In a perfect world...

[INTPINFP]

How many of us would not be INTP's? Most of the reason we have become INTP are because we were made fun of in school, bossed around etc. What if we were born in a perfect egregarian society where none of that happens? Would we still act as an INTP? More importantly, would we be comfortable towards ourselves as anything but INTP?

 

[nickgray]

Huh? I'm perfectly fine with who I am, thank you.

 

[INTPINFP]

What I am saying is would you be an INTP if you were born into different conditions

 

[preilemus]

I was born into a quite normal and successful family, and if everything had gone as planned, i think i would probably be an ENTP. unfortunately they didnt, and thats what most likely lead to my introvertedness. not that I consider it a bad thing, I just dont consider it likely that I would have naturally turned out this way

 

[Yellow]

I am assuming that this is to be almost a nature vs. nurture discussion. If so, either an INTP is shaped by adversity (or a lack thereof), or an INTP meets adversity in a certain INTPish way. I am inclined to think that my personality has more effect on my reactions to circumstances than do my circumstances affect my personality. i.e., I think I would be me, that is, INTP no matter the 'world' I was raised in. If, however, there is a chance that a change in my upbringing or my personal choices would have molded a different 'me', then I am exceedingly grateful for them because I love being me, even (and especially) when my life is difficult.

 

[mfratt]

I guess my perfect self would be an xNTP, where I could modulate at will between introversion and extroversion, but I'd rather not be an SFJ of any sort.

 

[Ermine]

I like being an INTP. I wouldn't trade my personality for the world. What I want is skills. Though I'm content with solitude most of the time, I want more social skills so I can be at ease when I decide to put myself out there. I want the ability to make and keep friends. I also want to be more skilled when it comes to empathy, to have the ability to care about others and their predicaments without knowing them well (this is half the battle when it comes to socialization. I just can't bring myself to care sometimes.). I also want to have the motivation and logistical skills to do everything I want to do. On top of that, I'd be mastering my more innate skills.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

Ideally I would like the be a 50/50 balance of E/I. I like my somewhat balanced T/F. Overall I am more T but that F combined with my Intuition gives me loads of insight and empathy.

I guess I'm trying to say xNxP seems ideal to me, x representing a perfect 50/50 balance.

 

[Kuu]

egregarian?

do you mean gregarian, or egalitarian?

 

[Toad]

Most of the reason we have become INTP are because we were made fun of in school, bossed around etc.

Wtf? You are ignorant, just plain ignorant. We are not INTP's because we were bullied. I was never fcking bullied or made fun of. I want to strangle you so bad. For some reason you give me a bad feeling. You are just a hating spiteful person. Whatever the fuck happened to you, get over it. FFS, we all have our problems. Stop hating everyone and blaming humanity for the way you are. I seriously think you should go get help. Go to a psychologist please. Before you do anything stupid. Go talk to someone...

Ideally I would like the be a 50/50 balance of E/I. I like my somewhat balanced T/F. Overall I am more T but that F combined with my Intuition gives me loads of insight and empathy.

I guess I'm trying to say xNxP seems ideal to me, x representing a perfect 50/50 balance.

I am 50/50 E and I. I am also borderline T and F. It's not really that great...you are not strong in any areas. I rather be strong in one or the other.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

I wouldn't say that INI is ignorant...

but I do think that the MBTI is genetic. There's some evidence of neuron density in the 4 different regions that represent that four skills (NTSF) are correlated with MBTI type. And I see a lot of (anecdotal) evidence when people talk about their family's MBTI. My parents are INTP and INFJ and they produced an INTP and INTJ.

It would also be really sad if the MBTI wasn't genetic. I want to raise iNtuitives when I have children!

However, to respond to INI, I would say that INTPs are very at-risk of being bullied, teased, pushed around, etc. INTPs also don't fit into the school system very well- in the book "please understand me" they suggested that the vast vast majority of elementary teachers were SJ, with a NF minority completing the rest. NT teachers start appearing in high school, but are still a minority to SJs and NFs.

I switched from a private catholic elementary school to a public school in 4th grade. The private catholic school has strict, everyone was polite, and the teachers played a strong social role in resolve arguments and having kids say "sorry" to eachother.

And public school was cruel. All the kids were getting to the point that they were competing and becoming fiesty. Being the new kid, and being shy, and being INTP, I was naturally an outsider. And it sucks, probably stunted me.

