The pain, wonder, and mystery of not having an Fi.

[TimeAsylums]

Oh, I'm sure we've all wondered what it's like. We've very much cleared up the N/S divide. Sometimes I get apathetic about not being able to FEEL deep, forlorn, wonderous, mystery of emotion. Obviously you INTPs get a lot of flack for being ice cold, but that's Fe.
Fe-Anyone with an Fe anywhere in their stack is destined to be some type of care taker, SOME type of people pleaser, whether you want to or not, you will care about others. Have you ever noticed your own penchant/inclination/proclivity to have to care about other people, for some reason you probably couldn't be selfish if you wanted to, people might call you Selfish, but that's because they don't see the whole side right? Fe is merely external harmony with others.

Here's the apathetic part, goddamn you bastard creator, higher power, how date you not give us an Fi anywhere in our functional (first four) stack. I cry so not often. I often desire to feel love.

Ah, the ISFP I dated...I didn't care how illogical or sensor she acted...her Fi was...amazing. True emotion. Internal feelings...what are they?!?! So while the INTPs the INTPs get flack for being externally cold, all of us who lack Fi in our first four...how...insane.

We have the ability to analyze wonderously.
The one thing I have trouble with...internal feelings.
When someone asks you your opinion on how something makes you feel, you answer with what you thought it out, very rarely(Almoat never) does something evoke any emotion of me. Even lets sAy an Fe dom, concerned with external harmony of people, lacking an internal feeling system..

Ah what the hell. How dare I lAck it
Of course the Tdoms may say, oh it's just certain chemicals in the brain reacting, but you know that doesn't make anyone feel better. Oh the woes. (Predominantly the NTs without Fi) this neutral/cerebral feeling 90%+ of the time (intp/ENTPs) at least you intjs have An Fi. I'm perfectly okay with having a stunted/inferior S.

But the lack...of the ability...to FEEL

//rant

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

But the lack...of the ability...to FEEL

The fact that you wrote the post allows people to draw implications which run counter to the statement quoted above.

Sincerely,

Proxy

 

[TimeAsylums]

Lol no cat said sincerely
Come on no cat ! Be more open minded
Merely living in a sensor dominated world allows the intuitives to blend in and learn well, no?
Observing and analyzing feelings merely leads to the same conclusion- imitation and understandimg, but in vain alas tis fake.

 

[r4ch3l]

I think we just get confused about the dividing line between thoughts and emotions. I know I do. When I feel something or SHOULD feel something I usually can't identify it and then I go mad trying to analyze what the feeling is, or feel nothing and analyze but that I am analyzing something personal at all means that I have feelings about it, even if I don't actively feel them.

Polaris wrote something on this yesterday in the INTJ-INTP thread (about the difficulty in discriminating the difference between feelings and thoughts): http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=14686

Feeling as defined by MBTI is one thing, but all humans feel. Just in different ways.
I prefer to keep a lid on 'em though and avoid emotionally jarring situations these days because the Fe explosion and infinite loops of Ti-Si in absence of feelings feelings (which come so naturally to people with different constitutions i.e. your ISFP) are overwhelming and a waste of time and energy.

 

[TimeAsylums]

I think we just get confused about the dividing line between thoughts and emotions. I know I do. When I feel something or SHOULD feel something I usually can't identify it and then I go mad trying to analyze what the feeling is, or feel nothing and analyze but that I am analyzing something personal at all means that I have feelings about it, even if I don't actively feel them.

Polaris wrote something on this yesterday in the INTJ-INTP thread (about the difficulty in discriminating the difference between feelings and thoughts): http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=14686

Feeling as defined by MBTI is one thing, but all humans feel. Just in different ways.
I prefer to keep a lid on 'em though and avoid emotionally jarring situations these days because the Fe explosion and infinite loops of Ti-Si in absence of feelings feelings (which come so naturally to people with different constitutions i.e. your ISFP) are overwhelming and a waste of time and energy.

