vegetarianism / veganism versus meat eating

[rattymat]

I have couple simple questions to ask as I would like to discuss this topic.

1. Are you a vegetarian / vegan, or do you eat meat?
2. What are your reasons to support whichever one you are?

That's it.

I'd appreciate all responses.

(I was not sure which sub-forum to post in, as neither of them seemed that suiting, but I suppose it could be a matter of life philosophies / ideologies?)
​

 

[DelusiveNinja]

1. I eat meat and sometimes vegetables.
2. The reason I do this is because I do not have control over what my mother cooks and if I complain about my diet she will take it the wrong way, get offended, and stop buying food all together, which can lead to my death through starvation and hers because of high blood pressure and stress, caused by my siblings crying that they are hungry.

 

[rattymat]

1. I eat meat and sometimes vegetables.
2. The reason I do this is because I do not have control over what my mother cooks and if I complain about my diet she will take it the wrong way, get offended, and stop buying food all together, which can lead to my death through starvation and hers because of high blood pressure and stress, caused by my siblings crying that they are hungry.

Oh, would your mother really do that? I find it hard to imagine that someone would actually do that. I can understand though feeling afraid of being assertive with something like this and seeming like you do not appreciate what they give to you, but it seems possible to at least talk with them about it in a nice way? I do not think this would risk them not buying you food. But.. I at least understand feeling weird about doing it. I do not eat meat and when I stopped I felt pretty awkward of telling my parents about it. They also buy my food, but they do not cook for me at least.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Meat needs to be the luxury food item that it was before. That much is very obvious, the negative consequences of meat consumption are clear cut and scientifically proven and dire, ranging from global to personal.

However, reducing meat consumption needs to be done gradually as it is a cultural thing. But it's quite pathetic that we aren't taking any steps towards it. The first thing that should and can be done instantly is serving vegetarian meals at least twice a week in all forms of institutions, schools, prisons, hospitals etc.
That a vegetarian needs to be boring and bland is a myth. It's just that our food culture has been built around meat being the star of all dishes for a long time.
As vegetarianism grows more common the vegetarian food available grows tastier. This has already happened, just not to the extent that it needs to.

For instance veg-burgers tend to be dry and tasteless, devoid of any umami for the taste receptors to send signals instilling the qualic marvel that even a boring McDonald's patty can.

However make something like this:

http://foodwishes.blogspot.se/2008/11/meaty-mushroom-veggie-burger-least.html

and that issue ceases to be.

Of course nothing can stand up to prime quality beef taste wise or negative impact wise, that's why it should be a luxury food item and not a staple on our diet, all the while throwing some coin n hope into artificially grown meat.

Those are my two cents, I haven't really read much about the subject tho.

 

[GodOfOrder]

I eat meat.

I evolved to eat meat, and I am an omnivore. This is my place in nature as a human. It would be wrong, I think, to deprive my body of what it was built to eat. For health's sake I eat a balanced diet.

 

[DelusiveNinja]

I've done it before and I didn't get the results I hoped for. She is some kind of SF so talking about change will not bring much change even if the reasoning is solid. She threatens to not cook me food or send me to my father's place which is not going to work out for me or him.

(the reason me and my father don't get along is here but it's an unnecessary read and I doubt you will be interested http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=17096)

 

[Cherry Cola]

I eat meat.

I evolved to eat meat, and I am an omnivore. This is my place in nature as a human. It would be wrong, I think, to deprive my body of what it was built to eat. For health's sake I eat a balanced diet.

If you eat meat to the same extent that most people in the western world do you are not eating a natural balanced diet that your body was built for. I don't know the exact number but if you cut down on meat consumption by 75-80% (going by avg consumption) then you'll end up doin it the natural way.

Architect should come here. As I recall this is a subject he has quite some knowledge in.

 

[GodOfOrder]

All I mean to say I'd that cutting it out of my diet completely would seem unhealthy to me. Whether I maintain a western diet is another subject entirely.

 

[rattymat]

Cherrycola, are you a vegetarian or vegan?
Also, I think incremental steps towards not eating meat is a naturally occurring process built-in to the way in which individuals from a collective choose to make dietary changes of not consuming meat. More individuals making this change then slowly changes and deviates from the culture of meat-eating.

