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What would happen in a house full of sensors?

StevenM

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If you were to commune with a group of sensors, with you being the only intuitive, explain the social dynamics that are likely to happen.

Perhaps more than likely, you have been in this situation, and can explain first hand. Otherwise, intuit the possibilities.

****

Actually, I'll quit beating around the bush, and state what I'm thinking. I believe it may be particularly likely that the intuitive thinker would eventually develop some kind of mental/emotional disturbances.

Maybe, someone could shine light on this or prove me wrong.
 

crippli

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If being the N and the big picture thinker of the group in the house. I would perhaps take charge. Establish autorithy and have the house run after my tune. This should satisfy both them and me. Mental/emotional disturbances avoided.

This is based on the principle that the minority will always be better off being in charge imo.
 

PmjPmj

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You'd be beat down, somehow believing yourself to be deficient and without worth; everyone would treat you with vague (or blatant) contempt. Your insights would be refuted and you'd be regarded as completely inane / boring, because none of your interests would marry up with those of the others.

/someone who grew up in an S family and had only S friends up until recently.

Fortunately, I now have some intuitives in my life.

[Self-worth intensifies]
 
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I've grown up with a single ISTJ mother, and for several years, had an ESTJ step-father. And all I can say is that it was often absolute hell. Not only are they sensors, but not even the bearable sort. SJs.

Some things I learned:
-They will assume what they want about you. It is unlikely that they will ever understand what you think/why you do the things you do.
-Compromising in such a household is impossible. Their word is law and disputing that just leads to never ending, circular arguments in which they fail to explain their reasoning.
-They believe stability is all you need and that they're doing a good job parenting if you have your basic material needs. Or, in other words, emotional/moral support isn't really a priority to them (although I'm sure that's not the case with F-doms).
-They're incapable of taking blame.
-You'll be compared to the past a lot and have things now irrelevant held against you forever (but that's quite specifically Si).

But OP, you're probably right. I'm sure I'll be discovering emotional and psychological scars from such an upbringing for years to come. hahaha :D
 

BrainVessel

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Some things I learned:
-They will assume what they want about you. It is unlikely that they will ever understand what you think/why you do the things you do.

This is very true. Growing up surrounded by mostly S types I was constantly boxed and I believed them because I respected outside feedback even though it was incorrect feedback based on their underdeveloped and perspective-less Si.
The few other N types around me, I found were doing the same. It was a vicious cycle of intuitive bashing throughout my family and friends, and since that's all I knew, I joined them. The only positivity towards my perceived oddness and creative thinking were a few teachers, a school program for kids with IQs over 120 and creative thought, and a school robot programming group.
Otherwise the world couldn't handle my oddness and because of that it took a long time for me to be able to.

I don't know that I would be bold or convincing enough to be able to take a leadership position. The S types and even N types I have in my life are deeply ingrained in social construct and they would see my opinions as radical and rude, therefore I would probably lose patience and stop trying to rationalize with them even though if I tried hard enough I would be able to convince them.
Just not one for trying hard when no one cares to listen.
 

crippli

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I don't know that I would be bold or convincing enough to be able to take a leadership position. The S types and even N types I have in my life are deeply ingrained in social construct and they would see my opinions as radical and rude, therefore I would probably lose patience and stop trying to rationalize with them even though if I tried hard enough I would be able to convince them.
Just not one for trying hard when no one cares to listen.
Valid concern about about taking control. There are other variants though. I think it critical that I would be able to approach the situation as a game. Then focus on winning this game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgkBpWc8ngI
 

Ex-User (9086)

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If this was my house, I'd initiate contact and establish my rules. If this was a shared apartament, then I'd generally lock myself in a room and I would hope they stay quiet.

I used to live with an ISTJ for many years and I found that avoiding prolonged visual/auditory contact to be the best strategy. Another one was not contesting every incorrect conclusion they have come to, rather focusing on protecting my privacy and basic freedoms and defusing the mood.

I think living with most "dominant leader" types would be a very destructive and disruptive enviroment to me since I usually want to have control over my life.
Some things I learned:
-They will assume what they want about you. It is unlikely that they will ever understand what you think/why you do the things you do.
-Compromising in such a household is impossible. Their word is law and disputing that just leads to never ending, circular arguments in which they fail to explain their reasoning.
-They believe stability is all you need and that they're doing a good job parenting if you have your basic material needs. Or, in other words, emotional/moral support isn't really a priority to them (although I'm sure that's not the case with F-doms).
-They're incapable of taking blame.
-You'll be compared to the past a lot and have things now irrelevant held against you forever (but that's quite specifically Si).
I've experienced everything on your list.
 