Ah no rachel, I understand what youre saying, but that's not what im getting at
It's Fi. Have you ever been in love? Have you had emotion entirely sweep you over and move you? Guess is youll say yes just not often. Ask monstressor about his Fi or read on personalityjunkie about Fi

 

[r4ch3l]

But that's the thing; I don't understand the difference! I feel the same sensation of excitement and euphoria whether I am experiencing an epiphany or experiencing a moment of happiness or connection or love. But I am not going to lie, the epiphany moments feel more rewarding and intense and exciting. The love feelings are just confusing and intense in a scattered way. Maybe you're right. x__x

For me the only kinds of happiness and genuine positive emotion seem to be epiphany, connection, and momentary peace/contentment/at one with my self and environment. [[shit; you're onto something]]

 

[redbaron]

I don't know if there's anything I could possibly care about less than whether or not I possess *insert assumed existence of an arbitrary facet of an anecdotally-derived and entirely subjective (cue irrelevant and non-contextual philosophical masturbation session debate about how "everytink is subjective!") psychological sub-system*.

 

[Montresor]

I don't know if there's anything I could possibly care about less than whether or not I possess *insert assumed existence of an arbitrary facet of an anecdotally-derived and entirely subjective (cue irrelevant and non-contextual philosophical masturbation session debate about how "everytink is subjective!") psychological sub-system*.

How on earth do you always manage to say the perfect thing at the perfect time?

 

[doncarlzone]

I don't know if there's anything I could possibly care about less than whether or not I possess *insert assumed existence of an arbitrary facet of an anecdotally-derived and entirely subjective (cue irrelevant and non-contextual philosophical masturbation session debate about how "everytink is subjective!") psychological sub-system*.

Yes it almost becomes religious when nobody is questioning the validity of the system itself.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Genuine deep and powerful emotions do not require Fi.

I think that a problem with the descriptions of all functions is that they mix distinct and non-distinct characteristics. Fe users can be selfish and all types (especially all f-types) have personal feelings about stuff. There is no categorical divisor.

 

[doncarlzone]

Genuine deep and powerful emotions do not require Fi.

I think that a problem with the descriptions of all functions is that they mix distinct and non-distinct characteristics. Fe users can be selfish and all types (especially all f-types) have personal feelings about stuff. There is no categorical divisor.

Exactly, if that was not the case one should probably consider getting a diagnosis.

 

[TimeAsylums]

For those talking about getting a diagnosis and only deep emotion, you , misunderstand me.
And no duh, any type can be a selfish jerk or ass or immature, just a generality.

But that's the thing;Maybe you're right. x__x

For me the only kinds of happiness and genuine positive emotion seem to be epiphany, connection, and momentary peace/contentment/at one with my self and environment. [[shit; you're onto something]]

THIS is definitely what im talking about, we usually experience happiness and content when using our dom n aux functions, and sometims anger ornannoyance with tertand inferior, but what about something.....real.
If I asked you how a certain place made you FEEL, you could or probably would analyze the ambiance and the people to determine if you "enjoy" it or not, but what I want to evoke is the emotional response.

 

[Architect]

Oh, I'm sure we've all wondered what it's like. ... But the lack...of the ability...to FEEL

Nice description of Fi, thanks for that. I'm confused however as you are an ENTP why you wrote this?

Genuine deep and powerful emotions do not require Fi

Surely, and if we want to confine it to type there are the shadow functions, which is where Fi lives for the INTP. Nobody really knows what to make of the shadow functions, but viewed that way I'm inclined to believe that they are ones we use, on occasion, when needed or desired. For example I'll Se when I have to and Fi when I want to.

Looking back my emotions normally express themselves in a cheerful way - chatting with people, being charming, making jokes. Entertainer INTP's such as Larry David can channel Ne-Fe in this way. With music I also naturally like to bring out the deep emotions, maybe at least once a day, for about 15m-30m by playing or listening to some music. Playing the Pavane pour une infante défunte for example will bring me in touch with the deeper elemental depths of my being.

I just don't need or want to do that all the time, unlike one with Fi higher in their stack.

 

[Jennywocky]

Is the cat dead yet?
Or shall we dissect it some more?