 

[Cherry Cola]

All I mean to say I'd that cutting it out of my diet completely would seem unhealthy to me. Whether I maintain a western diet is another subject entirely.

Alright, I wasn't sure when I replied but then I see. Geez I should know that INTP's actually mean what they write in contrast to a lot of other people :P

 

[rattymat]

I eat meat.

I evolved to eat meat, and I am an omnivore. This is my place in nature as a human. It would be wrong, I think, to deprive my body of what it was built to eat. For health's sake I eat a balanced diet.

This is not exactly how evolution works. Past conditions in human evolution made it such that eating meat and vegetables was the optimal diet for survival. Current conditions are such that this is no longer necessary, and it is possible to be perfectly healthy and not consume any meat. Evolution is a matter of adaptation, for the ability to adapt to new conditions is an idea specifically expressed within the theory of evolution. If you do not believe that it is perfectly healthy to have a meatless diet though I can find articles for you. All of the nutrients contained within meat are easily accessible in many other food sources. Additionally, many foods with meat are actually really unhealthy, so health is not that relevant to eating meat or not (E.G. every fast food restaurant).

 

[Cherry Cola]

There's the psychological side of it to though. From that point of view consuming meat to a certain is still natural :O

 

[Nezaros]

I eat food. I don't really differentiate between meat and vegetables as long as it's still good. Although, I actually don't think I eat a whole lot of meat, more seafood. But I am against the idea of being vegetarian. It's fine if one is just trying to eat healthier, but in that case I'd suspect it would be only a temporary dietary choice.

Now, people who abstain from meat because they don't want to kill animals just piss me off. Vegans are even worse. It's denial of your own biology for... what, you think you're going to save a few cows?

 

[Architect]

Vegan. For health reasons with the lack of causing death being a bonus.

All I mean to say I'd that cutting it out of my diet completely would seem unhealthy to me. Whether I maintain a western diet is another subject entirely.

Actually humans are evolved from primates, who aren't omnivores, rather than a true omnivore like the ursinus family. Some primates are frutarians, the others are opportunistic meat eaters with 2% or less meat in their diet. People often have a romantic view of our evolution from the cave dwellers, but our digestion and food gathering capabilities evolved long before that.

Physiologically there are many traits, I can dig up the research on this, having to do with the length of the gut, amalayse producers, jaw strength, aggressiveness (primates run rather than fight), claws/teeth etc. Sum it all up and we come out as vegetarians.

Of course that doesn't mean we can't live a long life as an omnivore, but we're just not optimally designed for it.

 

[Duxwing]

Vegan. For health reasons with the lack of causing death being a bonus.



Actually humans are evolved from primates, who aren't omnivores, rather than a true omnivore like the ursinus family. Some primates are frutarians, the others are opportunistic meat eaters with 2% or less meat in their diet. People often have a romantic view of our evolution from the cave dwellers, but our digestion and food gathering capabilities evolved long before that.

Physiologically there are many traits, I can dig up the research on this, having to do with the length of the gut, amalayse producers, jaw strength, aggressiveness (primates run rather than fight), claws/teeth etc. Sum it all up and we come out as vegetarians.

Of course that doesn't mean we can't live a long life as an omnivore, but we're just not optimally designed for it.

Hm, in that case, vegetarianism seems more appealing.

-Duxwing

 

[Ink]

I eat meat because I want to build muscle and need protein. I'm pretty sure there's no good protein sources while eating vegan, perhaps I am wrong?

 

[Mr Write]

Funny; I just took a picture of my groceries this morning.

Spoiler

For nutrition; not morality. I'm still wondering how to best use up all my unspent animal cruelty points.

 

[Architect]

Hm, in that case, vegetarianism seems more appealing

Worse for your health unfortunately. Eating the dairy foods of another animal isn't practiced anywhere in the animal kingdom except in humans. Cow milk is designed to turn a small animal into a really big animal, and it's deadly for humans. You'd be better off being a meat eater (but no dairy) or a vegan.

I eat meat because I want to build muscle and need protein. I'm pretty sure there's no good protein sources while eating vegan, perhaps I am wrong?

Yup. There are plenty of vegan body builders. The professionals get most of their protein from vegetable sources (soybeans) anyhow because it's without the fat, and you don't want any fat on your body if you want to show off those curves.

