University is just too fucking hard

[pjoa09]

I am in my second year, first trimester. CS degree. Took Data Structures, Discrete Math, Calculus, and some other useless shit classes.

I am pretty sure I am going to get an F in Data Structures. I dropped Calculus. I just don't know why it's so fucking hard.

I feel retarded.

It's come to the point where I am starting to think that I got the short end of the stick when it comes to intelligence.

Like. I am dumb.

It's just not fun trying hard and then having it all go to shit.

YEE /rant.

Bloody fucking hell.

I spent a whole day trying to write a 7 lined function. Yeah there was a massive bunch of classes but fuck.

oh and if y'all got advice on becoming better at absorbing concepts at the fucking spot. Let me know.

Maybe I'll just code all holiday or something.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I think we put too much emphasis on finishing in 4 years. Dragging it out does increase the costs of attending college but you're also gambling with your (parent's, benefactor's etc) money if you take a bunch of classes that you aren't certain you can handle at one time. Less classes = greater concentration plain and simple.

If your GPA hasn't been decimated, and you still have college funds, then don't give up.

 

[Minuend]

Have you ever done an assessment with a psychologist or so? You don't strike me as entirely neurotypical.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

I think we put too much emphasis on finishing in 4 years. Dragging it out does increase the costs of attending college but you're also gambling with your (parent's, benefactor's etc) money if you take a bunch of classes that you aren't certain you can handle at one time. Less classes = greater concentration plain and simple.

This is some really good advice. If you are struggling simply reduce your work load. For half of my bachelors degree I was doing 50% to 100% more courses each semester than required. By the end of my degree I was worn out so I had to reduce my course load down to 2 subjects instead of the previous 6 to 8.

 

[Vrecknidj]

If your GPA hasn't been decimated, and you still have college funds, then don't give up.

Yes. This.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Yes what has been said. Otherwise I dunno. Study during the christmas holiday, try to tell yourself it wont be like this forever or something.

 

[EditorOne]

What has been said about a lighter load: It's a variation on my usual solution to an overwhelmingly huge project, slice it into smaller pieces and celebrate completion of the segments rather than focusing on how the ultimate goal is still over the horizon.

You're not retarded. You're not even not intelligent. Maybe look into the psychologist thing to see about ? focusing your ability to focus? or the amount of time you can concentrate?

Other than that: If the learning, the ability to grasp and keep facts and concepts, is eluding you, do a quick Web search on how people learn. Something that seems odd, like reading text out loud after reading it silently, might be the smack-your-forehead thing that gets it done for you.

Don't give up yet. Or ever, for that matter. Regroup, reassess, change plans, yes, just don't give up on university yet.

 

[dark+matters]

Hi pjoa09,

I started a thread in this section about my own problems in college (thank you for responding, by the way)! I had to drop three of six classes before I started transforming my F's in my pre-calc classes into A's for this last round of tests. Although it might be too late to turn my overall grade around, I can always retake any classes I fail, because it's important to me to cement these concepts in my mind. Learning about computer science is probably very important to you! I wouldn't know for certain, but I bet that in the long run it will be worth it to you to retake any classes that need retaking- maybe with some help from personal tutors, etc. the next time around. I still have hope for learning my mathish stuff, and so should you! I know that when I look back on what a struggle it was to learn some of this, I will totally think it was worth it.

Personally, I need to invest more time and effort in my learning than the others in my classes need (or want) to. I don't have the same energy levels as most of my classmates, for one thing, and I'm also never satisfied with the material I'm given- I always want something beyond it. I think this is an INP thing. These traits will not lead to the timely completion of assignments or a quick mastery of the material. I think it's important for INs in general to think about how they think and feel, because in my opinion, most colleges are not designed in a way that allows for each of the various personality types to thrive without a little extra effort to tailor the system to their needs.

Also, STEM in general isn't taught very well. If I didn't enjoy reading books and watching short videos about math, physics and chemistry, and only had college classroom experiences with these subjects, I would definitely think these subjects were pointless and incomprehensible. They just aren't subjects that are taught as effectively as they could be. At the college I transferred to, things are definitely geared toward E's and J's. There are almost no night or online classes. It's mostly face-to-face, overcrowded morning classes with lectures mostly involving by-rote methods of learning, and timed testing.

