Suicide

[MissQuote]

These sorts of threads annoy me, as well.

It is like a philosophical romanticisation of a subject one ought, by all means, to have strong feelings on, but par for the course what is mostly discussed seems to serve only peacocking over how aloof and objective we all can be.

 

[Roni]

Am I the only one disturbed by the gross presumptions pervading this thread?
..
You know nothing

The presumptions here seem less gross to me than the ones I usually see in suicide discussions. I was actually thinking INTPs seem to have more empathy for this topic than the general population.

But you are right - we know nothing.
Suicide isn't a pathogen with neatly defined properties. It can't be discussed as a general topic without making (possibly offensive) generalisations.

The only way to know what an individual is experiencing is to ask them, accepting whatever they tell you as their reality at that point in time.

If anyone reading these general comments is feeling frustrated their own experience hasn't been 'heard' I hope they recognise their need to talk and act on it.

If anyone contribuiting general comments is feeling incompetent to deal with suicidal ideation in the real world I recommend doing a suicide 'first aid' course like LivingWorks.

And if there's INTPs on here bereaved by suicide (even if it was decades ago) and thinking they can figure it all out on their own or by reading online forums, from one INTP to another: you can't.
You have to talk to someone. Use an anonymous helpline if you prefer, but talk to someone.

 

[Orja]

I can understand why this is a sensitive topic, and why it should be handled with some care. However, when we discourage discussion, it simultaneously acts to worsen and oversimplify the issue. For that very reason, suicide should be discussed. As with any other subject, there are differences of opinion. There will be people with significant personal experiences, and people with none. Callous responses and passionate ones. They all add depth.

I have one strong belief regarding suicide: no person has the right to tell another how much he or she must suffer.

An elderly person may commit suicide by choosing to quit a life-saving therapy. Few would condemn the choice. People understand that he or she is in pain and that there is no better solution. The suffering is easy to see and the decision, while difficult for the family, is reasonable. The family mourns the loss of a loved one and they continue with their lives.

Suicide is most often viewed negatively when there were “alternatives”. It is true that depression can fog a person's mind. It can render a person unable to see other options. Cultural world views can function similarly. For example, a student with mental health issues may consider suicide because of personal, academic, social, and/or familial distress. He or she might feel so hurt and alone that suicide would seem the only option. Of course, there may be a plethora of options to change his or her circumstances. With help, or with an open mind, the student may see this. Alone, with a mind narrowed by depression or world view, it is unlikely. But the fact remains that the person is suffering and may reach a point when he or she can no longer handle the distress. Demonizing the person or the choice only increases the pain.

 

[MissQuote]

Some problems when trying to discuss a subject like suicide is what seems like a tendency to lump all of it together, all forms and reasons for it and all age groups.

There is a pretty big difference from an elderly person suffering terminal illness choosing to die in a way they choose and with dignity, and a forty-ish person who has suffered from mental afflictions until they become too much and a young teenager that has so little experience in years in life that they can have no idea how vastly different things can and will be in just a manor of a time.

And what about murder-suicides? Or political suicides? Or group suicides?

I've lost my charger, dammit. I can't finish this line of thought right now.

 

[MichiganJFrog]

I read Why People Die by Suicide a few years ago. I feel like it gave me a lot insights. I remember one of the big factors driving this action is a "thwarted sense of belongingness."

As an aside, when I clicked on the link from Google to Amazon, in the upper-right hand corner it said, "Just in time for Father's Day!"

 

[Deleted member 1424]

This is like trying to explain the function of knees to a dolphin.

Suicide is not good. Suicide is not bad. As with all things perspective is what makes it so. Suicide can be altruistic, neutral, rebellious, vengeful; suicide can be rational or irrational. Indeed, cold hard rationality would dictate that life and non-life possess the same value. It's only when people start shoving their subjectivity down other people's throats that these new associations reach cultural critical mass and people start to vomit them up instinctually. Suicide is just yet another choice that humans can make, with it's own ramifications.

or perhaps I'm just strangely dispassionate and desensitized.

Indeed suicide has been a common theme in my thought patterns since childhood; just not in the tragic sense. As a child I wanted very ardently to be with God and was quite disappointed to learn that committing suicide was an unforgivable sin (oh the church is just so damn clever, you have to admire it sometimes. Any truly faithful (and logical) person would off themselves immediately if they could). How I wished I had thought to die before I reached the 'age of accountability.' Sometime later I had come to believe that God was real, but evil. I had also been taught that what was saved, could never be unsaved and I was very distressed about the thought of going to heaven. Suicide was my answer to this, a loophole, the only way I could protest such an indomitable force like God. Had I not become Atheist, I probably would've killed myself.

