Your Clone?

[Auburn]

I wanted to ask you all something:

What do you think would happen if you met someone identical to you at mind?
​

What I mean is basically a "clone" of yourself. Someone who processes information in the exact same way as you do, and has close to exact life circumstances as you.

This is an honest question, and I'm sincerely wondering what you guys would do. I know that for lots of people, they wouldn't be able to stand someone like themselves. However, as I've entertained this idea for myself, I've imagined that I would love it. I think we would instantly become best friends!

 

[FacetiousPersona]

Re: Auburn's 500th Post!

At least we remain apart through our physical identity and separate minds. We are not processing as one entity. This is interesting to imagine.

 

[Chimera]

Re: Auburn's 500th Post!

I don't think Lor would mind giving you a custom title anyway. :P


Mm...if I met my clone.....
I'm not exactly sure what would happen.
I'm thinking that we would probably spend a lot of time in disbelief, trying to find something that we disagreed on. We'd be too skeptical about being identical. But if we got over that, we would be best friends. I can hardly imagine that...being near someone who knows exactly how your moods shift...exactly what signs mean what...knows exactly what you're trying to say when you're sitting there searching for words...
Whoa, got chills for a second.
Anyway, umm...yeah, I think I'd like it.
​

 

[Auburn]

Re: Auburn's 500th Post!

That's the same way I feel Chime ^^;

I imagine spending countless hours talking, finally being able to relate to someone fully - and knowing that they understand exactly what I mean. I imagine having the craziest conversations!

Just the thought of it gets me excited, actually! I tend to imagine that such a person would also stimulate me to do those things that I've always wanted to do but needed to do them with another person.

We would both pick up on martial arts and become each other's rivals - constantly learning more and more styles! It'd be pretty awesome to fight someone who can practically read your mind.

It goes without saying that we would both also love art, philosophy, nature, psychology, and video games! I can imagine saying "hey! want to learn how to speak Japanese?" to which of course the answer would be "I was just about to ask you that!" And so we would engross ourselves in language books and practice with each other.

Knowing how passionate I can be with the things that I like, I don't think it would be too farfetche'd to say that we could probably learn a language in a few months! Then we would move on to our next interest and master that also! xD

Music, art, natural medicine, hydrotherapy, linguistics, physics - and all those things that I wish I could do, I would do if I had someone like-minded to do them with. I can imagine reaching old age knowing over 5 languages, 10 instruments, being a expert mathematician, physician, herbalist, psychologist, and so much more....

 

[FacetiousPersona]

Re: Auburn's 500th Post!

If we are both spawned onto one spot with identical processes and experiences, I think it would be fascinating to meet them again in the future and compare how we function at this later date. It would be interesting to see how circumstances and experience have affected us. Surely our experiences would changed us, and the differences in our experiences would change the both of us in separate directions. However, our identical processes might lead to similar experiences, but these processes could be altered through the experience. Our processes should change over time--advancing or diminishing as a result of experience.

There are mental conditions which consequently cause one's processes to decline in ability. Maybe it is possible for one to develop their processes through knowledge and training.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Re: Auburn's 500th Post!

What do you think would happen if you met someone identical to you at mind?

Mutually assured destruction.

Having a near precognitive ability to know the other's plans would likely lead to a paranoia driven conflict as we would both have logical reasoning for attacking the other and no guarantee that any sort of peace isn't a trap.

Damn that would be fun.

 

[Weliddryn]

Re: Auburn's 500th Post!

Hm. If you are too similar to a person, there is too much unity, too much peace. In order for a person to make something of a relationship, there must be something to upset it, on occasion- a decision is only made when there is a problem. It is inevitable that conflict should emerge- it is necessary.

Not only that, but if the person is the exact clone of you, would they not react in the same exact way as you? You would be like mirror images, each doing the same thing as the other... It would be an odd concept, I think. A paradox, perhaps. But this seems to be going along the idea of determinism.

Entertaining a possibility of this happening with some differences between yourself and the clone, I would imagine that a person would find it to be a marvel at such similarities in another individual. This would take some time to pass. After it passes, I suppose it would depend on the individual. Some may grow quickly bored, others may always be in wonder of this paradox.

 

[FacetiousPersona]

Re: Auburn's 500th Post!

Mutually assured destruction.