I sat down with each of my professors to talk about my grades and what I need to do in order to succeed, and doing this directed me to a lot of resources I hadn't known about that help me out a great deal as a rather extreme introvert. I didn't realize that the college I transferred to had a program which would allow me to take my tests alone in a small, dark room at times of my choosing and at (mostly) my own pace. Your teachers might be able to let you know if your university has some similarly helpful options for you as well. Personally, I cannot learn mathematics in a loud, distracting environment, nor can I learn them without either a one-on-one tutor to answer the 700 questions that inevitably come up, or an extremely well-hyperlinked online program.

I've also realized something by noting how I score absurdly well on most critical reading tests, yet do somewhat poorly in my English classes. There is a definite J-bias in college and an unspoken, standardized style of communicating what you've learned in academia- a style that I don't yet have the hang of, and don't necessarily subscribe to in the first place. Learning things in a way that gets good grades isn't a matter of being smart or dumb. It's not mastering the material that counts- it's mastering the teachers and learning to tolerate the demands of the system- especially as less well-understood personality types.

That's just two of my cents as someone who's also really, really struggling to learn and adapt to college at the moment.

 

[Analyzer]

Have you considered that CS might not be something you are actually interested in?

 

[pjoa09]

Have you ever done an assessment with a psychologist or so? You don't strike me as entirely neurotypical.

How? Well I have a psychiatrist. I am diagnosed with ADD and I take ritalin.

Doesn't feel like it does enough.

 

[pjoa09]

Have you considered that CS might not be something you are actually interested in?

Nah, CS was the only reason why I quit my job of 4 years at what is now technically my own company.

If this doesn't work out there's just the shameful walk backwards. I can't walk back! Not until I have explored all these things I wanted to know.

They are interesting but I just don't know why is it so goddamn difficult for me.

It feels like I need to be locked up without the internet, a massive stack of text books, and a text editor for days on end without eating to attain the same results someone else would. That someone else would be chilling with their friends and playing video games.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

It feels like I need to be locked up without the internet, a massive stack of text books, and a text editor for days on end without eating to attain the same results someone else would.

Being locked up with textbooks and not doing anything fun was my bachelors degree experience.

That someone else would be chilling with their friends and playing video games.

The main reason why other people find university to be easy is that they don't care about their grades and they cheat.

 

[pjoa09]

Being locked up with textbooks and not doing anything fun was my bachelors degree experience.



The main reason why other people find university to be easy is that they don't care about their grades and they cheat.

Or are geniuses. Like seriously. Some people. Just born good.

So... I should be aiming for that sort of lifestyle?

Like a very rigid set up?

I don't mind that set up but sometimes I just feel dumb.

 

[Architect]

Your reaction is normal.

I was a music major and would have nothing to do with science. It was too dirty you see. Anyhow I realized I was wrong and needed and wanted to learn Physics so switched majors. At the time I had flunked Algebra 3 times (I still haven't passed it). So I jump into Trig at the local JC and enroll in a Physics program.

Oh my god ... I remember sitting in a library trying to get a concept and literally wanting to bash my head against the concert floor until I cracked my skull. It was hard, harder than CS if you can believe it but it was unbelievably hard! Well that's what I thought until I got to Grad school where it got 10X harder. And I felt dumb too, especially next to the guys who went to my school because they didn't make it into Princeton (grad school was the Ivy League next best). They had done physics at their mothers breast. But you know, I was there too, and just as smart, but not always as fast (INTJ are fast thinkers, INTP's are slower).

The problem isn't the material - you can learn that - it's the pace. It's the speed that makes it hard. So don't feel bad about your intelligence, you have plenty of that having made it that far, it's just that your not as fast as you could be. That's what they're teaching you.

On to advice ... generally I wouldn't recommend taking it too much slower, in my experience that doesn't work out too well. Four years stretches into five, into six and then people just don't finish. But the F is problematic, even more problematic is dropping Calculus. In all STEM the math is the core curricula that you need to keep going. But since you've already dropped it you have to step up and conquer Data Structures.

And at the risk of pissing you off even more, you know it's not that hard. You can do it, and it'll be one of the most important classes you take. Soon you'll have Data Structures in your DNA, you'll be using them every day. Keep at it, every moment you have and you'll succeed. Maybe it sounds trite but you have to have a backbone with this stuff, because when you have real world projects after school it's 100X harder.

 

[Architect]

It also might help if you tell us specifically what is causing the trouble, unless you just need to rant. INTP's are capable of great concentration, but I've found that it isn't true when they're directed to do something. If there's something we need to do our concentration evaporates, and we easily get distracted. If that's the case there are techniques you can use to help. My day is fueled by tea and classical music on headphones, for example. It seems to feed the body (Si) and soul (Ne & Fe) which allows the cappy (Ti) to soldier on without distraction from the peanut gallery.