TheManBeyond

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I'll probably become the outcast, separate from the group and think i'm better off alone and that humanity is shit compared to my unique ethics/world view, me better than everyone. Eventually this would lead me to depression since i know this is not true, that battle is always present. I'm in fact a piece of shit who can't do anything well. Sensors are cool, for SJs, at least their good usage of Te and Si lead them to success in laboral world.
Even xSFJ are better than me since they can make people depend on them and they have laboral stability as well. = Tons of friends.
 

Pizzabeak

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They'll make fun of you because they do hella stuff and they'll say you don't do anything, they'll all claim to be "sarcastic" and awkward but in one on one you shall, usually, "win" arguments. You don't like or even feel like hurting people's feelings but seemingly must.
 

Architect

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If you were to commune with a group of sensors, with you being the only intuitive, explain the social dynamics that are likely to happen

You'd be beat down

I was raised in a family of S's in a extended family (cousins, uncles, aunts) of all S's. Immediate was ESTJ, ESFP, ESTJ, ISFP, ISTP (and me). Further all my friends growing up were S types, high school close friend group were ESTJ, ESFJ and ESFP (and me). It wasn't until I met my wife (INFJ) that I found my first, long term intuitive relationship. I'm sure I came in contact with other intuitives but the circumstances weren't there for long term friendship.

What Pmj2 says is the main part of what happens, though in my case with a quiet rebellion and I didn't lose self-esteem, but the negative reinforcement unfortunately works in other more subtle ways. First is the beating down - that's what happens continually. Even when they don't intend it or are otherwise kidding, well even their kidding around is beating you down. S types are concrete and physical so they like concrete forms of expression. They constantly are pushing S on you - especially the extraverted ones. They can't help it, it's the way they are, and they don't see it as being pushy. But to a S inferior (or tertiary) it's horribly invasive and destructive.

For example, you'll just be acting as yourself, like looking off in the distance and thinking, or coming up with an unusual idea, and then a S will loudly say something to the effect of "WAKE UP!". It's a S response, but it can shake you out of your mode so strongly as to be highly destructive. Another time I said something unusual about how plants evolved and my S buddies laughed their heads off at how off kilter it was. They "weren't laughing at me" but they were laughing at me, you know what I mean.

I have literally a million examples. Especially with an Fe inferior an INTP will feel horribly out of place and like something is wrong. In me it led to quiet rebellion, I knew I was better than them in some sense, but it wasn't appreciated. In terms of the results the short term pain went away quickly but long term it insidiously leads to several problems.

One, your native type may not naturally develop as it might otherwise, because the other side is pushed so much. People beat the drum of needing to develop your weaker functions all the time, I beat the drum that you need to develop your stronger functions more.

Two, at midlife it will probably result in a "type crises". Jung saw this in his patients, he thought that a midlife crises was mostly due to people being forced to act out of their type earlier in life. I think that's certainly true especially for Intuitives.

At any rate my discussion here and the work I'm doing in Type is due to this early upbringing. My wife says it's like I've got PTSD, like a recovering soldier. There's a lot of truth to that. The good news is that I've made good progress and am at the tail end of the process. Basically I've been 'refactoring' my personality to strengthen the bond between it and my type. Oh, I'm the same person, just with different habits really. Some of the things I've done

  • Gotten rid of too many relationships, like those old HS friends. It wasn't working out anyhow and just caused pain and trouble. Now I have a small group of close friends - two mostly an ISFP and an INTP.
  • Gotten rid of hobbies and interests that were more of a reflection of my S induced upbringing, like photography. Now I like photography, but on the scale of my interests it's rather low, but takes up a lot of time, money and energy. On self analysis I realized it was mostly a response to the overbearing S around me, as a way to try and meet it halfway.
  • Cleaned up my S induced attitudes to find my own attitudes. For example, going outside. I've always been a big hiker and use it to "clear my head". But again on deep analysis I found that it was really a way for me to get away from the S types and think, and frankly I didn't like it that much. I'd waste half the day by going somewhere for a hike, which would simultaneously feel good and would be a letdown. Instead I gave myself the option "how would it be if you stayed home more, but your house was really your castle?". So I built up a office and situation to that idea and found its much more satisfying. Now, instead of hiking (which I still do occasionally) I go sit in my beautiful backyard. It's enough for me.
  • Religion
  • Work

And so on ... the point is that I needed to reexamine everything I thought and believed to see if it really was something I thought and believed, or if it was really something imposed from my early upbringing. Then it's a process of finding what I really thought and reprogramming myself. This takes time because the neocortex does it at night time.

