Where are they?

[Cognisant]

So "Drake Equation" this and "Fermi Paradox" that, and you get my question.

What's your theory as to why aliens haven't (or have) been encountered?

If we do meet alien civilisations how do you think that'll go?
In the same vein if we came upon a less developed civilisation how would that go?

Regarding the opening question here's my thought, alien life is highly probable, intelligent alien life is probable, intelligent aliens that that go down the evolutionary track of tool use will less probable, and that tool use amounting to anything more than constantly warring feudalism... well the Roman Empire fell, the Aztec Empire fell, China was set to take over the world at one point but they fell, I think the French ruled the known world at one point, and Hitler gave it a good try too.

Not to mention all the hunter gather tribes of the world, some of which persist to this day, clearly intelligence and tool use doesn't automatically equal technology, and even then civilisations that do develop technology eventually figure out how to use atomic energy, for a few decades there everyone was pretty sure we were going to wipe ourselves out.

If everyone wasn't thinking it... we might just have.
So we might be, if not unique, an incredible fluke to have made it this far.

 

[GodOfOrder]

in my view even if the odds are say .oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo1% they are still entirely possible, and if we assume that there is a universe for every probability that exists, then somewhere sometime there is a universe where we make contact with another intelligent species.

I would say that the odds are that somewhere in an infinitely vast universe there may well be a society as, if not more advanced, than our own. But if we assume that we are, at this time, the most advanced thing in the universe, then even if others like us exist, we have no way to find or contact each other. We are stuck blind and ignorant on our respective islands.

If we meet a society that is more advanced than our own, then they will bring devastation to us. Whether they come as scientist and explorers, benevolent care givers, or ruthless conquerers and slave masters, they shall bring disease and domination. We will have no recourse to combat it, and will be subject to their whims.

If we are more advanced and meet them, we will do the same as above to them. Human nature and history proves this. Think Cortez, colonialism, manifest destiny, christian missionaries, crogan (mass-effect), the heart of darkness, etc.

If we meet on equal footing, perhaps we can have trade and enrich each other's societies, and go where no man has gone before. Or perhaps we go on a mutually genocidal campaign of war that sets both civilizations back 10,000 years.

 

[Cognisant]

I could believe a more developed race has already found us and is keeping us in the dark for our own good, not wanting us to go all prostrate and childish, or maybe they did and that's why we're still trying to quell religious lunacy.

 

[BigApplePi]

I think the 1st step to see what the chances are would be:

(1) Continue exploring cosmology.
(2) Figure out how life could have begun right here. That's a doable. I'm not sure, but there may be a prize out there to the first person who does just that. Do you think that given the nice home we have right here on Earth, life would have likely developed anyway?

 

[BigApplePi]

Maybe a more intelligent race would be so intelligent they would bother with us unless there was a entomologist among them.

 

[Fukyo]

Alien life forms, even if intelligent could be so drastically different interaction isn't possible. Their chemical/physical composition and necessities for sustaining themselves in accordance with it could be completely incompatible with our own, their perception channels and general cognition could also be dramatically different from ours, preventing communication. In other words they might not even be able to be aware of our existence despite relative intelligence and vice verse.



They might figure out a way to observe us, and who's to say they haven't? Anyone seen that ep of Voyager when there's a whole research crew probing everyone on the ship and no one can see them?

 

[GodOfOrder]

They might figure out a way to observe us, and who's to say they haven't? Anyone seen that ep of Voyager when there's a whole research crew probing everyone on the ship and no one can see them?

I love that episode, yay for seven of nine

 

[Auburn]

How very curious.

(perhaps they're all honoring the prime directive )

I would hypothesize...
Tentatively, that...

• Perhaps they cannot reach us. Considering the Milky Way alone is 120,000 lightyears across, imagine if the other more advanced lifeforms are in completely separate galaxies? And perhaps faster-than-light travel isn't physically possible.
• We could have been visited even just four thousand years ago (relatively short time ago) and left alone because we were considered too primitive. Or perhaps there were artifacts or evidences of their visits but it's been lost with time.
• The odds/numbers may fall within the very small gap, in which we're truly the only 'advanced' species in our galaxy and the first planet that "worked" and got this far was us. And all others are presently below us in evolutionary chronology, or failed, or likewise in the rare gap where they're at our same level.

@GodOfOrder - I think there's no reason to assume the resources of our measly planet would be at all worthwhile to more advanced races -- that may even be able to generate matter, or mine stars or gas planets instead -- to warrant an attack on us. Of all the planets in even just our galaxy they could take from, it would be senseless that they'd take from us.


There's no reason to assume they'd have the same "human nature" either, nor that we in the future would not grow out of that habit -- whether by genetic engineering or due to having an abundance of resources that makes the carnal and primal thirst for survival, and the stealing for that survival's sake, obsolete.

ninja'd by people..

