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The Random Thoughts Thread

Happy

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Trolley problem is easy. You immediately switch to the one person and then you run over and try to untie them.
 

Pizzabeak

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I hate when people try to “take credit” for common words or phrases in a language, or even emotions, like they originated it. There’s some stigma that saying something first means you’re faster or more “woke” (closer to enlightenment) as if you were the originator of an event. You get no reward for stating the obvious. You can’t even say for sure.

And I don’t need a person “womansplaining” something to me, like it’s their own thing they’re dealing with (?). It doesn’t make sense.
 

Serac

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For the last 5 million years or so, every single one of your ancestors managed to survive and replicate. That's quite impressive.
 

CatGoddess

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An older gen friend of mine was ranting about participation trophies and how "people getting told they're winners just for 'trying their best' is ruining society!" I thought about it, though, and I actually don't have a problem with validating/rewarding effort.

Unless you're significantly handicapped, you will accomplish things in life through hard work*, and I think it makes sense to recognize kids' efforts to encourage them to try later in life, even in areas they don't naturally excel. Achievement should certainly be recognized too, but I disagree with the notion that rewarding those who genuinely try their best is detrimental. Although, I do have an issue with a literal participation award, where you praise and reward people who put forth 0 effort and accomplish nothing.

*
For instance, I'm naturally good at deductive reasoning/abstraction, and thus only have to put in a small amount of effort to understand calculus. Some of my classmates do not have this innate ability, but they work their asses off and thereby manage to get comparable grades to me. If they continue to apply this strategy, they can probably make it through college and get decent middle-class jobs.
 

Serac

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some people learn better from pain (perhaps most people?). I think when kids are pampered too much and never experience the pain of failing or fucking up, they don't acquire self-regulatory and self-motivating capabilities. So when they do eventually fuck up (like everyone does at some point), they just become depressed and demotivated.
 

soupymess

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Today I changed my previous opinion about the trolley problem after listening to a lecture where it was discussed. The same lecture also sparked an interest in philosophy which has been previously quenched by picking up books by previous philosophers and having to force ones way through obtuse speech, inaccurate observations or stupid comparisons.

Anyway, I went from pragmatic want to kill 5 people to not doing anything. How is that even possible? Though, I guess it should be said I solidly find such hypothetical useful for developing thought, but not so for principles.
Weird to think about in the context of driverless vehicles, especially where the AI's reasoning can't be made explicit. How could you distinguish a pragmatic/amoral sequence of 'decisions' in an ethical dilemma like that from an alien morality? Need a Turing test for moral agency or something.
 
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some people learn better from pain (perhaps most people?). I think when kids are pampered too much and never experience the pain of failing or fucking up, they don't acquire self-regulatory and self-motivating capabilities. So when they do eventually fuck up (like everyone does at some point), they just become depressed and demotivated.
the painful lessons aren't so easy to forget

i think we are seeing less debate in society and i think that's a concern. I think ideas need to be tested

lets say that you have an idea for a product or an idea of how society should be. If the idea is not examined and scrutinised and tested to ensure its validity then we could end up with a faulty product or idea

If your product is something big like a building or a rocket then not having your ideas tested could lead to a catastrophic event because you might have missed a crucial detail. for example a bridge collapsed after being installed in the US in the last year or so. Something was missed in the design or construction stage and if a culture is created which is an echo chamber then people become afraid to speak out and question things and this can lead to blind spots

I also think that the moral dimension of ideas should be discussed and i'm concerned that some personality types are so focussed on whether they can get an idea to work that they never concern themselves with whether or not its a good idea in the first place in terms of the human cost
 

CatGoddess

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serac said:
some people learn better from pain (perhaps most people?). I think when kids are pampered too much and never experience the pain of failing or fucking up, they don't acquire self-regulatory and self-motivating capabilities. So when they do eventually fuck up (like everyone does at some point), they just become depressed and demotivated.
I think you can reward people for working hard without taking away the experience of pain, though. For instance, a group of friends and I practiced solos for ~half a year to take to a contest. Our director would listen to us each week and give us feedback, but he would give more of a verbal "reward" to those who made a lot of progress that week than to those who sounded good but hadn't really worked on their solo.

So it's not like they/we never failed, and I think the director's general strategy does teach people to be tenacious even though they might've fucked up at certain points. And there really doesn't seem to be any harm in pushing people to continue working hard until they do get results, rather than discouraging them by sending off the message that their hard work is meaningless without results right now.

I mean, yes, I have noticed a number of high school seniors who became disillusioned after realizing they wouldn't succeed in everything, but I can't speak for the prevalence of this phenomenon in wider society. Besides, it seems to stem from a form of societal coddling/dumbing-down distinct from participation trophies (i.e. school is fairly easy for reasonably intelligent students, so the smarter people succeed at everything without trying and get the false impression that adult life is just as easy). If anything, I think that placing an emphasis on hard work rather than pure achievement early on counteracts this mentality.

@JohnnyLawrence I prefer argument to reach genuine consensus over polite agreement. The self-enforced neutrality practiced by a good portion of the people I know (usually high Fe users...?) gets kind of old.

