The joys of medicating oneself.

[Melkor]

Ah, blatant titles, how very helpful.

Yes as you have gathered from my illustrious label, your dearest Melkor is currently in a state of self induced super-passive bliss. Directly, if you count it was by my hand, indirectly if you count that I'm prescribed to the things, and have been for years, yet never take them. My 'condition' is fabled and debatable, so many of you will sneer if I even mention it alongside medication, as such, I will not.

It is both wonderful and slightly eerie.
I note that things which aught to depress me severely are battered aside, that things as normal as swaying trees are suddenly hypnotic, and that my capacity to love every individual I encounter is increased tenfold.

Other effects seem to be, so far as I can detect
- a loss of appetite,

-less of an inclination to speak (Normally I speak rarely, and only out of awkward silence or in response to a question, but now, I won't talk unless I absolutely want to),

-when I do speak, I seem to only want to discuss very structured and logical topics, or at least, ones which require deep thinking to approach, such as the composition of the Japanese script(s), my reasons for following light atheism, possibly outcomes of the future for humanity and politics, the various impossibilities of time travel...to name a few examples of the past few days.
(Oddly, I will speak of this to anyone, with little or no input from them, ha, in most cases the other person asks me to stop or leaves hurriedly)

-an occasional very confusing moment were my head feels light and full of static, and I feel as though I am in mental pain, like depression, but so blurry and befuddled, I do not even know why...a moment of sentience, or a mental after-taste from the pills?

-If I decide to do something, I seem to be much more determined to see I through in this state... I am less easily distracted in this dream.

-I have become lazier....less inclined to do anything physical....even things so small as cleaning...I have slowed down.

-Last night I slept quite poorly until six or so in the morning, I spent most of the night reading Evelyn Waugh's 'A handful of Dust' while scribbling things on the inside cover. I do not imagine I have a particular reason for doing this, however, I can see a rather blatant one, acting perhaps subconsciously...
I am ignoring it for now, further proof is needed before judgement is cast, and how to detect the subconscious, can we ever truly know that which we cannot see?

And yet...a confusion of selves is brought into play...

Ought I not, as one person, be entirely unaware or the fact that this change has changed place, at least within the boundaries of my mind?

By which I mean, while it makes sense that I notice a change in mood, it makes no sense that I should be able to comprehend and compare both moods simultaneously.

At current, for example, I know that once this high ends, I will abruptly return to depression, I will be weary, hungry, full of hatred, and I will feel as if I have betrayed myself for taking the weaker path, for evading suffering, suffering which is well deserved and well justified... almost inescapable..an all consuming supernova in the corner of my eye...

But how can I know this? Surely, in my overjoyed other self I should be incapable of contemplating such a meagre state.
Is this because the feelings are merely superficial? These effects merely a coating, being changed to better protect the mind, the real me sheltered beneath the layers, thus allowing introspection of these layers?

Oddly, this theory is subverted by the following observation;
-When in *the other mood* or rather, the debatable real and default mood, I find it difficult to comprehend or even imitate the thought of my current mood...

That means the outer layers cannot exist as mentioned, if self-study requires the bulk of my mental apparatus, then I should be capable of analysing any mood regardless of which I am wearing....Unless... some layers are greater than others, and shadows are cast appropriately...

Can a sad clown playing happy cards acknowledge happiness?


What are these shadows?

To whom do these faces...masks..... belong?

Am I even real?

 

[Deckard]

A large part of understanding a mood is actually feeling of it. When you are depressed it is difficult to imagine those feelings. Depression can also come with reduced clarity of thought and negativity, which makes it even less likely for you to be able to imagine yourself in a state of happiness. I don't know if the analogy of layers of thought is accurate; I think it has more to do with depression biasing your thinking with negativity, and lowering clarity of thought.

What meds are you on, out of curiosity?

 

[vash22]

I have been recently diagnosed with dysthymia, but have yet to accept any medication for it. So this thread is of particular interest to me. Especially since our sentiments are very similar, and what you are noticing about yourself on medication is what I am worried will happen to me.
My only question is, do you think it is ultimately worth it? I would appreciate an answer from the medicated and unmedicated point of views, if that is possible.

 

[Fukyo]

Personal opinion:

I've never been diagnosed with anything, but then again I've never been to a psychiatrist either. I'm very skeptical of diagnoses and handing meds to people like candy.

I'm against self-medication. I've always been stubborn in my refusal to take even the simple sedatives, even when I really needed them. This also includes the more crude methods like alcohol or illegal drugs. I won't even go into what sorts of fucked up side effects these drugs can have on one's physical and mental health, (or the lack of it).

I don't need or want these crutches. Maybe it's unreasonable, but I think that self delusion is one of the worst things one can to oneself. If they won't solve anything in the long run then I don't want them. A temporary fix would just be more damaging.

Pain is what it is, but it lets me know I'm still real and alive.

