Second Function Guides Our First?

[dark]

This is in no way to bash INFJs, I am merely trying to understand so I had to describe my negative experiences here, I can also describe my many positive experiences if you wish, to be honest, I've had more positive experiences with INFJs than any other type thus far. If I wanted to bash any type, I would have started with SPs... my family is full of them sadly enough. I am only writing this so the thread doesn't become an entire thing of people attacking me for asking why the people I've met act this way, this is not a defense for myself, but for the thread since I am actually curious. Remember, I don't know you, so if you happen to be an INFJ, I am not saying this is you, only the various people I have came into contact with, unless of course I have actually met you then not my problem.

I have started to not trust INFJs anymore in real life. Both INTJ and INFJ use Ni, but the INFJ will tell the person what they believe they want to hear. According to all my INFJ friends, I can pretty much conclude I am a god. And since I know that is false, I can no longer trust their comments on things. My INTJ friends on the other hand do not act that way, they could care less how their words affect me, so I have began to trust them over the INFJs.

I now know that if my INTJ friend tells me something and my INFJ friend says the opposite (which has a 100% chance of being positive...) I will trust the INTJs word.

My question is, since both are running on Ni, does their auxiliary function have that much control over them in external situations? I know Fe is use to please others, but wow, that creates a shit load of complications and possibly too many lies.

I've dated three INFJ females so far. The way they say things makes me feel they are lying. They eventually complain that I would over-exaggerate things (which I am sure was a 10% chance to happen, though I always said if I was exaggerating before I spoke or in the act of doing so) when I start to talk about ideas or whatever and they "disagree" with what I said even though I have logical reason to have said it. So most of my exaggerations occur for humorous reasons to make a long drawn out background on an idea more desirable.

My INTJ friend has never exaggerated on anything. If I send her something, if she likes it she will tell me that she liked it, nothing more, if she didn't like it, she won't speak of it, so I get the clue that she didn't like it. On the other hand, if I send the same thing to my INFJ friend(s) they always say how awesome it is, even if I know myself how shitty it is. I purposely sent some shit writing to one INFJ and they went on for 5 minutes about how great it was, I didn't trust them for about a week.

So why (at least in my case of the ones I've met) do INFJs do this? I know it isn't their Ni doing it. I am also sure not all INFJs are like this, maybe they are just completely immature in some form or whatever. Though I can see Ni may be part of this since my INTJ friends will hide anything wrong with them because they don't want the attention of others, though that just may be the fact that they are introverted.

 

[katkeyron]

Short answer:
Te/Fe will usually come across "louder" than Ni does. They can be Ni-ing all the time and you'll just be hearing TeTeTeFeFeTeFeTeFe!!@@!!%$^&

It's still case-by-case; I can't really go deeper without generalizing. And I don't know these people either, so, I'd only be rehashing and drawing conclusions from what you've given me.

 

[dark]

So if Te and Fe are the loud part that I am seeing from them, is it Fe that I am not trusting? Which is odd because I found myself extremely attracted to Fe dominate females , but that is just because the way they act excites me for now.

 

[terraxceles]

So why (at least in my case of the ones I've met) do INFJs do this? I know it isn't their Ni doing it. I am also sure not all INFJs are like this, maybe they are just completely immature in some form or whatever. Though I can see Ni may be part of this since my INTJ friends will hide anything wrong with them because they don't want the attention of others, though that just may be the fact that they are introverted.

Well, they might think if they come on too harshly, they might be squandering your potential to achieve and progress further within the field. There are many people who are highly sensitive to criticism and tend to shut down or give up when their flaws are pointed out to them. So perhaps, it seems outlandish to you because you are not similarly sensitive to criticism, but it becomes common etiquette for the INFJ to be as encouraging and inspirational as possible so the person would feel capable of doing better.

I'm not sure why you would label this behavior as immature at all.

Also, Ni>Fe is different from Fe>Ni, so they are not similar in terms of how they come across. The former's emphasis is on recognition of potential, the latter's emphasis is on ethical correctness. The closest that comes to Ni>Fe is probably Ne>Fi.

 

[dark]

Well in my psychology book in my human potential class last semester, "I didn't know I had a choice," it states somewhere that you are only hindering potential if you accept another for all that they are. [It is something like this, I don't have the book on me right now, left it at home, so I can type the exact quote in a couple weeks when I decide to go home.]