PS. I'll add that having an INTP son has been a major catalyst for this too. I've learned as much from him as he's learned from me, because I can see what ideas a "native INTP" comes up with and can test against myself. For example, he said he didn't like hiking, it bored him yet I kept trying to get him to go out for hikes. Finally I took a step back and had to question myself, "did I really like hiking that much?". After some contemplation I found that no, really I just liked hiking very occasionally and my time would be better spent elsewhere. I found I had guilt from wanting to stay indoors and be on the computer, because the S types kept telling me that was bad somehow.
 

Mithrandir

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If being the N and the big picture thinker of the group in the house. I would perhaps take charge. Establish autorithy and have the house run after my tune. This should satisfy both them and me. Mental/emotional disturbances avoided.

This is based on the principle that the minority will always be better off being in charge imo.
This would never happen. They wouldn't give a rat's ass about your grand ideas and would band together to maintain the status quo. Your intellect wouldn't satisfy them, their social bond will. You will be cast as a slow-witted eccentric. And you, as the slow-but-deep-witted eccentric will retreat inside yourself and stop caring.

(Yes, I realize that I switched from the indefinite modal auxiliary to the definite. The situation became very real in my mind about half way through.)

I was raised in a family of S's in a extended family (cousins, uncles, aunts) of all S's. Immediate was ESTJ, ESFP, ESTJ, ISFP, ISTP (and me). Further all my friends growing up were S types, high school close friend group were ESTJ, ESFJ and ESFP (and me).
This might explain why you think it's ok to say you're more right because you're old (very SJ behavior). Just an observation......:twisteddevil:
 

Architect

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[/COLOR][/I]This might explain why you think it's ok to say you're more right because you're old (very SJ behavior). Just an observation......:twisteddevil:

Actually I've never said that, though the interpretation is possible. The reason I will say that is to make the point that whatever is being discussed is something that I've learned from experience. Most of the time I used to believe what the other person is saying but flip flopped after some years. It's supporting evidence is all and not meant to browbeat my opponent (though I'm not above that either).

In reality I care little about being right vis-a-vis with others, I honestly care about being right with myself. I put these thoughts out there hoping for challenge, but most of the time that just takes the form of "you're wrong" or "you're arrogant" instead of something we can chew over. One day ...
 

Belak

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I'm still suffering the parenting of an ESTJ mother and an ESTJ stepdad. In fact, my real father is one of the only intuitive people close to me(ENTP). But he isn't around most of the time so I have had to adapt into a sensing household.

I like to have my own beliefs and ideas, but my mother likes to force things down my throat. Personally, I believe in a God that designed things in accordance to science. She, on the other hand, is a hardcore creationist.

They believe that their "well" established rules are to keep me safe, but they are actually preventing me from lots of things. They like to say things like, "because i said so."

I thrive on debate and knowledge and sensors inhibit that.

One example is this forum, I can only get on here really at school or away from home because they disabled the internet on my ipad because they don't trust me because they think that I will do bad things because they would've as kids.

But I mention adaptation to a certain extent. I've had to learn to keep my mouth shut and to box In everything. I spend hours in my room playing minecraft or reading or watching House M.D. I have to do things like that to avoid them(it's partly introversion).

I hope desperately that like architect said, one day... I won't have to deal with the things about them that irritate me the most.

To answer your question, I think that a house hold full of sensors would be a very argumentative household where Me as an intuitive would feel very uncomfortable and cornered in by all of the contradicting different people around me.(of course, this is based on my own experience ironically, so it may be different)
 

nanook

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money would disappear and they would wonder who did it. urine would accumulate in the washbasin. pieces of fingernail would be discovered on the floor. bogeys would accumulate under chairs and tables. i'm designed to live off the fruit from the tree that is grown by sensors. :twisteddevil:


I can hide behind a facade of agreeing with everything but they will eventually fry me for hiding something from them and for not contributing pro-actively.

If i don't hide and show how little enthusiasm i have for their efforts, they will ridicule me for a while and fry me later.

As an adaptive type (s.o. who prefers extroverted perception) i'm not driven to get authority over anyone.

