What makes you happy?

[AlisaD]

For me it's reading, walking, capoeira, friends, this:
YouTube- Gil Evans - Saeta (The Salton Sea soundtrack)

How about you?

 

[KazeCraven]

Happiness? Being appreciated for some trait I value.

I enjoy reading, walking, drawing, etc. but I wouldn't really call that enjoyable-ness happiness.

 

[speiss]

To be happy, you say? Just being satisfied with who I am, and how things in my life are going. Of course, if it was based solely on that, I would spend my life forever being dissatisfied. I do, like Craven mentioned, enjoy being appreciated, for somebody taking note of something I'm proud of. Such as, if somebody calls me pretty, I'm like "Yeah.. thanks." If somebody says "Wow Sara, you're so aware, and you're so intelligent," I'd be like ":3 Naw. You are too sweet." I like having my company enjoyed as well, and I like achieving my goals. There is nothing that compares to the feeling of success.

 

[Silas]

Reading - especially when you come across some esoteric-like theory, profound facts, or something that just completely resonates with ones internal world.
Long conversations with someone on the same level, or who is intriguing in some way shape or form.
Being surrounded by nature in a serene location.
Stupid, highly immature, yet harmless innocent childish fun.
Achieving something long strived for.

 

[shoeless]

good conversation, hugs, and love.
miniature things, like kittens and tiny bananas.
actually accomplishing something i started.

good conversation, hugs, and love.

 

[420MuNkEy]

The chemicals in my brain.

 

[Anchorite]

Music, my nephew, The History Channel, friends, raspberries, the city, movies, this , That Guy w/ the Glasses reviews, actually doing things.

 

[Dormouse]

Colour, mostly. Thunderstorms.

 

[ckm]

I wish I knew. Some things make me happy occasionally, like walking with my dog and appreciating the scenery. But if I'm down there isn't a single thing I can "do" that reverses these negative feelings.

I've found that happiness relates less to my immediate circumstances than I used to assume. Nothing has a consistent emotional effect on me; happiness - or sadness - is, I think, rooted in my state of mind at a given moment. These states of mind are extremely difficult to control. Sometimes I feel a rush of ecstasy from what seems like nowhere - it seems to happen when something resonates deeply within me.

 

[Crazythinker1]

Happy? I don't know if there is any one thing that can make me happy, but things such as: being out in nature, thunderstorms, fishing, being alone, reading, a really good idea to think about, working on small engines, solving difficult problems, completing a task. Things like this, generally promote a feeling of contentment in my life, but not really happiness. Or at least not happiness as defined by me.

 

[Lostwitheal]

I've found that happiness relates less to my immediate circumstances than I used to assume. Nothing has a consistent emotional effect on me; happiness - or sadness - is, I think, rooted in my state of mind at a given moment.

Have a cookie.

It's an unfortunate and widely affirmed indoctrination that happiness is something that can be attained from experiences, things and other people. Nay, that happiness can only be attained in this way. It's a message that's drummed into us from a very early age and one that is responsible for a fair share of the discontentment in the world today.

But the truth that you find yourself stumbling on here is that happiness is a state of mind which you decide to put yourself in, or not as the case may be. Once you're in this state of mind you'll find that nothing which happens can touch it - at your very core you are entirely unassailable to anything outside of your own existence. Unless you decide to be, in which case there's nothing which doesn't affect you.

This is a subject worthy of its own thread probably, but I'm already here and hijacking (sorry Alisa ) so I may as well continue.

Barn's burnt down --
now
I can see the moon.

In this Haiku you can see this state of mind in action: his barn has burnt down, but instead of getting sour he's enjoying the now unspoilt view of the moon. He could get upset, or swear, or run around screaming "Oh noes, barn is gone, can't store grain, going to starve, I'm done for!!!", but the simple fact is that no reaction will change what has happened, so why let what has happened disrupt his good mood?

There's a whole other part of this based on attachment and detachment, and how one breeds fear and the other breeds love, but I'm not going to get into that here.

To put it simply, happiness is a decision, not a reaction. What's generally defined as happiness is more gratification, or the fulfilment of desire.

 

[AlisaD]

This is a subject worthy of its own thread probably, but I'm already here and hijacking (sorry Alisa ) so I may as well continue.

