What does IQ actually represent?

[HDINTP]

So I have been reading about this guy and actually found it pretty interesting. What type do you think he is? I think he could be ENTP...?

Next thing that cought my interest there was that he is said to have an IQ of 125 at high school. That leads me to next point: I am even more persuaded now that IQ tests do meassure just ability of an individual to take it. And here is my next question for you: "Do you think that IQ is heritable?" I doubt it. In my opinion if your brain is not damaged then everyone can achieve as much as other? At least in terms of "intelligence testing" which is not. That is just "testing of one's IQ". Tell me why someone should have higher "potential"? I have this opinion for "very long time" but now it is stronger than ever. How can you even meassure something as complex as intelligence is? You can't can you?

Next is correlation between school and IQ. This is something I think... First of all. What would you say school actually does or what it is trying to teach? I think schools just teach procedures. Some of them are "more difficult and some less, but in the end (even though there probably is bottom limit to do so by which I try to represent what has already been reached (required limit) to handle it you can have almost any given individual tell him you will kill him if he does not finish that school and he will do it won't he? (unless he collapses psychologically).

So I have lost my patience with "standardized test" or belive or however you call it.

1) I would like to know your opinions on Intelligece - what it is how it changes if somehow during life (causes etc.)
2) IQ - again what firstly it "should" represent and what it really does in your
opinion
3) Your thoughts on Feyman and his IQ
4) Your overall attitude towards different kinds of standardized tests.

 

[own8ge]

125 is normal

 

[HDINTP]

125 is normal

First it depends on what you call "normal"
and second it could depend on a scale couldn't it?

 

[own8ge]

First it depends on what you call "normal"
and second it could depend on a scale couldn't it?

No, 125 is normal. And the concept of IQ is irrational and nonsense.

 

[HDINTP]

No, 125 is normal. And the concept of IQ is irrational and nonsense.

Oh so that is how you see it well then...
Don't know that people do nonsenses otherwise we would not be in the situation we are today... everything goes to .... don't you think?

 

[own8ge]

Oh so that is how you see it well then...
Don't know that people do nonsenses otherwise we would not be in the situation we are today... everything goes to .... don't you think?

I dont understand the "everything goes to .... don't you think?" part. But yes, we live in an irrational situation today

 

[Roni]

1) I would like to know your opinions on Intelligece - what it is how it changes if somehow during life (causes etc.).

I can feel my intelligence (that is, what I subjectively perceive to be the bits measured in an allegedly objective IQ test) decreasing over time.
It's a sensation I call 'brain = porridge' which is probably the same as what others call 'dull' or 'muzzy' or 'woolly-headed' and the opposite of 'bright' or 'sharp as a tack.'
It's worse when I'm tired, sometimes to the point of being so upset with myself I question my worth, and it improves noticeably when I've had a good, restful few weeks off work, although not (I don't think) to the point of feeling as intelligent as I was a decade earlier.
In this sense I suppose I equate intelligence with brain efficiency.

 

[snafupants]

The term intelligence quotient is an outmoded misnomer. At any rate, the composite score from modern mental examinations should ideally tap abstract reasoning ability across a gamut of cognitive domains. I should add that g, intelligence and IQ are three different things.

Most competent intelligence tests today enjoy g-loadings of ~.8 and explore the construct of intelligence via the prism of CHC theory. Two more things - because of margin of error and classical test theory mechanics and potential variability of subtest scores, confidence intervals should more readily be accentuated by psychologists; number two, although variegated tests are preferred, any test that taps g extensively can be employed as proxy for mental capacity.

It doesn't matter that the test is totally verbal, spatial, numerical or some combination of the three as long as the test showcases high g as vindicated through factor analysis. Any IQ test is merely an instrument for tapping g and glancing intelligence or quantifying abstract reasoning ability; every test has limitations.

Different societies utilize intelligence differently, per their idiosyncratic prerogatives. Largely because of Johnson's Great Society and overcooked political correctness, the United States focuses on funding for disability remediation rather than giftedness or provisioning for the future. This is to the United States' detriment.

 

[own8ge]

@snafupants
It's rather amusing how you try to explain such simplicity to this mortal. I'd say your objectivity has succeeded and now the mortal thinks to have a grasp on truth. Happy he might observe itself, but I hope we both know, the mortal will unfortunately die ignorant.

