INTP terrible at algebra

[420MuNkEy]

I love algebra. I found it amazingly fun to try to use it to find and explain patterns. I often just tuned out the teacher and made page after page of very odd equations (like I remember trying to mathematically explain Pi and prime numbers). There's a lot of depth too it if you just seek it.

Geometry on the other hand, bored the living piss out of me. I wasn't a fan of drawing and measuring just to do math. To me, math is all in the numbers.

 

[Eloise]

I am in Algebra right now; 8th grade. Yes, I know I'm young! The first quater I failed because he refused to explain why the formulas worked. He'd tell me I had the most brilliant questions but that the county didn't allow him to explain. We also have to learn stupid stuff that the county deems necessary, that even my math teacher deemed pointless. However this quater it just clicked and while I still feel I suck at Math, I have the highest grades in my year. I do lose points for not working stuff out the way I'm supposed too.

 

[Trebuchet]

...he refused to explain why the formulas worked. He'd tell me I had the most brilliant questions but that the county didn't allow him to explain.

That's terrible. You have my sympathy; I've been there. Please believe me that the classes and academic experience get better over time. Don't give up on math. If you can make it to calculus by the end of high school, it makes college that much better. (I certainly hope you go to college, given that you are clearly bright and able to be unconventional.)

As for sucking at math, you almost certainly don't. Asking brilliant questions is much harder than doing worksheets, and rarer. It is pretty clear your county sucks at math, though.

 

[Toad]

I started tutoring my nephew in Algebra. As I started reading his textbook, everything made sense! I guess I always understood it, but was just never really into it because I never could apply it to anything I was doing. But now as I was teaching him, it actually was kind of fun.

Math rocks

 

[Darby]

In 8th I took Pre-algebra because I didn't know how to multiply decimals or fractions, so i spent the entire year learning to do that, while helping all of my friends pass pre-algebra

then as a freshman, they put us all in algebra 1, and told us "if you think you can get in, take a placement test." I took it as "we already put you where you should be, if you have a big head, try to get into Geometry. I aced Algebra 1 and I spent most of the class sleeping.

sophomore year I started in geometry, and after 6 weeks of not doing homework, they asked what the problem was and i told them it was stupid, so they put me in algebra 2, and I took both classes simultaneously.

last year, I took pre-calc, I spent the entire year hating the teacher, because he couldn't teach, he just threw problems on the board and said "solve them" which I could do fine, but almost his entire class was failing and he didn't seem to realize that something might be wrong.

This year, I have calculus with the same teacher, I spend most of my time correcting him, or explaining it to the rest of the class for him, and wishing there was somewhere to go from here, that I could take during all this, and it would be nice if he would give us real world ways to use this stuff, but i guess figuring this out on my own is the best way.

I am currently trying to get one of our schools alumni(who just finished majoring in mathmatics) to give me supplemental calculus lessons on tuesdays, but curently it's just a hope.

You could say I love math, but really, I just enjoy learning, and I'm "good" at math so it's an easy choice to keep going higher. I also enjoy physics, and have always been interested, but physics at my school is senior year, so we just started. after giving up on trying to add gravitational force to a problem involving the pushing of blocks horizontally on a frictionless surface I started to do really well.

 

[snowqueen]

I was and always have been terrible at maths - because I am dyscalculic so I mix up numbers and functions and don't see it. Strangely I was brilliant at algebra and I think this is because it involved letters too. I've always understood maths concepts and can do maths with a calculator now (I went to school pre-calculators!). Being good at algebra meant I did really well in chemistry too.

 

[Toad]

I think most high school math teachers (or teachers in general) have lost the passion of teaching. Very sad...

 

[fullerene]

I am in Algebra right now; 8th grade. Yes, I know I'm young! The first quater I failed because he refused to explain why the formulas worked. He'd tell me I had the most brilliant questions but that the county didn't allow him to explain. We also have to learn stupid stuff that the county deems necessary, that even my math teacher deemed pointless. However this quater it just clicked and while I still feel I suck at Math, I have the highest grades in my year. I do lose points for not working stuff out the way I'm supposed too.

If you ever want someone to try to explain the formulas, I probably could. It's been a long time since I've taken algebra, so no promises, but I'd help try to fill in the gaps if you still want to know.