 

[crippli]

Have you tried using various methods for memory help? Classes where written material is allowed as help, or advanced calculators that have storage?

 

[Minuend]

How? Well I have a psychiatrist. I am diagnosed with ADD and I take ritalin.

Doesn't feel like it does enough.

ADD would've been my first guess, actually. When I try to imagine how you behave, feel and think based on what and how you write and react, the image I gets is that of one who could possibly have ADHD or Asperger. Some of it are hard to put in words. But I think one of the things that stand out is your social obliviousness. You don't seem to understand when people are taking advantage of you, or being very apt at understanding how they think or feel.

So yeah, ADHD might be causing trouble for you in terms of studying. If you are as detached from your inner workings as myself, you will find it difficult to pinpoint what the issue is, what the problem is.

I have autism, and when I studied in uni I would go to the study hall every day and sit there reading and attending lectures about 7-8 hours a day. But in the end, I just couldn't keep up. I forgot assignments, had difficulty with group projects and generally struggled with concentration. Having lived with these difficulties always, it becomes difficult to know that, for instance, the concentration issues you are experiencing are worse than what the average person experiences. And you think you are just not trying hard enough. And keep going at the same strategy and eventually start failing because the problem lies elsewhere.

Do you get any, like, extended time for exams for having ADHD? I know in Norway you can get that or be allowed to take exams in an entirely separate room. There might be other benefits that come with the diagnosis as well, I haven't studied since I got mine.

 

[Teax]

Being locked up with textbooks and not doing anything fun was my bachelors degree experience

That should be last resort

They are interesting but I just don't know why is it so goddamn difficult for me.

If you are really interested then your situation sounds to me like a case of incompatible teaching format.

Not every teacher is meant to teach, and even good ones are not compatible to every student. If you don't understand, then the presentation format of your Prof. is incompatible with your own mind.

there are 2 solutions I know of

1. find a better teacher. take your script, look only at the topics, and find other sources. like e.g. other books, authors and youtube videos of lectures from other universities will make you understand the subject in half the time, if the format is compatible with your own N type..... I assume you're an N because this adivce is poison to an S.
   
   There's no point in sitting in a lecture if it's a complete waste of time. in such a (rare) case just skip it (if they don't check for student attendance at your place) and use the time more wisely. learn smart not hard
   .
2. build a practical basis. in CS, all you need to do is start your own related programming hobby project.. implement a simple game or whatever rocks your boat, then keep adding features (like gameplay) that require knowledge in the area you are currently studying. the experience will inevidably enrich your intuitive understanding of the matter.
   
   This will widen the teaching formats that are compatible with you, maybe even make your current Prof compatible.

also here's a related thread.

 

[Pyropyro]

This is actually normal. It's typical for students who were rank one or two in their respective high schools to feel stupid.

I agree with the others. TAKE IT SLOW. Your mind, no matter how brilliant it is, can process only so much data. There's no such thing such as instant mastery over complex things such as your studies.

 

[pjoa09]

It also might help if you tell us specifically what is causing the trouble, unless you just need to rant. INTP's are capable of great concentration, but I've found that it isn't true when they're directed to do something. If there's something we need to do our concentration evaporates, and we easily get distracted. If that's the case there are techniques you can use to help. My day is fueled by tea and classical music on headphones, for example. It seems to feed the body (Si) and soul (Ne & Fe) which allows the cappy (Ti) to soldier on without distraction from the peanut gallery.

Maybe I just need to spend more and more time on it.

I like to keep a decently loaded schedule usually just to keep me moving or I just wind up not wanting to focus anymore.

The problem with Data Structures is that it's a bunch of prescribed structures of code that are designed to achieve run times that whiz kids have taken ages to develop. Then I have to some how abstract that knowledge and apply it to my assignments.

So even if I want to do it my way... a week is just not enough. I wasn't even aware of run time when I was introduced to the course. I just blamed the language if the code ran slowly.

Have you tried using various methods for memory help? Classes where written material is allowed as help, or advanced calculators that have storage?

We have open notes exams and it's still pretty difficult. Writing code with a required run time without an interpreter can be stressful.

The assignments are just godly. That's where my depression comes.

ADD would've been my first guess, actually. When I try to imagine how you behave, feel and think based on what and how you write and react, the image I gets is that of one who could possibly have ADHD or Asperger. Some of it are hard to put in words. But I think one of the things that stand out is your social obliviousness. You don't seem to understand when people are taking advantage of you, or being very apt at understanding how they think or feel.