You need very little protein at any rate and don't want that much, even when body building. The idea that we need dietary protein has long roots tracing back to the history of money. But that's another story.

 

[Ink]

You need very little protein at any rate and don't want that much, even when body building. The idea that we need dietary protein has long roots tracing back to the history of money. But that's another story.

I find that hard to believe to be honest just from personal experience, but how much protein are you talking about?

 

[Alex_]

Although I try to avoid meat consumption for health reasons (any meat, not only beef) I end up eating it pretty often since I don't know how to cook nor have the moneys to eat out, and frozen pizza/lasagna either has meet or is only cheese. I feel bad for the fact that harmless animals are killed for a rather futile reason -- there are other, non-sentient things to eat. Becoming a vegetarian is on the to-do list (perhaps with an exception for fish, because of the Omega 3 and such).

 

[redbaron]

I eat meat about twice a week. Steak, grilled chicken breast or fish. Assuming I eat 3 meals a day, that makes 2/21 meals that I eat orientated around meat. Although recently it's been a little more, I sometimes go without meat for a week.

My diet is basically greek yoghurt, eggs, nuts, fruits, vegetables, grains. As Cherry Cola has said, there's a plethora of tasty vegetarian meals available...the ridiculous meat fetish that society has developed is awful.

I do this for both personal health and external reasons...I don't have a problem with people eating meat - in proportion. Most people I know eat meat every single day of the week, or just about.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Cherrycola, are you a vegetarian or vegan?
Also, I think incremental steps towards not eating meat is a naturally occurring process built-in to the way in which individuals from a collective choose to make dietary changes of not consuming meat. More individuals making this change then slowly changes and deviates from the culture of meat-eating.

Nah I'm not. Last year I've been eating a lot more veggie foods though and I think I'm gonna go vegan soon.

The problem for me is that I like cooking, especially for other people. Other people are not vegans however.

 

[Chad]

I eat meat about twice a week. Steak, grilled chicken breast or fish. Assuming I eat 3 meals a day, that makes 2/21 meals that I eat orientated around meat. Although recently it's been a little more, I sometimes go without meat for a week.

My diet is basically greek yoghurt, eggs, nuts, fruits, vegetables, grains. As Cherry Cola has said, there's a plethora of tasty vegetarian meals available...the ridiculous meat fetish that society has developed is awful.

I do this for both personal health and external reasons...I don't have a problem with people eating meat - in proportion. Most people I know eat meat every single day of the week, or just about.

I don't believe that eggs are vegetarian and defiantly not vegan.

Personally I am an omnivore. I am healthy with very no dietary related illnesses in my history. I don't eat as much meat as the average westerner. Fruit, Pasta and cheese are a the largest staple in my diet.

I believe you can live a long healthy life and be an omnivore as long you are willing to adjust your diet for any particular health issues you may have.

That is just my opinion. There are positive health benefits to eating meat in moderation. Such as Omaga-3 in fish and a good source protein.

 

[Thurlor]

I often forget to even eat or can't be bothered with food preparation so I'm a bit under-weight and unhealthy.

I eat very little fruit or vegetables as I usually can't stand the taste and/or texture.

I eat meat about every second or third day.

Most of my diet consists of carbohydrates (pasta, potatoes, rice, grain, etc).

If my not eating meat would result in less animals being killed I would quit. However, one person can't have a large enough impact, and whatever meat isn't consumed is thrown out which seems like a real waste of the animals life (to me). I eagerly await the time when we can produce vat-grown meat.

I think a good portion of my energy requirement each day come from the 10+ cups of coffee I drink each day (1/3 a cup of milk and two sugars for each cup).

I don't really care what other people eat (as long as the animal isn't endangered or overly intelligent) and I certainly don't hate those that have a different diet from mine.

I really dislike the argument that being a vegan/vegetarian is denying our own biology. We deny our biology in regards to many things. Most men deny their biology by not going around humping everything in sight.

Lastly, my youngest brother seriously annoys me with his anti vegan/vegetarian stance as it is all based on his belief that every single vegan/vegetarian guy he has ever been in a relationship with is 'small and scrawny'.