That's two examples of suicidal thought, that comes nowhere near the 'losing the will to live,' insurmountable despair archetypes that everyone seems to presuppose. I can think of dozens of scenarios that wouldn't fit such 2-dimensional thought.

If life is inherently Sisyphean and a person kills themselves, simply because they tire of it... Is this a tragedy or a happy ending? Is it selfish? If their family benefits does that make it selfless? Is a suicidal individual automatically mentally ill? Is there a difference between suicide and self sacrifice?

and what if you can't live ethically? I am a US citizen. My country is an engine of war, ignorance and consumption; it's grotesque nature grows by the day. As a 'successful person' I'm supporting this engine, and as an unsuccessful person I'm a drain on resources.

Heh
Everybody wants a turn on the soap box, but the only
suicide you have any say in, is your own.

 

[ObliviousGenius]

It's really easy to point out all the differences of each cause of suicide, but no one seems to notice the similarity with all people who go through with it.

Despair

It takes a measure of despair to take one's own life. When a person commits suicide they come to the conclusion that they have exhausted all other options and none else remain. There's no way out. The only way to escape this suspended cage is to cut out the bottom and fall through. The most irrational emotions and cold-hard logic both lead to despair.

It is the driving force that has the most influence on whether a person goes through with it or not. The only way to turn back is to summon hope from wherever it comes from. As I alluded to earlier, it's hard to see the other options in such a big hole.

 

[gedanken]

has a way of knowing how many succeeded? hahahaha
i also think about suicide, but this is a funny interesting question

 

[snafupants]

This is like trying to explain the function of knees to a dolphin.

Suicide is not good. Suicide is not bad. As with all things perspective is what makes it so. Suicide can be altruistic, neutral, rebellious, vengeful; suicide can be rational or irrational. Indeed, cold hard rationality would dictate that life and non-life possess the same value. It's only when people start shoving their subjectivity down other people's throats that these new associations reach cultural critical mass and people start to vomit them up instinctually. Suicide is just yet another choice that humans can make, with it's own ramifications.

or perhaps I'm just strangely dispassionate and desensitized.

Indeed suicide has been a common theme in my thought patterns since childhood; just not in the tragic sense. As a child I wanted very ardently to be with God and was quite disappointed to learn that committing suicide was an unforgivable sin (oh the church is just so damn clever, you have to admire it sometimes. Any truly faithful (and logical) person would off themselves immediately if they could). How I wished I had thought to die before I reached the 'age of accountability.' Sometime later I had come to believe that God was real, but evil. I had also been taught that what was saved, could never be unsaved and I was very distressed about the thought of going to heaven. Suicide was my answer to this, a loophole, the only way I could protest such an indomitable force like God. Had I not become Atheist, I probably would've killed myself.

That's two examples of suicidal thought, that comes nowhere near the 'losing the will to live,' insurmountable despair archetypes that everyone seems to presuppose. I can think of dozens of scenarios that wouldn't fit such 2-dimensional thought.

If life is inherently Sisyphean and a person kills themselves, simply because they tire of it... Is this a tragedy or a happy ending? Is it selfish? If their family benefits does that make it selfless? Is a suicidal individual automatically mentally ill? Is there a difference between suicide and self sacrifice?

and what if you can't live ethically? I am a US citizen. My country is an engine of war, ignorance and consumption; it's grotesque nature grows by the day. As a 'successful person' I'm supporting this engine, and as an unsuccessful person I'm a drain on resources.

Heh
Everybody wants a turn on the soap box, but the only
suicide you have any say in, is your own.

Am I the only one disturbed by the gross presumptions pervading this thread?

Spouting halfthought, simplistic clichés as if they were profound wisdom...

Typical kneejerk western responses.

You know nothing.

 

[Deleted member 1424]

You DARE use pink!

A bit uninspired, though don't you think?
Anyway if you wish to fling mud, do so elsewhere and I'd happily engage you.
No place in a suicide thread.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

How I wished I had thought to die before I reached the 'age of accountability.'

I had similar thoughts, back when I was young and a Christian. I don't think I actually wanted to die, but I did think a lot about sin and my behavior and thoughts being judged once and after that day finally came, and how babies who died in birth and early on were lucky, when it came to going to heaven or hell.