INTPs might accrue developmental problems, but that's not the reason that we're INTP. And as an INTP, you have all the tools you need to fix your problems.

 

[Toad]

The part of our personality that is developed or "not developed" through environment is unique to each individual. So we can't say that "bullying" really creates an INTP. Yes, an INTP is more than likely to have social problems, but we would be generalizing too much to say that "bullying" is a major factor in creating a personality type.

 

[A Reasonable Facsimile]

I wouldn't say that INI is ignorant...

but I do think that the MBTI is genetic. There's some evidence of neuron density in the 4 different regions that represent that four skills (NTSF) are correlated with MBTI type. And I see a lot of (anecdotal) evidence when people talk about their family's MBTI. My parents are INTP and INFJ and they produced an INTP and INTJ.

It would also be really sad if the MBTI wasn't genetic. I want to raise iNtuitives when I have children!

However, to respond to INI, I would say that INTPs are very at-risk of being bullied, teased, pushed around, etc. INTPs also don't fit into the school system very well- in the book "please understand me" they suggested that the vast vast majority of elementary teachers were SJ, with a NF minority completing the rest. NT teachers start appearing in high school, but are still a minority to SJs and NFs.

I switched from a private catholic elementary school to a public school in 4th grade. The private catholic school has strict, everyone was polite, and the teachers played a strong social role in resolve arguments and having kids say "sorry" to eachother.

And public school was cruel. All the kids were getting to the point that they were competing and becoming fiesty. Being the new kid, and being shy, and being INTP, I was naturally an outsider. And it sucks, probably stunted me.

INTPs might accrue developmental problems, but that's not the reason that we're INTP. And as an INTP, you have all the tools you need to fix your problems.

Interesting that my father was an ESFP and my mother an ENFP, and they produced an ENTP and an ESFJ (and yes, it is as bad as it sounds, being the only thinker in my family, with the rest of them being almost 100% feeling!). I'm not trying to refute your point or anything, just pointing out a curiosity.

On the topic of this thread, I don't think that being bullied would cause you to become an INTP. At all. I'm an ENTP, and I wasn't treated well through school. Really, ENTPs are just incompatible with the school system (with some exceptions, of course. I was strong in many courses, mostly the ones that required you to think). I spent most of the time in high school making little "challenges" to myself, or "mini-goals". Things like "How offensive can I make an essay/project and still get an A?" or "How many courses can I hand the same project in, and receive separate marks for the same work?". The answers to those two questions, respectively, are:

1) Pretty darn offensive. In Acting Class we were told to translate something from some other medium into a stage production. I wrote a musical about Hitler, who, instead of rising in politics, opened a used bookstore. The main story was Hitler falling in love with a jewish girl and learning how to dance to impress her, all the while getting dating tips from his very Scottish employee (loosely based on Scotty from Star Trek). I told the teacher that it was based on 'Dirty Dancing'. It was called 'Autumn Reign'. We wrote original music and everything, we even choreographed a dance. Though the actual performance didn't go very well, everybody in my group ended up earning an A. So yes, pretty darn offensive.

2) 3 was as far as I got. I handed in a documentary about writing to my English teacher, my Art teacher and my Film teacher. I probably would have tried to do even more if I could have.

Well, I've strayed quite far from the original topic, but that's how a discussion should work, anyways. Needless to say, I turned high school into a game.

Anyways, in a "perfect world", I probably shouldn't have been allowed to do any of that.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

@A Reasonable Facsimile:
Hmmmmm okay, I guess that I could see that ENTPs are even more incompatible with the school system. Cuz, ya know, you have the need to be LOUD and talk and stuff. At least INTPs can just shut off our senses and lock ourselves into our private world.


The Hitler/Jewish girl romance reminds me of a fan-fiction that I ran across. Hermoine and Snape! The justification is that they're both the most interesting characters in the series. Can you say Azkaban-bait?

I contemplated writing a book report for a book that didn't exist, as a way to play a practical joke on my english teacher. I never got around to it... there was no need, b/c I was such an avid reader anyway. It was just easier to summarize a book I had read in my spare time.