 

[Nicholas A. A. E.]

You could say I love math, but really, I just enjoy learning, and I'm "good" at math so it's an easy choice to keep going higher. I also enjoy physics, and have always been interested, but physics at my school is senior year, so we just started.

I might as well be quoting myself because this is exactly where I'm at.

after giving up on trying to add gravitational force to a problem involving the pushing of blocks horizontally on a frictionless surface I started to do really well.

I've considered this type of problem very carefully and would be happy to explain to you anytime.

 

[Jaico]

I found algebra boring in junior high and high school, but when I got to university (and calculus) I loved it. We weren't told any one specific way to do it, so solving problems became puzzles where I could just play around with ideas until I found the answer...there were always multiple ways to do a problem, and finding my own was what made it enjoyable. There was also a lot of algebra in a physical chemistry course I took; although not as in-depth, I remember feeling great after solving a problem on the final that involved creative algebra. Sadly, I'm not such a fan of geometry...

 

[Darby]

I've considered this type of problem very carefully and would be happy to explain to you anytime.

thanks, but i got it, after I failed the quiz I got it immediately, i felt like such an idiot

 

[Thoughtful]

I think to a certain extent we INTPs do think in algebra, or more appropriately, in formulas (x^2+a+c=0 and so forth) which is why it can be so troubling to learn. It's something we can be inherently good at if given time resources, and enough enthusiasm to explore it, but to a certain extent we have to discover it ourselves. Linear learning taught in many classes dosn't do it for a lot of us. Formula problems were easily the easiest problems for me, though visual problems, such as geometry were also really easy to wrap my head around. I think this may in part be due to the fact that I'm a visual learner; I think in picture, so the easier it is for me to imagine what the problem "looks like" the easier it is for me to solve it.

It really depends on how you learn it though. If you get stuck in the wrong class, it can kill your enthusiasm for it. and you all know what happens when an INTP loses enthusiasm for something.

 

[Eloise]

That's terrible. You have my sympathy; I've been there. Please believe me that the classes and academic experience get better over time. Don't give up on math. If you can make it to calculus by the end of high school, it makes college that much better. (I certainly hope you go to college, given that you are clearly bright and able to be unconventional.)

As for sucking at math, you almost certainly don't. Asking brilliant questions is much harder than doing worksheets, and rarer. It is pretty clear your county sucks at math, though.

Hope I didn't stuff up the quoting. Thank you very much, Next time I have a question I know who I'll consult. Everybody always tells me that college is much better-guess I'll just have to wait out the 1664 days till I graduate from high school. I think my biggest problem with Algebra is that we do such much repititive work that I get bored, tune out and then miss crucial information.

 

[Trebuchet]

I think my biggest problem with Algebra is that we do such much repititive work that I get bored, tune out and then miss crucial information.

Yes, that will do it. I can't think how many people I know who had exactly that problem. I know my husband used to tune out the boring parts in junior high and high school, and he got terrible grades. Now he has advanced degrees in Applied Mathematics and Industrial Engineering. Grades don't tell the story. And anyway, higher math is a lot less boring.

Your main risk right now is that the powers-that-be will consider you poor at math rather than realizing you are bored, and put you in even more boring classes. Maybe your counselor could help you set up an independent study program of some kind, if you explain the situation. If not, well, it's only 1664 days.

 

[Darby]

luckily, I don't have the problem of appearing bad at math, they all know that I am good, but don't apply myself, and last year I finished my required 4 years(since I took geometry and Algebra 2 together), and because of my teacher I was really tempted to stop, but one of the alumni, I mentioned him before assured me that it DOES get more interesting. And I have learned to take joy in correcting the teacher so all of my peers can get a good laugh(almost everyone hates him)

I also would like to thank Thoughtful, because he made a good point, I don't know if i would say that I think in algebra(although it does appear to come pretty naturally for the most part), but I do think visually, and that in itself makes it so much easier, because then, worst case if i dont understand, I plug in a few numbers and graph it, and it makes sense

EDIT: today in my ethics class, we read an excerpt from the book Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell, which talks about how people who are willing to take the time to work out the problem, and have persistence, will beat out someone who is considered a "genius" (as long as time isn't a factor), I was just wondering how people felt about that. specifically because I feel that individually we don't actually have that much time, so what good does this information do us?