Now that I think about it, organized religion really is a problem if it's causing such thoughts in the minds of young children.

 

[Jennywocky]

I never cared about dying before the age of accountability, I basically had just wished I had never been born at all and thus wouldn't have to make such weighty decisions. Once you're born into this world, you don't get a real escape button if there is a spiritual reality; you're stuck.

I appreciate the comment above mine, that if religion is making children think about such crazy stuff, there's probably something wrong with the idea.

Here's a story. When I was attending Sunday school around age of 8, I remember a story about a little girl who got saved and whose mom had died, so she was just living with her dad. Her dad was a nice guy but did not want to believe... especially because his wife had died. On their property (out on the woods), there was a small chasm crossed by a rock. She had been told never to run across the rock because it was unstable and she might fall and be badly hurt.

At some point in the story (do you see the end coming?), she makes her dad promise that if she dies before he does, he'll choose to believe in God and become a Christian, so he wouldn't spend eternity in hell. he thinks the idea is silly, so he agrees.

Whereupon she runs across the property and across the rock. The rock falls. The girl disappears into the chasm. Her dad climbs down. She dies in his arms after saying how much she loves him. He breaks down and remembers his promise and becomes a believer, as his daughter loved him so much that she died so that he might not spend eternity in hell.

This is what was being taught to eight-year-olds. It's funny that I never forgot that story.

No place in a suicide thread.

Why not?
I don't think the thread is based on a cry for help, it's a philosophical discussion of the pro's and con's and meritable foundations of a choice to suicide (if any such thing exists), so I'd expect if not here, then where?

Am I the only one disturbed by the gross presumptions pervading this thread?

Spouting halfthought, simplistic clichés as if they were profound wisdom...

Typical kneejerk western responses.

Which parts of his post did you find particularly despicable?

 

[snafupants]

Why not?
I don't think the thread is based on a cry for help, it's a philosophical discussion of the pro's and con's and meritable foundations of a choice to suicide (if any such thing exists), so I'd expect if not here, then where?



Which parts of his post did you find particularly despicable?

I must disavow credit for those clumsy words. In truth, each pink word is Adaire's from an earlier, theatrically caustic post. Since her second post presented an unbridgeably and irresistibly paradoxical irony, in that she became what she previously criticized, I decided to crib and apply her earlier words.

 

[Jennywocky]

I must disavow credit for those clumsy words. In truth, each pink word is Adaire's from an earlier, theatrically caustic post. Since her second post presented an unbridgeably and irresistibly paradoxical irony, in that she became what she previously criticized, I decided to crib and apply her earlier words.

Ah... The pink did seem odd to me, it didn't seem like your normal visual idiom.

Okay, then that's funny!

 

[ObliviousGenius]

You DARE use pink!

A bit uninspired, though don't you think?
Anyway if you wish to fling mud, do so elsewhere and I'd happily engage you.
No place in a suicide thread.

Lol.

Whoah, I'd recommend charm school.

 

[LcDel]

I think that we should all be able to discuss this topic calmly and without all of the anger and accusations that have been flying about.
No, we have not all experienced suicide, or attempting it, anyway. That doesn't mean that we--those who have never attempted--cannot form an opinion on the matter. Those who have attempted may consider it an incorrect opinion, but that is merely their opinion of an opinion. My point being, this entire thread is and should be left a gray area, so there is no right and wrong.

Anyway, I personally have had a few times when I've been in a state completely devoid of emotion and have thought to myself, "This is what suicide would feel like. If I were to kill myself, I would do it feeling this way."
However, I have never attempted, and I know I never could, for the same reason why I don't cut. I recognize when I am in a state that will cause me to make irrational decisions, so I prevent myself from making any decisions at all--I go read a book or sit down and just think--until I know that I can be rational again. Or as rational as a human can be, anyway.

 

[Manic]

Suicide isn't something to be judged; it isn't a moral issue or matter of courage. The overwhelming majority of people who commit suicide--about 90% according to National Institute of Mental Health statistics--suffer from serious mental illness, especially bi-polar disorder (manic-depression), unipolar major depressive disorder and schizophrenia, or substance abuse, which is often associated with the mental illness. Most of them have suffered for many years before they kill themselves.


Although I haven't actively considered suicide, several times over the last 30 years, when in the depths of a long depressive cycle, I have wished for death and sometimes put myself in positions where I was at greater risk for dying (shrinks refer to this as "passive suicide ideation"). One thing that has always stopped me is the thought of how it would devastate my family.