 

[rattymat]

I often forget to even eat or can't be bothered with food preparation so I'm a bit under-weight and unhealthy.

I eat very little fruit or vegetables as I usually can't stand the taste and/or texture.

I eat meat about every second or third day.

Most of my diet consists of carbohydrates (pasta, potatoes, rice, grain, etc).

If my not eating meat would result in less animals being killed I would quit. However, one person can't have a large enough impact, and whatever meat isn't consumed is thrown out which seems like a real waste of the animals life (to me). I eagerly await the time when we can produce vat-grown meat.

I think a good portion of my energy requirement each day come from the 10+ cups of coffee I drink each day (1/3 a cup of milk and two sugars for each cup).

I don't really care what other people eat (as long as the animal isn't endangered or overly intelligent) and I certainly don't hate those that have a different diet from mine.

I really dislike the argument that being a vegan/vegetarian is denying our own biology. We deny our biology in regards to many things. Most men deny their biology by not going around humping everything in sight.

Lastly, my youngest brother seriously annoys me with his anti vegan/vegetarian stance as it is all based on his belief that every single vegan/vegetarian guy he has ever been in a relationship with is 'small and scrawny'.

Yeah it is true that the argument against vegan/vegetarians with regards to it going against our biology is really false. It is not at all unhealthy, and yeah, I am not really sure what it even means for something to go against our biology because it is unnatural? By that assumption modern society in general is pretty 'unnatural.' (I am not even sure what that really means?)

Also, I really understand feeling like the amount of meat you personally eat would not make any difference, and that this meat would just be wasted. However, I think you actually do make a difference even if it seems really small. The process towards a society that does not eat any meat will take a long time as a whole, but the whole is comprised of individuals personally making the choice of what to eat. In fact the only way to cause major changes is by the effects made by individual's choices, because the whole is a aggregation of individuals.
While it seems like perhaps the amount you do not eat of meat would simply go to waste, I would consider the degree to which companies in industry are concerned with profit. They certainly do not want to waste their money, so they make careful calculations to budget how much they produce. It is a basic kind of logic, perhaps - and maybe it seems they could not be as precise as the difference of one individual, but... when you consider they you are one of thousands, and that every single human within those thousands is but one human, you begin to recognize the power of your self.

I just searched and found this pretty quickly, not sure how accurate it is but I'll just go by it for example:
http://www.greenlivingtips.com/articles/meat-consumption-statistics.html

So for Australians, this totals to like 109 kg per year of meat consumption. I don't know how much it costs for meat there, and this price probably fluctuates but for argument I will just assume it costs something like $10/kg. If you eat an average amount of meat at a moderate price, I'll just round to $1000 per year as how much you might be spending on meat. That seems like a somewhat low estimate even. Imagine now if you went 5 years without eating meat? You would withhold $5000 from a meat producer. I know in the context of large businesses that is not a lot, but at least it is a substantial amount that may not be completely ignored. Think of going 50 years without meat, or the rest of your life. You might avoid giving $50,000 to meat producers. Does that not seem like a substantial amount of money, perhaps enough to influence their ability to continue production at the same scale they would have if you had eaten meat?

Just think now about how many humans in the world now are vegetarians and vegans... as a whole they are making a pretty big difference, even if it is not a complete change, or anywhere near that even. With time and more individuals making personal changes a complete change is made possible.

You could think of it this way: to buy or not buy is like casting a vote, only economically. If there was a vote for some kind of law, or just a survey even to determine what percentage of people would prefer that animals stop being killed, would you want to check yes on it? If you would check yes, that is basically equivalent to buying other food that meat. Deciding to not eat meat is like voting with your money against animals being killed - except it's more potent than political voting, because your group will have some effect even if they are not the majority.

 

[Thurlor]

@rattymat

In principle I agree. Maybe even in practice. My major concern is that I have seen the amount of meat thrown away by my local supermarket. All of that meat that is un-eaten equates to animals being needlessly slaughtered. If they are going to die I'd prefer they die for a purpose (food, leather, etc).

Things would be different if I was part of a group or community effort so that we all abstained from meat consumption, but this is not so (and I don't have the drive to make it so).

I have no particular attachment to eating meat. I love bacon and ham, yet after seeing first-hand the cruelty of Australian pig farming methods I have since given up eating them. The same goes for eggs from caged hens and wool from sheep farmers who make use of a technique known as mulesing.

