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I failed

Ex-User (8886)

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I haven't passed an quantum mechanics exam and failed a year at college. I was trying to learn that stuff, other INTPs passed it. So why I didn't? Isn't it a good topic for INTP to be good compared to other types? I feel useless now, because I don't know what I am good at.
 

Cogitant

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That's a blow, sorry to read that.
Everyone is wired differently, not every INTP is the same.
If/when you retake, you could do amazingly well.
Sometimes it takes longer to digest and assimilate knowledge on a deeper level for INTPs. We don't just learn facts and equations like others, we need to have a profound understanding of how a system works, and integrate that understanding into our perception of reality.
At that point we can have a full command of that subject.
When you finally completely understand it, you will experience a huge upgrade to your system/consciousness, and outshine your peers.
Don't give up :)
 

Ex-User (14663)

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I agree fully with Cogitant. I've had experiences where I have failed classes and then come back later and learned the subject better than any of my peers. Sometimes we do need a lot of time and deep thinking to distill concepts and see all the connections and implications. But when we eventually understand it, we really understand it.
 

redbaron

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so?

try again
 

Reluctantly

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Your life is now forfeit. Goodbye.

*screen goes to black*
~~~~
*credits start rolling*

*secret trailer for next movie appears*
"With this new formula we will bring him back to life better than before! He will be reborn anew and bring destruction upon us all! ~dramatic music starts playing~

*credits continue rolling*
 

Pyropyro

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Life happens. INTPs just have a unique thinking process rather than super geniuses so don't beat yourself up for failing. Just review your mistakes and try again.
 

Lot

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Science classes can be hard. How much actual study did you do? Is this a shocker, and you had no inkling you didn't get the concepts? My biggest issues with when I went to college was actually doing homework, or studying. Some teacher's teaching style made it fine for me to get away with this, but others it just didnt work.

I failed the entry level college algebra class, not once, but twice. I finally had a teacher that didn't giving homework, and just went over the questions in the book in class with the class. So I passed, but I probably would have done fine in the other classes if I had adjusted my attitude. The only classes I studied for, were philosophy and music classes. I liked the topics, so study was more like play. Were as math, is work. Shitty, boring, repetitive work that has no actual pay off, other than passing the class so I don't have to think about math.

Don't beat yourself up. Just try again, or be honest with yourself on whether you actually care enough about the class/topic to pass it. Did you do well in the prerequisites? Maybe you need to take a step back, take a previous class, then try it again. There is no shame in having to learn something over again. In life, many of us end back at square one all the time.

Lastly, typeology doesn't dictate what you are good at. Not everyone is Mozart, and then, he had to practice everyday for years before he was Mozart.
 

The Gopher

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As Lot says with prereqs, are you taking classes to pass or to learn. If you take them to learn you probably will pass, and at the other end you might actually know what you are doing. An idiot can pass a quantum mechanics exam just as easily as a smart person fails. The fact it seems you've only just failed here makes me think you've been riding on natural talent and not hard work. I could be wrong though, but either way if you take it again it's almost impossible to fail the same thing twice right?

Also depending on the Uni there might be a supplementary exam.
 

Minuend

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I think one of the most common issues is people might have gone through college relatively effortlessly with decent or good results, so when they get to uni they don't use studying techniques that are more effective and overall better. They think doing the same they did in college will yield equally good results.

I also think for some, there's a difference where they've been mostly cramming in college, but in university you're also more dependent on understanding what you've read. There's a somewhat distinct difference here. You can understand what you memorize "shallowly", but understanding it "properly" requires putting what you've read about in a larger context and understanding the implications of it. I'm not sure how to explain this difference, but I've seen A students from high school or college not understanding why they don't get As later in their study career. And the reason is they can reiterate well, but they show a lack of a "deeper" understanding.

It's something I actually see in paperwork done by people with jobs occasionally as well. Their reports don't read as something they understand, it reads like they've been given a school assignment and have tried listing as many relevant things (answers) to the topic they could think of, instead of considering the individual topic and the specifics of it.

Other things to consider are potential medical/ physiological issues. Vitamin deficiency can have very severe impact on cognition. So can any undiscovered illnesses. Psychological issues sometimes have the same effects, stress, depression and anxiety can reduce performance in school quite drastically. Some psychological issues like ADHD can interfere as well.

Do you know why you failed? I mean, did you take an exam and thought it did well? Or did you know before getting it back you'd fail? If the former, do you have a copy so you can ask someone for input on what you did wrong?

In any case, I'd recommend trying to figure out what happened and why before trying again, if you have the time. Ending up with huge debts because you try the same approach, just more of it, kinda sucks.
 

Polaris

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You missed the target - now you just have to make sure you aim better next time.

Failing subjects is part of being a student. I failed first year organic chemistry. I felt like absolute shit and a failure, but then, when I started thinking rationally about it instead of feeling sorry for myself, I was like: fuck it I know why I failed.
I simply hadn't studied enough, and therefore wasn't prepared for the questions :facepalm:

Solution: swallow my pride, figure out where I went wrong, go back and do it again and make sure I don't fuck up in such a stupid, lame way.

Cogitant has a very important point. I used to find mathematics and harder subjects difficult in the first year. However, as I've been exposed to other subjects where the maths and chem were already integrated, I've found these much easier to understand. I think I need the broader context, otherwise the isolated data doesn't make sense. I require an overview of the entire system before I can comprehend the smaller parts. I think this is why XNTPs tend to go much wider across subjects than other types, and therefore appear to work slower. I have been reprimanded by my supervisors for adjusting my focus too wide. But the thing is, Ne wants to acquire as much data as possible before Ti can get to work. Once that enormous amount of data is stored, the XNTP brain appears to take off at a much faster pace than any other.

I think you have to view first year as the absorption phase. You absorb without actually being able to comprehend it fully, but the data is nevertheless stored. Very frustrating for XNTPs. Then, when you get to second year, more data is added and you finally have a reference point - you have quite a few Aha-moments. This is the integration phase. In the third year (synthesis/application) you are finally able to apply the knowledge to more challenging tasks, but the penny doesn't really drop until you have a highly complex problem to solve where all your previous learning is applied (creative). I suddenly understood statistics when I was trying to solve a problem I was very interested in, for example.

I've recently completed science honours and I'm currently in the middle of processing 1 terabytes of data from a 48 hour marathon session at the Australian synchrotron + I have several other projects planned with different collaborators. I grew up thinking I was stupid, how come I'm here doing all this? Sheer hard work and a ridiculous level of determination.

You really want it? Go and get it, and be prepared to work your ass off. Come on, now :beatyou:
 

Valentas

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It can be devastating when not being used to failure. If you coasted through high school and early years electives at university, then not meeting the bar is really awful. I was very close to failing some math classes myself and having barely passed still was very disenchanting.

I think the worst part of the experience is wasting more time to graduate, at least for me. Last year, I lived with a guy who failed one module for 20 credits out of 120 and had to retake a year. That really sucked because he payed tuition of full year for 20 credits.

The main issue to understand is this: why did you fail? Not enough studying and effort? Was it because the subject did not interest you? You need to learn from this and move on.
 

PmjPmj

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You're right.

Striving for success is a terrible idea.
 

PmjPmj

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You need to push the envelope, Serac. Look at the bigger picture - allow the paradigm to shift so that we can expand and operate within broader parameters.

Don't worry about failure. We'll cross that bridge if we come to it. Remember: failure in the present is the key to future success.

I believe in you.
 

Ex-User (14663)

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You need to push the envelope, Serac. Look at the bigger picture - allow the paradigm to shift so that we can expand and operate within broader parameters.

Don't worry about failure. We'll cross that bridge if we come to it. Remember: failure in the present is the key to future success.

I believe in you.
I agree, except I tend to believe one cannot speak of "success" unless one has a destination to succeed towards. It's easy to get intoxicated with motivational talk about "success", as if success is a goal in itself.
 

QuickTwist

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If you are expecting different results doing the same thing, you might want to rethink your methods.
 

Reluctantly

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Steps for success

1. Kill the Serac in your mind.
2. Pursue success as a way of life and fail.
3. Learn from failures.
4. ??
5. Become GOD.
6. ??
 

The Gopher

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You know we should really ask the successful members what their tips are...






You know we might have a problem.
 

washti

yo vengo para lo mío
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Are you not satisfied with members who just appear to be successful?
They have that tendency to write strong short sentences. We need a INTP forum success ranking. Only the top 10 will be allow to give advices. @.@
 

Reluctantly

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You know we should really ask the successful members what their tips are...






You know we might have a problem.

You mean like archie? We were ungrateful little shits that pushed him away from this realm. We are now doomed to darkness and the pain of constant failure. This is our future now...
~sad music plays in the background~
 

Ex-User (8886)

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thanks guys for response, I went to professor and dean and I got one more chance to pass the exam. it was tough for me because of despair, I wanted to give up, but good people like you make me to fight. thanks
 

Cogitant

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thanks guys for response, I went to professor and dean and I got one more chance to pass the exam. it was tough for me because of despair, I wanted to give up, but good people like you make me to fight. thanks

Glad to hear it.
Good luck with the questions in your next exam.
 

The Gopher

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You mean like archie? We were ungrateful little shits that pushed him away from this realm. We are now doomed to darkness and the pain of constant failure. This is our future now...
~sad music plays in the background~

No I mean successful people.

thanks guys for response, I went to professor and dean and I got one more chance to pass the exam. it was tough for me because of despair, I wanted to give up, but good people like you make me to fight. thanks

Nice! Now respect this chance and fight.
 

redbaron

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That's not a very clever solution in general. There needs to be a thought process behind it.

do any of these thought processes result in not actually trying again?

it seems like it wouldn't be very clever to come up with a thought process but then not actually bother trying again with the new thought process

:^)
 

Ex-User (14663)