Having a near precognitive ability to know the other's plans would likely lead to a paranoia driven conflict as we would both have logical reasoning for attacking the other and no guarantee that any sort of peace isn't a trap.

Damn that would be fun.

Are you sure that it would not lead to understanding and empathy? It could be possible for the two clones to collaborate instead of opposing each other. I believe that it would be devestating for two individuals of identical processes to oppose each other, for they would be par with each other, and the outcome of their conflict could be a stalemate or them killing each other simultaneously.

Perhaps they would not be equal after time. As I mentioned previously, experience could develop one of them to a superior extent mentally, and this could enable them to have the required advantage to prevail. You have to also consider the variables of the environment, which may provide one of the two with the natural conditions to achieve victory. Chance could be a factor which supports one of the two and grants a lucky triumph. This is assuming they encounter each other with the same history, experience, knowledge, intelligence, processes, and capabilities.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Re: Auburn's 500th Post!

We would enjoy trying to kill each other, in full knowledge that the other is enjoying it too.

Empathy isn't a factor.

 

[Cegorach]

Re: Auburn's 500th Post!

The way I've always imagined this is a little different that the traditional fantasy portrayal of a duplicate or cloned self. (I see Face has touched on this already)

In my opinion it wouldn't be quite as simple, the cloned self would be interpreting our actions from a separate perspective with a different set of rules and would inevitably come to entirely separate conclusions and speculations. Therefore the expectation that the mirror-entity would "entirely" understand us is ultimately flawed; I'll explain...

If you're anything like me you voice a very small spectrum of the overall essence of your line of reasoning, so when you experience a separate environment from them and concieve possibilities from said environment you will only communicate a fraction of these possibilities, and will take away seperate opinions from this, that could only be duplicated in your clone should you manage to perfectly replicate your experience for them. The more time you spend apart the more likely it is that you will begin to form separate opinions and spawn new emotions and realizations that will remould you from an exact replica to a foreign entity.

Now to answer how I would react to this...
At first I would feel naked, the thought that all of my mistakes, my doubts, and imperfections being laid out before another would be repulsive. I would certainly rationalize this away by reminding myself that my imperfections were also theirs, after the initial shock I would attempt to form a bond with them... fix their problems, utilize their strengths... and as we grew into "individuals" I would respect them immensely. For they would have all my strengths and all my fallacies and they would understand my pains and my regrets and my true intents, but they would not be me, and with this knowledge I would understand them and trust them and in all probability I would learn to love them.
I would try to make them great, and despite my protests, they would do the same for me and we would push each other to become more than would be possible had we only one consciousness.

*Sigh* I wish I existed.

 

[Auburn]

Re: Auburn's 500th Post!

Hm. If you are too similar to a person, there is too much unity, too much peace. In order for a person to make something of a relationship, there must be something to upset it, on occasion- a decision is only made when there is a problem. It is inevitable that conflict should emerge- it is necessary

Yes, I thought about this possible issue too, however, the beauty of it is that me and my clone would surely talk about this very thing. We would anticipate this, and figure out a way to counter it.

If we were to find it necessary, we would probably separate from each other for a time, and intentionally place ourselves in different life circumstances, so that upon meeting again, we are not so much alike that our relationship collapses.

We would purposely agree to read different books than each other, and then come together and discuss the new points of views we learned. Surely we would both understand that the maximum potential of us both could not be brought out if we were both exactly identical. Hence, we would try to complement each other. I might choose to study Shaolin Kung-Fu while ze studies Jujitsu - making our learning much more rich in the end! ^^

We would do so much analysis of each other and the dynamics of our relationship that I doubt anything could slip past us both! If we sense some issue emerging, we would feel completely free to talk about it with each other and figure out what can be done about it.

I would try to make them great, and despite my protests, they would do the same for me and we would push each other to become more than would be possible had we only one consciousness.
*Sigh* I wish I existed.

Precisely how I feel!!!!

 

[saffyangelis]

Re: Auburn's 500th Post!

If I met someone exactly like me, I would be curious at first, trying to check exactly how much they were like me, asking question after question (once we'd got past the initial awkward-ness) and probably having to reply to dozens of them too.