The only way i could attain authority over them is if there is opportunity to improve the functionality of some work flow set up.

in other words using directive perception, in my case Si.

if i'm not allowed to do this, i'm perceives as useless.

i'm naturally messy, because i'm lazy and happy to ignore anything that falls to the ground but i use minimalism to design a home were not much can go wrong.

i put thought into every detail and replace it with something better or I remove it.

basically i have the mind of an estj (= the architect + perfectionist + composer/ridley scott etc) inside (apparently my current self image is INFP).

but i can never have that social behavior of a director, because i can only push the estj pattern on occasion and your social role has to be constant.

nevertheless it's tested and works. it's the only activity that makes my father expresses respect, even almost subordination and thankfulness. he might be TiSeNiFe unless he is a severly broken dissociated NiFeTiSe. he even pays me for it. he likes order and is constantly angry about disorder, because Se is a slave to it's environment (i don't care at all) but he is truly incapable of designing an environment that can be kept in order. he can't even throw anything away. it's piles of boxes and cans of useless thrash everywhere and to him these piles are order. but he can't find anything. he is incaplale of reflecting priorities.
 

Jennywocky

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As far as growing up among sensors... fucking hell. I'm literally the only Intuitive in my family except for an ENFP cousin who I only got to see every few years (and of course I loved her to death, we're the only two people who "got each other" in our extended family). And pretty much my social world was "church" which again was populated mainly by sensors. (I think at my final stop on the church experience, in my 30's, one of my few friends was another N, an INFP... and we actually felt understood by each other and had the same issues with organized religion.)

Anyway, I dealt with all that mainly by being compliant on the surface and generally not sharing a ton, so that I could keep them out of my personal business. Making waves in that environment where I had no real allies and/or people who "understood" me would have just gotten them crashing down on me, and I had no desire to have my freedom restricted, my search for knowledge impeded, my private world invaded. So I did my lip service on the surface and learned how to swim in those waters without drawing the sharks; and I did well for many years. (But that kind of assimilation did cause me problems later when I was trying to find my own voice in the outer world again.) You should have seen the shocked responses when I finally began to assert myself later in life; all that time, they thought I was one of them, but... I was just pretending.

As far as emotional disturbances... well, technically I was diagnosed with generalized depression and anxiety when I finally did get to therapy in my 30's. But specifically, my issues: (1) victim mentality / abandonment issues, I always am waiting for the other shoe to drop in terms of someone dropping me because I didn't conform to their expectations, (2) got to be a good "liar by omission" and avoiding conflict when I should really be just getting in someone's face to stand up for myself, (3) tendency towards passivity and not setting goals for myself in case I could be judged for wanting those things (and not even knowing what I want), and (4) not even knowing how much to compromise to make something work out versus just drawing a hard line. Etc. I can have a thin skin, too, when I feel judged, and avoid people who I think will judge me. Any self-assertion I show on a forum like this is because it's a different environment + it's a way of behaving I am learning over the last few years.

Actually I've never said that, though the interpretation is possible. The reason I will say that is to make the point that whatever is being discussed is something that I've learned from experience. Most of the time I used to believe what the other person is saying but flip flopped after some years. It's supporting evidence is all and not meant to browbeat my opponent (though I'm not above that either).

In reality I care little about being right vis-a-vis with others, I honestly care about being right with myself. I put these thoughts out there hoping for challenge, but most of the time that just takes the form of "you're wrong" or "you're arrogant" instead of something we can chew over. One day ...

Sigh, the site lost my whole post (screen just locked and whited out -- it does this on occasion here for some reason) generally supporting your thought process here.

But the deal is that experience naturally does accumulate knowledge over time, especially in situations that the inexperienced might not have yet encountered. You get a really really *smart newcomer* to lead you through a dangerous jungle versus a guy who has been leading people through the very same jungle for twenty years successfully, and which are you going to pick to lead you? It's not that the latter guy happens to be twenty years older and a socially designated authority; his authority comes from having undergone these relevant experiences repeatedly for twenty years of time successfully. So that's what is being discussed here.

I even find this dealing with my ISFJ mom. I think it's fair to say (she'd admit as much) that my raw intelligence and creativity is much higher; but she's in her 70's now and despite her simple way of saying things, sometimes she says stuff that I just realize I hadn't factored in or that I really should take under consideration because of her life experience.

(Funny how parents get smarter, the older we get?)

It's odd now watching people half my age and sometimes potentially smarter than me walking into things I see going badly because I made the same mistakes or fell into the same problems when younger, or where they don't know how to deal with something that seems more obvious to me... but people also sometimes aren't open to anything EXCEPT making those mistakes and learning from them. So... how do you deal with that without sounding like a preachy middle-aged person? I'm still learning.