 

[Architect]

Is the cat dead yet?
Or shall we dissect it some more?

Proxy? He seems fine. Meanie!

 

[TimeAsylums]

It seems the non Fi users are a bit...odd on understanding the Fi, id like to know how you would describe it then, seeing as no one else shares my viewpoint,

Architect, because it is something I desire.

 

[Architect]

Architect, because it is something I desire.

Ah. It takes some 'practice', find an art form to channel it. Classical music works for me. Or, maybe it's a way to express my inferior Fe. Fi might be found a little more in poetry.

 

[TimeAsylums]

Ah. It takes some 'practice', find an art form to channel it. Classical music works for me.

Ah I know it takes practice, see:

//rant

unfortunately very few of us are at that level (music wise, I am a neanderthal), it (Fi) comes up less than once a month. When I saw the isfp use it every second of every day...oh god, I didnt let her leave my side (srs), in poetry meh if anything, merely above teenage level poetry, indeed it invokes emotion I agree, could read it, if Ne so desires...but axtually having it...damn isfp

I was thinking the outcome of ur work is small Fe, you mentioned safety when a plane lands etc, it may not be direct, but thatsccaring and harmomy

 

[Jennywocky]

Proxy? He seems fine. Meanie!

Poor Proxy.

... but really. Separating people into 8 components and speaking of them as fully separate entities in themselves that can be turned on and off or inserted and removed, and having specific behaviors categorized into them, rather than as all of them being fluid integrated parts of the same individual, is just getting really old around here lately.

 

[TimeAsylums]

Poor Proxy.

... but really. Separating people into 8 components and speaking of them as fully separate entities in themselves that can be turned on and off or inserted and removed, and having specific behaviors categorized into them, rather than as all of them being fluid integrated parts of the same individual, is just getting really old around here lately.

Not sure if this is directed at me or not,..
IF it is...lol ive done no such thing, because I break it down and explain it like behaviorism, I can see why you MIGHT think that, but I don't. Lol cmon youve maybe read my other posts, I know its fluid, thats why people can be hard to type, anyone can randomly display anything, you should know I speak in generalities, if therr is a correlatiom between two types or behaviors, I want to know and talk about it, I don't speak of any direct specific causations:

I merely speculate correlations of generalities.

 

[Brontosaurie]

stop worrying about function stack and just do it

 

[Brontosaurie]

just get it on with, in a clinical detached way

 

[Architect]

... but really. Separating people into 8 components and speaking of them as fully separate entities in themselves that can be turned on and off or inserted and removed, and having specific behaviors categorized into them, rather than as all of them being fluid integrated parts of the same individual, is just getting really old around here lately.

But we're INTPs! Meanie!

 

[BigApplePi]

You want Fi? Okay. Here's how. First thing you've got to stop that stinkin' thinkin'. Forget reason. It's more or less impotent anyway. Second, kick that Fe in the butt. You don't need no stinkin' caretakin' if you can't take care of you. Now you can get a taste of Fi. For example, let rage, love and fear sweep over you. Let it take over and see what you get.

System? You've got a thinking system already. Toss it temp. You don't need it all-a-time. You may not get a good system outta Fi, but you will experience it. Just abandon reason and be sure not to ever take my advice.

Added: another technique I forgot about. You said you dated an "F." Use your reason to do this: pick a fight with her. Make sure you are clever enuf to portray complete sincerity so you can't undo what damage you've done. If you really like this F, her reaction should send you into Fi. Don't take my word for this. Try it out ... and remember the recommendation I gave in my last sentence: "Just abandon ..."

 

[TimeAsylums]

But we're INTPs! Meanie!

Pssssst...her f is showing

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Proxy? He seems fine. Meanie!

Poor Proxy.

I'm confused.

 

[TimeAsylums]

I'm confused.

Teehee, a confused intj.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Teehee, a confused intj.

Probably some subtext I was missing.