So yeah, ADHD might be causing trouble for you in terms of studying. If you are as detached from your inner workings as myself, you will find it difficult to pinpoint what the issue is, what the problem is.

I have autism, and when I studied in uni I would go to the study hall every day and sit there reading and attending lectures about 7-8 hours a day. But in the end, I just couldn't keep up. I forgot assignments, had difficulty with group projects and generally struggled with concentration. Having lived with these difficulties always, it becomes difficult to know that, for instance, the concentration issues you are experiencing are worse than what the average person experiences. And you think you are just not trying hard enough. And keep going at the same strategy and eventually start failing because the problem lies elsewhere.

Do you get any, like, extended time for exams for having ADHD? I know in Norway you can get that or be allowed to take exams in an entirely separate room. There might be other benefits that come with the diagnosis as well, I haven't studied since I got mine.

Oh wait.. are you referring to my old posts as well? It is a bit eerie, I do relate to all of that too. I am not officially diagnosed with ADD, things are different here. But even my teachers said so that I would've done better had I had more time.

I find it strange though that you'd say I have ADHD rather than ADD. Others have also mentioned that to me despite the fact that I think I have ADD.

I used to spend up to 16 hours in the university trying to get shit done then my midterms were shit so I gave up sorta.

If you are really interested then your situation sounds to me like a case of incompatible teaching format.

Not every teacher is meant to teach, and even good ones are not compatible to every student. If you don't understand, then the presentation format of your Prof. is incompatible with your own mind.

there are 2 solutions I know of

1. find a better teacher. take your script, look only at the topics, and find other sources. like e.g. other books, authors and youtube videos of lectures from other universities will make you understand the subject in half the time, if the format is compatible with your own N type..... I assume you're an N because this adivce is poison to an S.
   
   There's no point in sitting in a lecture if it's a complete waste of time. in such a (rare) case just skip it (if they don't check for student attendance at your place) and use the time more wisely. learn smart not hard
   .
2. build a practical basis. in CS, all you need to do is start your own related programming hobby project.. implement a simple game or whatever rocks your boat, then keep adding features (like gameplay) that require knowledge in the area you are currently studying. the experience will inevidably enrich your intuitive understanding of the matter.
   
   This will widen the teaching formats that are compatible with you, maybe even make your current Prof compatible.

The teachers are definitely not the problem I have never grasped a concept better with them.


I wish that they'd teach every single math course I have ever had.


But the material is just so difficult to absorb sometimes. I have to say once the assignment is completed it is fair to say that attaining a C+ on the exams should be possible. That's how difficult they are.


I mean, last assignment we used our understanding of binary trees to build functional Huffman trees for encoding and decoding. It felt totally out of the blue, but for those who could piece all the notes together, it's pretty obvious.

 

[Architect]

Maybe I just need to spend more and more time on it.

Or you need to make better use of the time you have. The best students - the best anything - are the ones that make use of the limited time we all have. INTP's are prone to distraction - aux Ne - but if you can truly focus I think you'll see your hit rate go up.

I like to keep a decently loaded schedule usually just to keep me moving or I just wind up not wanting to focus anymore.

Yep, "retirement syndrome". My Dad said that once he retired and had all the time in the world he got half as much done. Again inefficient use of time.

I mean, last assignment we used our understanding of binary trees to build functional Huffman trees for encoding and decoding. It felt totally out of the blue, but for those who could piece all the notes together, it's pretty obvious.

Sounds normal. Again bread and butter to me - because I've been through the courses and used the concepts.

I'm not hearing anything unusual - I doubt you have ADHD other than perhaps a touch of INTP distraction. Look, if STEM wasn't hard then everybody would be doing it.

 

[pjoa09]

Or you need to make better use of the time you have. The best students - the best anything - are the ones that make use of the limited time we all have. INTP's are prone to distraction - aux Ne - but if you can truly focus I think you'll see your hit rate go up.

I know but every time I touch the pages I go off thinking about someone or something in the past and then get tired.

Sounds normal. Again bread and butter to me - because I've been through the courses and used the concepts.

I'm not hearing anything unusual - I doubt you have ADHD other than perhaps a touch of INTP distraction. Look, if STEM wasn't hard then everybody would be doing it.

That is true though. When I started Discrete and Data I started scoffing at every other class. I dropped calculus just because it was just too damn boring to even care about. I'd rather learn graph theory.