No apology needed, a few minutes after posting this tread I was all:

"Oh my God, Oh my God, what was I thinking?! Posting a thread like this on the INTP Forum! And without even specifying what kind of happiness? Or what happiness is? Proving it actually exists? Oh my God! Oh my God! This is going to end in disaster."


But seriously, to some extent I do agree that happiness is a state of mind, which then raises the following questions:
How do you reach it? By meditation? Thinking? Drugs? and
How do you stay there?

Edit: I overlooked this part:

To put it simply, happiness is a decision, not a reaction. What's generally defined as happiness is more gratification, or the fulfilment of desire.

If this is so, why is it so hard for most people to choose to be happy? Once you do, why can't you stay that way?

 

[KazeCraven]

The chemicals in my brain.

Then the question arises, what causes the chemicals in your brain that cause happiness to activate?

 

[420MuNkEy]

Then the question arises, what causes the chemicals in your brain that cause happiness to activate?

The firing of neurons. The configuration of neurons is dynamic, therefore a static answer would not suffice.

 

[Lostwitheal]

Haha, well at least it hasn't ended disastrously. Yet.

How to get there? Meditation could help, but only as a means to an end. I would say it's not essential. Fundamentally I think that underlying values have to be changed, and this is where things tie into the attachment/detachment part which I mentioned. There's a whole heirarchy I remember seeing defined based around these which I cannot remember right now, but I'll do my best to explain it...

The default position in society is one of attachment, which actually arises from a crisis of self identification. Basically people tend to assimilate ideas of external things/people/experiences into their identity, so that when the object/experience/person is attacked or missing they react as if it's a part of themselves which is under attack or missing. This then has a direct impact on their state of mind and causes distress of some kind internally.

For example, someone gets a lovely new car and due to a poor sense of self they assimilate the idea of this car into their identity through attachment to it. When they then come back to their car to find that someone has scratched it they get upset/act hurt/get angry etc etc. There are different levels of this though - it could be that they're attached to the idea of monetary wealth and thus are hurt that it will cost them money, or attached to the idea of free time so are hurt that it will take their time to fix it. I hope that makes sense.

The value system behind this whole process, however, makes no sense.

On the other side of the spectrum we could start out with detachment and work forward from there. A different person gets the same kind of car, but because they already have a clearly defined sense of self the car remains what it is - a means of transportation, a car, separate from their idea of self. When this person comes back to their car they notice the same scratch, but are either unconcerned as the scratch doesn't alter the function of the car, or think "I'll have to get that sorted before it rusts", and then get on with their day, their sense of self unaltered by the scatch on the car and their mood thus completely unaltered by the incident.

There is a very similar pattern observable from positive experiences as well, in which the "attached" person gets their fix and is thus sated for some time, though at all times they fear never having the experience again which is what drives them to pursue it. The "detached" person, however, is simply free to appreciate the positive experience for what it is without the overbearing need for it or fear of losing it/never getting it again. They are then free to be able to "love" the experience/person/thing in the truest sense of the word.

Who's still awake then?

 

[AlisaD]

I'm awake, but I have a bit of a problem here, your post seemed a bit like you are suggesting that detachment is the path to happiness, but doesn't the same path lead to depression, apathy, and other cold and dark places?

 

[Lostwitheal]

Careful, don't talk about cold dark places too loudly. Melkor will come

Seriously though, this is part of the reason that it's quite hard to wrap your head around at first. I'm not talking about detachment in terms of having an active apathetic (that sounds contradictary!) attitude towards everything, that's more of a negative attachment I think. I'm talking more just in terms of not being attached.

I might have to think about how to explain this better

 

[Jesin]

I think I see what you're talking about, Lostwitheal. There is definitely a strong aspect of detachment to it, but it is not complete detachment, I think. It can go hand in hand with a kind of happiness, yes, but on the other hand it can also combine with a kind of sadness/pain, and I wonder if you've ever seen that.

 

[Kuu]

Happiness is a Warm Electrode

 

[AlisaD]

Happiness is a Warm Electrode

That's so sad.

Careful, don't talk about cold dark places too loudly. Melkor will come

Seriously though, this is part of the reason that it's quite hard to wrap your head around at first. I'm not talking about detachment in terms of having an active apathetic (that sounds contradictary!) attitude towards everything, that's more of a negative attachment I think. I'm talking more just in terms of not being attached.

I might have to think about how to explain this better

I actually know exactly what you mean, but the thing is, it's very hard to draw a line between a "good" attachment and a "bad" one.