We'd probably become best friends then, switching from sitting in silence, reading, drawing, going to the internet, etc. to coming up with crazy ideas and plans, occasionally getting caught up in the idea of doing something on the spur of the moment, and then afterwards laughing at how stupid it was in hindsight, or how much we wished that we hadn't done that, or had done it better and so on. And of course arguing and debating against each other about different ideas (only we'd probably have to decide which side to argue at the start, it doesn't work too well if someone agrees with your every word)

It'd be like instant best friends, because we'd probably be able to understand exactly where each other was coming from, know when we wanted the support that we couldn't bring ourselves to ask for, and we'd understand exactly why we were reacting how we were. Having someone just understanding you like that would be an amazing experience all on it's own.

And of course, winding people up for the fun of it, lending books to each other, and actually getting a chance to have an intelligent discussion in real life wouldn't be too bad either. =P


And happy 500th post =P

 

[loveofreason]

Re: Auburn's 500th Post!

Half a title?

Auburn, you have wealth beyond mere title.


And wouldn't your scenario be the most fantastic opportunity for an objective view of oneself? As near as can be imagined anyway...

...and at last... I'd be able to read someone's mind. Could we communicate without words? ahhh... the variety of sighs and subvocalisations and the infinite permutations of meaning...

We'd never need to talk!

Wait... I talk to myself all the time... could I still talk to myself if the other 'self' was there?

Damn... would we get on each other's nerves as much as I get on my own?

We'd just spend all the time apart and we'd be happy!

 

[FacetiousPersona]

Re: Auburn's 500th Post!

And wouldn't your scenario be the most fantastic opportunity for an objective view of oneself?

We never perceive others objectively. I think we may cast our bias thoughts regarding ourselves upon our clones when aware they are a copy of us. It's like when you look into the mirror and see yourself through your subjectivity.

 

[loveofreason]

Re: Auburn's 500th Post!

I thought about it... yes, we all filter our perceptions. Subjectivity is ultimately inescapable, but we try for greater and greater objectivity...

still, this situation isn't quite like looking in a mirror and being confronted with what we expect to see... the other person isn't a physical clone, just a mental doppelganger? Wouldn't this help to shake up some of our entrenched self-perceptions? Something we hate in ourselves may not seem so despicable in the other, or a trait we were proud of may appear as evidence of vanity...

I think the situation would be fresh enough to give a renewed (changed) subjectivity... maybe that's a better term than objectivity in this case.

 

[FacetiousPersona]

Re: Auburn's 500th Post!

I thought about it... yes, we all filter our perceptions. Subjectivity is ultimately inescapable, but we try for greater and greater objectivity...

still, this situation isn't quite like looking in a mirror and being confronted with what we expect to see... the other person isn't a physical clone, just a mental doppelganger? Wouldn't this help to shake up some of our entrenched self-perceptions? Something we hate in ourselves may not seem so despicable in the other, or a trait we were proud of may appear as evidence of vanity...

I think the situation would be fresh enough to give a renewed (changed) subjectivity... maybe that's a better term than objectivity in this case.

What we see in the mirror is based upon our body-image, which is subjective. How we truly appear is distorted when we look into the mirror as a consequence of the subjectivity.

 

[Auburn]

the other person isn't a physical clone, just a mental doppelganger

Correct. In the opening post, I didn't necessarily mean a "mirror" of oneself, but someone identical at mind. Someone who thinks exactly like you. However feel free to entertain both.

 

[Ogion]

I would probably love it. We would.
Yes, i agree that from the moment of separation on, we would develop differently, but everything from before would be the same. (Which is a given in this scenario, right?) However i don't think we would be spending days and weeks talking about each other. That would be kinda senseless, since there would be no difference between us. It would perhaps be valuable at understanding ourselves better, just like in a diary, but actually i imagine it rather "blabla" "Yes, i completely agree" "blabla... " "Yes!". Well, d'uh!
Bow one good approach at this would perhaps be what Auburn said, let us read different books, but then, my mind works quite passively. Meaning i don't like and am not very good at reproducing knowledge, at teaching it. So i think we would get much out of it. The only real useful thing in that would be to be able to reduce the time to find real good books to a half. And then recommend these to each other.

The real benefit of it would be though, to have an ally. And allies we would be. If then one of us learns one skillset and the other another, we could for example actually be living self-sufficiently, which would be awesome.

Ogion

 

[loveofreason]

It occurs to me that a mental doppelganger doesn't automatically lead to identical behaviours either.