 

[Latro]

Personal opinion:

I've never been diagnosed with anything, but then again I've never been to a psychiatrist either. I'm very skeptical of diagnoses and handing meds to people like candy.

I'm against self-medication. I've always been stubborn in my refusal to take even the simple sedatives, even when I really needed them. This also includes the more crude methods like alcohol or illegal drugs. I won't even go into what sorts of fucked up side effects these drugs can have on one's physical and mental health, (or the lack of it).

I don't need or want these crutches. Maybe it's unreasonable, but I think that self delusion is one of the worst things one can to oneself. If they won't solve anything in the long run then I don't want them. A temporary fix would just be more damaging.

Pain is what it is, but it lets me know I'm still real and alive.

Does this include physical pain? For example, a very common situation is getting your wisdom teeth extracted and then being prescribed a painkiller, generally on the level of Vicodin (hydrocodone if you're not familiar with that brand name). Would you take that if it were prescribed in this context?

If it doesn't, is there a difference between "transient" pain (such as wisdom teeth extraction, which will eventually stop hurting without a painkiller in general) and "chronic" pain (such as back issues, which do not generally go away without a painkiller)? If so, is there then a difference between "transient" emotional pain (extremely intense grief, perhaps) and "chronic" emotional pain (depression, perhaps)?

Serious questions; I'm not actually even against what you're saying, just poking at it to learn more about it.

 

[Fukyo]

Does this include physical pain? For example, a very common situation is getting your wisdom teeth extracted and then being prescribed a painkiller, generally on the level of Vicodin (hydrocodone if you're not familiar with that brand name). Would you take that if it were prescribed in this context?

If it doesn't, is there a difference between "transient" pain (such as wisdom teeth extraction, which will eventually stop hurting without a painkiller in general) and "chronic" pain (such as back issues, which do not generally go away without a painkiller)?
Serious questions; I'm not actually even against what you're saying, just poking at it to learn more about it.

Was referring to emotional pain connected to depressive states and such; sedatives were brought up in the context of using them to numb down agitation or anxiety temporarily, not physical pain.

In general, my issue with medication is the benefit vs. damage ratio, especially in long term. I know it can work out very well for some people and help them with their lives, although in some cases it doesn't.

If so, is there then a difference between "transient" emotional pain (extremely intense grief, perhaps) and "chronic" emotional pain (depression, perhaps)?

I don't know, I guess it depends on the individual and what they're dealing with, their threshold of tolerance, how much/what they are willing to sustain, etc.

 

[JUN]

Derp Fukyo.

Oh wow, look at that guy who wants to kill himself, should we medicate him ? NAH, pain makes him feel alive !

 

[Fukyo]

Derp Fukyo.

Oh wow, look at that guy who wants to kill himself, should we medicate him ? NAH, pain makes him feel alive !

Umm, no. I said it's a personal opinion, and it applies to me alone. It has more to do with me wanting to be able to destroy my negative emotional states via determination rather than with meds, not what other people do or take.

 

[JUN]

The fact that it is a personal opinion doesn't mean we can't discuss it, this is a forum, after all, and we're here to discuss things (and not in order to post our opinions in a masturbatory way). Besides, I think you're making a wrong decision for yourself and that perhaps you're acting based on wrongly acquired fundamentals, what I said was just a stupid way to point out that your "personal opinion" is badly though of.

 

[Fukyo]

The fact that it is a personal opinion doesn't mean we can't discuss it, this is a forum, after all, and we're here to discuss things (and not in order to post our opinions in a masturbatory way).

Sure thing."personal opinion" is just a disclaimer I put to indicate what I said carries no more weight than "I dislike peas".

 

[JUN]

Sure thing."personal opinion" is just a disclaimer I put to indicate what I said carries no more weight than "I dislike peas".

Actually it does, because when you consider the consequences of not liking peas...

1. oh wow, one less green thing you won't eat.
2. you can find all its nutrients somewhere else, don't bother.

And then you consider the consequences of not wanting to take medication which is helpful.

Oh well, i guess the fact that it is helpful already says it all.

Unless you consider that peas are also helpful because they are healthy, and they help with a healthy diet !

 

[Fukyo]

I agree with you completely.

 

[Melkor]

Oh bleh, you people would argue over black and white.

I asked for half-hearted comments not critical thinking!

 

[Cognisant]

Suffering is not unnatural, it's a behavioural modification mechanism, by repressing this mechanism with drugs you can escape it's sort term influence, only to have it return stronger than before, which leads you back to the drugs, a dangerous cycle I'm sure you'll agree.

The solution is simple, change your behaviour, drastically if need be.
If you want further guidance, I'll require more extensive information.

 

[Ska]

Suffering is not unnatural, it's a behavioural modification mechanism, by repressing this mechanism with drugs you can escape it's sort term influence, only to have it return stronger than before, which leads you back to the drugs, a dangerous cycle I'm sure you'll agree.

The solution is simple, change your behaviour, drastically if need be.
If you want further guidance, I'll require more extensive information.

