The Gentle Seduction

[Reverse Transcriptase]

http://www.skyhunter.com/marcs/GentleSeduction.html

Fantastic read! It talks about two people's views on the singularity.

 

[Deleted member 1424]

Thank you Reverse. That story is amazing; I am in awe.


edit:
.......It was written over twenty years ago.

 

[Adymus]

I'm only halfway through the story right now, but this is completely awesome!

It keeps making me get up and pace around my living room.

 

[Anthile]

Like I said on IRC, I found it rather pretentious. Transhumanism saves the day, no annoying side effects!
In this, it sounds more like a religious tract in which someone replaced 'Jesus' with 'Singularity' and so forth.


I know people are going to hate me for this. But then again, it's sometimes hard to distinguish between transhumanists and regular religious fanatics.

 

[loveofreason]

I'm crying.

(re)Attaining this state is the only thing that has ever really mattered.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

Like I said on IRC, I found it rather pretentious. Transhumanism saves the day, no annoying side effects!
In this, it sounds more like a religious tract in which someone replaced 'Jesus' with 'Singularity' and so forth.


I know people are going to hate me for this. But then again, it's sometimes hard to distinguish between transhumanists and regular religious fanatics.

It was first published in 1989. You gotta give some credit to the forethought the author had, although I'm sure transhumanism/singularity was around longer than that.

More importantly, the love aspect? Very nice...

 

[Adymus]

Finally finished...

That was fucking beautiful...



Anthile: You're so not an INFJ...

 

[Words]

Like I said on IRC, I found it rather pretentious. Transhumanism saves the day, no annoying side effects!
In this, it sounds more like a religious tract in which someone replaced 'Jesus' with 'Singularity' and so forth.


I know people are going to hate me for this. But then again, it's sometimes hard to distinguish between transhumanists and regular religious fanatics.

There's just something hard to fully accept in this. Perhaps its that.

 

[Sapphire Harp]

It's a good story, for sure. Many wonderful insights about possibilities in the future and definitely well predicted for its time.

But I don't think it has the most accurate vision of the future. My guess is we're going to impressively improve our capabilities still… but I don't think anyone's mind is would be capable of that kind expansion, even at the furthest edge of the stamina bellcurve, with the best augmentation. I think there will be performance limits that one consciousness just cannot pass...

Also I don't think living forever is going to occur. I think the stresses and frustrations and ennui of existence will continue to end lives even if their health doesn't do it for them.

And other people. If the young generation is ever going to own anything, it'll have to come from the older ones… and if inheritance doesn't occur naturally anymore, I can see a lot more tension and conflict around.

But, really… I'd bank on self-destructive tendencies managing to frequently overcome even the chance of immortality.

Death is before me today:
like the recovery of a sick man,
like going forth into a garden after sickness.

Death is before me today:
like the odor of myrrh,
like sitting under a sail in a good wind.

Death is before me today:
like the course of a stream;
like the return of a man from the war-galley to his house.

Death is before me today:
like the home that a man longs to see,
after years spent as a captive.

* * * * *
​

It was first published in 1989. You gotta give some credit to the forethought the author had, although I'm sure transhumanism/singularity was around longer than that.

For the curious, but lazy - I know Vernor Vinge is accredited with giving it the name of 'The Singularity'. Wikipedia notes it as happening in 1982, with some precursor ideas about the topic happening as far back as 1958.
​

 

[Vegard Pompey]

It was alright. There was nothing in this story that was new to me. I also felt that it was naive and excessively idyllic.

 

[Cognisant]

That story was very upsetting.

Every day so many die, so many who can never be recovered, their minds lost to the metaphorical void, and in all likelihood I too will probably join them.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

With responses like this, and with sci-fi being mostly targeted at INTs, it's really a wonder that anyone bothers to write science fiction.

 

[loveofreason]

That story was very upsetting.

Every day so many die, so many who can never be recovered, their minds lost to the metaphorical void, and in all likelihood I too will probably join them.

You'll make it.

It brings me no joy saying it... the mere thought of sharing eternity with you...

 

[Cognisant]

200 years from now I'll give you a mind hug for having said that

 

[loveofreason]

200 years from now I'll be thrumming with covetous anticipation.

 

[Sapphire Harp]

With responses like this, and with sci-fi being mostly targeted at INTs, it's really a wonder that anyone bothers to write science fiction.

Hmm... What are you getting at here, RT?
​

 

[Jesin]

200 years from now I'll give you a mind hug for having said that

200 years from now I'll be thrumming with covetous anticipation.

I want in on this, mind hugs are awesome.

But I don't think it has the most accurate vision of the future. My guess is we're going to impressively improve our capabilities still… but I don't think anyone's mind is would be capable of that kind expansion, even at the furthest edge of the stamina bellcurve, with the best augmentation. I think there will be performance limits that one consciousness just cannot pass...​

Eh, what counts as consciousness anyway, though?

And if it's impossible to live forever, why not die trying to make it possible?

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

Hmm... What are you getting at here, RT?
​

I'm saying INTPs are a bunch of ugrateful editors. Can't just let a short story be what it is.

 

[Decaf]

Personally, I'd hate to read a piece of science fiction that didn't pretend to be the way things actually turn out in the future. What would be the point? I don't think the author thinks that's for certain how its going to be, but its certainly an interesting journey, and I got teary eyed at the end despite knowing precisely what was going to happen. You don't have to be an optimist to enjoy a story that is clearly optimistic.

I loved it.

 

[loveofreason]

I'm saying INTPs are a bunch of ugrateful editors. Can't just let a short story be what it is.

Bunch of party-pooping nit-pickers! Flay the lot of them!

I want in on this, mind hugs are awesome.

