Test for new job.

[Mattt]

I had a two hour interview for a potential new role today.
The interview was free-flowing and comfortable, almost without pressure.

The role is a new position, created to solve some ongoing issues in a services desk. It's a people managing, communication role, which requires a strong technical background.

If the interview went well, they will send me off for psych testing.

If the tests reveal my INTPisms, should I expect them to find me unsuitable for the role.
The fact is I don't really care much for managing people, and written communication is not my strong point either (although I'm getting better at both).

If I think about the role as managing the report's roles as inputs to a system, and the comms as gathering information / instructing a system, I can see myself doing well at it.

Am I kidding myself ?
In truth I want the job because it will get me into a global corp at a senior level.
a gateway role.
...and I need the cash.

hmm, posting this has raised more questions than I have written.

bedtime. nn.

~ Matt

 

[Jordan~]

Is it possible that you could cheat the psych tests? Make yourself out to be an E?

 

[EditorOne]

Isn't that like, self denial or something?

The way tests came back for me on management/supervising was more or less: "No reason why he can't succeed." That was a few years ago; maybe now they've refined the reasons. :-)

 

[grrreg]

do not let them know you have no interest managing people, in other words that (robot voice): YES ,YOU ARE EXTREMELY APPROACHABLE AND HELPFUL, ALWAYS... and yes, don't mention the lack of written communication panache either...LOOK AT THE JOB DESCRIPTION....in truth, there may be no real MBTI personality category to make best fit for this job, anyhow, they won't use that to test you with.
They will ask you questions about being helpful and approachable and (blech) organized, possibly by extraversion type/structure questions. Do you like playing on a team? What are your outside hobbies? Would you rather go to party or read a book?
We all know one has nothing to do with the other as far as being a good manager. All the extraverted people I ever worked for I totally loathed, since they were so annoying, but then I'm sure they didn't like me either. If you already had the interview with the person who would be your boss, you have to ask yourself, how did you like that person?
Were you sure to act in the out-going interview savvy manner when you met ?
Reflect on how you were and what you need to do to get hired, then do the job description as YOU CAN. However, you did say you had no interest managing people. Think about why.

I say all these things because yes, I really do think introverted people are not as respected and prejudiced against in the workplace and are under- represented especially at manager level positions. In fact I think it's fairly rare to see one there at all unless he or she has been at that company forever. So, I advocate acting to get your foot in.
The extraverted ones will act just as much, but the feeling will be easier for the interviewer to say, well, that was a nice person . Even if that person was a total moron.

good luck

 

[Decaf]

Corporate culture has an annoying habit of using psychological instruments unethically. Here's some examples...

The Honesty Test. This test is supposed to determine whether or not you are likely to steal from the company. It is terribly biased and asks questions that only arguably are even things a potential employer can be allowed to ask (of course, failure to answer the question will likely result in you not being hired). It asks about concepts of ownership and 'what you would do if' questions, but be careful. Don't answer like the most honest person ever, and don't fudge too much into being a real person. To score well you want a happy mix of real life person and fantasy employee.

Personality Trait Test. These tests have been studied extensively and the only factor that has had any positive correlation with job performance is 'conscientiousness'. Be conscientious. I wouldn't normally consider trying to fib on these tests, but I have a growing distrust on how these normally useful tools are used to sort applicants. As far as extroversion preference, there has been no correlation positive or negative to suggest one score over another. So why do they still test for it? Grrreg is right... there is a bias toward extroversion. Take note of how I spelled that though. That's not how they spell it, but its what they mean. They don't want to know if you are introverted or extraverted the way the MBTI does. They want to know if you can be socialable. Of course the false dichotomy that they assume is that if you are not extroverted, you must be anti-social. When answering those questions think about what you are capable of, not what you prefer. Besides that, I think answering honestly is the right way to go. They may use some of the results as a means of getting to know you and you don't want them to think you're someone you're not.

 

[Aphasia]

Theoretically speaking, I wouldn't mind lying to people who want to be fooled. In real life, I don't know what I'll do. Just one thing: the other candidates aren't necessarily more honest or deserving of the job or whatever. It's likely that many of them will be, if not incompetent, no better or worse than yourself.

Also, if you read what I just said, you'll notice I'm not giving away anything useful. I do know it's true that for some (many?) people in business, introversion= phail. So... here's my guess: your chances are bad, or at least not as good as those of some of the other candidates. Any impressive credentials?

 

[Mattt]

Corporate culture has an annoying habit of using psychological instruments unethically. Here's some examples...

The Honesty Test. This test is supposed to determine whether or not you are likely to steal from the company. It is terribly biased and asks questions that only arguably are even things a potential employer can be allowed to ask (of course, failure to answer the question will likely result in you not being hired). It asks about concepts of ownership and 'what you would do if' questions, but be careful. Don't answer like the most honest person ever, and don't fudge too much into being a real person. To score well you want a happy mix of real life person and fantasy employee.