If I were to be shown that Australian cattle farming is as cruel as pig farming I would feel obligated to give up beef as well.

 

[Hadoblado]

I'm a vegetarian between meals

Ethically I support veganism, however I don't practice it because quite simply I'm too poor to be able to support that lifestyle, and already have difficulty getting all the nutrients I need. I also don't overly care. Its something I'd like to do once I'm well off.

Also, vegans and vegetarians absolutely suck as people. Obviously there are exceptions, but the chances of me getting along with someone are severely reduced if they are having their moral superiority fueled by something they don't do.

 

[Thurlor]

Obviously there are exceptions, but the chances of me getting along with someone are severely reduced if they are having their moral superiority fueled by something they don't do.

How does this work? Do you find it hard to get along with people who feel morally superior because they DON'T murder, rape or steal?

 

[Hadoblado]

Why would you feel good about NOT being a pedophile?

Feeling good is the incorrect response. I can understand if they felt outrage that other people are so selfish that they would eat another organism because they are too lazy to figure out how to cook vego, or because meat tastes so good. But why on Earth would you feel good that you are doing the hard yards to be moral while the non-cooperation of others basically renders your sacrifice meaningless? Why get a kick out of how shit you perceive other people to be?

 

[redbaron]

How does this work? Do you find it hard to get along with people who feel morally superior because they DON'T murder, rape or steal?

Worst. Analogy. Ever.

Unless he's a murderer, rapist or a thief, probably not - because they aren't going to be claiming moral superiority over him if he doesn't do any of those things, now are they?

 

[redbaron]

Why would you feel good about NOT being a pedophile?

Feeling good is the incorrect response. I can understand if they felt outrage that other people are so selfish that they would eat another organism because they are too lazy to figure out how to cook vego, or because meat tastes so good. But why on Earth would you feel good that you are doing the hard yards to be moral while the non-cooperation of others basically renders your sacrifice meaningless? Why get a kick out of how shit you perceive other people to be?

More than this, I think is that they are often so ridiculous about their veganism/vegetarianism.

It's like if they receive a dish with meat in it - the animal is already slain and used, whether they eat it or not has no bearing on the matter on any scale. Yet they still refuse to eat it and act like a pompous turd.

Or when they feel the need to constantly comment on the diets of other people, viewing them as morally inferior for eating meat - and garnering some sort of pathetic sense of self-worth in the process.

Basically what Hado has said, why get a kick out of how shit you perceive other people to be?

I think he generalized too much...but I can see his point.

 

[Hadoblado]

I think we are emphasising different points.

You take issue with their statement making and mindless deontology.

I emphasise that if they truly thought they had grounds for moral superiority, outrage, rather than smugness, is the appropriate response.

 

[Thurlor]

I'll start off by stating I have no emotional investment in this discussion. Nor am I condemning those that eat meat (I do myself).


@Hadoblado

You never said anything about good. You specifically used the term 'morally superior'. Sorry if this is 'nit-picking' but I wouldn't have even raised the question if you had actually used the word good.

I can understand if they felt outrage that other people are so selfish that they would eat another organism because they are too lazy to figure out how to cook vego, or because meat tastes so good.

Could you understand that other people may feel outrage because some people 'don't overly care'?

Why get a kick out of how shit you perceive other people to be?

Maybe people get a kick out of how good they perceive themselves to be.

 

[Thurlor]

@redbaron

I don't think it was the worst analogy ever.

Person A is 'morally inferior' because they kill.
Is person B not 'morally superior' because they didn't kill?? Are they morally neutral?

It's like if they receive a dish with meat in it - the animal is already slain and used, whether they eat it or not has no bearing on the matter on any scale. Yet they still refuse to eat it and act like a pompous turd.

This statement can be tweaked slightly to mean human flesh without changing any of the logical implications. Would a person have a right to refuse eating a person and 'act like a pompous turd'? The person is already slain and used, whether they eat it or not has no bearing on the matter on any scale.

Or when they feel the need to constantly comment on the diets of other people, viewing them as morally inferior for eating meat - and garnering some sort of pathetic sense of self-worth in the process.