So let me know once you figure it out

 

[telepathink]

I'm awake, but I have a bit of a problem here, your post seemed a bit like you are suggesting that detachment is the path to happiness, but doesn't the same path lead to depression, apathy, and other cold and dark places?

Attachement necessarily leads to suffering. Its just how world works.
Why would you feel depressed when you're not attached to anything?
Some for example are attached to sex and some others are attached to non-attachement but they are all doomed
If you are not attached, there is no cold place and no dark place. There is no attachement to your body and its perceptions. You see the light and the Buddha himself is waving you.

 

[walfin]

Writing music, writing stuff in general, letting out feelings. Building stuff with hands. Trying out new programming languages (which is also a form of writing). I suppose it is basically creating stuff. Reading too. Free exploration in new places, trying new and very slightly dangerous stuff.

And of course, control.

 

[AlisaD]

Attachement necessarily leads to suffering. Its just how world works.
Why would you feel depressed when you're not attached to anything?
Some for example are attached to sex and some others are attached to non-attachement but they are all doomed
If you are not attached, there is no cold place and no dark place. There is no attachement to your body and its perceptions. You see the light and the Buddha himself is waving you.

What if Budha is out for coffe, and he turned the lights off when he left, and all that's left is empty darkenss?

 

[AlisaD]

And of course, control.

 

[Evil Dave]

Pretty simple for me...
My girlfriend, music, booze, cigarettes, coffee, learning programming languages, linux.

 

[Cavallier]

I keep coming back to this one...

I enjoy a certain numbness when I'm detached but not negatively so, sure. However, I can't mistake this comfortable emotional stillness as being happy.

I enjoy being occupied such as when I read a good book or am thinking about something interesting.

Boredom brings agitation and agitation brings unhappiness.

 

[Words]

Happiness is a Warm Electrode

That's so sad.

Why?

 

[AlisaD]

Why?

Because it represents all that the western culture and science are becomnig.
It's an invite: "Let us take humans appart and prod and poke them. Let us see can we fix them in the same way we fix refrigirators. They're simple! It's fun! It works!"
It's a message: "What you thought was secret and magic and worth searching for can be acheived by sticking a wire in your brain."
It might one day eliminate our right to misery and depression, and I can't even imagine what horrors await us after that.

It's sad.

 

[telepathink]

What if Budha is out for coffe, and he turned the lights off when he left, and all that's left is empty darkenss?

you don't understand, buddha is a dried shit-stick.

 

[AlisaD]

you don't understand, buddha is a dried shit-stick.

Oh, please forgive my ignorance, enlightened one

 

[Lostwitheal]

you don't understand, buddha is a dried shit-stick.

You know, if you see Buddha walking down the street you should kill him - any Buddha which exists outside of you is not the real Buddha, and you should get rid of it and resume your own Buddha nature.

The unfortunate part of this is that you ARE Buddha, and thus according to your own claim, a dried shit-stick

Hmm.

 

[telepathink]

Enough of the smart talk.
I am getting back to what makes me happy, playing with these two:

 

[Words]

Because it represents all that the western culture and science are becomnig.
It's an invite: "Let us take humans appart and prod and poke them. Let us see can we fix them in the same way we fix refrigirators. They're simple! It's fun! It works!"
It's a message: "What you thought was secret and magic and worth searching for can be acheived by sticking a wire in your brain."
It might one day eliminate our right to misery and depression, and I can't even imagine what horrors await us after that.

It's sad.

I don't get it. ...because you've attached yourself to this "secret magic"?

 

[420MuNkEy]

Because it represents all that the western culture and science are becomnig.
It's an invite: "Let us take humans appart and prod and poke them. Let us see can we fix them in the same way we fix refrigirators. They're simple! It's fun! It works!"
It's a message: "What you thought was secret and magic and worth searching for can be acheived by sticking a wire in your brain."
It might one day eliminate our right to misery and depression, and I can't even imagine what horrors await us after that.

It's sad.

"That which can be destroyed by the truth should be."
-- P.C. Hodgell

 

[KazeCraven]

I don't think it's sad per se, but I put a high value on meaning.

If it weren't so invasive (and if it were more advanced), I'd use such technology to put myself in a mood to pursue meaning, rather than simply use the electrodes to go directly to a pleasurable state.

Looking at the neuro-mechanical level is useful for figuring out how our brains operate, but it's the wrong level of abstraction for non-artificial pursuit of happiness. Not that I'm knocking such a method.