Anyway, I think my issue with "SJ mentality" here is more the mentality that age automatically makes you an authority on EVERYTHING, and that no one else has the right answer or an answer worthy looking at -- there is no openness to new possibilities, new data, new ways of seeing, no respect for people lower on the chain. I don't have a lot of use for that style of thought myself, and I have tried to empower my children as well as defend them against it when they were younger. They're much stronger as teens than I was as an adult, so ... that's positive.
 

TheManBeyond

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money would disappear and they would wonder who did it. urine would accumulate in the washbasin. pieces of fingernail would be discovered on the floor. bogeys would accumulate under chairs and tables. i'm designed to live off the fruit from the tree that is grown by sensors. :twisteddevil:


:D
 

Architect

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As far as growing up among sensors... fucking hell. I'm literally the only Intuitive in my family except for an ENFP cousin who I only got to see every few years (and of course I loved her to death, we're the only two people who "got each other" in our extended family).

I didn't know you were a fellow "Sensor survivor", though I imagine its probably pretty common.

And pretty much my social world was "church" which again was populated mainly by sensors.

School? Though again that is S dominated.


You should have seen the shocked responses when I finally began to assert myself later in life; all that time, they thought I was one of them, but... I was just pretending.

Interesting. I made no bones about being different and the watchword was "Architect listens to his own drummer", but as I detailed my issue is the inculcation which still occurs.

Sigh, the site lost my whole post (screen just locked and whited out -- it does this on occasion here for some reason)

Yup, I do two things, either write it in a text buffer for long posts, and for in-browser editing do Ctrl-A + Ctrl-C/Cmd-A + Cmd-C to continually save progress in a paste buffer. I do this every few sentences, it's saved me a bunch of times.

But the deal is that experience naturally does accumulate knowledge over time, especially in situations that the inexperienced might not have yet encountered. You get a really really *smart newcomer* to lead you through a dangerous jungle versus a guy who has been leading people through the very same jungle for twenty years successfully, and which are you going to pick to lead you? It's not that the latter guy happens to be twenty years older and a socially designated authority; his authority comes from having undergone these relevant experiences repeatedly for twenty years of time successfully. So that's what is being discussed here.

Thanks well said. I think I come off a bit of a prick here sometimes, more than I wish to. It's the Avatar and my style of writing, and I'm surprised when I get the feedback that somebody is feeling oppressed by my apparantely overbearing persona.

(Funny how parents get smarter, the older we get?)

My father gets dumber. There I said it. ESTJ who led the unexamined life. I think he never developed is introverted auxiliary, which Lenore Thompson says can happen to lead E's. He does unintentional, yet intentional stupid power trips on the rest of us, and can't see that he's doing anything wrong.

how do you deal with that without sounding like a preachy middle-aged person? I'm still learning.

I just put it out there, if they pick it up good, if not the'll figure it out. And maybe I'm wrong too, circumstances vary.

Anyway, I think my issue with "SJ mentality" here is more the mentality that age automatically makes you an authority on EVERYTHING, and that no one else has the right answer or an answer worthy looking at

lol ... yes (C-A/C-C always before pressing submit)
 

Jennywocky

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I didn't know you were a fellow "Sensor survivor", though I imagine its probably pretty common.

I know I've written about it before, but it was a ways back. Growing up was such a wasteland. I met my first real N's (close proximity) at college, although maybe my high school physics teacher was an NFP.

School? Though again that is S dominated.

I guess, but I just kind of ignored it at school for some reason. I think it's because the "peer pressure" dynamic was more blatant than S/N to me, and I didn't feel like like I had grownups judging me all the time. In church and family, it was the grownups who were actively dominating and judging.

Interesting. I made no bones about being different and the watchword was "Architect listens to his own drummer", but as I detailed my issue is the inculcation which still occurs.

People seemed to focus on the differences they appreciated (my brains and my creative spark and my "kind nature"), but making waves would have been stomped on if I had started marching to that rock beat.

Yup, I do two things, either write it in a text buffer for long posts, and for in-browser editing do Ctrl-A + Ctrl-C/Cmd-A + Cmd-C to continually save progress in a paste buffer. I do this every few sentences, it's saved me a bunch of times.

I know better, and I've often done that on other forums; I just forgot about this forum, which that weird "blank screen" quirk.

My father gets dumber. There I said it. ESTJ who led the unexamined life. I think he never developed is introverted auxiliary, which Lenore Thompson says can happen to lead E's. He does unintentional, yet intentional stupid power trips on the rest of us, and can't see that he's doing anything wrong.

