What personality type is the Joker?

[LifeLine]

What about Harley Quinn?

 

[Adymus]

Hatred for mankind?
mastermind of psychological manipulation?
Hides behind a persona that is more of an Idea than a personality?

INFJ

And I'd go with ENFP for Harley.

 

[JUN]

Joker is ENTP.

Harley Quinn is ENTJ.

 

[JUN]

Hatred for mankind?
mastermind of psychological manipulation?
Hides behind a persona that is more of an Idea than a personality?

INFJ

And I'd go with ENFP for Harley.

You suck at this bro, have you ever even met an INFJ ?

Also villains are never F.

 

[Adymus]

You suck at this bro, have you ever even met an INFJ ?

I have met many, and that is exactly why I am sticking to my decision. There are many facets to that personality that you are unaware of. I assure you I don't suck at this, know far more than you realize, which is exactly why my answers will be surprising.

Also villains are never F.

And that is just ridiculous.

 

[LifeLine]

I have met many, and that is exactly why I am sticking to my decision. There are many facets to that personality that you are unaware of. I assure you I don't suck at this, know far more than you realize, which is exactly why my answers will be surprising.


And that is just ridiculous.

I don't think Harley Quinn is an F, at least on TV, as is shown by her feelings for Mistah J.

 

[JUN]

I have met many, and that is exactly why I am sticking to my decision. There are many facets to that personality that you are unaware of. I assure you I don't suck at this, know far more than you realize, which is exactly why my answers will be surprising.


And that is just ridiculous.

Your face is ridiculous.

INFJs are the most beautiful creature ever to bless this land ! Jesus Christ and God were both INFJ !!!

 

[Adymus]

Your face is ridiculous.

INFJs are the most beautiful creature ever to bless this land ! Jesus Christ and God were both INFJ !!!

So was Hitler. End of discussion.

 

[Adymus]

I don't think Harley Quinn is an F, at least on TV, as is shown by her feelings for Mistah J.

mmm, why?

 

[Cobra]

I agree with Ran; your face is ridiculous.

 

[JUN]

So was Hitler. End of discussion.

OMG HOW DARE YOU SAY HITLER WAS INFJ !? THE SAME TYPE AS JESUS CHRIST, GOD, VIRGUN MAIRY, SAINT PETER, HOLY ANTHONY AND JOSEPH CONSTANTINUS ?

 

[LifeLine]

mmm, why?

The fact that she tries her very best to help him and the beginning and stays devoted to the Joker no matter how much he abuses her. She comes across as an emotional person, rather than a thinking person. She really doesn't seem to think before she speaks or acts and is quick to let her emotions get in the way of what ever she is doing (ex: going back into society.)

 

[Adymus]

The fact that she tries her very best to help him and the beginning and stays devoted to the Joker no matter how much he abuses her. She comes across as an emotional person, rather than a thinking person. She really doesn't seem to think before she speaks or acts and is quick to let her emotions get in the way of what ever she is doing (ex: going back into society.)

I don't think Harley Quinn is an F, at least on TV, as is shown by her feelings for Mistah J.

Buh?

 

[LifeLine]

Buh?

Oh... "F" is feeler as opposed to a thinker, my bad.

 

[Adymus]

I agree with Ran; your face is ridiculous.

So was Hitler. Discussion over.

 

[JUN]

So was Hitler. Discussion over.

You should have copy-pasted it so that it would look even MORE like you don't care.

You ruined my fun.

 

[Adymus]

You should have copy-pasted it so that it would look even MORE like you don't care.

You ruined my fun.

Nah, changing two words adds spice in my life.

 

[Cobra]

I believe Himmler's face was more ridiculous than Hitler's. One reason being that ridiculous smirk.

 

[Adymus]

I believe Himmler's face was more ridiculous than Hitler's. One reason being that ridiculous smirk.

Yeah Himmler's face was pretty ridiculous... RIDICULOUSLY AWESOME!

Seriously, He looks like Kyle Dunnigan

 

[Anthile]

Okay, here is the trick: The Joker is hypersane which means he is aware that he is a character in a comic book. He does what he does because he knows that he's not really hurting anyone.


In conclusion: I am right and you are wrong. Bad luck, guys.

 

[onthewindowstand]

Maybe an INFJ?

He seems to be introverted for sure.