 

[AlisaD]

I don't get it. ...because you've attached yourself to this "secret magic"?

In a way - yes.

I am attached to the search for happiness. And pain for that matter.

I dislike anything that's instant.

I guess I was born to the wrong century.

 

[AlisaD]

Enough of the smart talk.
I am getting back to what makes me happy, playing with these two:

Heh, I guess that answers the question of where your attachments, and the source of your happiness and misery lay.

It's a good place, though.

 

[420MuNkEy]

I dislike anything that's instant.

Then I think you have chosen an odd means of communication.

 

[Words]

In a way - yes.

I am attached to the search for happiness. And pain for that matter.

Why be attached? Why continue this attachment?

 

[AlisaD]

Then I think you have chosen an odd means of communication.

I don't seem to have a lot of choice. Speaking is a lot worse then writting, and do you know any people (I mean alive ones) who have something to say and would be ready to writte a proper letter, take it to the post office, send it and then wait for a reply for a week? If you do, please send me their contact details, I'd love to get to know them.

Why be attached? Why continue this attachment?

Why do anything?
It is what I like doing. I like attachemnts. They make me feel somewhat human.

 

[KazeCraven]

Attachments aren't actually something one can choose, right?

 

[Words]

Why do anything?
It is what I like doing. I like attachemnts. They make me feel somewhat human.

Do you know why you like this? Do you know why you want to feel human?

Attachments aren't actually something one can choose, right?

I believe you can to a certain extent. You can choose who to attach yourself to by staying with them, you can choose what by reinforcing it, and you can continue the determinism by not questioning. You can also fool your preferences.

 

[AlisaD]

Do you know why you like this? Do you know why you want to feel human?

No. I know nothing about whys. It seems that things just are.

 

[Ungomma]

No. I know nothing about whys. It seems that things just are.

Amen to that.

I tempered my interest in causes and reasons a couple of years ago. Attempts to rationalize the arational are senseless. I'd prefer myself to be a fragmented personality - without a unifying narrative whys offer.

I do care for why my internet connection glitches though.

 

[Words]

No. I know nothing about whys. It seems that things just are.

And you accept it absent of the urge for resistance?

 

[AlisaD]

And you accept it absent of the urge for resistance?

On a good day - yes.

 

[telepathink]

 

[Minuend]

I don't seem to have a lot of choice. Speaking is a lot worse then writting, and do you know any people (I mean alive ones) who have something to say and would be ready to writte a proper letter, take it to the post office, send it and then wait for a reply for a week? If you do, please send me their contact details, I'd love to get to know them.

I like letterz.

I believe you can to a certain extent. You can choose who to attach yourself to by staying with them, you can choose what by reinforcing it, and you can continue the determinism by not questioning. You can also fool your preferences.

Oh, I think we are more bound than that. I don't think we so freely choose. If we could control ourselves so, we could just decide that "I'm not depressed"- and so it be. A person with abusive parents would be able to not care what they think, disregard them. But still a great deal would feel guilty, blame themselves, still be attached.

The human psyche doesn't work so easily that you can turn off various attachments at any time. Sure you could eventually detach from controlling parents, I'm just saying it's not that easy, and so we will often be attached without realizing. Getting away might be a painful procedure, not an easy one.

Do you know why you like this? Do you know why you want to feel human?

I figure it has something to do with humans being programmed for social life, we're pack animals.

I think someone has to describe the mind of the detached person for me. I imagine someone who is distant and unable to care, disconnected from the world around them, unable to feel pleasure or pain.

Though, that isn't really possible for the average human.

Also, is the point of detachment to avoid pain only?

Saying that happiness is something one just decides.. I don't agree. We are sometimes hurt by incidents or people. Fortunately. We learn, we somewhat adjust to each other so that we may get along, we are able to see a new perspective on things. Pain is necessary. Some days we should allow ourselves to feel sorry for ourselves, it gets things out of the system quicker.

And as for the topic, (Minuend nevir writes a first post in a thread without referring to topic!), a lot of things make me happy. Music, being outside, being surprised (well, it depends on the surprise), a good book, videogames..

 

[Deleted member 1424]

Well of late there's someone who with a handful of words can pierce my core; putting my heart and mind in an effusive daze.

yeah......

 

[AlisaD]

I like letterz.

Would you write to me?