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Internet Explorer is Not Free : You have to buy an OS along with it.

Claverhouse

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Searching for the meaning of... user-agents, and the insane number of bots diligently reading these, and all other forums, I glanced at Bots vs Browsers, a useful site which has so far identified 370,282 user-agents, and then went on to question the purpose of them being so deceptive. Not the bots, that is to be expected; but the browser agents.

One might assume that Internet Explorer pretends to be Mozilla from very shame, and that it deliberately seeks to allow it's weak-minded users to pose as using better browsers --- in the same way as those amusing stickers on tin-can cars 'My Other Browser's A Porsche'; but that is only part of the answer.


From WebAIM, last year Mr. Aaron Andersen presented a History of the browser user-agent string.



In the beginning there was NCSA Mosaic, and Mosaic called itself NCSA_Mosaic/2.0 (Windows 3.1), and Mosaic displayed pictures along with text, and there was much rejoicing.

And behold, then came a new web browser known as “Mozilla”, being short for “Mosaic Killer,” but Mosaic was not amused, so the public name was changed to Netscape, and Netscape called itself Mozilla/1.0 (Win3.1), and there was more rejoicing. And Netscape supported frames, and frames became popular among the people, but Mosaic did not support frames, and so came “user agent sniffing” and to “Mozilla” webmasters sent frames, but to other browsers they sent not frames.

And Netscape said, let us make fun of Microsoft and refer to Windows as “poorly debugged device drivers,” and Microsoft was angry. And so Microsoft made their own web browser, which they called Internet Explorer, hoping for it to be a “Netscape Killer”. And Internet Explorer supported frames, and yet was not Mozilla, and so was not given frames. And Microsoft grew impatient, and did not wish to wait for webmasters to learn of IE and begin to send it frames, and so Internet Explorer declared that it was “Mozilla compatible” and began to impersonate Netscape, and called itself Mozilla/1.22 (compatible; MSIE 2.0; Windows 95), and Internet Explorer received frames, and all of Microsoft was happy, but webmasters were confused.

And Microsoft sold IE with Windows, and made it better than Netscape, and the first browser war raged upon the face of the land. And behold, Netscape was killed, and there was much rejoicing at Microsoft. But Netscape was reborn as Mozilla, and Mozilla built Gecko, and called itself Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826, and Gecko was the rendering engine, and Gecko was good. And Mozilla became Firefox, and called itself Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041108 Firefox/1.0, and Firefox was very good. And Gecko began to multiply, and other browsers were born that used its code, and they called themselves Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040825 Camino/0.8.1 the one, and Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.1.8) Gecko/20071008 SeaMonkey/1.0 another, each pretending to be Mozilla, and all of them powered by Gecko.

And Gecko was good, and IE was not, and sniffing was reborn, and Gecko was given good web code, and other browsers were not. And the followers of Linux were much sorrowed, because they had built Konqueror, whose engine was KHTML, which they thought was as good as Gecko, but it was not Gecko, and so was not given the good pages, and so Konquerer began to pretend to be “like Gecko” to get the good pages, and called itself Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Konqueror/3.2; FreeBSD) (KHTML, like Gecko) and there was much confusion.

Then cometh Opera and said, “surely we should allow our users to decide which browser we should impersonate,” and so Opera created a menu item, and Opera called itself Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; en) Opera 9.51, or Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; U; en; rv:1.8.1) Gecko/20061208 Firefox/2.0.0 Opera 9.51, or Opera/9.51 (Windows NT 5.1; U; en) depending on which option the user selected.

And Apple built Safari, and used KHTML, but added many features, and forked the project, and called it WebKit, but wanted pages written for KHTML, and so Safari called itself Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; de-de) AppleWebKit/85.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/85.5, and it got worse.

And Microsoft feared Firefox greatly, and Internet Explorer returned, and called itself Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.0) and it rendered good code, but only if webmasters commanded it to do so.

And then Google built Chrome, and Chrome used Webkit, and it was like Safari, and wanted pages built for Safari, and so pretended to be Safari. And thus Chrome used WebKit, and pretended to be Safari, and WebKit pretended to be KHTML, and KHTML pretended to be Gecko, and all browsers pretended to be Mozilla, and Chrome called itself Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US) AppleWebKit/525.13 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/0.2.149.27 Safari/525.13, and the user agent string was a complete mess, and near useless, and everyone pretended to be everyone else, and confusion abounded.



One of the comments points out the hideous fraud Microsoft pulled on those who created what was to become Internet Explorer:

Microsoft did not make its own web browser. It licensed Mosaic’s code, and reworked it to make it look different from Mosaic. The beauty part: Under the terms of the agreement, Microsoft was to pay Mosaic’s owners a percentage of the income from sales of Internet Explorer. Microsoft knew, of course, that they would be “giving Internet Explorer away for free”, and they did include it with every operating system they have since distributed. Mosaic received no payment. The proud tradition of lying, cheating, and stealing as the foundation of success in the software and IT industries could be said to begin with this swindle.




They really are a vile company.




Claverhouse :phear:
 

Ogion

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Haha. Nice text.
"Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.3) Gecko/20090913 Shiretoko/3.5.3" <-- That's me right now.

Ogion
 

del

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I must admit, I do like the new feature that allows me to silently judge after seeing what OS/browser a poster is using. :phear:
 

Kidege

is a ze
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Yeah, that big question mark allows me to judge you just fine. :p

(I'm using windows and it's not my fault, okay? I tried!)
 

walfin

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I believe Internet Explorer can be run with wine, making it free as in beer.

Websites still hate konqi, forcing me to use shiretoko. It's ironic that more sites work in chrome than konqi.
 

fullerene

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did you really? I thought jesin or wisp or someone was gonna help you get it up and running? Did something else happen?