 

[Cognisant]

GodOfOrder - I think there's no reason to assume the resources of our measly planet would be at all worthwhile to more advanced races -- that may even be able to generate matter, or mine stars or gas planets instead -- to warrant an attack on us. Of all the planets in even just our galaxy they could take from, it would be senseless that they'd take from us.

Ditto on that, I'm actually surprised that we're not seeing stars quietly disappear as giant solar system sized mega-ships basically fly right up and eat them, I mean the bigger a ship is the safer it is and as relatively safe as planets are they're still a wasteful use of mass, so it only seems prudent that the older races out there would just go around hoovering up all matter and energy they came across to make their megastructure ships bigger and safer still.

 

[Philovitist]

What's your theory as to why aliens haven't (or have) been encountered?

They're very, very far away and not at all as obsessed with far-away things as we are, or like us in general. :/

 

[Cognisant]

You have a teeny tiny Pness

Edit: As in INTPness if you're too new to know the running gag that is.

 

[Philovitist]

No, P is my strongest trait.

Of course, only the I/E scale on the MBTI has any strong validity. >.>

EDIT: Also, fundamental attribution error.

 

[GodOfOrder]

@Auburn

While you may be correct about advanced societies perhaps not needing to harvest planetary resources, think about other reasons such barbarity may occur.

A nice sunny world with a clear blue sky,and by this pretty picture I mean a livable world, is as much of a resource as any raw material that may reside on that planet. Hell, they could even see us as an annoying insect that they need to exterminate before building their intergalactic resort and spa. We do this all the time.

Or perhaps in their infinite power, they simply bowl over us without even noticing.

@Cognisant

Perhaps this super ship eats our solar system, or at least our sun, in its quest for fuel and raw matter to process. This species is so advanced, it does not even see us as a factor.

 

[BigApplePi]

What if they are as intelligent as us but are silicon based? Made out of negative matter? Made out of dark matter/energy? Unable to tolerate our atmosphere? Require pressures of 100 atmospheres? Don't read the Science Times? Are gernamium based instead of carbon based? Are ESTJ's?

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

-Life forms here on Earth have been found near hydrothermal vents and under polar ice caps. Two extremes way outside our livable zone. It can happen here iow and thus could happen elsewhere in perhaps even more extreme circumstances. Earth may not be seen by them as they observe from a distance as worth the trip. We're looking for Earth-like planets ourselves. If we find one, wouldn't that be the focus of any trip we might make?

-Sol, from a cosmological standpoint is relatively young. Something more advanced may have little interest in us, especially if they already have more interesting things they've found in the galaxy to draw their attention. We are probably very rare being a living ecosystem and all but that doesn't mean we are a priority.

-They may have observed us and found us disgusting.

-From a resources standpoint, we've already used up a lot of what we had/have. If you're scavenging for food in farmlands, do you try to find it in the field plagued by locusts or a field that's untouched? Before you can ask, what if they think we are food, look at the point about us possibly being disgusting above. If, they've already been here, our unicorns may have been the only thing they found edible.

-Space, is a big motherfucker. We are but a grain of sand on a very big beach. Finding us wouldn't exactly be easy despite the fact that we've been broadcasting our prescence for 80-90 years. Going back to the beach analogy, they would still have to have some kind of detector within an inch of our little grain.

-We can not assume that any life forms, even ones evolved from a similar planet as Earth would develop physiologies that could even interact with ours. So the disease spreading thing strikes me as unlikely.

-There are four boys in a small town in Colorado that believe Earth is a reality show presented by a galactic broadcasting network called Fognal. I'm going with that theory because

:smiley_emoticons_mr

 

[InvisibleJim]

I don't know. Descriptive thread titles elude me :C

 

[Chad]

Its possible that life only ever existed on earth and that there is not suitable place for life other than earth. Life is very very picky after all. That being said, I think its likely life may exist on other planets/large solar rocks. The truth is this mystery may never be solve due to the vastness of space that life could possibly hide.

Has other life forms visited earth. Maybe but I don't assume they have. I don't know why they would want to as I am sure their motives would be forien to me however, I don't think that they would be disgusting either. (This is because I have no actual reason for believing they even exist in the first place)

Like others have said the universe is a big place even if others have perfected space travel its not all that likely that they would stumble upon us. Not impossible just unlikely.

 

[Nezaros]

Its possible that life only ever existed on earth and that there is not suitable place for life other than earth. Life is very very picky after all. That being said, I think its likely life may exist on other planets/large solar rocks. The truth is this mystery may never be solve due to the vastness of space that life could possibly hide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremophile

Life isn't that picky. Given the vastness of space it's practically guaranteed that life exists elsewhere but as demonstrated here the odds of their interacting are extremely slim.

 

[EditorOne]

"In the same vein if we came upon a less developed civilisation how would that go?"

We know the answer to that, I think, and it hasn't been pretty.

 

[walfin]

"In the same vein if we came upon a less developed civilisation how would that go?"

We know the answer to that, I think, and it hasn't been pretty.