Then again, all that is interesting is difficult.

Well, just to make sure, after my smart phone getting lost for the second time in a row, I have decided to own an old brick nokia with a keypad. So far I just wind up gravitated to the computer to browse useless shit.

I guess it's just the nature of the field then. It just requires that much attention.

 

[Teax]

Maybe I just need to spend more and more time on it.
(...)
I guess it's just the nature of the field then. It just requires that much attention.

that is always true, but just spending time is an S-way of learning. I found for an N - you additionally need to adjust your perspective. especially since you also like fast paced schedules. for example:

The problem with Data Structures is that it's a bunch of prescribed structures of code that are designed to achieve run times that whiz kids have taken ages to develop. Then I have to some how abstract that knowledge and apply it to my assignments.

maybe your lack of concentration comes from not wanting to step in someone else's footsteps, but that is an illusion. try to reconsider your perception of the subject:

imagine a snowflake. It's technically a crystal. the geometric structures inside this crystal were not developed by some whiz kids with a microscope, they were discovered. The snowflake looks like it does right now out of necessity which we call physical laws. the same applies to Data Scructures. You are not being forced to learn someone else's code, you are learning the inherit inner sctructure of math. facts about the universe that are hidden from the eye of most casual observers. motivated yet? hehe

Spoiler

The teachers are definitely not the problem I have never grasped a concept better with them.
(...)
But the material is just so difficult to absorb sometimes.

IMHO these 2 quoted sentences contradict each other.

I mean, last assignment we used our understanding of binary trees to build functional Huffman trees for encoding and decoding. It felt totally out of the blue, but for those who could piece all the notes together, it's pretty obvious.

you were one of those who could piece it all together, right?

The main reason why other people find university to be easy is that they don't care about their grades

there's wisdom in this quote.

 

[Minuend]

Oh wait.. are you referring to my old posts as well? It is a bit eerie, I do relate to all of that too. I am not officially diagnosed with ADD, things are different here. But even my teachers said so that I would've done better had I had more time.

I find it strange though that you'd say I have ADHD rather than ADD. Others have also mentioned that to me despite the fact that I think I have ADD.

I used to spend up to 16 hours in the university trying to get shit done then my midterms were shit so I gave up sorta.

I'm referring to the situations you've gotten yourself into previously, yes.

ADD's new name is ADHD PI (primarily inattentive), so I'm not really commenting on whether that's the type of ADHD you have or not.

I'd try to find out what other people with ADHD do to overcome their struggles at uni. If that is the problem, then studying more or harder wont really resolve the issue. I failed at three different unis and am currently unemployed, I would know

There are some adhd forums where they discuss these things.

Also, if you have been on ritalin for some time and notice no effects, there are a few other options you can try out. You should tell the one who treat you.

If it is a matter of having chosen the wrong subjects or using bad study techniques, then you will have to look for change there.

 

[pjoa09]

that is always true, but just spending time is an S-way of learning. I found for an N - you additionally need to adjust your perspective. especially since you also like fast paced schedules. for example:


maybe your lack of concentration comes from not wanting to step in someone else's footsteps, but that is an illusion. try to reconsider your perception of the subject:

imagine a snowflake. It's technically a crystal. the geometric structures inside this crystal were not developed by some whiz kids with a microscope, they were discovered. The snowflake looks like it does right now out of necessity which we call physical laws. the same applies to Data Scructures. You are not being forced to learn someone else's code, you are learning the inherit inner sctructure of math. facts about the universe that are hidden from the eye of most casual observers. motivated yet? hehe

Spoiler

IMHO these 2 quoted sentences contradict each other.


you were one of those who could piece it all together, right?


there's wisdom in this quote.

What I meant was that, sometimes I'd have problems in calculus that I felt I couldn't understand but when the same lecturers for Data Structures and Discrete Math tried to help me with those problems it just became crystal clear in a matter of seconds.

I had never even realized Classes could be used in such a way until Data Structures came about. I always avoided Classes like the plague and I was just baffled when I was doing the assignment that there was still more to know about python! I am not sure if you are familiar with programming but it was just coding beyond my reach. At least initially.

 

[pjoa09]

I'm referring to the situations you've gotten yourself into previously, yes.

ADD's new name is ADHD PI (primarily inattentive), so I'm not really commenting on whether that's the type of ADHD you have or not.

I'd try to find out what other people with ADHD do to overcome their struggles at uni. If that is the problem, then studying more or harder wont really resolve the issue. I failed at three different unis and am currently unemployed, I would know

There are some adhd forums where they discuss these things.