 

[TimeAsylums]

Architect, i thought of another way to describe it, that i want the ful range of e(motion).
Extrapolatin a bit, you know howw the Se's have a higher capacity for external stimulation, wheras its not even in our functional stack?? Well lets take one extreme llove for food,, i imagne theeir taste buds are like 10x (random) strnger than ours, is that noot to be desired as well?

I merely desire to feel the emotional stimulatin an Fi gets. The veeery very very few moments i have,, i treasure (lol using Si on Fi)

 

[Words]

A lot of people here can't see what you're seeing here, so don't get too disappointed. Fe is very much reactionary whereas Fi initiates on its own. But is reactionary emoting the equivalent of not feeling? I don't think so. It may not be independent or isolated, but it's still 'feeling.' I'ts just a "bigger feeling" i think. Fe sort of just has a bigger ego. Harmony itself is the feeling. Collective feeling is strangely an individual feeling too.

 

[TimeAsylums]

A lot of people here can't see what you're seeing here, so don't get too disappointed. Fe is very much reactionary whereas Fi initiates on its own. But is reactionary emoting the equivalent of not feeling? I don't think so. It may not be independent or isolated, but it's still 'feeling.' I'ts just a "bigger feeling" i think. Fe sort of just has a bigger ego. Harmony itself is the feeling. Collective feeling is strangely an individual feeling too.

I understand just so curious what the other side is like, ya know? The other functions are describable and cope-able, (I mean so is fi, but u know)

Im glad you get it thouh

 

[Words]

Maybe if you force your brain enough, you can feel what it's like on the other-side.


Something I think that is pretty interesting about Fe is that you can apply it to objects. It's like resonance with nature or some shit. "Being one with the universe" or something hehe. In the same way that you can objectify humans(or treat them like objects slave trade etc.), you can "subjectify" objects. Pretty fascinating (albeit a little kooky) imo. "Hello there, pen."

 

[TimeAsylums]

Maybe if you force your brain enough, you can feel what it's like on the other-side.

Heheheh exact opp method than BAP suggested, but ive tried (I try) everything. Being in love/radically invokig the infefior and/or unconscious seems to do it.

Something I think that is pretty interesting about Fe is that you can apply it to objects. It's like resonance with nature or some shit. "Being one with the universe" or something hehe. In the same way that you can objectify humans(or treat them like objects slave trade etc.), you can "subjectify" objects. Pretty fascinating (albeit a little kooky) imo.

Youre the first to explain my thoughts (ne) before I spoke them. Why have our paths only crossed now? (I like you)

But yes I agree 100% about fe.
Esp ne-fe big picture + one with the universe, throw T in there and voila.
Im currently In costa rica on vacay, whenever Im alone (anywhere) I invoke nefe, I always havethat "so sense of calm/so happy you could die" moments anywhere I want,, stargazing, good ambiance, anywhete, however 99% of the time, still "neutral/robotic" thats why I want the fi.

That is Fe does give that sense of peace/harmony, but I seek raw emotion.
I must know what status of life you are in>_< age status etc,..

 

[Jennywocky]

A lot of people here can't see what you're seeing here, so don't get too disappointed. Fe is very much reactionary whereas Fi initiates on its own. But is reactionary emoting the equivalent of not feeling? I don't think so. It may not be independent or isolated, but it's still 'feeling.' I'ts just a "bigger feeling" i think. Fe sort of just has a bigger ego. Harmony itself is the feeling. Collective feeling is strangely an individual feeling too.

I usually find my emotions "triggered." Sometimes i can't even say the emotion triggered is really "mine," it's just the emotion that seems most appropriate to the situation.

As a somewhat similar example, it will play into the chameleon thing where I might personally not really have much feelings in either direction, but I'll reflect back the emotions I'm getting off the other person. If someone talks calmly to me on a forum I'll typically approach them in kind; if someone gets aggressive or blunt, I'll reflect a similar level of emotional content in my speech even if personally at the time I'm not feeling as much. I'm capable of being pretty upset inside about something but sounding totally calm on the surface depending on the context; or I can sound really angry but really am not feeling much inside about it at all.

it's weird stuff. I'm not even sure I like it, but I've also had to accept it as part of how I function once I stopped smothering all feelings.