OK I will fabricate an occasionally mildly dishonestly construct and answer morality questions with that character.
Paradox: if I lie about being honest, that's dishonest, so I didn't lie.

Personality Trait Test. These tests have been studied extensively and the only factor that has had any positive correlation with job performance is 'conscientiousness'. Be conscientious. I wouldn't normally consider trying to fib on these tests, but I have a growing distrust on how these normally useful tools are used to sort applicants. As far as extroversion preference, there has been no correlation positive or negative to suggest one score over another. So why do they still test for it? Grrreg is right... there is a bias toward extroversion. Take note of how I spelled that though. That's not how they spell it, but its what they mean. They don't want to know if you are introverted or extraverted the way the MBTI does. They want to know if you can be socialable. Of course the false dichotomy that they assume is that if you are not extroverted, you must be anti-social. When answering those questions think about what you are capable of, not what you prefer. Besides that, I think answering honestly is the right way to go. They may use some of the results as a means of getting to know you and you don't want them to think you're someone you're not.[/quote]

Yeah, I'd be leaving an ok position (of 7 years), if I'm not a good fit in the new role (if I get it), then in three months I'll have no job. The market is flat so there's an element of risk. as always.

My initial reaction is, if the tests say I'm a bad fit, fine, don't hire me.
Another part wants to know if I can do the job by trying.
Profiling is about probabilities, and unless it's 100% accurate, there's a chance they can be wrong.

~ Matt

 

[Mattt]

Theoretically speaking, I wouldn't mind lying to people who want to be fooled. In real life, I don't know what I'll do. Just one thing: the other candidates aren't necessarily more honest or deserving of the job or whatever. It's likely that many of them will be, if not incompetent, no better or worse than yourself.

Also, if you read what I just said, you'll notice I'm not giving away anything useful. I do know it's true that for some (many?) people in business, introversion= phail. So... here's my guess: your chances are bad, or at least not as good as those of some of the other candidates. Any impressive credentials?

Apparently they have been looking for a suitable candidate for months.
None of my questions really revealed why it's taken so long.
According to the agent, they asked to setup an interview withing 30mins of seeing my CV. So I'd say they saw something they like. The font perhaps.

Well see. I didn't hear back from them either way yet.

Ho hum, hate waiting.

~ Matt

 

[NoID10ts]

You never know what they are looking for. Years ago I applied for a security guard position and I played with the psyche test a little to make myself seem more extroverted and pro active. I figured they would want a take charge kind of person and I desperatley needed a job. Little didI realize, I totally messed myself up. I was turned down because I seemed to extroverted on the psyche test! It was a very solitary job and they were looking for people who could work with little to no human contact (MY DREAM JOB )! I found out then, that it's best to just be honest and let the chips fall where they may. If you are not suitable for the job you will be miserable. Especially if you end up having to work constantly with coworkers/customers.

 

[Mattt]

Heard back today, they want to proceed with testing.
I'm pleased.

 

[Aphasia]

Paradox: if I lie about being honest, that's dishonest, so I didn't lie.

It isn't a paradox. Lying about being honest is not the truth, so you're dishonest. Anyway, good luck.

 

[Mattt]

Argh. I just did a few online practice tests. I don't think I like them.

To what extent are the following statements true of you.
1 means 'not very much at all', 4 means 'average', 7 means 'a lot like me'.
I often catch myself day dreaming
all the time, is day dreaming bad? not in my books, daydreams are visualisations, exploring.

I always plan carefully
In my own way I plan. I work out a whole load of possible outcomes and work towards favorable ones.

I dislike conflict at work
Does anyone like conflict?
What do they mean by conflict?

I am driven by achieving goals
Briefly.

I'm kinda of stressing that I will be paralysed by thinking about the questions.

 

[Decaf]

Trust your instincts. When in doubt be honest. When you're worried that being honest might be seen as bad, be noncommital.

There are some tests that are REALLY hard to fake without totally screwing up, but you'll know them when you see them. If you see them, be honest because in my experience, those are the best kind and are likely to reflect well on you (they were probably created by INTPs).

Honestly as much as talk about getting it perfect I wouldn't worry about it too much. The conditions you mentioned before make me think that you have a large advantage running into this and will likely get the job (many managers ignore the psych test results if they like the applicant. I had a few managers do that to me when I strongly discouraged hiring).