Also, if you have been on ritalin for some time and notice no effects, there are a few other options you can try out. You should tell the one who treat you.

If it is a matter of having chosen the wrong subjects or using bad study techniques, then you will have to look for change there.

Ohh...

Well I had someone once comment that I acted a tad bit hyperactively when I had behaved calmly.

Well that sucks. Can't you get a job without a degree? I had a job until I just decided that life wasn't worth losing sleep over something you never really were passionate about. I felt I had the luxury. But I do actually.


I have tried the other methods they don't work as well. Ritalin is the closest I get to something that allows me to work.

Personally I have felt that somehow when I remove every possible distraction I can finally get to my task. It's painful having to remove myself from everyone. However, that's the only way I can be productive. Even if it's doodling, it's better than browsing for irrelevant seas of information.

I noticed that I had dabbled into a bit of graph theory back when I was working and never realized it. That only came about when I was left at peace. But it was painful just not having a friend to visit even on the weekends.

 

[Teax]

^^^^^yes! that's exactly the kind of perspective change I'm talking about. Now imagine the same thing, but your new current problem being in place of calculus. There's always another angle that will make it crystal-clear in a matter of seconds. But the immediate teachers are rarely aware of this.

and yes, most of this forum probably is

 

[Architect]

Then again, all that is interesting is difficult.

...
I guess it's just the nature of the field then. It just requires that much attention.

Yes, every STEM field is difficult. They were invented by smart NTs after all. You're going through Boot Camp for NTs.

 

[scenefinale]

ADD is more often than not a cop out. Get some discipline, learn to meditate. It sounds like you're waiting for the Ritalin to do the work for you... It's not going to.

The educational system was taken over by J types a long time ago, it's unfortunate but it is currently the case (hopefully MOOCs will change this). Reduce your workload to just a few things, and become masterful with them. If you're really into CS, come up with a project that interests you and push yourself to incorporate the stuff you're supposed to know for the course.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Most of university is boring, a lot of work and really painful. Especially when you piss off some vindictive academics. You just need to figure out a way to put up with it. Then for the rest of your life you will be having dreams about not studying for exams and forgetting to hand in assignments.

 

[Gather_Wanderer]

Calculus really? Huh. If you're taking too many classes I can see why it would be difficult, but undergraduate math on the whole is like learning a language. Its hard or very hard if you don't practice and the opposite if you do. It may not seem like it and I feel for your struggle, but that's the bulk of what it comes down to.

And that's where the busyness of schedule can sometimes hamper you. If you can practice for some small interval at least half the week, actually slogging through problems, its basically an impossibility you won't get significantly better at it.
Same thing with CS, the little experience I have with it. These are things you simply just have to do a lot (not just read and listen to lectures).

People who are really skilled did it a lot in their early years and come off as exceedingly intelligent to those who hadn't. But you can most certainly catch up in fluency, at least to a large degree.

Don't ever think you can't do it though.

 

[Melkor]

Hrm.
I thought University was kinda easy, I certainly never exerted myself save for on the night before my dissertation.
Maybe you need to do a wishy-washy course like I did, with staples of Sociology, Psychology, Law and Politics. :3

(On the other hand I do feel a certain guilt that I never tried something a bit more challenging...)

 

[computerhxr]

It's serendipitous that I got this in my email the same day that I check the forum after a while...

You should read this article:

How I Went From Dropping Out of College to Freedom in Two Years
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sean-..._6264140.html?utm_hp_ref=business&ir=Business

I dropped out of high school and college. I basically failed every class in elementary and spent most of my days at home. College wasn't for me.

Go to a community college and take classes that interest you. Follow your passion in life and get a job doing that. College is overrated and not effective for everyone. I feel like I was tricked into thinking college is effective and justifies going into serious debt just to get a degree.

I ended up dropping out around ~7 units short of a degree. Mostly because of one 2 unit class that was a requirement and prerequisite for the remaining classes. And you couldn't take the remaining classes during the same semester so it would take me a year to do. The first time that I took it, it was in a large 100+ person stadium type class. The teacher spent nearly the entire class time messing around with the $80 digital voting tool that she required for the class so that you get credit. I stopped going after about 5 classes.

The second time that I took it, it was pretty much the same thing except you had to buy a $120 voting device. I just showed up a few times and never bought the fucking thing. Again, she spent the entire class period messing with it.