It is entirely possible, and more likely, that the other in question has developed somewhat different strategies for dealing with the interface between their inner and outer world. Different methodology. Even though the underlying mental landscape is the same, the actions will more likely follow patterns dictated by formative opportunity.

...or maybe this just indicates even in evident 'clones' there will be small variability. Individuality.

...just wandering thoughts...

 

[Red Mage]

I've said many times that if I ever met anyone who was exactly like me, I'd probably hate them and set out to destroy them. Several of my friends and acquaintances, who have never met each other, have told me randomly that they think I'd not get along with someone just like me.

 

[Luzian]

I would have sex with my clone

 

[Kidege]

^ I'm surprised it took 3 pages for someone to bring that up.

And I'd probably dislike the other me.

 

[Luzian]

^ I'm surprised it took 3 pages for someone to bring that up.

Leave it to me to be the first

 

[preilemus]

I would have sex with my clone

ive talked to one of my friends about this before. it wouldnt be considered gay would it? after all, having sex with your identical clone is the equivalent of masturbation right?

 

[Auburn]

I was careful not to specify the gender of the other individual. It could be either a male or female version of yourself.

 

[Luzian]

ive talked to one of my friends about this before. it wouldnt be considered gay would it? after all, having sex with your identical clone is the equivalent of masturbation right?

I'm too egotistic to give a crap

 

[sagewolf]

After the initial period of verification/awkwardness and embarrassment, there would probably be a longer period of intense friendship and closeness, where the two of us supported each other and enjoyed interacting with another person who understood us completely. Eventually, though, we'd wind up spending a few months or a year apart to gain different experiences and just spend time apart, because anyone exactly like me is going to value being different to other people as much as I do. So our options would be to a) live apart at intervals, to stop ourselves from being too similar or b) do just like Cognisant and his clone and get out the ol' crossbows. I think I/we'd like having someone around who could be counted on to understand what we were thinking, or even why we were thinking it.

I suspect, however, that I would have little sympathy for other-myself if other-I were in one of my downtimes, and other-I wouldn't have much sympathy for my own bad moods either.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

I was careful not to specify the gender of the other individual. It could be either a male or female version of yourself.

Cognisant = Lawful evil / Chaotic neutral
Female Cognisant = Chaotic evil
View attachment 568
It may not go well for me, but it'll be fun.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

A female me would be far too creepy. Especially if she had my body hair.

Otherwise I think I'd be rather indifferent to an identical me. I guess we could pull our rescources when buying books so we can share them. Seems redundant to have two though.

 

[The Fury]

I'd kill him and steal his identity.

 

[snowqueen]

After the initial period of verification/awkwardness and embarrassment, there would probably be a longer period of intense friendship and closeness, where the two of us supported each other and enjoyed interacting with another person who understood us completely. Eventually, though, we'd wind up spending a few months or a year apart to gain different experiences and just spend time apart, because anyone exactly like me is going to value being different to other people as much as I do. So our options would be to a) live apart at intervals, to stop ourselves from being too similar or b) do just like Cognisant and his clone and get out the ol' crossbows. I think I/we'd like having someone around who could be counted on to understand what we were thinking, or even why we were thinking it.

I suspect, however, that I would have little sympathy for other-myself if other-I were in one of my downtimes, and other-I wouldn't have much sympathy for my own bad moods either.

Interesting thread. The guy I have shared an office with for the last 5 years is an INTP and very like me although not a clone exactly. And our relationship has gone almost exactly as you describe sagewolf. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, sexual about our relationship - in fact I think of him as the brother I never had. It is a relationship of pure mind. When we were in our intense communication phase I experienced it as having an extension to my own mind or having two brains and used to wake up in a cold sweat worrying what would happen if he left or something happened to him. But someone else moved into our office eventually and that prevented us from having the intense conversations and I know that affected things for a while, but of course we talked about that too. I trust him 99%. And yes, the hardest thing is remembering to be nice to each other when we're in a bad mood.

 

[Chronomar]

I wouldn't talk to them at all. There would be no need to. Talking is just conveying ideas, and apparently, we would have the same ideas.

I would just sit next to them and read.

I would also perhaps try to break the clone-ness. If we each read a book that the other one had not, then we wouldn't be mind clones any more.