Corrected: "(Funny how parents except for Architect's ESTJ dad get smarter, the older we get?)"

Well, if I'm honest, my ESTP 7w8 (or 8w7?) dad never learned either. It was a figure of speech.
 

Cherry Cola

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If I were to be locked in with S-types I would slowly and carefully construe an image of myself as being really wise and smart by only saying stuff when I have stuff that's wise and smart to say. I'd also work on my interpersonal relationships a lot so as to not get bullied. Being the only N guy in there I would stand out without being a threat, that would make me interesting. So if I can just keep that up for a while chances are I'd eventually be able to take control and turn it all into some Mansonesque nightmare.
 

TheManBeyond

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If I were to be locked in with S-types I would slowly and carefully construe an image of myself as being really wise and smart by only saying stuff when I have stuff that's wise and smart to say. I'd also work on my interpersonal relationships a lot so as to not get bullied. Being the only N guy in there I would stand out without being a threat, that would make me interesting. So if I can just keep that up for a while chances are I'd eventually be able to take control and turn it all into some Mansonesque nightmare.

sounds like your work on trp, reminds me of sippe too
 

Cherry Cola

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But I write a bunch of retarded crap there :D ie I act genuinely, if in a house full of S-types I'd have to conceal a lot more.

didn't Sippe delete the forum once he had the power?
 

Mithrandir

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Actually I've never said that
We'll let the jury decide on that one (we could start a thread about the things you may or may not say if you'd like, but I think I recall that very thing occurring not too long ago)
though the interpretation is possible. The reason I will say that is to make the point that whatever is being discussed is something that I've learned from experience. Most of the time I used to believe what the other person is saying but flip flopped after some years. It's supporting evidence is all and not meant to browbeat my opponent (though I'm not above that either).

In reality I care little about being right vis-a-vis with others, I honestly care about being right with myself. I put these thoughts out there hoping for challenge, but most of the time that just takes the form of "you're wrong" or "you're arrogant" instead of something we can chew over. One day ...
I was really just busting your balls, though I do think bringing up your age is easily unwanted and/or misinterpreted. I actually see little benefit unless the attempt is to make yourself exempt from explaining your position by short-circuiting the argument. No one benefits from that other than you by the time you might save doing so. Sure, knowledge can accumulate over time, but so do bad habits.
 

PmjPmj

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Christ, these threads advance too bloody quickly.

Architect - thanks for sharing, that was an awesome post. However, it was the very last sentence which slammed it all home for me:

I found I had guilt from wanting to stay indoors and be on the computer, because the S types kept telling me that was bad somehow.

I eventually broke away from S related shenanigans at age 19, and initially I felt terribly guilty about it all; people were ringing me up to attend parties, meals, events, ugh. In the end I turned my phone off (it was NEVER off), bought a copy of World of Warcraft and... well, that was it until the age of about 26 :smoker:

The amount of shit I got for doing something which I really enjoyed made it unbearable at times, though.

"You need to go out!"

"You won't find anything sitting up here all day"

"Life is passing you by"

"You'll never get anywhere"

"I'll never have grand children!"

"You'll never have a girlfriend!"

"You're going to die alone"

"You'll always be unhappy"

"You'll never amount to anything"

The list goes on.

Fast forward: I'm now married to a Spanish woman who is way out of my league (the object of everyone's desires at my old place of work - and we're talking ~ 100+ staff with many hot ladies; I did good) and a gorgeous 9 month old baby daughter. I own a house, I'm carving an awesome path to a niche career, I'm driving a fucking awesome car which is so fast I have to remember to breathe after accelerating and - most importantly - I'm surrounded by people who I love, and who reciprocate that love. Basically, current job aside, I'm winning at life.

Excuse me whilst I extend the following courtesy to the naysayers.

Ahem.

cRyjS8h0VVo.jpg


:cool:
 

Architect

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We'll let the jury decide on that one (we could start a thread about the things you may or may not say if you'd like, but I think I recall that very thing occurring not too long ago)

No, no jury, I don't care for that. I say what I say, if you have a beef with that then bring up a debatable point other than just 'busting my balls'. If anything from my S upbringing I'm tired of that, my balls are flattened so don't bother.

I do think bringing up your age is easily unwanted and/or misinterpreted. I actually see little benefit unless the attempt is to make yourself exempt from explaining your position by short-circuiting the argument. No one benefits from that other than you by the time you might save doing so. Sure, knowledge can accumulate over time, but so do bad habits.

You don't find it even marginally useful that an older person found some ideas to stand the test of decades, and others to fall by the wayside? OK noted.
 