If you are interested in this topic, I suggest you read about famous people who committed suicide. The ones I'm most familiar with are writers and artists: Vincent van Gogh, Sylvia Plath, Anne Sexton, Virginia Woolf, Jules Pascin, and scores more. Almost without exception they had serious mental illness over a period of many years until it finally overwhelmed them.

 

[snafupants]

Suicide isn't something to be judged; it isn't a moral issue or matter of courage. The overwhelming majority of people who commit suicide--about 90% according to National Institute of Mental Health statistics--suffer from serious mental illness, especially bi-polar disorder (manic-depression), unipolar major depressive disorder and schizophrenia, or substance abuse, which is often associated with the mental illness. Most of them have suffered for many years before they kill themselves.


Although I haven't actively considered suicide, several times over the last 30 years, when in the depths of a long depressive cycle, I have wished for death and sometimes put myself in positions where I was at greater risk for dying (shrinks refer to this as "passive suicide ideation"). One thing that has always stopped me is the thought of how it would devastate my family.


If you are interested in this topic, I suggest you read about famous people who committed suicide. The ones I'm most familiar with are writers and artists: Vincent van Gogh, Sylvia Plath, Anne Sexton, Virginia Woolf, Jules Pascin, and scores more. Almost without exception they had serious mental illness over a period of many years until it finally overwhelmed them.

That sentiment's frequently trotted out, but perhaps the concerned family's inability or unwillingness to help the depressed person is more shameful, more devastating even, than the depressed person wanting to end the pain.

 

[Manic]

That sentiment's frequently trotted out, but perhaps the concerned family's inability or unwillingness to help the depressed person is more shameful, more devastating even, than the depressed person wanting to end the pain.

I'm sure that happens and is a shame. People can be callous about things through ignorance or because they've been indoctrinated with nonsense. Fortunately, that doesn't apply in my case because one parent and 3 out of 4 siblings have had serious mental problems. One is schizophrenic, the other two have suffered from depression all their lives, as has my spouse. So there's no lack of sympathy; but that doesn't mean it wouldn't devastate them, as it would me if one of them committed suicide.

 

[HDINTP]

I used to think about suicide but i don't think i would ever do that. I think that person that made suicide wasn't just able to cope with this so called reality somehow so chose to meant in mind of that person to help itself out of that. I think that they lost harmony between their physical and mental functioning.

 

[asuicidalclown]

I contemplate suicide more often than I would like to admit. Whether it is deemed cowardly is on the shoulders of the viewer/interpreter. I just grow weary and I don't think I can emphasize that enough. I'm just really, really tired and in moments of weakness I fantasize about the true peace (I perceive) in death. When your material ceases to be organized in a way to "store" information you will have no concept of "good" or "bad" and I just grow tired of my inward struggle, both between me and myself and between me and others/society to the point where it is tempting. Even if I know I wont go through with it. This is where I tend to go down what some might call a "Buddhist" path of thought in which I just "let go" of my personally biased and subjective bullcrap and try to enjoy the experience; both negative and positive. That seems to be my only final choice in my current situation.

 

[Intellect]

Depression runs in my family and, while I doubt I would ever actually commit suicide, I have hit some pretty low points where I've thought about it.

I always snap out of it, though. There's too much to experience in life to want to cut it short.

 

[Antediluvian]

I contemplate suicide nearly every day, because of what kind of person I know I am. That said, I can see the potential gaping hole others might leave by that action. I don't condemn suicide, but they merely are the equivalent of illuminating a dark room for me.

 

[EditorOne]

"Peacocking." How apt. Nice image, good word use. :-)
Meanwhile: I wonder if any have contemplated choosing suicide simply because they reach the ultimate INTP boredom level, nothing left to explore, or at least it seems that way? I haven't even come close but then, I'm easily amused. I can see someone like me, though much more intellectually gifted, eventually coming to a conclusion that while there might be new topics and new knowledge and new experiences, none of them will generate any new thoughts, insights or epiphanies for him/her, therefore the boredom is inescapable. That's a depressing circumstance.

 

[Antediluvian]

"Peacocking." How apt. Nice image, good word use. :-)
Meanwhile: I wonder if any have contemplated choosing suicide simply because they reach the ultimate INTP boredom level, nothing left to explore, or at least it seems that way? I haven't even come close but then, I'm easily amused. I can see someone like me, though much more intellectually gifted, eventually coming to a conclusion that while there might be new topics and new knowledge and new experiences, none of them will generate any new thoughts, insights or epiphanies for him/her, therefore the boredom is inescapable. That's a depressing circumstance.