He is always talking about and thinking about things in his mind. Much more than his immediate surroundings.

He is harboring very negative feelings and a lot of what he does is in fact emotional/feeling based.

C'mon the guy planned out everything for sure a judger!

 

[Cognisant]

Joker (movie): INFJ encounters nihilism and undergoes a existential crisis.

A Thinker would repress their existential dissatisfaction and a Perceiver would come around the ideas of self determinism and having values simply for the sake of there being values; but an INFJ would get stuck in this malevolent rut and feel that in order to validate their existence they would have to make everyone else see the "truth".

i.e. Joker believes he's doing the "right" thing.

Harley Quinn... I dunno, the only consistent aspect of her character is that she's clearly attracted (perhaps more mentally than physically) to Joker and has this almost instinctive desire to follow him, he’s her alpha. This leads me to believe she's either a lovestruck introverted thinker or more likely an extroverted feeler with (I'm guessing now) deep unresolved father issues.

 

[JUN]

Maybe an INFJ?

He seems to be introverted for sure.

He is always talking about and thinking about things in his mind. Much more than his immediate surroundings.

He is harboring very negative feelings and a lot of what he does is in fact emotional/feeling based.

C'mon the guy planned out everything for sure a judger!

OMG JOKER IS NOT INFJ !!! JOKER IS MEAN AND JESUS CHRIST IS ALSO AN INFJ AND HES NOT MEEN K ? HOLY VIRGIN MARY !! HOW OFENSIVE!

 

[onthewindowstand]

Joker (movie): INFJ encounters nihilism and undergoes a existential crisis.

A Thinker would repress their existential dissatisfaction and a Perceiver would come around the ideas of self determinism and having values simply for the sake of there being values; but an INFJ would get stuck in this malevolent rut and feel that in order to validate their existence they would have to make everyone else see the "truth".

i.e. Joker believes he's doing the "right" thing.

Harley Quinn... I dunno, the only consistent aspect of her character is that she's clearly attracted (perhaps more mentally than physically) to Joker and has this almost instinctive desire to follow him, he’s her alpha. This leads me to believe she's either a lovestruck introverted thinker or more likely an extroverted feeler with (I'm guessing now) deep unresolved father issues.

I am an INTP and believe in both moral nihilism and determinism. I think because I am a thinker that my thinking nature supercedes by tendancy to be a perceiver.

 

[ashitaria]

With the way you're acting, Ran, I'm not surprised that people are ignoring you. Please, stop your B.S spam. We know that you don't think that Joker is an INFJ.

 

[JUN]

With the way you're acting, Ran, I'm not surprised that people are ignoring you. Please, stop your B.S spam. We know that you don't think that Joker is an INFJ.

YOU WILL BURN IN HEEL FOR THIS I WON'T FORGIT !!!

 

[onthewindowstand]

YOU WILL BURN IN HEEL FOR THIS I WON'T FORGIT !!!

OMG shut the fuck up. I checked this cause it said new post. I dont care about Jesus! He is a liar/insane man!

 

[Adymus]

I think the worldview that the Joker had was modeled after is a very real aspect of the INFJ worldview. Ni with Fe can see all of the flaws of society, and are constantly frustrated by knowing things can and should be far better than they are now. This frustration can often lead to hatred and an adversarial view of humans being too stupid to live up to what they think they are supposed supposed to be. Especially when the become extremely detached from their Fe, their views become even more radical, and they become less acceptable by society, which only increases their deep anger.

Don't talk like one of them. You're not! Even if you'd like to be. To them, you're just a freak, like me! They need you right now, but when they don't, they'll cast you out, like a leper! You see, their morals, their code, it's a bad joke. Dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these... these civilized people, they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve.

This personality Archetype makes an extremely interesting character, which is why it appears so often in fiction, like Rorschach and Tyler Durden.

I even have real life example:

Spoiler

YouTube- GG Allin's Last Interview - June '93 - 1 of 4

And before any noobs tell me GG Allen was an ESTP because of his sensual fetishes. Nah Homie, he isn't, just listen to what he is saying "I am the Massiah, the Prophet, I will lead the revolution against the government and the police." That is so Ni-Fe it is not even funny. However, Ni dominants often take on Se "Fetishes" as sort of a way of mastering their weaknesses, this sometimes comes in the form of Sex addiction, Drugs, Food, Racing, BDSM, etc.