 

[interpret31]

I haven't had the time to read enough literature on iq testing...I have a couple of books I plan to get at once my exams are over, but I do believe intelligence exists...the idea that everyone has the potential to achieve awesome things sounds like feel good stuff to me. Even from talking to people you can tell who is smarter, and there are some skills that require more mental capacity than others. I had an argument with a friend who told me that every profession has a wide store of knowledge. True, but in the end, how challenged do you think an engineer would be doing plumbing? Or do you think someone with the intellect to do medicine would be satisfied learning carpentry? Attempts to quantify intelligence might be a bit off, but objective intelligence definitely exists...

 

[snafupants]

In layman's terms, IQ is an approximation of one's ability to understand and manipulate complexity, which undergirds learning capability. Someone with an IQ of ~75 (e.g., Forrest Gump) isn't going to quickly profit from instruction whereas the opposite is true of gifted folk. The key thing is extrapolating (Ti-Ne) and creatively using the knowledge (Ti-Ne-Si?) once it comes into consciousness.

 

[Reluctantly]

The presumed size of our cognitive penis...I hereby declare!

 

[HDINTP]

I haven't had the time to read enough literature on iq testing...I have a couple of books I plan to get at once my exams are over, but I do believe intelligence exists...the idea that everyone has the potential to achieve awesome things sounds like feel good stuff to me. Even from talking to people you can tell who is smarter, and there are some skills that require more mental capacity than others. I had an argument with a friend who told me that every profession has a wide store of knowledge. True, but in the end, how challenged do you think an engineer would be doing plumbing? Or do you think someone with the intellect to do medicine would be satisfied learning carpentry? Attempts to quantify intelligence might be a bit off, but objective intelligence definitely exists...

To jobs you stated: Christopher Langan who's IQ is said to be about 195 actually between 195 and 210 and he was a bouncer for 20 years I think. I am not saying he was challenged but you can challenge yourself with your hobbies not at necessary at work can't you?

 

[Paladin-X]

125 is normal

Technically, 125 is above normal. IQ score is based on a normal distribution. 100 is average; give or take 15pts lies the majority of people with an average intelligence. An IQ of 125 falls within the Superior range, according to Weschler's classification scheme.

 

[rrgjl]

Technically, 125 is above normal. IQ score is based on a normal distribution. 100 is average; give or take 15pts lies the majority of people with an average intelligence. An IQ of 125 falls within the Superior range, according to Weschler's classification scheme.

I think he knows that. Or at least I hope he does, 'cause else he's just yelling stuff.
125 is obviously quite a bit above normal and close to 2 std devs (with std dev of 15) after which point you would be gifted.

 

[walfin]

IQ is supposed to explain G, or general intelligence, which is basically what is left after you have taken into account differences in specialised intelligence (Visual Spatial, Kinesthetic, Musical &c. &c.)

That is not nonsense even if you have a bone to pick with the methodology of IQ testing. IQ has been shown to correlate with many other things. Most people on this forum, I believe, know this.

125 may be significantly above normal, but if someone is an ENTP (as the OP has conjectured), it may not be significantly above the average for an ENTP due to the strong correlation between the S/N dimension and IQ. In any case, the average IQ for a particular population group may not be 100 (indeed, 100 is intended to be the mean IQ but given the inadequacies of current testing methods might not actually be).

First of all. What would you say school actually does or what it is trying to teach? I think schools just teach procedures.

This probably differs very greatly from country to country.

In my country I grew up in a transition period where education was concerned. There was a marked shift away from rote learning and memorisation to "critical thinking skills". The initial implementations were botched up but there have been many improvements over the years. They tried first to "teach" critical thinking and creativity by getting students to learn procedures like "SCAMPER" (you can go look that up) &c. &c. to "encourage innovation". When that kind of nonsense fell flat they gradually took an increasingly free form approach to teaching. There are still many problems to be ironed out but one can tell the effects on later batches of students (increased confidence etc., although the parlous state of the economy and the worry it brings does have a negative effect).

As far as current data shows IQ is both influenced by genes and the environment, so yes, school does have an effect on IQ. Pure rote learning probably dulls IQ but a more free form education which encourages self-learning probably sharpens it.