The third time I took the class it was smaller, and with a different professor. If I failed it a third time, I would have to take it at another university and it was a requirement for the final 6 or 7 units that I needed for the degree. On the first day of class, the professor comes in and talks about how it's a 2 unit class, but it's more like a 6 unit class at a "real" university. I was at a state school and was taking 14 units already. I added the two because I had no other choice since every other class is 4 units and I needed a minimum of 12 units to maintain the student loans. So I was taking 16 units, but really I was taking 20 according to this dickhead. I had a "part-time" job at the time that had me working 45 hours a week to even afford to go.

The class was stupid too. You just learn about SWAT analysis (and like 2 other models) and the final project is to do a SWAT on a real business and write a 20 page report about it. I guess 20 pages, instead of the standard ~5-7 made it "real". I've written 3 page papers that required 7-10 and have gotten full credit every time. I even did a 10 minute presentation in 2 minutes so that the class wouldn't have to wait because other groups ran over, and the bell rang when I started. The best presentation of the day would get a bag of pretzels as an award, which I ended up getting.

I dropped out after I missed two classes. The funny thing is, that I ended up with a C- even though I showed up to 1.5 classes (left on a bathroom break, where he chastises you for not peeing before class).

I have only been asked if I had a degree once. I typically get every job that I apply to and have never had trouble finding work. I have only struggled when I try to fit other people's molds. I do extremely well when I am free to do whatever I want.

College wasn't a waste of time because I learned a lot, and I was exposed to many interesting things. I also met a lot of interesting people and several of them have hired me or got me jobs. Definitely a good experience but I would have been way better off dropping out two years earlier and if I traded a few of the required classes for classes that interested me. Community college was taught by more passionate professors and I learned a heck of a lot more there. Also, it's laid back, people like to party, and you can pretty much take whatever you want.

Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Student Debt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8pjd1QEA0c

 

[pjoa09]

ADD is more often than not a cop out. Get some discipline, learn to meditate. It sounds like you're waiting for the Ritalin to do the work for you... It's not going to.

The educational system was taken over by J types a long time ago, it's unfortunate but it is currently the case (hopefully MOOCs will change this). Reduce your workload to just a few things, and become masterful with them. If you're really into CS, come up with a project that interests you and push yourself to incorporate the stuff you're supposed to know for the course.

I think so too. I am going to go cold turkey for the breaks. I sort of snapped back when I chucked my monitor and computer into the closet.

Any goof off time then ends up being spent on drawing or something creative as opposed to just browsing through useless information.

Calculus really? Huh. If you're taking too many classes I can see why it would be difficult, but undergraduate math on the whole is like learning a language. Its hard or very hard if you don't practice and the opposite if you do. It may not seem like it and I feel for your struggle, but that's the bulk of what it comes down to.

And that's where the busyness of schedule can sometimes hamper you. If you can practice for some small interval at least half the week, actually slogging through problems, its basically an impossibility you won't get significantly better at it.
Same thing with CS, the little experience I have with it. These are things you simply just have to do a lot (not just read and listen to lectures).

People who are really skilled did it a lot in their early years and come off as exceedingly intelligent to those who hadn't. But you can most certainly catch up in fluency, at least to a large degree.

Don't ever think you can't do it though.

I never found calculus itself truly difficult, just 3 math courses might have been too much to begin with. Data Structures was heavy for me.

 

[pjoa09]

[MP3][/MP3]

......

My entire situation is different. It might even be yours flipped on itself.

I started out with working in a small company the belonged to my father at 17-18 as full time right after High School because I hadn't properly planned for university. I had just vaguely thought of CS. I knew by genetic inheritance I'd be better in business. I sucked and it just felt horribly depressing.

After 4 years of just wishing I could learn programming and all that weird wizardly math stuff everyone talked about, I finally dared to despite knowing that I'd suck at it.

My family business pays for my tuition, it's not too much I'd say maybe $7k a year? I can't complain about education quality either. I consider my professors as very helpful wizards. In fact, that esteemed American education might be worse than what I am getting because there they prefer to have 1 teacher to 100 students whereas I have 1 teacher to 20 students or so. I just feel inadequate so far.

I also feel entitled to the education given that I did work for 4 years and never asked for much in return except for that car in the display picture which I tucked away in some obscure garage and haven't asked much about in a year due to being incredibly busy.

 

[computerhxr]

[MP3][/MP3]
My entire situation is different. It might even be yours flipped on itself.

Sounds like it. My family could not afford to give me anything, so I had to work my ass off to earn enough money to buy an 80286 so that I could write code.