 

[scorpiomover]

But that's the thing; I don't understand the difference! I feel the same sensation of excitement and euphoria whether I am experiencing an epiphany or experiencing a moment of happiness or connection or love. But I am not going to lie, the epiphany moments feel more rewarding and intense and exciting. The love feelings are just confusing and intense in a scattered way. Maybe you're right. x__x

For me the only kinds of happiness and genuine positive emotion seem to be epiphany, connection, and momentary peace/contentment/at one with my self and environment. [[shit; you're onto something]]

I know what you mean. Having ideas is sometimes orgasmic.

 

[speiss]

I haven't been in the MBTI... swing of things in a long time, and so forgive me if the connotations associated with Fi and Fe and whatever else is off and different from the rest of yours. But from reading, and from being an ENFP, so I have been categorized long ago and seems accurate enough, having... emotions withheld, or rather, in the background, my, such an advantage and disadvantage!

I talk to myself a lot - or well, think out loud. When alone I'll lie on my bed or look in my mirror and talk - and analyze. Not just my emotions or feelings, but everyone's damn emotions and feelings. Being inundated constantly by all these emotions and having to overcome the humiliation, the turmoil, and the logic that should be backing them up but dammit, isn't! is... exhausting. But I take pleasure in this analysis.

Sometimes the thought of a person, just their name, brings on waves of shame.
Why?
Why can't I control this shame, this deep reddening of my face, the tears that come even though, why cry, when the situation is so shallow, and was so preventable, and why did you behave differently, eh?
Questions bombard and the hours of lying still, looking to the ceiling for answers, hearing my voice for answers, speaking in a level manner so I can hear it and seduce the reddening and the shame away.
This Fe stuff - I almost wrote "nonsense", that's the belligerent skeptic in me, har - provokes a sense of... or rather, invokes the obligation to care, does it? Are INTPs caring? From what I have observed, they... more become passionate about things that are not people, and when they do become passionate about people, they look at them more as objects, like a paper cup whose composition has to be picked apart, parts dissolved, mixed with other things for reactions - and while a human is logic and a human is feelings and a human is a host of other things influenced by instinct and the base animal desire to survive and reproduce, to be accepted and to be loved and understood - those emotions are deemed as so highly important!

Why?

Because they have... a stranglehold on this human that they're controlling, a sort of, every decision you face, I am the backrunner, watching logic from but feet away, seeing if he's doing a satisfactory job... and seeing if I'm okay with it.
In regards to the INTP plight, ah, emotions, happiness, epiphanies, bursts of realization and connection, ah! Refreshing and beautiful and what fills me with glee - in regards to that,
why be unsatisfied when you have things that already make you happy?
To feel the richness of depression, the glory of being so affected by menial things - I won't deny that they may be seen as making the human experience... deeper.
But admit, these things have been much romanticized.
Obvious reason being:
most of the population - or rather, the most noticeable people - are prone to such behavior.

Now forgive me if with this post I'm overlooking forum politics, as I haven't been on for a while and don't pay a lot of attention anyway to who's who and what they've said and why people care so much why they've said it - but, ah! It was nice to let thought spill, despite the trailing off and the little sense they may have made.

I don't know if anybody remembers me. It's been a while.

 

[TimeAsylums]

I draw out all the members!!!! Fuck yeah! Ego booooost!!!!

//shitting aside,

@jenny, yes triggered def inferior fe for intp if you read architects post on crying during one thing or anotherm but Fi......oh I must have it, screw my inferior si (I mean being a yogamaster yogi great and all, but Ne will inexorably reign,)
Anyway, oh my dear @words where have you gone
@speiss youre such a cute enfp

 

[Words]

Heheheh exact opp method than BAP suggested, but ive tried (I try) everything. Being in love/radically invokig the infefior and/or unconscious seems to do it.