You say you're an INFJ. What brings you to this forum?
 

lightfire

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Yallses random thoughts be extra
 

lightfire

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what if you live at like the border of a time zone, and your phone keeps going +/- an hour depending what side of the house you're on
 
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@JohnnyLawrence I prefer argument to reach genuine consensus over polite agreement. The self-enforced neutrality practiced by a good portion of the people I know (usually high Fe users...?) gets kind of old.
what if some people are invested in protecting a narrative and therefore won't ever admit the truth even if you prove it beyond reasonable doubt?

That debate will never be entirely amicable because you are basically exposing them as a fraud. So if you want to dig down to the truth you have to accept that some debate is going to be adversarial and that people won't always agree or get along but as long as they remain civilised then it can still be productive in that it allows an information exchange

You say you're an INFJ. What brings you to this forum?
an area i am particularly interested in getting greater insight into is in relation to our engagement with technology

I see technology as a double edged sword. I think it can be used for good or for ill depending on who is controlling the technology. It seems to me that INTP's are quite technically minded people whereas INFJ's are interested in morality and the human angle to things

So i'm interested in hearing INTP perspectives on certain topics that i think are going to have a big impact on our lives. This then in turn helps me to create an intuitive barometer as to which way the wind is blowing
 

CatGoddess

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@JohnnyLawrence Well, here's what I mean by "consensus". With a reasonable person (I make a point of not talking in-depth with unreasonable people because it's frustrating), I think I can always either convince them with evidence or find some unprovable difference in belief that's causing us to disagree.

For instance, I'm an atheist and a number of the people I know are religious, so that will inevitably cause differences in opinion because of our immutable beliefs (well, more mutable in my case because if I die and end up burning down in the inferno I'll obviously have to change my mind). As another example, I tend to take a more cynical view towards human nature, but you can find evidence supporting both the goodness and badness of humans, so you can't really prove that view one way or the other until we make more advances in psychology.

But that's an interesting reason to come here. I think most INTPs honestly aren't really thinking about technology in terms of its impact on people's lives or its ethical implications. They're generally looking at the scientific underpinnings and mechanisms first. Where an INFJ might say, "we must destroy death rays because of the hazard they pose to us all", an INTP would be more likely to say "woah! Tesla wanted to build a death ray and now we finally have one; isn't that awesome?! How does it work?"

Welcome to the forum, in any case.
 

Serac

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indeed, all scientific and technological progress has been made by people who thought certain problems were interesting, as opposed to thinking about their utility for humanity. E.g. Von Neumann invented computers to do atomic-bomb calculations, and wanted to make atomic bombs just because it was some cool shit to make from a scientific perspective. I suspect most INTPs think exactly like that.
 
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Well, here's what I mean by "consensus". With a reasonable person (I make a point of not talking in-depth with unreasonable people because it's frustrating), I think I can always either convince them with evidence or find some unprovable difference in belief that's causing us to disagree.
In an environment like a forum i think that even a debate with an unreasonable person can still be productive because all the people reading the debate get to hear the arguments so that even if you don't change the mind of the person who has an agenda you may still bring a lot of interesting information and perspectives to the public discourse

For instance, I'm an atheist and a number of the people I know are religious, so that will inevitably cause differences in opinion because of our immutable beliefs (well, more mutable in my case because if I die and end up burning down in the inferno I'll obviously have to change my mind). As another example, I tend to take a more cynical view towards human nature, but you can find evidence supporting both the goodness and badness of humans, so you can't really prove that view one way or the other until we make more advances in psychology.

But that's an interesting reason to come here. I think most INTPs honestly aren't really thinking about technology in terms of its impact on people's lives or its ethical implications. They're generally looking at the scientific underpinnings and mechanisms first. Where an INFJ might say, "we must destroy death rays because of the hazard they pose to us all", an INTP would be more likely to say "woah! Tesla wanted to build a death ray and now we finally have one; isn't that awesome?! How does it work?"
yeah i think you have summarised it well

so we can build nuclear bombs and we can build enough to destroy the world several times over and we can turn them into hypersonic missiles that don't allow a response from the targetted enemy but there is also a question of whether that's actually a good idea!

I think left brain thinking is intellect and that allows the creation of complex technologies but i think intelligence is when the whole brain is working together so that it considers the IMPLICATIONS of our actions down the line and weighs up what is actually best for humanity

Welcome to the forum, in any case.
thankyou!
 

onesteptwostep

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I saw Captain Marvel the other day. Decent origin story. I'm wondering how the chemistry of the characters are going to play out though.. Captain Marvel has somewhat of a loose, free feel while the avengers are in this sentimentally charged aftermath.
 

CatGoddess

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I didn't really like it; Carol herself was rather generic/unmemorable as a character, and the plot was highly predictable. There were certainly good parts (Goose! Fury! Jokes!), but, overall, it seemed fairly bland as far as Marvel movies go.
 

onesteptwostep

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Yeah it was a pretty light movie. I enjoyed it, but because I didn't really expect anything out it. I knew it was just a precursor to Endgame- I honestly went in to watch because of the post-credits scene, which was something I was dissappointed on.
 

lightfire

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Been craving some brisket and ribs, but all the good texan places open on wednesday.

:mad:
 
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