopath. However I tend to think of this as a grey zone since even very intelligent Autistic people can have deficit in ToM and lack empathy, and being so absorbed in the single activity they talk about all the time they create a world of their own. This is a habit of autistic people and INTP as well. When viewing his achivements he may have a disorted view of him self and as well we are applying an standard to a very unusual persona.....what ever happend to being an individual with individual quirks. We all have some deficits and his corellate with autistic people. Also the fact that he lives an unusual life style compels me to think that his interactions with people will be double unusual. This is however not writen in his defence, rather I write this in absence of proof that I would really like to have.

Also maybe someone forgot to tell him not to taser women.
Just joking