 

[ashitaria]

I think the worldview that the Joker had was modeled after a very real aspect of the INFJ worldview. Ni with Fe can see all of the flaws of society, and are constantly frustrated by knowing things can and should be far better than they are now. This frustration can often lead to hatred and an adversarial view of humans being too stupid to live up to what they think they are supposed supposed to be. Especially when the become extremely detached from their Fe, their views become even more radical, and they become less acceptable by society, which only increases their deep anger.


This personality Archetype makes an extremely interesting character, which is why it appears so often in fiction, like Rorschach and Tyler Durden.

I even have real life example:

Spoiler

YouTube- GG Allin's Last Interview - June '93 - 1 of 4

And before any noobs tell me GG Allen was an ESTP because of his sensual fetishes. Nah Homie, he isn't, just listen to what he is saying "I am the Massiah, the Prophet, I will lead the revolution against the government and the police." That is so Ni-Fe it is not even funny. However, Ni dominants often take on Se "Fetishes" as sort of a way of mastering their weaknesses, this sometimes comes in the form of Sex addiction, Drugs, Food, Racing, BDSM, etc.

I have always found INFJs intriguing in their own right. Having chat with several INFJs online, their view of society, morals, traditions and philosophy always interest me without fail. Many a time I debate with them, and the debates go on for hours and hours yet without any hard feelings in the way.

I had this one INFJ who was so obsessed with the New World Order that he even drew out this 24X11 drawing about the ideal hierarchy and posted it online.

And they get a grip of the situation way faster than I could possibly grasp. I mean, it's almost as if they can see the auras of people.

Sometimes, I even wish I was an INFJ.

 

[onthewindowstand]

My sister i an INFJ and she is really annoying. Just saying.

 

[ashitaria]

My sister i an INFJ and she is really annoying. Just saying.

Sigh. I guess it all depends on the maturity of a certain typology.

 

[Adymus]

Sigh. I guess it all depends on the maturity of a certain typology.

It does, that goes for all personality types. Even INTPs can be super annoying when immature. Logic done to an extreme get's old pretty damn fast.

 

[ashitaria]

It does, that goes for all personality types. Even INTPs can be super annoying when immature. Logic done to an extreme get's old pretty damn fast.

Of course, if there was an immature ESFJ and an immature INTP, I'd pick the INTP.

 

[TheHmmmm]

It does, that goes for all personality types. Even INTPs can be super annoying when immature. Logic done to an extreme get's old pretty damn fast.

I don't understand how "maturity" has anything to do with MBTI to be honest. This concept that "if only they were more mature, (I'd like them more/tolerate them/they'd be a better person)" doesn't make sense to me. It seems to take individuality away from the types. A typologically immature person is someone who just hasn't developed their functions, particularly inferior ones, well enough? That doesn't seem to suggest that mature people, in MBTI-speak, have any common characteristics at all, but that's the impression I get when people say "well they obviously weren't a MATURE *insert type here*". I'm of the crazy idea that personality maturity has less to do with whether you'll like someone than their inherent characteristics. Does anyone know how a mature *insert type here* behaves? Has someone encountered a mature person of every type and an immature one? Color me bemused.

As far as Joker/Harley, I definitely see Joker as a crazy INFJ. No idea on Harley.

I also don't understand the INTP hype about INFJ's. I've talked to a few and I don't find them particularly interesting. In fact, the ones with a strong Fe refuse to partake in conflicting ideas and the more opinionated ones are downright annoying because they have that "inner vision" that they can't for the life of themselves seem to justify effectively to others.

 

[Adymus]

I don't understand how "maturity" has anything to do with MBTI to be honest. This concept that "if only they were more mature, (I'd like them more/tolerate them/they'd be a better person)" doesn't make sense to me. It seems to take individuality away from the types. A typologically immature person is someone who just hasn't developed their functions, particularly inferior ones, well enough? That doesn't seem to suggest that mature people, in MBTI-speak, have any common characteristics at all, but that's the impression I get when people say "well they obviously weren't a MATURE *insert type here*". I'm of the crazy idea that personality maturity has less to do with whether you'll like someone than their inherent characteristics. Color me bemused.

As far as Joker/Harley, I definitely see Joker as a crazy INFJ. No idea on Harley.