I'm not sure what your experiences are but I have only ever met vegans/vegetarians who feel morally superior because they are not responsible for the killing of animals.

 

[Thurlor]

@Everybody

Sorry if I seem to do a lot of 'nitpicking'.

 

[ShameFace]

I have couple simple questions to ask as I would like to discuss this topic.​

1. Are you a vegetarian / vegan, or do you eat meat?
2. What are your reasons to support whichever one you are?​

I'm an omnivore.

I see no reason to abstain from eating meat. Either from a health or ethical perspective. I make no distinction between plant life and animal protein.

 

[ShameFace]

Yup. There are plenty of vegan body builders. The professionals get most of their protein from vegetable sources (soybeans) anyhow because it's without the fat, and you don't want any fat on your body .

I don't know of any vegan bodybuilders. Not that I follow it too closely, but I only know of one old school bodybuilder who was a vegetarian (Bill Pearl)
Professional bodybuilders get most of their muscle from synthetic testosterone and Human Growth Hormone.
And am I actually reading correctly that you think eating dietary fat is how people get fat?
The idea of Soy as being nutritious, is actually based on politics more than protein consumption is.

 

[Proletar]

Actually humans are evolved from primates, who aren't omnivores, rather than a true omnivore like the ursinus family. Some primates are frutarians, the others are opportunistic meat eaters with 2% or less meat in their diet. People often have a romantic view of our evolution from the cave dwellers, but our digestion and food gathering capabilities evolved long before that.

Physiologically there are many traits, I can dig up the research on this, having to do with the length of the gut, amalayse producers, jaw strength, aggressiveness (primates run rather than fight), claws/teeth etc. Sum it all up and we come out as vegetarians

Wrong.

http://www.scienceofhealthindex.com/man_wolf_sheep.html


Unless wolfes are also vegetarians by nature?

 

[ShameFace]

if we're meant to be vegetarian then why can't humans digest cellulose? Isnt our appendix a remnant of our raw meat eating ancestors? Whats unethical about killing an animal for food? Would that animal otherwise live forever in the wild? And where does one draw the line when it comes to determing what 'life' should be held sacred? Plants are living organisms, but its ok to eat them because they dont have eyeballs or because they havent been personified in Disney movies? What about bacteria? Or fungus like mushroom?

 

[Architect]

if we're meant to be vegetarian then why can't humans digest cellulose?

No plant eaters digest cellulose AFAIK. Ruminants (cows) do it via bacteria and a series of stomachs. Interestingly leaf cutter ants use the bacteria trick too.

The key point is "amalyse producers" which is necessary to digest starch. This was necessary for our primate ancestors to evolve from being fruitarians and move beyond the equator.

Isnt our appendix a remnant of our raw meat eating ancestors?

No, actually I believe researchers have fairly recently discovered that it's used as a storage for healthy bacteria for the gut.

Whats unethical about killing an animal for food?

When it causes needless pain (factory farming is a horror that meat eaters choose to ignore) and when it's not only unnecessary, but is causing widespread health issues due to overconsumption. If we had evolved from carnivores, like Lions, then it would be necessary. Presumably we'd treat our meat sources better too.

Would that animal otherwise live forever in the wild?

Meat animals aren't comparable to wild animals, they're odd creatures bred for a purpose. They can't survive on their own.

And where does one draw the line when it comes to determing what 'life' should be held sacred? Plants are living organisms, but its ok to eat them because they dont have eyeballs or because they havent been personified in Disney movies? What about bacteria? Or fungus like mushroom?

Ruductio ad absurdum; a mushroom is not a mammal.

My definition is that possessing a neocortex, and therefore the ability to learn and presumably higher consciousness should earn one the right.

 

[Thurlor]

@ ShameFace

Whats unethical about killing an animal for food? Would that animal otherwise live forever in the wild?

Does that same logic apply to people? If not, why?

 

[ShameFace]

@ ShameFace



Does that same logic apply to people? If not, why?

usually not. But since I posed my questions first, I only think its fair for you to answer me first. So again, why is it unethical to kill an animal for food? You're free to answer the rest of my questions as wel.