P'raps humans will be more enlightened the next time round?

 

[Duxwing]

What if they are as intelligent as us but are silicon based? Made out of negative matter? Made out of dark matter/energy? Unable to tolerate our atmosphere? Require pressures of 100 atmospheres? Don't read the Science Times? Are gernamium based instead of carbon based? Are ESTJ's?

If they're ESTJ's, then I say we have them manage our chain restaurants.

-Duxwing

 

[Chad]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremophile

Life isn't that picky. Given the vastness of space it's practically guaranteed that life exists elsewhere but as demonstrated here the odds of their interacting are extremely slim.

Nothing is Guaranteed I said is was possible that life only exist on earth. I didn't say that it was diffident that only exist on earth.

I also said life most likely does exist on other planets but the likely hood of us interacting are even more slime.

Therefore what information did you add to this. Besides you saying the life on other planets is guaranteed which could only be a judgment call since nothing in reality is guaranteed until after you observe it. As far as I know this hasn't happened at least not as far as popper scientific observation goes. (unless the conspiracy theorist are correct which is also possible).

Saying that is is highly unlikely that life on earth is the only life in the universe is correct saying other life in the universe is guaranteed is putting the cart before the horse a little bit.

 

[snafupants]

If we do meet alien civilisations how do you think that'll go?
In the same vein if we came upon a less developed civilisation how would that go?

I, like Stanley Kubrick and Neal Stephenson, make the assumption that extraterrestrial travelers to Earth will have made great strides in harnessing nuclear technology or an equally potent energy source; there's enormous potential in nuclear fusion, and advanced life forms would economically realize and harness that energy, if only by observing their sun. There's reason to think these travelers would also be a carbon-based life form. In most cases, life should necessitate a friendly breeding environment over billions of years. In Earth's case, proximity to a star, which helps ensure flora and temperature conditions, proved crucial; a habitable and stable atmosphere also helps; it would be nice, additionally, to be quite a distance from a black hole. Now, what do the aliens want? I would contend if they took the time to check in with an admittedly underdeveloped species like humans (they found us!), they would be searching for intergalactic carnival attractions or pure theoretical study. These are the two scenarios if they happened upon Earth on purpose. If by accident, they either wouldn't care or they would make brief notation. Humans must be seen as a boring and ultimately destructive species to more advanced intelligences. I would presuppose an alien species going so far out of their way to be more benevolent than malevolent: would you travel millions of light years to fuck someone over even more? It doesn't seem plausible. Hopefully, aliens aid humans in their evolution towards an entelechy-rich godhead manifestation.

 

[Chad]

I never really understood assumption on alien life or anything life for that matter. Look at the world around us we still haven't figured out how the animals around as experience and perceive life but for some reason we can predict how more evolved creatures would react to life on earth.

We say they would ether find us primitive or stupid but you don't know this as fact you are guessing based off what you believe you might think if you were more advanced. However, you are not that much more advanced that the average human therefore these conjectures are almost useless.

This is under the same lines as human assuming to know how a infinite God would think. You have not reached that level and you perspective is very shallow. This is because you only have recorded history/ presently known facts to guide you understanding. Yes, we have come along way but we are no were close to understanding the physics that would allow for enterspace travel let along light-speed or sublight-speed travel that would be necessary for an advanced alien race to interact with humanity.

There is a lot of conjecture but it all amounts to creative science fiction. I am not purposing or denying the fact that alien life exist however, I would say if it does exist the interaction with man would most likely run the gambit of all possibilities. This is due to the fact that we have no evidence how this life would function and what it conciseness would be comprised of, all the way to the fact that we wouldn't know there motives or even if they had motives in the first place. They could very easily just accidentally stumble upon earth with no intentions at all.

 

[BigApplePi]

If they're ESTJ's, then I say we have them manage our chain restaurants.

-Duxwing

I have no problem with that as long as we carefully check items on all menus.

 

[BigApplePi]

Its possible that life only ever existed on earth and that there is not suitable place for life other than earth. Life is very very picky after all. That being said, I think its likely life may exist on other planets/large solar rocks. The truth is this mystery may never be solve due to the vastness of space that life could possibly hide.

Wait a minute. Why are we so self-centered? We happen to live on the edge of our galaxy. What if two OTHER civilizations lived close to each other on different planets? They might realistically be able to get together and pool their efforts. Then all we would have to do is triangulate. Of course, that last step might contain faulty logic.

 

[Chad]

Wait a minute. Why are we so self-centered? We happen to live on the edge of our galaxy. What if two OTHER civilizations lived close to each other on different planets? They might realistically be able to get together and pool their efforts. Then all we would have to do is triangulate. Of course, that last step might contain faulty logic.

This may make it easy for us to find possible especially if there were some cluster of intelligent life however this is still hard to find and prove with current technology. Its more likely that other more advance socialites could find us but they wouldn't have the advantage of several inhabited planets in the same solar system.