I also don't understand the INTP hype about INFJ's. I've talked to a few and I don't find them particularly interesting. In fact, the ones with a strong Fe refuse to partake in conflicting ideas and the more opinionated ones are downright annoying because they have that "inner vision" that they can't for the life of themselves seem to justify effectively to others.

About maturty: in a general sense, it is directly correlated to how your functions developed. Not neccesarily the inferior function, it could even be the Auxiliary, or both the Tertiary and inferior. But the more healthy your functions are, the more palatable you will be to other types. Not to meantion you develop your functions by using them, which gives you an overall wisdom from the experience.

About INFJs: Go meet more then, there is a good chance you have already met strong INFJs and mistyped them as T's. I agree that they are extremely fascinating creatures.

 

[TheHmmmm]

About maturty: in a general sense, it is directly correlated to how your functions developed. Not neccesarily the inferior function, it could even be the Auxiliary, or both the Tertiary and inferior. But the more healthy your functions are, the more palatable you will be to other types. Not to meantion you develop your functions by using them, which gives you an overall wisdom from the experience.

About INFJs: Go meet more then, there is a good chance you have already met strong INFJs and mistyped them as T's. I agree that they are extremely fascinating creatures.

Alright Adymus. I guess I'll go peruse the INFJ forum (for I'm way too lazy to find one in real life, what with the rarity and all).

 

[Adymus]

Alright Adymus. I guess I'll go peruse the INFJ forum (for I'm way too lazy to find one in real life, what with the rarity and all).

Meh... On second thought, the ones on INFJ forum are not exactly the best lot... Although I'm sure there are a hand full of good ones.

Also, while I have no empirical evidence to back this up, I think that statistic of their rarity is complete BS... Maybe it is just southern California, but I encounter way too many for that to be accurate.

 

[TheHmmmm]

Meh... On second thought, the ones on INFJ forum are not exactly the best lot... Although I'm sure there are a hand full of good ones.

Also, while I have no empirical evidence to back this up, I think that statistic of their rarity is complete BS... Maybe it is just southern California, but I encounter way too many for that to be accurate.

Maybe ur radar'z broken.

I kinda wonder how an INTJ's comments would be received there. So tempted to post in a karma thread...

EDIT: holy crap I found you. And you said what I was gonna say. Damn.

 

[Adymus]

Maybe ur radar'z broken.

I kinda wonder how an INTJ's comments would be received there. So tempted to post in a karma thread...

EDIT: holy crap I found you. And you said what I was gonna say. Damn.

oh my fucking god, that ENTP in that thread was starting starting to get on my nerves, he was just saying anything to win that argument. Next time someone tells me ENTPs and INTPs are basically the same thing only one talks more, I am going to copy paste that argument. Ne over Ti makes a huge difference versus Ti over Ne.

Nah, the MBTI instrument is horribly inaccurate anyway, and that is what the statistic is based on. I'd trust my own abilities over that any day.

 

[cheese]

Adymus, give us a rough breakdown of type rarity then?

 

[Adymus]

Adymus, give us a rough breakdown of type rarity then?

Okay but don't quote me on this, because this is just what I believe is more accurate.

ESFJ-15
ISFJ-15
ESTJ-8
ISTJ-12
ESTP-8
ISTP-2
ESFP-8
ISFP-6
ENFJ-5
INFJ-4
ENFP-4
INFP-3
ENTJ-2
INTJ-4
ENTP-2
INTP-2

Again, I could be way off here because this is just off the top of my head. I'll Get back to you when I have the funding to do legitimate research on this.

 

[cheese]

Thanks. So:

S>N
N: 26
S: 74

J>P
J: 66
P: 34

F>T
T: 40
F: 60

E=I (roughly)
E: 52
I: 48

Dominant functions:

Fe: 20 Fi: 9
Te: 10 Ti: 4
Ne: 6 Ni: 8
Se: 10 Si: 27

Fe>Te
Fe: 20
Te: 10

Fi>Ti
Fi: 9
Ti: 4

Fe>Fi
Fe: 20
Fi : 9

Te>Ti
Te: 10
Ti : 4

Se>Ne
Ne: 6
Se: 10

Si>Ni
Ni: 8
Si: 27

Si>Se
Se: 10
Si : 27

Ni>Ne
Ne: 6
Ni : 8


Following this, the most common dominant function is Si at 27%, and the least common is Ti at 4%.