Mithrandir

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You don't find it even marginally useful that an older person found some ideas to stand the test of decades, and others to fall by the wayside? OK noted.
Nope. I find it useful when ideas make sense.

However, if an ailment related to old age is affecting your judgement, by all means bring it up.
 

Architect

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The amount of shit I got for doing something which I really enjoyed made it unbearable at times, though.

"You need to go out!"

Good for you, you've done really well. The way to think of yourself is an "Indoor Enthusiast". Others have blazed this trail

  • Roz Chast, New Yorker cartoonist. Her husband says seeing her in the backyard (she did it once) was like seeing a deer in the NYSE.
  • Penn and Teller. They said that they don't go camping or anything like that.
  • Jeff Atwood who founded Stack Overflow

Glad you twigged on it, this is probably one of the greater points I had to get past. As you said there is so much pressure to go out and MOVE around, DO something, INTERACT with the world, which is pure bullshit of course. That's a S idea, not an N. We get way more by being at home. You know this year we're not doing any vacations away from the house? We'll just do some local trips, that's it. While all of my S friends and relatives are running here and there all over the globe.
 

scenefinale

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Rust from True Detective is classic INTJ (a lead intuitive) and most those he deals with on the show are sensing types, including his partner who is Se ego.
 
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They believe that their "well" established rules are to keep me safe, but they are actually preventing me from lots of things. They like to say things like, "because i said so."

Ah, yeah. This is a serious issue in an SJ household. The more you dispute their supposedly well-reasoned rules, the less they'll be willing to change their views or even compromise.

They will shelter the living hell out of you and then wonder why you're not as functional as they are or were at your age in the 'real' world. Haha. Not to mention their strict rules prevent you from properly socializing yourself as any normal teenager would, which is probably essential to an INTP so that they don't end up too socially stunted.

As a relatively responsible person who was always mature for their age I had the privileges of a 12 year-old at 16.
 

redbaron

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The intuitive will become a magnificent gentleman.
 

Bock

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If you were to commune with a group of sensors, with you being the only intuitive, explain the social dynamics that are likely to happen.

Misery
 

chi-moon

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You'd be beat down, somehow believing yourself to be deficient and without worth; everyone would treat you with vague (or blatant) contempt. Your insights would be refuted and you'd be regarded as completely inane / boring, because none of your interests would marry up with those of the others.

/someone who grew up in an S family and had only S friends up until recently.

Fortunately, I now have some intuitives in my life.

[Self-worth intensifies]

Yes, everyone will think you are abnormal, your view is worthless, and you are incapable to do anything right.
 

Minuend

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I assume it would be a roommate type of situation.

Probably joke around a lot, never really talking about anything too serious (I use this as a general rule with people). Get the fun I could out of the situations. Someone probably has a playstation, wii or something where we'd play against each other. Get drunk on the weekends.

It would be ok, maybe even a lot of fun, as long as there wasn't anyone particularly shitty. But if a person is particularly shitty, he is as annoying as an intuitive of that kind, so that's not a type prerequisite.

The most important factor for me to get along with someone is them being somewhat laidback and open to weird people. If I got that I can get along with most types of people.
 

Polaris

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Sensrs r bad, hmmkay? Practice target shooting. Cus' ther so stupid they wouldn't see it coming.
 

nanook

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Everyone thinks i am stupid and crazy for the things i have discovered after being an outsider to society for about 37 years. Raw food, entheogenic spirituality, stages of consciousness, typology. According to everyone, these are all delusions. "Everyone" includes Intuitives. It's possible and according to my definition of "N" (focussing on process) likely that Intuitives catch on hidden functionalities of the world earlier in life, but the world is so complex and it takes so much time to discover something. Even the basic ability to fully differentiate between cultural myths and empiric observations, imaginations and reality, takes 20 to 30 years, at least.

Whether you can get respect of people walk over you is a matter of how you socialize, not of what you believe in. The inventor of scientology was highly respected, for instance. So are most christian pastors. Terrence McKenna was a hero.

For me, being dissed comes down to being an adaptive feeler with schizoid social anxiety. I also seek acceptance from the wrong company, because i don't have it in me, to "find" or approach appropriate people. And what to do with people anyways? Being schizoid, all i wanna do is talk. No, better just think. No emotional risk involved in that.
 