 

[The Lurker]

I've always liked algebra and I've been way better at it than geometry, which I hate with a burning passion. It's as if there's some sort of mental block that keeps me from understanding the finer concepts of geometry while algebra just sort of comes naturally to me.

 

[420MuNkEy]

I've always liked algebra and I've been way better at it than geometry, which I hate with a burning passion. It's as if there's some sort of mental block that keeps me from understanding the finer concepts of geometry while algebra just sort of comes naturally to me.

I'm like this too. I hate dealing with shapes and having to visualize something when it's not really relevant to how one would go about solving something. Geometry is just applying measurements from shapes and putting them in some kind of formula. I could care less about measuring or how it's applied to shapes, the numbers are all that matters.

 

[Eloise]

It is very easy for me to slip through the system as I move every year or so. They do not know how good or bad I truly am at mathematics. Math is my worst subject, for me history is beyond easy... My History teacher and I have a deal, I stimulate discussion occasionally in class and help other students sporadically and in return I can read and ignore her in class assuming that I continue to get perfect test scores. So much fun, 50 minutes of free reading during school is like a dream come true and makes the day bearable!

 

[fullerene]

people who are willing to take the time to work out the problem, and have persistence, will beat out someone who is considered a "genius" (as long as time isn't a factor), I was just wondering how people felt about that.

I found that to be somewhat-bullshit. Aside from what you said, with the fact that nobody has infinite time, there still remains the fact that there are quite a lot of very smart people (/geniuses) who still work hard at a problem. Even if a smart, hard worker can beat out a genius given enough time, unsolved problems today require a lot of time from the geniuses too. Underneath the cutting-edge, all your problem solving is done in businesses and things... which, unfortunately, do care how much time you take to solve a problem, since they want to make their money.

 

[Tyria]

I had the most trouble dealing with exponents, logs, natural logs, and dealing with equations that had unknowns in both the numerator and denominator. More than anything, having to isolate expressions used to always trip me up.

That and having to move things from one side of the equation to the other... math rules are not my strong point (intuition and repetition are/were my primary tools to get through math).

I have respect for people that can not only do math, but to teach it in a way that makes sense. That is probably more difficult to do than anything I can think of at the moment.

 

[420MuNkEy]

I had the most trouble dealing with exponents, logs, natural logs, and dealing with equations that had unknowns in both the numerator and denominator. More than anything, having to isolate expressions used to always trip me up.

That and having to move things from one side of the equation to the other... math rules are not my strong point (intuition and repetition are/were my primary tools to get through math).

I have respect for people that can not only do math, but to teach it in a way that makes sense. That is probably more difficult to do than anything I can think of at the moment.

A good thing to remember is that an equation can be played with relentlessly, as long as you keep it equal.
For example (just made up a random equation):
(x/y)+32*16=18y
is the same as
(x+y*512)/y=18y
and the same as
x=18y²-512y

It's only a matter of how much you play with it

 

[Nicholas A. A. E.]

In my high school, we used an "Integrated" curriculum, which is just another name for New Math. It was a ridiculous unstructured waste of time. we would relearn the same material every so often, spending ages on review. It's called the "spiral method" or something.

 

[Murphy1d]

I don't know bout Algebra, but it wasn't until last week (20 years after taking geometry) did I finally make a lasting connection to the formula for the area of a triangle. Since the formula is 1/2 base X height I never could remember it (it never clicked).

Then I saw someone explain the formula by showing a 90 degree isosceles triangle and I realized that it is just a square cut in half diagonally. And what is the formula for the area of a square? Base X height.

For me this is a great example of how people learn differently.

 

[morricone]

A good thing to remember is that an equation can be played with relentlessly, as long as you keep it equal.
For example (just made up a random equation):
(x/y)+32*16=18y
is the same as
(x+y*512)/y=18y
and the same as
x=18y²-512y

It's only a matter of how much you play with it

Actually you have to keep it equivalent not just equal. Yeah, university math makes you a nitpicker.

 

[Andrew18651]

Is anyone else here terrible at algebra? I hated it. I could to it but man I hated it with a passion. Just wasn't exciting I guess, not imaginative I dunno, maybe my teachers were bad because I know some mathematics are pretty interesting.