I would work for neighbors digging holes, feeding animals, and mowing lawns for about $10-20 for a full days work. I was around 12/yo at the time.

Prior to that, I would use my uncles Commodore 64 to program using GW Basic. It didn't have a disk-drive, or a hard drive. I had to save my code to cassette tapes and record the time-codes where the code started and ended so that I could load it back into memory. I guess that I started programming when I was 8 years old?

If you think programming is difficult, then try using assembly to write an application. It will give you a core understanding of computing instead of a high-level language understanding. If you understand the core, then you can program in any language natively without any trouble.

In assembly, you have to specifically pull and push bits of data around different parts of the computer. You have to specify turning on and off individual pixels that make up the screen. I would hope that you were taught assembly or some other low-level language (or machine code) in college. The 101 class at the community college that I went to required us to write machine code and assembly.

Here's an example of assembly code:

[BIMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/Motorola_6800_Assembly_Language.png[/BIMG]​

 

[pjoa09]

Sounds like it. My family could not afford to give me anything, so I had to work my ass off to earn enough money to buy an 80286 so that I could write code.

I didn't do shit till 16. Then after 17 I just worked for free.

sooo yeh.

I know assembly but I adhere to python as of now because I cant be bothered by schematics and syntax.

 

[k9b4]

oi m8 do not swear its rude cunt

You'll be right. You aren't retarded. Or maybe you are. Does it matter?

Being stupid as fuck just means you have to put in more effort than other people to achieve the same result.

All you can do is try as hard as you can and hope you succeed.

I like to convince myself that I'm smarter than everybody else because confidence makes me feel good. Am I actually smarter than everybody else? Don't know, don't care and it doesn't matter. Just pretend you are because confidence is helpful.

 

[Valentas]

The secret is to persevere but not burn out.

This 2nd year at university was different because we had several assignments to do that were piled up in such a way that deadlines were a few days apart. A lot of people complained but as one chap pointed out: 'just play the curve'.

I also have a job to earn a living and thus have 15 hours less a week to spend on coursework than others. And it helps with efficiency because there is a deadline and you have to meet it or you get 0%. That is the policy.

My strategy to deal with hard stuff was to take breaks, go for 20-min naps and overall have some fun. Also, start with required work the same day it is assigned, I did and thanked myself. Space out your work. And don't forget to revise persistently over the semester. Week 1 passed? Good, spend some hours revising what you learned. Do the same thing every week for previous weeks. This is the strategy that enabled a friend who barely studied for exams to achieve great results. While I was half-sleeping with a book, he spent time playing basketball because he did study and revised all the time during semester.

Also, another item to digest: just put your ass on the chair and do the work. If you cannot do it in a day, ask for help from other students. There is no point in busting your brains for days without much progress.

Also, google reddit straight-A students thread, there are tips there how they learn. The most important point is to make sure that you do ALL the work assigned and leave at least a day per week to unwind doing totally different stuff to your degree.

And finally, make sure you do the right degree. I sometimes doubt if CS is for me since I don't find myself indulged in code for hours as others and I get tired fast. But it is mostly because I never attempted such hard feats like solving Topcoder problems before so I hope with time my brain will improve in stamina.

 

[QuickTwist]

Congrats, you have ADHD. See a psychiatrist and have them prescribe some medication.

 

[Arshid Baba]

I once self diagnosed myself that I had ADHD, but it turned out that I was an INTP hahaha.

 

[Arshid Baba]

I have exams in 6 days and here I am posting these messages. I always do this since I could remember.

 

[doncarlzone]

Also, start with required work the same day it is assigned, I did and thanked myself. Space out your work. And don't forget to revise persistently over the semester. Week 1 passed? Good, spend some hours revising what you learned. Do the same thing every week for previous weeks. This is the strategy that enabled a friend who barely studied for exams to achieve great results. While I was half-sleeping with a book, he spent time playing basketball because he did study and revised all the time during semester.

This is excellent advice. I'd also advise, if possible, to make use of ambitious study groups. It helps with discipline to have meetings and targets planned out, not just with yourself but with others, as it is more difficult to let other people down than yourself through procrastination.

 

[dr froyd]

Im gonna reveal to you the most effective study technique I have used (Im a graduate student in mathematics):

Bring your book or some sheet you have printed out with stuff you wanna learn. Then go to a cafe or restaurant, then calmly and slowly read the stuff and think about it while eating your lunch. Forget all the hardcore study rituals, sitting in a chair with a book in front of you for 4 hours, doing "exercises" etc. That stuff is for slaves.