 

[Ermine]

That would be interesting. I think it would be a love hate relationship. I would love that they understand me, but they'd also know my deepest weaknesses and may exploit them if conflict arises. I'd also hate how they're not seizing the day, though I know I often don't either. Overall, I don't think I'd do too much with them because I already know what would happen. For it to be interesting, they'd have to be an idealized version of me.

 

[echoplex]

I would likely become very insecure and self-loathing upon realizing they are indeed me. I would probably tell him to cut that hair already. Oh god, I'd become an SJ!

 

[Ermine]

Exactly! I'd keep on telling my clone what to do. Go talk to the guy you like. Go get a haircut. Go apply for that job! Clean your room! Get some friends!

I sound like my mom.

 

[Ogion]

Hehe, you prolly do that because then you won't have to do it yourself even though *you* will be doing it

Ogion

 

[Tyria]

I would work together with them and we would get 5x the work a normal pair of people would. I wouldn't have to waste time with explanations as much if the person processes identically to me.

 

[Auburn]

I know this thread is old... >_< but..
For all the newer members, I'm just curious as to what you'd say.. and wanted to give u a chance to see this buried ol' thread - in hopes that something interesting comes out of it. ^^;

 

[Anthile]

I'd shoot that bastard. People like me shouldn't exist.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

http://www.vimeo.com/2381662
Hirsute
Synopsis: A young time traveler is confronted by an arrogant and hairless future version of himself.

Required watching for everyone who sees this post.
Not quite a clone reference, but darn close enough. Also hilarious/creepy.

 

[Cavallier]

I'm glad you dug up this thread. Once, when I was having a lot of trouble getting along with a certain person I stopped to ask myself how I would react if I was in the other person's shoes dealing with myself. Would I get frustrated with myself too? This inevitably sent me down a dark road. I ended up spending several weeks trying to figure out whether or not I could stand being around myself. Finally I decided that if I wanted to live a life with no regrets than I should try to be the kind of person I could live with. If I can't live with myself how can I expect others to?

So, I would hope that if I ran into myself I would find them interesting but not irritating except...I suppose I would still see the things in myself that I needed to improve. Therefore, if I ever ran into myself and found there was nothing wrong I've either reached Nirvana or I've become a complete narcissist. Either way it'd be time for me to move on.

Edit: @ RT Loved it!

 

[Auburn]

http://www.vimeo.com/2381662

Nice!
Do watch; it's definitely worth it guys =]

Spoiler

As for the message it presents - I think it does relate to the topic. Hm, I suppose he assumed that his other self would naturally like him - which wasn't the case.

If we were able to see ourselves outside of ourselves, we may find that we are way more repulsive than we imagine we are.

edit: lol. Cavallierose, said this way better than I could have.

 

[Van]

It's a really interesting question but if it happened to me, we probably wouldn't speak to each other in the first place. If we did somehow realise that we were identical in the head we would probably get obsessed with each other, get talking and then find that it's like every conversation we could have has already happened. We would soon end up going our separate ways, intending to meet up again soon but never getting round to it.

 

[Kuu]

I'm not new, but I never did answer.

In short, it would be great. We'd rule the world through sheer procrastination, wasting lots of time just doing our stuff. I'd love it.

 

[Death]

I would add him in the facebook...and then wait for each other to initiate conversation which will never happen.

 

[Dormouse]

My clone and I would not interact unless forced to, at which point neither of us would have anything to say. I doubt either of us would spare a thought of the encounter again.

 

[JUN]

Have hot steamy lesbian sex.

 

[bananaphallus]

Have hot steamy lesbian sex.

I think the narcissist in me would seriously consider doing the same - making sweet, passionate, naked love to a carbon copy of myself...although I'm not gay, so it's a toss-up/could get awkward.

 

[JUN]

Point is, your own carbon copy of yourself would totally know how to play with your body. Seriously. I mean, just think about it... Someone who INSTINCTIVELY knows how to handle your body ? Who's able to tweak every little curve and all the senses in you ?

That just sounds too awesome.

 

[cheese]

Fascinating, relevant thread that I encourage anyone interested in this to read: http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?t=12078

Especially snowqueen; I'm interested to see if you relate.

I've met a few people exceptionally similar to me (both genders). It was unusual. Conversations are very fun. I think it is useful to have an element of difference though. I haven't met anyone exactly like me, although perhaps I simply haven't noticed (different masks and so on).

I have more to say on this.