Sinny91

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Everyone thinks i am stupid and crazy for the things i have discovered after being an outsider to society for about 37 years. Raw food, entheogenic spirituality, stages of consciousness, typology. According to everyone, these are all delusions. "Everyone" includes Intuitives. It's possible and according to my definition of "N" (focussing on process) likely that Intuitives catch on hidden functionalities of the world earlier in life, but the world is so complex and it takes so much time to discover something. Even the basic ability to fully differentiate between cultural myths and empiric observations, imaginations and reality, takes 20 to 30 years, at least.

Whether you can get respect of people walk over you is a matter of how you socialize, not of what you believe in. The inventor of scientology was highly respected, for instance. So are most christian pastors. Terrence McKenna was a hero.

After he fled country and created himself a new persona.

For me, being dissed comes down to being an adaptive feeler with schizoid social anxiety. I also seek acceptance from the wrong company, because i don't have it in me, to "find" or approach appropriate people. And what to do with people anyways? Being schizoid, all i wanna do is talk. No, better just think. No emotional risk involved in that.

Other people suck ass, KRO.
 

nanook

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I mean respected by his followers. Like thomas from pod'lair is respected by his. Or Charles Manson by his. Or that black chick with the big mouth from the neighborhood. I bet even this massive0r guy gets's respect. It's all about how you treat people. You demand respect, or else you don't get it. E8 know that.


(*A listing does not imply equalization)
 

Sinny91

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Stand for nothing, you fall for anything.
You have to exert your own agency in order to survive.
I think the only acceptance one should seek is with themselves, and the rest shall follow... Others can only meet you as deeply as they have met themselves.
 

Reluctantly

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Lots of sex would happen. a LOT of sex.
 

Yellow

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If you were to commune with a group of sensors, with you being the only intuitive, explain the social dynamics that are likely to happen.
That would depend on what S-types and what N-type we're talking about, and on the group dynamic. Is the N-type a child in a house full of S-type adults? Are they all equal? Are they all trapped in an elevator together? Is there a chance that the group would eventually resort to cannibalism? These are important factors.

If the S-types are decent mix, the N-type has at least some people skills (and relatively thick skin), and if they were all (theoretically) "equals", the N-type would quickly find him or herself valued by the sensors as an essential addition to the group .

As we depart from those elements, it would become increasingly difficult for all involved.
 

Sinny91

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What Yellow said. I've found myself in a number of group scenarios where I am the only intuitive. The dynamics of such encounters vary greatly.

You have the loud ESF's; being around these for prolonged periods literally drains my life force. I lived with a couple not long ago.. Solitude became my best friend; when I first joined this forum, much my posting took pace perched on some stepping stones, aside a brook, on the edge of a dark park; under the moon, or the morning sun. (conveniently, located on the proverbial doorstep)

The talking was incessant, and loud, and obnoxious.. and all sorts of wowblowmybrainsout.

Then you have the introverted sensors, they'll happily melt into the background, or scurry around like mice.. they often leave me questioning their social skills, instead of ours.

I have a family group (maybe even more than one) which is solely comprised of various sensors.. We rarely if ever connect intellectually -but that has never been a priority, and never will be.. We love each other in all our differences, type doesn't really dictate these dynamics.
 

Brontosaurie

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Wouldn't be able to move without setting off some alarm, get it , hahahahah
 

Reluctantly

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I'll kill them.

So prison for you then,

[bimgx=250]https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRN2zVhCOrtgBWrbNORYkekpDVAYofSGrammfk_7K2h-u--7igx[/bimgx]

I'd hang out with them when I wanted and just avoid them and let them wallow in their own drama. Unless meddling in the drama makes it more amusing. [bimgx=150]http://spindlemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/mrburns.jpeg[/bimgx]
 

The Grey Man

το φως εν τη σκοτια φαινει
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Given the choice of a sensor roommate (based on specimens I've met):

Preferable:

ISFJ - Usually pretty insightful and not lost in the details like STJ's.
ESFP - I am invisible to them, but a night of drinking is usually pretty fun.

Meh:

ISTP - Almost as boring as I am. Almost.
ISFP - Mild disposition belies self-righteous attitude, but still basically agreeable.

Troublesome:

ESTJ - 99% of my interaction with them is about how disorganized and weird I am.
ESTP - They don't like or trust me, probably with good reason. :phear:
ISTJ - Space cadet-bureaucrat personality clash.
ESFJ - I'll admit they're funny in small doses, but I eventually end up internally screaming, "shut the fuck up".

@Sinny91: Ah, a fellow TFK enthusiast.
 

Systemic Reaction

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I couldn't help but think...
is this really a conversation about sensors versus intuitors or rather, extroverts versus introverts who just so happen to be intuitives...
 
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