 

[INTPINFP]

I wouldn't be making this post if I thought all INTPs were bullied at school. I think it is a possibilty that some were. Again Toad, calling someone ignorant often reflects upon oneself. I think it is pretty obvious where I was going with this topic, obviously I do not think all INTPs were born that way, nor do I think all INTPs became that way due to their environment. Obviously, Toad, if I thought one way or the other, would I make this post? I'm sorry if my choice of words would not be suitable for a courtroom, even so, the word 'most' does not denote 'all'. It was used as a figure of speech, an exaggeration, which you 'dd not catch'.

In highschool I was too fearful of being expelled/being assigned to a physciatric institution than to write such a play. Though, I probably should of thought of high school as game, because I probably would have gotten more out of it that way. Ironically, I was sent to a physcitriatric instutition anyway, some of you may get a laugh from that.

 

[Toad]

I wouldn't be making this post if I thought all INTPs were bullied at school. I think it is a possibilty that some were. Again Toad, calling someone ignorant often reflects upon oneself. I think it is pretty obvious where I was going with this topic, obviously I do not think all INTPs were born that way, nor do I think all INTPs became that way due to their environment. Obviously, Toad, if I thought one way or the other, would I make this post? I'm sorry if my choice of words would not be suitable for a courtroom, even so, the word 'most' does not denote 'all'. It was used as a figure of speech, an exaggeration, which you 'dd not catch'.

In highschool I was too fearful of being expelled/being assigned to a physciatric institution than to write such a play. Though, I probably should of thought of high school as game, because I probably would have gotten more out of it that way. Ironically, I was sent to a physcitriatric instutition anyway, some of you may get a laugh from that.

Your post made no sense at all. It just went in a complete circle. Also, how is claiming someone to be ignorant a reflection of myself? Are you just pulling shit out of your ass? I don't care that you said "most". I'm saying NONE are created by bullying. Being an INTP may be the cause of bulllying, but a personality type does not grow from being bullied. It may be hindered and warped into another type, but never created. I can't believe people tolerate you.

It is not "obvious" to me where you were going with this post. What I got from your OP was that you think being an INTP is caused from social abuse and that INTP is a negative personality type that wouldn't arise if we had not been "bullied". But I'm probably just being ignorant of what you said. Don't worry though, I am getting sick of reading your hateful homophobic posts. This will be the last you will hear from me. You're probably racist too, aren't you?

 

[Cogwulf]

I've always been of the opinion that bullying is about the person being bullied and not the bully. Of course only a minority of people commit the bullying, but only a small number of people are the victims as well.
Everyone gets punched or called names at least once while they're in school, but only certain people get persistently bullied. I was the perfect candidate for being bullied and there were a lot of bullies in my year, but I was never a victim of it. It's because I never showed much of a response to any abuse, the people who get bullied persistently are the people who react badly to abuse, if you don't respond the bullies don't get anything out of it so they leave you alone.

It's my theory that having an INTP personality protected me from bullying, quite the opposite of bullying making it less likely that I would stay an INTP, I think the feeling function is the key to whether or not people become bullied

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

the tortured become the torturers

 

[Cryss Winters]

Interesting that my father was an ESFP and my mother an ENFP, and they produced an ENTP and an ESFJ (and yes, it is as bad as it sounds, being the only thinker in my family, with the rest of them being almost 100% feeling!).

Yeah, I'm with you. INFJ mother, INFJ brother, ENFJ father, ESFJ grandmother, ESFJ aunt. Makes me want to strangle myself with all the forced-feeling I get when I'm made to socialize with them.

 

[INTPINFP]

Also, does being an only child make you an INTP? Again, not saying all INTP's weren't born that way, I am only suggesting some INTP's weren't born INTP. As for me I am not sure if was or not. I don't agree that a personality type is neccesarily permanent.

 

[snowqueen]

I think a poll is in order! [rushes off to create one]

 

[Loki]

I like being an INTP. I wouldn't trade my personality for the world. What I want is skills. Though I'm content with solitude most of the time, I want more social skills so I can be at ease when I decide to put myself out there. I want the ability to make and keep friends. I also want to be more skilled when it comes to empathy, to have the ability to care about others and their predicaments without knowing them well (this is half the battle when it comes to socialization. I just can't bring myself to care sometimes.). I also want to have the motivation and logistical skills to do everything I want to do. On top of that, I'd be mastering my more innate skills.

Thank you for posting this.

Socialization has always been difficult for me as well. I've walked this Earth for over four decades and I have yet to master social skills when confronted with the genuine feelings of others.