 

[saffyangelis]

Most definitely interestings, and a nice story ^_^

The girl's attitude at the start seems to be the main attitude I've come across when trying to explain transhumanism and the singularity to various people (Well, they /did/ ask what I was reading about... =P) and rather than becoming accustomed to the new technology like she did, I think that there's a good chance that the earth may end up being divided between those who do use it, and those who don't =/ t'would've been interestings to read about that too, I think. (/random)

Out of us lot though, who here is on the same side as the girl at the start, and who sides with Jack? *is being curious*

 

[Decaf]

Out of us lot though, who here is on the same side as the girl at the start, and who sides with Jack? *is being curious*

I identified with Jack for a number of reasons (aside from being a technologist and male). That story is representative of how I try to show love to others. How I wish it could happen. That I could make an impact that has a clear positive affect on them. I don't need to be there when it happens, or hear their thanks. Just knowing it would actually work out that way is enough.

Sadly the confidence he shows in his prophecy is nothing like what I feel. I constantly question if I'm being self-destructive in the moment for the hope of the future that will never happen. Willing to sacrifice myself, yet in the end doing as much damage as good. The culmination of his efforts made me tear up, probably for numerous reasons, but that's clearly one. Just imagining that my intent could be fully realized.

 

[Deleted member 1424]

I relate quite strongly with both character, actually. I share Jack's enthusiasm, optimistic vision and his fear that he'll miss the singularity. However like 'she' (they never give her a name......) I feel we need to approach it with caution and wisdom. I'm not afraid, but there is the potential for things to go drastically awry.

A long time ago someone also told me that while they would certainly miss the singularity, I was young enough to still have a chance. Reading that beginning conversation was like deja vu.

sidenote: I can't get over the fact they didn't name her. Seriously though, they gave the dog a name, but not her. I suppose the author did this so the audience could easily imagine themselves as her, but everything else about her character was so individualized. ...and then there is the tendency of certain types of classic literature (in the middle ages at least) to leave even integral female leads unnamed.

Why do you all think she doesn't have a name?

 

[Sapphire Harp]

I'm saying INTPs are a bunch of ugrateful editors. Can't just let a short story be what it is.

Why don't you show us how it is done, then, RT? A demonstration of appreciation of more than a sentence.
​

Eh, what counts as consciousness anyway, though?

And if it's impossible to live forever, why not die trying to make it possible?

I don't begin to think I have an answer to the first part... Consciousness seems like the most enigmatic thing we have available to ponder, sometimes.

But having been won over by reincarnationists - I've inevitably started viewing the attempt to live forever as... odd. That's just my own spiritual delusion, though. Still, even if the physical health problems of age are cracked, I think people will still grow old in weariness...

* * * * *
​

Out of fairness, I didn't find either character relatable, by the by.
​

 

[Kuu]

A nice story, nothing really amazing in terms of storytelling and plot, but I always find it interesting to read people's inspired visions of the future and compare/contrast them to my own.

I love a good visionary, I can't get enough of that feeling of 'oh wow this was written in (date)!' Like my obsession with Antonio Sant'Elia (amazingly prophetic manifesto...)

 

[Cavallier]

I thought this story was beautiful and I enjoyed the journey "she" went on. However, I took issue with much of it.

While I found Jack idealistic, fascinating, and inspired I ultimately found him irritating and condescending. It's his vision not hers and I find it profoundly dictatorial. It makes perfect sense that she's never given a name.* She never really does anything on her own terms. She doesn't hold to her principles. While being able to change one's principles based on acquired knowledge is the sign of a wise being, completely letting go of all of one's principles simply because he/she doesn't want to shovel the snow is petty. The first choice she makes ends with her giving up. She gives up the stance she's held her entire life and takes the pill. With this decision she quickly becomes nothing more than a floating consciousness whose experiences are only filtered through a cache of memories. She is practically a non entity. Only through her specific collection of memories does she have personality. She doesn't grow beyond that. I take back what I said. She's not a floating consciousness but a floating broken record. What is the point of transhumanism if there is no growth? What's the point of anything if there is no growth? Without growth there is stagnation and death.

Also, why must technology (and more specifically Jack's technology) be necessary for this transformation? How do we know she wouldn't have simply reached this state through the death of her 95 year old body? No, she must reach her ultimate state of being through his means. Anthile is not the only one who see religion here. How is Jack's "I love you" any different from Christ's?

*(Though I mean this more metaphorically then practically. Obviously the author didn't give her a name so that she might be identifiable with a wide audience. I'm sure if the author was able the author would have made "she" genderless.)

Edit: I feel like I should add this: I do think the author did a wonderful job of bringing his/her story to life. It was vivid and it did bring out emotion in me. I only wish I was not cursed with wanting individual strength in one's principles over theology.

 

[ashitaria]

That was a freakin awesome story.

It made my day.

 

[Sapphire Harp]

sidenote: I can't get over the fact they didn't name her. Seriously though, they gave the dog a name, but not her. I suppose the author did this so the audience could easily imagine themselves as her, but everything else about her character was so individualized. ...and then there is the tendency of certain types of classic literature (in the middle ages at least) to leave even integral female leads unnamed.

Why do you all think she doesn't have a name?

I can't spot a reason other than the one you've mentioned, Nyx. Supposed to help you be her, I guess. Didn't seem to work, in my case, but I won't harp on anymore...

I did want to suggest the name "Jill" for her, though. I mean... We have Jack and a hill (mountain), already. That seems to me appropriately quaint for the story. And Jill is a fine name for an 'everywoman/man.'

...wow. Pun alert.
​

 

[Himself]

What a nice little story. Kinda struck me as the miniature offspring of Iain M. Banks' Culture novels and Charles Stross' Accelerando.