 

[grrreg]

altho i'm a constant day dreamer, and i think that's pretty typical for introverted types, "other people" see that as being unfocused and unaware about what's going on around them ...
i would tend towards not often for test purposes, you will have to manage a team after all...it will be your job to make sure other people aren't daydreaming on the job

"always" anything is dead give away to go to the average score...no one does anything Always...they will call you a liar if you say 'me to a tee' on that question

you dislike conflict but as manager YOU WILL HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT...so yes, you are inclined not to like it but not shy away from it either

you are driven my acheiving goals, of course you are...acheiving goals = paycheck

that's my interpretation of things anyhow, good luck!

 

[Mattt]

Well, the 4.5 hours of testing turned our to be quite enjoyable.
The 2nd and third interviews went well too, I accepted the role today.

Some of the test questions were so blatant, I been thinking about them quite a bit, I can't quite work out who answers 'yes' to any of the following?

Do you wake other people up because you have nightmares?
Do you have severe headaches in once side of your head?
Do you often dream about taking revenge?
Is stealing sometimes OK?

Anyway, I just picked middle of the road answers for anything weird and let a few peeks through for colour.

I'm curious to see the report, which apparently I get when I start in a month.

Anyway, thank for all the input, I'm feeling pretty good.

..though, leaving a 7 year job for 6 months on probation with a weeks notice is kinda stressful. Guess I'll just have to step up.
Life without risk is not living, anyway.

~ Matt

 

[Leafknight]

Good luck with that Mattt.

As for psyche testing, I think this is a perfect example of how many of the other personality types make illogical (spurious might be a better word) assumptions about how to use such a device.

As several INTP's pointed out in this very thread, WORDS can have multiple meanings, many highly dependent on context...context that a black and white device like these tests do not provide.

The "it is ok to steal sometimes" comes to mind. I can only imagine that the ESFP's (got to pick on them ) who applied this test to hiring are probably looking for something obvious like, "Well, if they put down yes it's ok to steal sometimes that means they might steal from US sometime so no way should we hire them, they're dishonest!"

I grant that might not be their thought process but I'm guessing it's somewhere thereabouts. Here endeth the concession.

So as an INTP, I read the statement, "it is ok to steal sometimes" and think of oh roughly a googleplex of potential situations where it would be not only "ok" but possibly absolutely necessary even moral/ethical!

Example 1 (of a googleplex): you are taken prisoner by The Taliban. During your interrogation, the guard is momentarily distracted. You have the opportunity to steal the key to your cell which he left on the table (or a gun or a cell phone or whatever). I would argue that such a theft would be justified on many levels (survival, patriotic, preventing harm to others, etc.) so for ME, as an INTP, the answer to that question is an OBVIOUS "yes."

Of course, that answer could lose me the job because of the the spurious (I love that word ) choice of the person giving the test...

 

[Mattt]

Good luck with that Mattt.

So as an INTP, I read the statement, "it is ok to steal sometimes" and think of oh roughly a googleplex of potential situations where it would be not only "ok" but possibly absolutely necessary even moral/ethical!

Example 1 (of a googleplex): you are taken prisoner by The Taliban. During your interrogation, the guard is momentarily distracted. You have the opportunity to steal the key to your cell which he left on the table (or a gun or a cell phone or whatever). I would argue that such a theft would be justified on many levels (survival, patriotic, preventing harm to others, etc.) so for ME, as an INTP, the answer to that question is an OBVIOUS "yes."

Of course, that answer could lose me the job because of the the spurious (I love that word ) choice of the person giving the test...

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they just want to manage risk.
They don't want to employ people suffering from stress, thieves, violent types, and such.

 

[Aphasia]

But the intent behind that type of question is kinda... obvious, right? Who will honestly answer that they say stealing can be acceptable in an interview? ... actually, I think I might do that... yay to dumb honesty. =.="

 

[Vrecknidj]

Congrats Mattt.

Now, onto the diversion.

One of my hangups about those tests (though I enjoy taking them, usually, despite how weird many of the questions are), is that I have this nagging question plaguing me when I'm subjecting myself to them. "Do I really want to work for a company that utilizes these things as a means for determining who should be an employee?"

Dave

 

[Decaf]

Yeah... I am a little frustrated by that feeling even though I make money doing it. I rationalize it as I use the tests to figure out whether the person applying is likely to enjoy their job. Employers want to know that too and employees often have far less of an idea as to whether or not the job is for them. I've had several people I've approved start working and leave a couple months later. Ideally I want to write a new test (one that allows me to test the employer too) and match environments so that an INTP doesn't get a job in a rule-centric, bottom-line-oriented, overtime-demanding job. They won't be happy and the company that hired them will just have to go through the whole process all over again. Then again, some people ARE happy in jobs like that (though not as negative sounding as I made it seem) and they shouldn't be stuck in open-ended, fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants kinda companies or they'll quit and they'll have to try to fill the position again.

<sigh> its a field in need of work.

 

[Jesin]

<sigh> its a field in need of work.

Just like everything else.