 

[aracaris]

How many of us would not be INTP's? Most of the reason we have become INTP are because we were made fun of in school, bossed around etc. What if we were born in a perfect egregarian society where none of that happens? Would we still act as an INTP? More importantly, would we be comfortable towards ourselves as anything but INTP?

I haven't seen any evidence that bullying, being bossed around etc... can cause someone to become an INTP, and I'm pretty skeptical that such is in fact the case. I've seen bullying happen as a response to someone being an introvert, or intellectual etc... but not actually cause those things.
If you were to say bullying can cause someone to become insecure or shy, or to become hostile, or even a bully themselves, now that on the other hand I have seen evidence of.

 

[INTPINFP]

Now, as you may know, I am not sure what personality type I am. I think I was born an introvert, but started to become more extroverted throughout my childhood. Then I snapped back to being an introvert again.

Now, my question is, is it possible to be shy and an extrovert at the same time?

 

[aracaris]

A person whom is shy suffers from being socially insecure, and shyness can become an outright phobia. It is possible for an extrovert to suffer from it, and I bet shyness is even worse for an extrovert than an introvert.
It is quite possible for a person to on one hand long for social interaction, and feel drained and depressed due to the great amount of time they end up spending alone due to their shyness, but to be so insecure about social interactions that they end up working against their own success.

 

[Kassie]

I was bullied twice in the entirety of my school life so far. Once in elementary school when I was the new kid (the boy was full of himself, is now considered a loser by most of our class), and once in middle school. The strange thing was, I didn't do anything to the girl for her to have any reason to bully me. In fact, I was friendly to her and I always grouped with her, her cousin, and my friend. Then she became vengeful out of the blue. However, now she's essentially a suck up and her cousin is a good friend of mine.

I've always been mostly the same, but those two incidents I'm sure killed off what little feeling was in me.

 

[Logician]

In my version of a perfect world we would all be INTPs... not less of us.

not the type of INTP we all are though, the bitterness a apathy shown by us is a product of circumstance in my opinion, however i think it was our INTPness (people were jelous of its massive mental powers[ if you dont know wtf im talking about pronounce INTPness, and what does INT normally stand for]) that caused these circumstances, not the other way around.

instead the type of INTP we all strive to be. you know what im talking about, the highly intelligent figure with ample charisma due to his understanding of people and confidence in himself, and perfect rationality in all circumstances. searching for or knowing the truth in all things (i feal like im not doing a grand job of putting this to words, but i dont know what else to say. still i feal you all know what im talking about to some degree). if society all strived to be this i think things would be alot better

 

[Adymus]

the highly intelligent figure with ample charisma due to his understanding of people and confidence in himself, and perfect rationality in all circumstances.

It's amazing how whether we realize it or not, an INTP always knows that their strongest form will have great use of Fe, and thus aspires to this.

But I'd hate to live in a world without my INFJs, ENTPs, INFPs, INTJs, and all the other N's and a handful of S's.


In response to the topic:

First of all, I disagree that I became INTP in reaction to being bullied and picked on etc. That all came because I was a weird INxx kid, and thus terribly misunderstood by the others. If it was pure nurture and no nature, then I should have been an INFP, because with an ENTP older brother, the NT nitch in the family had already been satisfied, and I should have filled in the Feeling gap (I was actually pretty damn emotional as a Kid... Somewhere along the line it turned into cold rationality.)

What makes you think the world was meant to be different from this though? Is it really neccesary to have more INTPs, or more of any other type in the world?
Think about it, what would happen if all humans were INTJs for instance? Everyone would have there own vision of how things should be run, there would be very little agreement, and certainly even less willingness to follow other people. A world of all SJs would be organized, but would eventually either die out do to lack of willingness to adapt to new situations, or it would remain a very small human population do to uninventiveness (No offense any SJs reading this.)
But it seems that we all fit together quite well, like pieces of a puzzle, and there is a good reason we and other Ns are so few in number:

We can accomplish the same amount or even more in smaller numbers.

INxx's are the rarest of all types, and still we have inflenced mankind more than any other types. So is it really neccesary that there be more of us?
Perhaps we already are living in a perfect world, maybe we are just not living in it perfectly?

 

[Logician]

i dont disagree with you outright, like i said its just something i roll around.

and yes... with ample charisma we INTPs would be very very powerful individuals

 

[Ghost1986]

in a perfect world, my MBTI would not be anywhere near the top of the list of things i would change.