 

[Pyropyro]

1. I eat meat

2. If pressed for time, I will eat in a fast food chain. However, I would really prefer home cooked meals (there are diners here that specialize on these dishes) which is mostly vegetables with some fish or meat in it. Besides, they're cheap enough that I can afford to buy a banana to compliment my meal. An all meat meal is usually reserved for celebrations and the like.

 

[doncarlzone]

I think this is one major issue that future generations will judge us on. Teachers will have to explain to kids why we thought it was ethical to raise pigs in small boxes just to slaughter them, not because we were in need of food but because of human ignorance and greed. Slaughtering cute dogs the same way would cause an outrage, while there is absolutely no difference morally between killing a dog and a pig.

The moment we accept that it is possible to live a healthy and rich life without meat, we also accept that we kill other animals for pure pleasure. We can choose to keep a blind eye to this, which I am not proud to admit I currently am, but then we also just have to accept that we are being willfully ignorant.

 

[Valentas]

1. Are you a vegetarian / vegan, or do you eat meat?
I eat meat very rarely. I abide the laws published in Fuhrman's book on healthy living. So I'm ... lol a human who eats to live.

2. What are your reasons to support whichever one you are?
Vegetarians are in two bunches: first one is radical people who would kill you for mentioning that you ate oyster today. And there is another one(smart ones) who read science, experiment, find that it works and stay on this diet. They don't give a crap about killing animals because it does not make sense to even talk about this. Whole natural world kill each other, and here is a poor human being moaning about animal rights. In other words, smart bunch knows how the world works and have no interest in fighting a war which is talking and arguing with crazy people.

 

[ShameFace]

And there is another one(smart ones) who read science, experiment, find that it works and stay on this diet. They don't give a crap about killing animals because it does not make sense to even talk about this. Whole natural world kill each other, and here is a poor human being moaning about animal rights. In other words, smart bunch knows how the world works and have no interest in fighting a war which is talking and arguing with crazy people.

Agree except that there is no data to suggest that vegetarians/vegan diet are superior to eating meat. The studies that much such claims are always using processed, factory farmed meat in their studies. Not making a distinction between different qualities of meat. To them, its all just meat.
People on the vegan/vegetarian side think eating meat is just some indulgence that people do for fun. It's not. There are a lot of health benefits to eating high quality, grass fed animal protein. Believe me, I aint eating sardines for fun. Its for the EFA's and other stuff that simply cannot be found in plant foods (which I also eat and enjoy)

 

[Lot]

Yay for rewriting a post!

I am an omnivore. But recently I've been mostly eating rice, beans, an potatoes.

I like the taste of meat and my world view tells me it's ok to eat any animal. Although, I do think humans were created vegan, but due to the nature of the curse dietary needs have changed. Animals are a very easy source of protein and fat. And in some parts of the world through most of history, some micro-nutrients were next to impossible to get apart from meat.

I don't have any real issue with herbivores. When I was younger I hated them, though. I knew a vegan family that almost had their kids taken away for feeding them a poor diet. Also I knew a ton of militant vegetarians. I rebelled against them, and still have a bit of a bitter root when I hear or read about vegetarian diets. At this point, I believe there are benefits to both omnies and herbeis diets. It depends on one's genetics, health needs, economic station, and location on earth. I don't think any diet will make you live forever. Some people live full long life regardless of what they eat, and others just aren't built/meant to live long.

(There should be a smiley that has a hand throwing two pennies.)

 

[Smooch]

I eat meat because it tastes good.
I also eat veggies because they taste good...if prepared right.
I do not like raw kale, but rather prefer it sauteed or pan fried...whatever you want to call it, that's pretty good.

I try not to eat processed meat but unprocessed is a lot more expensive so it ends up happening.

In a pan or wok, saute some onion, garlic, and coconut oil, and any mixed veggies you like such as broccoli, cherry tomatoes, etc. Add some cabbage and simmer in vegetable broth for about 10 minutes.

Make barley with coconut milk instead of water.

Serve together.

SO GOOD. Wish I had a picture.

 

[Lane]

I'm a pescatarian because my family travels a lot and being a vegetarian is a great way to politely decline foreign mystery meat.

 

[Wolf18]

I eat meat. I like meat. I do not hunt. My reasoning: If I did not eat meat, I would not be saving any animals; they would still be killed so that someone else could eat them. Also, meat has protein and other nutrients that humans need.

SW