What I got out of that was, we should accept people for their potential, not for who they currently are. So the whole comforting me all the time started to become an insult and the book helped me to understand why I felt that way.

All my friends I always tell them to tell me the truth on things because their words have a 99% chance to not hurt me, I have told them that I would only be offended or hurt if I suspected they were being sensitive or lying in a manner to not cause me harm, if they were blunt and truthful and it "seems" harsh to sensitive people, I usually gain respect for that person. Which is why currently the friend that I have the most respect for is an INTJ.

 

[Meer]

Maybe they are very insecure or have a much lower standard of awesomeness than you do?

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

They probably don't know what they think of it.

They probably think to themselves "if I was the on asking for the other's advice, what would I want them to say to me?". They would want the support, and may be crippled by criticism. There is a degree of immaturity in that they haven't realised that it is better to be honest.

on the thread title: I believe the second and third functions provide a web of relations in a sense which the first function works with. It's the dominant (and at times the inferior) which are actively "used", but they get their information on how they should be used from the centre pair.

 

[scorpiomover]

I have a sister who acts similarly. I personally believe she is INFJ, for other reasons that are displayed in her behaviour. So I can see what you mean about INFJ encouragement.

It goes like this: Ni is NOT Ne. Ne is making theories about the EXTERNAL world. Ni is making theories about your INNER world, the world of your personal experiences, your ideas, the way you want the world to be.

Fe is like Te. Te is putting your rational planning into the EXTERNAL world. Fe is putting your EMOTIONAL planning into the external world.

So Ni>Te is basically, going into your imaginary dreamworld, making theories that are based on your personal experiences, views and values, and then applying them to real life.

Ni>Fe is very similar, in that they also come up with theories based on their personal experiences, and then use emotions to manipulate the situation into what they believe, according to their theory, will achieve their desired result.

Your INFJ friends want the best for you. They want you to be a success. Your INFJ girlfriends knew that the more successful you would be, the more it would help them, as couples generally share the benefits of success. They probably knew that you are the sort that would share your success, which would mean it was practically guaranteed that what made you more of a success, would definitely help them out.

They could probably see that as an INTP, you could use your brain to be an amazingly successful person, if you put your mind to it. But, being an INTP, you probably showed and told them that you started a lot of things that would have been a great success, but you never finished them. They thus saw that you are holding yourself back. They thus wanted to manipulate you into becoming the sort of person who would fulfil your awesome INTP potential.

They probably also feel that they are holding themselves back. As INFJ, they probably feel that they need a lot of emotional support and encouragement to believe in themselves, and that this is what they need to really steam ahead, and they just don't get it. 10-to-1, they had a very unsupportive childhood. This is their Ni theory, that people who have great potential, but are not fulfilling it, is all because of a lack of emotional support and encouragement.

They see this theory would potentially apply to you. So they apply their Ni theory, using Fe. They give you lots and lots of emotional encouragement and support. They tell you that you can do ANYTHING. According to their theory, their expectation is that you will then believe in yourself, and will thus steam ahead, and fulfil your awesome INTP potential.

To be honest, you probably somewhat invite this, because you also see your own potential, and struggle to understand why you do not fulfil it. I suspect that is part of why you are so attracted to INFJs.

When they initially gave you a lot of encouragement, you probably did feel like it was true. You applied Ti>Ne. Why would they say it, if it was just to make you feel better? How could feelings possibly produce any change in behaviour? Ergo, it must be that they are only saying it, because it is true, and you simply are not yet seeing it yourself, because you are under-estimating your true capability.

Then you tried it, and found that it didn't work as you expected. Things went wrong anyway. You then again applied Ti>Ne. It didn't work. Ergo, it must be a false theory. This encouragement just got you all excited, and that only made you feel even more disappointed about life than you normally do.

You prefer the statements of your INTJ friends, because they are not building you up. They just use Ni>Te. It's more like what you have, NT-thinking. So it is something that you can translate into your way of thinking. Plus, it's not touchy-feely. So as an NT, it seems more objective to you.

I CAN apply Ti>Ne, to you, to explain to you why you have to be a LOT more careful about what INTJs say to you, why INFJ encouragement didn't work on you, how to make it work for you. But I think that would be making prescriptive statements, and I don't want to lead you down a path, unless I have some validation that it's the right one. I would rather you read what I wrote, evaluate it for yourself, and then, only if you think that I am on the right track, then we can go further with the prescriptive predictions.