Youre the first to explain my thoughts (ne) before I spoke them. Why have our paths only crossed now? (I like you)

But yes I agree 100% about fe.
Esp ne-fe big picture + one with the universe, throw T in there and voila.
Im currently In costa rica on vacay, whenever Im alone (anywhere) I invoke nefe, I always havethat "so sense of calm/so happy you could die" moments anywhere I want,, stargazing, good ambiance, anywhete, however 99% of the time, still "neutral/robotic" thats why I want the fi.

That is Fe does give that sense of peace/harmony, but I seek raw emotion.
I must know what status of life you are in>_< age status etc,..

My understanding of the subjectification of objects is limited to pure theoretical. I have no direct experience. It's kind of crazy in the first place. But I guess we treat fictional characters as real all the time. To translate that to inter-connectivity and the universe though, i can't imagine it.

I usually find my emotions "triggered." Sometimes i can't even say the emotion triggered is really "mine," it's just the emotion that seems most appropriate to the situation.

As a somewhat similar example, it will play into the chameleon thing where I might personally not really have much feelings in either direction, but I'll reflect back the emotions I'm getting off the other person. If someone talks calmly to me on a forum I'll typically approach them in kind; if someone gets aggressive or blunt, I'll reflect a similar level of emotional content in my speech even if personally at the time I'm not feeling as much. I'm capable of being pretty upset inside about something but sounding totally calm on the surface depending on the context; or I can sound really angry but really am not feeling much inside about it at all.

it's weird stuff. I'm not even sure I like it, but I've also had to accept it as part of how I function once I stopped smothering all feelings.

yeah. I didn't like it too. It kind of feels fake, adapting to the emotions around you and making it your own or pretending it to be your own. It's weird though, I think everyone is capable of thinking like this, it's just that Fe types always have it on by default or something. I think I've learned to appreciate it a little bit. You don't feel like your own person, but you can feel as a collective instead, which is kind of practical if you want leadership positions. It's all about the morale and being able to take care of that morale. Kind of like being able to fan flames.

This Fe stuff - I almost wrote "nonsense", that's the belligerent skeptic in me, har - provokes a sense of... or rather, invokes the obligation to care, does it? Are INTPs caring? From what I have observed, they... more become passionate about things that are not people, and when they do become passionate about people, they look at them more as objects, like a paper cup whose composition has to be picked apart, parts dissolved, mixed with other things for reactions - and while a human is logic and a human is feelings and a human is a host of other things influenced by instinct and the base animal desire to survive and reproduce, to be accepted and to be loved and understood - those emotions are deemed as so highly important!

Why?

Because they have... a stranglehold on this human that they're controlling, a sort of, every decision you face, I am the backrunner, watching logic from but feet away, seeing if he's doing a satisfactory job... and seeing if I'm okay with it.

I'm trying to understand this. I can't. The INTPs relationship to Fe? No idea. yeah~no idea. Obliviousness.

I don't know if anybody remembers me. It's been a while.

Yeah, you're that annoying person who I argued with about Chess. ENFP? hah, it makes sense how you're so illogical. I jest.

 

[TimeAsylums]

My understanding of the subjectification of objects is limited to pure theoretical. I have no direct experience. It's kind of crazy in the first place. But I guess we treat fictional characters as real all the time. To translate that to inter-connectivity and the universe though, i can't imagine it,

I subjectified objects more as a child, however there should be two categories here, one for what we are talkimg about, but two for "sentimentality." Fe/Fi+Se/Si all can be alluded to sentimentality in different forms, most classic (stereotyoical) definition being si/fi> se> fe

The interconnectedness is just what I said "complete calm//those moments where "ah, im so happy/peaceful/whatever RIGHT now, that I could die" heavy(larger invoking of Fe, usable with both si (internal self) and se (relating self to objects).

Nonetheless, im really glad you were able to understand thus far.
Speaking of zen/calm also renders some discussion of Ni users, except the inxjs do have fi,

 

[SpiralHacker]

In psychology emotions are called affects. Jung was clear that feeling was not affects. Everyone has emotions.

Fi is a method of judgement/discernment that relies on subjective affects and personal values. For this reason, emotions can play a more important role for Fi-dominants, but not having Fi as your dominant or secondary function does not hinder you from having emotions.