I think I read somewhere that the profoundly gifted more often have mental issues than the moderately gifted. I'm not sure if that has been substantiated, and it is hard to say such a thing is causal.

 

[nexion]

If I were to vote now, I would most definitely change my answer. I suspect that I lied when I answered it the first time anyway.

 

[asuicidalclown]

To me what is most depressing is the way we are conducting ourselves as a species. My intense INTP and insight into the inner workings of society and it's structure (because that's one of my interests) has led me to a path of what I feel is realistic cynicism. If I actually didn't have empathy or care about the next generation of our species I think I would be as right as rain. That's about it. Empathy for future generations makes me depressed. Funny how empathy causes depression, however I might be a lone case even among INTP's.

 

[walfin]

Thought about it a lot (quite constantly at one point); think I won't dare to do it.

I'm more afraid of how I'd feel (who knows, maybe there's pain from the sleeping pills, internal rupture or something) than death itself.

 

[addictedartist]

has anyone stopped a suicide?
The only thing that ever stopped me was the fact that nobody could possibly stop me,
even (especially) if they tried, I want to live long enough for others to try to save me from death, as an artist I am atrociously morbid and cynical however my opinion of death would be the punctuation to the meaning of life~!
I am inclined to believe the perception of death is crucial in the judgement of life,
which is to say; can you kill someone by an accident or do they die by the accident?
what greater mystery of life is there than the indefinite nature of death and the transcription of an individuals purpose within their community 'afterlife'!

 

[Jennywocky]

Meanwhile: I wonder if any have contemplated choosing suicide simply because they reach the ultimate INTP boredom level, nothing left to explore, or at least it seems that way? I haven't even come close but then, I'm easily amused. I can see someone like me, though much more intellectually gifted, eventually coming to a conclusion that while there might be new topics and new knowledge and new experiences, none of them will generate any new thoughts, insights or epiphanies for him/her, therefore the boredom is inescapable. That's a depressing circumstance.

I've contemplated such, just never as the primary consideration in a potential suicide; I had other issues that were contributing to despondency. Still, it was a large issue, not one I could easily overlook.

When I'm in a bad-enough depressive mood, there's just this feeling that life is riding the bus/merry-go-round, I've already seen it all at this point (I've been through a lot), and even with new stuff it's not enough to want to keep riding because it never amounts to any substantial change anyway. (Plus, it's not like I'll ever know it "all," so the cutoff point is rather arbitrary... does ending sooner really make a difference than ending later, if you can't learn it all, nothing lasts, and you're going to die regardless?)

 

[Solitaire U.]

As a permanent solution to a permanent problem, it might have merit. Hence, if I ever start coughing up blood or something like that, suicide might become a viable option. That's my Kevorkianist opinion, anyway.

But as a permanent solution to a temporary problem, which appears to be the way in which suicide is most commonly exploited, it doesn't logically add up for me. Of course, I've never considered it from that side of the equation, so who am I to judge?

I guess in summary, all permanent solutions have their merits.

 

[Solitaire U.]

When I'm in a bad-enough depressive mood, there's just this feeling that life is riding the bus/merry-go-round, I've already seen it all at this point (I've been through a lot), and even with new stuff it's not enough to want to keep riding because it never amounts to any substantial change anyway. (Plus, it's not like I'll ever know it "all," so the cutoff point is rather arbitrary... does ending sooner really make a difference than ending later, if you can't learn it all, nothing lasts, and you're going to die regardless?)

No offense, but that's an unnecessarily defeatist view. Life isn't about reaching some arbitrary quota of knowledge or experience. Why not find contentment riding life's train of little pleasures, and let it stop where it will.

Hmmm...I'm a really bad poet...

 

[Jennywocky]

No offense, but that's an unnecessarily defeatist view. Life isn't about reaching some arbitrary quota of knowledge or experience. Why not find contentment riding life's train of little pleasures, and let it stop where it will.

What I posted is not indicative of my typical mindstate, as I said.
(Which is another way of saying, "Yes, I agree.")

 

[Reluctantly]

Hello again suicide threads.

hhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, suicide. Can you taste it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDQ2LIBNBkI

 

[redbaron]

I have to be at work in less than 2 hours, and I haven't slept in 36.

Suicide sounds like a pretty viable alternative right now.