Anyway I thought I'd ask because once I found out I was INTP I kinda wondered why I hated math. I expected an INTP to be into that kind of thing.

Do you know your ennegram or however you spell that? I hear that INTPs that are 5w4 ( me) tend to be less into science and math and more in art, philosophy, etc.

 

[Darby]

Do you know your ennegram or however you spell that? I hear that INTPs that are 5w4 ( me) tend to be less into science and math and more in art, philosophy, etc.

interesting, I did the enneagram, and I got 5 and 4 tied, and 9 as my #2, and I generally love math(to an extent)

 

[Trebuchet]

What is an enneagram? Where did you take this test?

 

[Andrew18651]

What is an enneagram? Where did you take this test?

It's a personality type thingy. Most intps tend to be either 5w4 or 5w6. Just type it in google and hit the first thing that comes up. On the site it'll explain what the numbers mean.

 

[420MuNkEy]

Actually you have to keep it equivalent not just equal. Yeah, university math makes you a nitpicker.

Equal means equivalent, no?

 

[Darby]

1. equal: being the same, or effectively the same, in effect, value, or meaning as something and usually interchangeable with it

That's equivalent to the amount of energy needed to power a single light bulb.

2. mathematics of same size but different shape: describes geometric figures that have different shapes but equal areas, e.g. a circle and a square, or equal volumes, e.g. a cylinder and a cube

3. mathematics logic in equivalence relation: describes members of a set that are in a reflexive, symmetrical, and transitive relation with each other

4. mathematics with same solution: describes equations that share a common solution or solutions, e.g. for both 2x-3 = x+2 and x-5 = 0 the solution is x = 5

what I'm getting out of this though is that if you keep it equal it automatically keeps it equivalent, but if you keep it equivalent it doesn't make it equal

 

[snowqueen]

EDIT: today in my ethics class, we read an excerpt from the book Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell, which talks about how people who are willing to take the time to work out the problem, and have persistence, will beat out someone who is considered a "genius" (as long as time isn't a factor), I was just wondering how people felt about that. specifically because I feel that individually we don't actually have that much time, so what good does this information do us?

I posted about this research somewhere else - it's all to with believing that you will be able to do something if you work at it versus feeling that to do something you have to be 'smart' (so if you find something hard it's because you're not smart enough so you give up). It's useful because if you're someone who gives up or doesn't work, you can challenge yourself and begin to learn to work at a problem.

 

[morricone]

<=> means equivalent
</=> means not equivalent
You do (and for every <=> you forget you get one point minus ):

(x/y)+32*16=18y
<=>
(x+y*512)/y=18y
</=> because now you can set y := 0
x=18y²-512y

Basically equivalent works on meaning of something, e.g.:
2=5 <=> All numbers are prime
is true

This is more important if you want to prove something.

 

[crashman]

If u dislike math language(counting) than what language u speaking(communication), it means u are stupid and fear of getting mistakes! make use of the brackets in math, it make u see clearly and its FREE!

 

[420MuNkEy]

If u dislike math language(counting) than what language u speaking(communication), it means u are stupid and fear of getting mistakes! make use of the brackets in math, it make u see clearly and its FREE!

Ummm, what? Obviously english isn't your primary language, but it's really unclear what you are trying to say.

 

[fullerene]

(x/y)+32*16=18y
<=>
(x+y*512)/y=18y
</=> because now you can set y := 0
x=18y²-512y

You beat me to it... I was gonna say, what this person said is false, and only true if you remember that it's x = 18*y^2 - 512*y, excluding the point x=y=0.

 

[amorfati]

I hated algebra too. The only aspect of math that I liked when I was in school was converting fractions into percentages and vice versa, because I was so damn good at it.

 

[Eef]

I'm a dyscalculia positive. Meaning, not much of a mathematician. I love Science, though. We have Anatomy and it's fun. I find it interesting really. However, I'm not studying much of it (resulting in low marks but still passing ones on tests, quizzes, etc) because it happens to be not our major. So yeah, lacking there.

 

[Words]

i hate math but algebra was the easiest, (cept for P.E. and lunch) for me. wish i went into culinary...eat away..