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do any of these thought processes result in not actually trying again?

it seems like it wouldn't be very clever to come up with a thought process but then not actually bother trying again with the new thought process

:^)
Sometimes quitting is the best option. If you fail as an alchemist, it doesn't help to watch more motivational videos and get all excited about "striving for success" and all that. Maybe it's the best option for most people who fail classes, I don't know. It's just that in this particular case, one can point to specific things which suggest trying again is actually what needs to be done.
 

Minuend

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The argument between people who failed a lot and eventually succeeded vs the people who failed a lot and then failed some more after that.

Sometimes failure in the present is just the key to more failure in the future, and then people kill themselves.

Well, I don't think there's that much of an disagreement in this thread, it's more the tone comes off as "just try sum more and you'll magically succeed", but I assume that's not what's actually meant.
 

Shieru

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+1 @Minuend and Polaris

If you try and fail at something, usually it has a lot to do with a flaw in your approach.

I find it helps to remedy failure to think about the literal causality of what you did and how it effected the situation, quite like the experience Polaris described. Answering the question of just how you failed can help you build a better strategy for the future, or strengthen what skills were too weak to produce success.

It's also important not to despair. Our success or failure in the world is easily conflated with our fundamental sense of self worth. But I think, it needn't be this way. The truth is, being human means learning by trial and error to some extent, and messing up, failing, being uncertain and unsure of ourselves.. No one's perfect. I think though, part of what defines our character is how we decide to handle failure, whether we let it bring us down or if we learn the best we can from the experience and try again (or try at something else) as a better person on the other side.

There's also the fact that sometimes we consciously try to do something that just doesn't work for us in reality. We go against the grain of our own nature, and the way we actually fit into life and humanity. When this happens, it can seem as though something outside us is intentionally preventing our success. But the truth is that we're just trying to do something impossible for us, at least in the moment. I think it's important to listen to reality when it attempts to teach us in this way. Thinking about the reality of your desires, motivations and nature and what this all means in context of your goal can reveal whether it's best to adjust and try again, or to choose a different direction.

College isn't the only path in life, imo.. sometimes real life experience can lead to more skill acquisition than going to the trouble of a degree.
 

Happy

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Geez. @OP: just go and do it again. Everyone fucks up every now and then. Who cares? Nobody worth your time. Now go and get back on that horse.
 

nanook

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We go against the grain of our own nature, and the way we actually fit into life and humanity. When this happens, it can seem as though something outside us is intentionally preventing our success.

Reminds me of this teal swan video i wanted to rewatch. She spoke of overachievers who can't even get themselves to loose a battle, when loosing would be what could set them free from their false self. Contrasting underachivers, who can't even manage to win, when pushing through all the way would set them free from their false self. https://youtu.be/s7Twx6L7fPs
 

Shieru

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^ Yes, exactly. isn't it so counter intuitive how we end up resisting the very thing that would allow us to truly know ourselves and to heal? The ego gets to caring more about protecting its sense of self than it does about our own well being.

That's a great video! ty for sharing. She says it all so succinctly, definitely gonna post this one around ^^
 

Jason988

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I haven't passed an quantum mechanics exam and failed a year at college. I was trying to learn that stuff, other INTPs passed it. So why I didn't? Isn't it a good topic for INTP to be good compared to other types? I feel useless now, because I don't know what I am good at.

Failed? There is always an upside to everything. You just have to dismiss the negative and go after what you want. Your type only dictates the way/speed you process information. Don't rely on type for this. There are ESFPs that have passed I am sure. It is the amount of effort you put into to it. Intelligence is not the deciding factor; drive and dedication is. Take resposiblitly for where you let yourself down. Don't blame your type or anyone else. You learned what does not work for you. That is it plain and simple. If that is your goal then visualize how to get there. Don't play the pity card on yourself or allow others to pity you. You are responsible for you in the world. Own that and go get what you want.
 

pjoa09

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I don't know how INTP-ish am I since I have made many irrational feely decisions.

I can say however, I am like a cockroach.

I fail a fuck tonne.

Like. A lot.

Like. I am retarded.

I am gonna probably fail tomorrow as well.

I have never been good at anything. I just weasel my way through classes or spend five times the hours I should spend on it just to pass.

I am just a CS major.

Personally, I think its a bit of a leap just to assume that if one spent a lot of their time thinking by themselves to assume that they would be better at quantum mechanics.

I think one would be better at quantum mechanics if they were just smart and spent more quality time thinking about quantum mechanics.

If I knew I was good at something then I wouldn't be spending money learning how to do it. I'd be done.
 

Kuu

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Failure is an inevitability. What people need to see is that it is their attitude towards life that is messed up. You should expect failure to happen and not let it stop you, actually be welcoming to it.

You should plan small steps and be open to multiple approaches, when one fails you just learn and switch to the next; you have refined your understanding so it is a win too. Only the closed minded would bang their heads against the door that has closed before them and ignore all other options.

Letting yourself be demotivated is the real defeat, even before the reckoning.
 

TheManBeyond

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