But if these meds were prescribed to him, isn't there a good chance he should be taking them?

I don't know. I'm certainly not the one to tell you what medicines you should or shouldn't be taking. I know people are prescribed drugs to help them out with their lives every day, but I also know that many people feel the adverse side effects out-weigh the benefits and make them someone they don't want to be, and often times the situation worse.

My advice would be to see whoever gave you these meds and tell them whatever you're experiencing if you're having concerns with it.

If you just took it to get high, then I don't recommend that. I smoke a lot of pot, but I wouldn't purposely get hooked on anything they give you if you don't need it.

 

[EditorOne]

"By which I mean, while it makes sense that I notice a change in mood, it makes no sense that I should be able to comprehend and compare both moods simultaneously."

Why doesn't it make sense? It's not like they are mutually exclusive, and you are, for one reason or another, a very self-aware person.

If you said "experience" both moods simultaneously, OK, makes no sense, but really, "comprehend and compare" Descarte and Locke is not all that tough to wrap yourself around. What's the difference here?

 

[Melkor]

What I mean is, if I consider both moods as being all consuming and distinct personalities, then I shouldn't be able to introspect on one while in the other. Put simply, I'll be too happy when medicated to contemplate the despair of the non-medicated me. For example, when I think of the very thing that irritates me in default mode, while in super-pleased mode, I cannot understand what makes it so depressing, it cannot depress me. This goes beyond acknowl edging, it delves into feeling... Understand editor?

 

[EditorOne]

Yes. Feelings are tough enough without altered states of mind to complicate things.

 

[Beat Mango]

Suffering is not unnatural, it's a behavioural modification mechanism, by repressing this mechanism with drugs you can escape it's sort term influence, only to have it return stronger than before, which leads you back to the drugs, a dangerous cycle I'm sure you'll agree.

Not necessarily. As our psych lecturer told us in Psych 101, repression is not always a bad thing, despite its tarred reputation. Short term repression is in fact very useful. In my opinion, the same applies to medication (although stringently enforced to avoid addiction or escapism, which is seemingly what you're describing). If taking the medication, ie, chemically bypassing the pain/anxiety helps you confront a real life issue, whilst avoiding addiction to that medication, then that has obvious advantages. An example: someone has a chronic phobia of jobseeking, perhaps due to social anxiety, but they are fine once they actually have a job. With medication, they are able to the necessary calls to get a job, and once they get it, they can take themselves off the medication. Here they've avoided the potentially destructive effects of unemployment with no real downside or side-effect.

But it does seem from the cigarette and alcohol threads that INTPs have some sort of aversion to drugs that I can't really relate to. Actually I used to be exactly the same, so I might be projecting my own states of mind there - for me that mentality was based on a kind of pseudo-independence but maybe you have more valid reasons.

 

[Beat Mango]

Melkor, my half-hearted comment : I'm fairly moody and have experienced the same existential confusion as you regarding it. I don't really have anything to add to it though apart from saying that I can relate to it.

 

[snafupants]

It seems like booze preclude anything good emotionally from happening the next day, so stay away from that if self-medicating.

 

[Mondorius]

Sorry, half-hearted and psychology or whatever existential questions I might be pondering does not compute.

Since I love using myself as an example, here goes my story. ( random thought: I swear, if I were a genetic engineer or some sort of inventor, I would totally test things on myself... anyways... )

So, I wasn't diagnosed, but I can tell myself that I used to be deeply depressive. I was full of hatred, I would curse the world, I would sleep for entire days, I stayed home and only ever left if I felt some extreme need. Heck, I would drink maple syrup to survive before going to the grocery, not because I wanted to, but to make the pain of hunger go away. Forget speaking a bit, I would ignore the phone and never talk to anyone unless entirely necessary, even when going out to buy stuff, I wouldn't say a word to clerks or cashiers.

How did I ever deal with it? Well I didn't drink or self-medicate myself in any way. I'll have to admit, I didn't really go through with attempts to snap out of it entirely on my own, even though I'd like to think I did. Since I wouldn't do a damn thing, I ran out of money for the rent and had to return to my father's place and work. I started doing stuff there, not because I felt like it or anything but to buy peace. I did most of what I did to avoid being questionned or even suspected to be depressive.

What helped me? Doing things I didn't usually do. Seriously. Anything. What helped most I would say was yoga, which my father more or less forced me to try, but to be honest, any physical activity should help for a couple of reasons. Makes you sleep better. Makes your brain secrete natural drugs, which allow you to actually think about what makes you depressed without going into hatred, rage, sadness nearly as much. Meditation might help.

Then, with the newfound ability to actually think about my problems without wasting my time on negative emotions, I managed to try things and change myself slowly to fix what depressed me in the first place. I would say, the solution would be to put yourself in a situation where you have to deal with your problems. Breaking the circle of depression => escaping => depression is key.

Now I don't know if any of that applies to you, but I suppose that if you're here asking for ideas, you might wanna give it a try anyway. Worst that could happen is that it won't work.