The order is:
Si > Fe > Te/Se > Fi > Ni > Ne > Ti

This is interesting, and seems to fit in with the general ideas MBTI stats came up with (Ns are rarer than Ss, Perceivers are rarer than Judgers).


*edit
Added some stuff

 

[Adymus]

Ah damn it, I screwed something up, the J to P ratio should not be such a landslide majority for Js... Although the dominant functions ratios are just about right.

 

[cheese]

Oh...dammit. I just saw this.

Anyway, it's not totally accurate as you said, but it gives us some rough estimates. So SiFe really does screw over NeTi. Goddammit.

 

[Jah]

The Joker has a seeming flawlessness in his ability to predict peoples reactions and actions, leading them like sheep along a path, presenting them with a fork in the road where they ultimately have to prove their values. Always expecting them to behave like a feral animal once their deepest convictions are shattered, and mostly proved right, though as in the movie, occasionally proven wrong by the random element. (I'm not convinced about the boats in Dark Knight, and would certainly expect the people to destroy each other. Proven again and again by war.)

If you should consider the Joker INTP (Which I suppose was the underlying question. I doubt that he is. probably an INFJ, as Adymus proposed) Consider the proposition of 5 subtypes (especially no. 5): http://homepage.mac.com/bahlberg/iblog/B1386252977/C715152919/E467503953/index.html

 

[Jah]

Btw, the whole INFJ = Jesus argument.... It's moronic to assume that a God, a celestial superpower, beyond the human world of understanding, or the supposed son/avatar of said being, should in any way be subject to Human Analysis. (This is not a recognition of the existence of supposed being, merely an argument against the whole outburst claiming personality on something that defies evolutionary, psychological and logical reasoning and thus analysis. Granting personality to a "supreme" God, not a Human god like the Greek/Roman gods, would defy the whole idea that this god is everything. You might as well say that God is E/I,S/N,T/F,J/P including an unknowable factor (let's call it G). )


to sum it up,
Fuck off with the spiritual/supernatural or otherwise incongruent ideas when in a rational discussion of a way to model Human Psychology. (Unless of course you are trying to say that Jesus was a human being, and not in any way, a God-head/Avatar.)

Anyway, you should remember that all reasonable knowledge of Jesus must be based upon his own words, quoted and unaltered, which doesn't amount to enough for functional and accurate analysis.

 

[bovinity]

Heath Ledger's Joker has Ne flying around everywhere. I say ENTP.

 

[LAM]

Joker (movie): INFJ encounters nihilism and undergoes a existential crisis.

A Thinker would repress their existential dissatisfaction and a Perceiver would come around the ideas of self determinism and having values simply for the sake of there being values; but an INFJ would get stuck in this malevolent rut and feel that in order to validate their existence they would have to make everyone else see the "truth".

i.e. Joker believes he's doing the "right" thing.

Harley Quinn... I dunno, the only consistent aspect of her character is that she's clearly attracted (perhaps more mentally than physically) to Joker and has this almost instinctive desire to follow him, he’s her alpha. This leads me to believe she's either a lovestruck introverted thinker or more likely an extroverted feeler with (I'm guessing now) deep unresolved father issues.

I always wondered what would happen if they didn't.. I could easily imagine myself as doing what Joker was doing if I was a psychopath (its fun beating society...)

 

[Poprocks311]

OMG HOW DARE YOU SAY HITLER WAS INFJ !? THE SAME TYPE AS JESUS CHRIST, GOD, VIRGUN MAIRY, SAINT PETER, HOLY ANTHONY AND JOSEPH CONSTANTINUS ?

Calm down lady, they're all dead, so why does it matter?

 

[MidnightGino]

YOU WILL BURN IN HEEL FOR THIS I WON'T FORGIT !!!

OMG DO YOU SWEAR YOU'RE INTP? BECAUSE IF YOU'RE U'LL BURN IN HEEL FOR NOT BEING AN INFJ AND NOT BEEING LIKE ALL THOSE PEOPLE, OMG HOW DO YOU DARE?

Seriously, stop it with the theologic rants. If you want to rant about how you're so sure God, Virgin Mary, and all those saints were INFJ even if you haven't made them take a test, and some of them being people you've never talked with, go to the Faith forum.

Edited: Besides, how do you know someone will burn in hell? I didn't know you were the one who decided who goes where.