Anyway, I've heard different things. Apparently, windows did all sorts of horrible things (like the above, as well as writing all their software specifically so that it was designed to take much longer when running on other OS's, and things like that), but Bill Gates paid his workers really well, and (contrary to the stereotype) spread the wealth around quite well.

Apple, on the other hand, was a bit more ethical and didn't sabotage competition or anything, but the CEO (dunno his name. Steve Jobs maybe?) treated his workers fairly poorly, and horded a lot of the money himself. Wisp also informed me that mac specifically designs its computers so that little repair shops can't do anything about them. They have to send the computers away, because special tools that only Apple owns are needed to open up their hardware.

Not to mention, their advertising campaign, along with Pepsi's, manifests the pretty much everything I hate in the US. I think it'd be pretty nice country if the mindset were such that that kind of crap wouldn't sell things.


At least, this is what one of my programing teachers said, once. I haven't actually looked into it myself, because (as you can see) I'm not stuck between the two, and so don't care. It sucks for your average computer user, though.
 

Aiss

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^ Programming teachers are as often biased as any other people who specialize in a narrow field and hold strong opinions. Example: recently in a course about Android programming we've enjoyed half-an-hour rant about why iPhone is evil. I don't own an iPhone and didn't really care one way or the other, but inaccuracy of most of the statements was maddening. I so can't stand it when someone is wrong.

A bit of an OT, but still about browsers, so I hope I'll be forgiven - a question to those who use Windows and Safari: why Safari?
 

Ogion

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Aiss: It could also be that the Page misrecognizes Chrome as Safari.

Btw, in most browsers you can change your User Agent String to other stuff. Like in firefox you can install an addon which lets you manage User Agent Strings and change them on the fly...

Btw, some Useragentstrings are really ridiculous.
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/4.0; SLCC1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; Media Center PC 5.0; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; OfficeLiveConnector.1.4; OfficeLivePatch.1.3; yie8)

Ogion

Oh and edit: The two question marks on teh left of tihs post are there because i just changed my Firefox/Shiretoko-Useragentstring to "Oink" in all fields (as browser name, as OS name etc.) :D
 

Claverhouse

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And sniffing was reborn...

(I'm using windows and it's not my fault, okay? I tried!)


Using windows is permissible; and unavoidable in some cases.

Using IE is the Mark of the Beast.



Claverhouse :phear:
 

Anthile

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I'm a browser misanthrop. I hate all of them because they all have severe flaws. However, I use Opera out of the same reason why I'm for democracy: it causes the least amount of damage.
 

Claverhouse

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Well, democracy's habit of dropping vast amounts of bombs on any country that disagrees with democracy leads to an equality in death...


I use Opera every day for one site. The trouble is it's so damn stupid. It engages it's npviewer even though it's only looking at an image site. Yesterday I had to re-open all closed pages and re-save just because it couldn't even tell me the drive was full and was saving dozens of 0.kb files; and with Fx or other browsers on linux one can designate quick links to folders so that multiple saving of a file is easy, Opera on the other hand sticks to a linear model whereby one must navigate to a new folder for each save.... And whilst it uses less memory than Fx, almost, it uses more CPU.

Worst of all, whilst I had to install a script to centre View Pictures in Fx, which is personal preference; with Opera I had to install a script merely to View Pictures shrunk to screen, which is essential.

Opera is very nice overall, though terribly unattractive, and I use it for that site to avoid overloading the delicate perfection of Fx --- one does not use a Porsche as a milkcart; but Opera is not yet fit for purpose as a general daily browser... One day I believe they will get there. But that could be a decade away, by which time Fx will have reached such levels of awesomeness it will be the default browser of angels in heaven. If it isn't already.






Claverhouse :phear:
 

fullerene

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^ Programming teachers are as often biased as any other people who specialize in a narrow field and hold strong opinions. Example: recently in a course about Android programming we've enjoyed half-an-hour rant about why iPhone is evil. I don't own an iPhone and didn't really care one way or the other, but inaccuracy of most of the statements was maddening. I so can't stand it when someone is wrong.

A bit of an OT, but still about browsers, so I hope I'll be forgiven - a question to those who use Windows and Safari: why Safari?


good to know, thanks. I'm not really a computer person, so I've no idea how accurate they were. He didn't sound rather passionate or anything, though, but more just resigned and bored/depressed about the whole thing. I took those as good signs that he was probably being honest.
 

Felan

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Hmm, from a security perspective IE8 fared better than any of the other browsers in a hacking competition. With IE 8 you also have the option of defaulting all pages to the standards compliant rendering and selectively down-rendering pages with the less standards manner.

The roots of ajax programming were introduced in IE. If not for the xmlhttp stuff we wouldn't have a lot of the powerful user web interface options that are becoming increasingly common.

There are definitely frustrations with variances in web browsers. When I'm working on web pages I put effort into making them compatible with IE 6 - IE8 and Firefox.

From a support and assistance perspective I honestly can say Microsoft is far better than my experiences with other companies. I would say the greatest key to Microsoft's success is how much real value is available to developers, who after all, create the web apps that people use.

To me the evil is the plethora of companies that retort, "Oh well if you want help with that you need to engage custom development and pay $$$$$$, even though you are already paying a million plus dollars for support already." But that's just me. Computers and programming is exciting no matter how/who you slice it.
 

Kidege

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did you really? I thought jesin or wisp or someone was gonna help you get it up and running? Did something else happen?

Yeah, they helped, and Ubuntu's running in dual boot. But the modem never worked, and it's kinda useless to have an internet-less computer.
 
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