 

[TimeAsylums]

In psychology emotions are called affects. Jung was clear that feeling was not affects. Everyone has emotions.

Fi is a method of judgement/discernment that relies on subjective affects and personal values. For this reason, emotions can play a more important role for Fi-dominants, but not having Fi as your dominant or secondary function does not hinder you from having emotions.

You could have saved yourself the wordiness if you had read @words and my correspondance. My OP lacked very good explanation, but he got the gist of what I was saying. That is, you're just saying what everyone else who I didn't respond to was saying.

 

[SpiralHacker]

I was more clear and accurate.

 

[Words]

I subjectified objects more as a child,

Have you had imaginary friends? It's strange that children are more creative than adults.

however there should be two categories here, one for what we are talkimg about, but two for "sentimentality." Fe/Fi+Se/Si all can be alluded to sentimentality in different forms, most classic (stereotyoical) definition being si/fi> se> fe

Haven't explored sentimentality. I can agree with the Feeling functions role, not sure with the Sensing. Why isn't intuition included here? Or I guess the first question that should be asked is what is "sentimentality" exactly?

The interconnectedness is just what I said "complete calm//those moments where "ah, im so happy/peaceful/whatever RIGHT now, that I could die" heavy(larger invoking of Fe, usable with both si (internal self) and se (relating self to objects).

I have never had those experiences. Could that be related to the non-survivalist mindset of soldiers? Does feeling something bigger than yourself reduce the feeling for your own survival?

With Si for internal self and Se for relating to objects, I have never encountered those before. Se for relating to objects...that's interesting.

Nonetheless, im really glad you were able to understand thus far.
Speaking of zen/calm also renders some discussion of Ni users, except the inxjs do have fi,

INxJs have Fi? I think you're an INFJ btw. I mean occam's razor. Either you're an Ni'sh INTP or just that you're an INFJ.

 

[TimeAsylums]

Have you had imaginary friends? It's strange that children are more creative than adults.

Yes and yes

Haven't explored sentimentality. I can agree with the Feeling functions role, not sure with the Sensing. Why isn't intuition included here? Or I guess the first question that should be asked is what is "sentimentality" exactly?

Being sentimental = attachment to objects (se) with feelings (fefi) associated with past (si)

I have never had those experiences. Could that be related to the non-survivalist mindset of soldiers? Does feeling something bigger than yourself reduce the feeling for your own survival?

first question: thats possible. Second quesion: yes

INxJs have Fi? I think you're an INFJ btw. I mean occam's razor. Either you're an Ni'sh INTP or just that you're an INFJ.

Can we take this to the witch hunt thread? I actually appreciate your opinion and id like to hear more of this

Also sorry I blipped, intj has fi* not infj

 

[Obsidian]

I think Fi is the most useless of function-attitudes. This whole thread is absurd.

In general, extraversion is best. The ONLY function where the introverted version is arguably better, is Thinking. And even that one could be argued. Introverted feeling has to be the most useless of things.

 

[Spirit]

I think Fi is the most useless of function-attitudes. This whole thread is absurd.

In general, extraversion is best. The ONLY function where the introverted version is arguably better, is Thinking. And even that one could be argued. Introverted feeling has to be the most useless of things.

The ability to establish your own world view, taste or value is pointless? The opposite is Fe, which gets it values or world view from the external environment is preferred by you?

 

[BigApplePi]

I'll go with what Spirit said. There is a way out of this though. A person with a leading Fi is not the same as unconscious Fi in a Ti person which may be what you're thinking of. Cognitive functions are supposed to be conscious anyway. The trick is to have Ti and Fi lurking below the conscious level tells you "intuitively" what is important to you underneath. Tricky, eh?

 

[Obsidian]

I don't believe in shadow functions. And neither did Jung.

 

[BigApplePi]

I don't believe in shadow functions. And neither did Jung.

Can you define, "shadow function" as you think of it?

 

[Obsidian]

The concept that someone has eight "functions," and that every function-attitude is complemented by a "subconscious" "function" of the opposite attitude.