 

[Vladimir]

I thought the last one said "I have already committed suicide." Everyone has thought about suicide at one point, right?

 

[DeadonDreaming]

Am I the only one disturbed by the gross presumptions pervading this thread?

Spouting halfthought, simplistic clichés as if they were profound wisdom...

Typical kneejerk western responses.

You know nothing.

 

[intpz]

INTPs seem to be depressive creatures.

 

[Reluctantly]

INTPs seem to be depressive creatures.

Why do you think that is?

 

[Moocow]

I'm a bit afraid of suicidality, as a mental illness. I have a possibly irrational fear that I'll make the decision to kill myself one day in the temporary absence of higher reasoning and foresight. Or maybe, that something will push me to that end. I don't think of it consciously as something that I want to do but there appears to be a riot of unconscious voices that fills me with anxiety. I have experienced complete mental shifts backed by extreme emotions which I feel could manifest one day in a form that involves suicidality. I think this may be, in part, my idealistic but honest thinking coming up with a real solution to the total summation of my anxieties. I just have to tell it "no, that's against the rules."

 

[Reluctantly]

I just have to tell it "no, that's against the rules."

heh. I like you.

 

[intpz]

Why do you think that is?

They follow and adapt instead of taking charge and ordering around?

 

[hopeandpray]

I voted that I have considered it but that's not really correct. I would never kill myself. However when I was very depressed I used to hope I would die. I thought that I deserved the suffering I was going through though set forced myself to live as a punishment. those were my dark and twisty days.

 

[Santiago]

Can we have a "I committed suicide" option

 

[Niclmaki]

Did you ever walk up to the edge of a cliff?
Stare into the abyss as your mind wonders if
You should take one more step further into that night
Well, your mind says you won't but your heart says you might

Would you fall through the dark, feel the wind in your hair?
Would you embrace the ground and end your life right there?
Or would God reach His hand and that moment you fly
Or if He chanced to blink and then that moment you die.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjFTpBH56WM

 

[kvothe27]

When I read threads like this, what I often see are people flinging their emotions at each other under the guise of reason. I include myself in that. Is there an objective ethical reason to not commit suicide without having to make a lot of baseless assumptions? It troubles me to think that the only reasons I continue living are instinct, emotion, and possibly the disapproval of my family.


It often seems that how rational suicide may seem depends upon my emotional state. I would much prefer to use a principle. I don't believe in anything supernatural, so it's that much more difficult to counteract suicide ideation. It's as though I have nothing to grab onto. I find myself contemplating suicide frequently.

Curiosity drives these thoughts as much as depression. I want to know what it's like to be in a state in which I'll never know again. I want to wrap my head around something I'll never entirely be able to wrap my head around. I want to experience contradiction.

 

[Sorlaize]

It troubles me to think that the only reasons I continue living are instinct, emotion

It's never "just" some simple framework, such that you could devalue your life by thinking about this stuff. Like, "are we in a Matrix?" .. that would change absolutely nothing about what our concept of "life" has always been about, and what it has entailed. It only seems disturbing, and it only has the chance to cause disruptions within the whole of society which would then change the perceived value of life, or whatever. But it's the same as it's always been. Peoples' decisions for living, logically may be thin; but that's only because you are grossly oversimplifying with reductionist type thinking.

Life is incredibly complex and forever wondrous for the individual. Have you ever heard a phrase to the effect of "I looked at some water and I knew everything" ?


--

It often seems that how rational suicide may seem depends upon my emotional state.

For me, I have depressive phases, incredibly so. I think about the nature of reality, and the fact I have no real existence in a universal scope, which I think, is something I'm really not happy with now that I found out. I feel like my whole life I've been lied to by society; being told I could achieve something big.

Sure, rationally, suicide would be the thing to do. I mean; I'm just one consciousness on Earth. Sure, I don't have a lot of empirical value, whichever way you swing it. In fact, I shouldn't even waste my time being sad about it. But, you don't have a complete logical reason to commit suicide until you can quantify and understand what you are actually doing; what is actually "in the balance" with your life and experience and the complexity of all society and what, therefore, any of it could "mean". Which is something we will never be able to do 'in a million years', by very nature of owning ourselves and our thoughts. That's the "magic" of life. You have something that cannot be explained. Life exists, and yet it it produced from seemingly nothing / an accessible biological process. What does it mean to be you? Nobody can answer that.

You have, as an individual in our massively insanely complex society-- you have an opportunity to enjoy life and to be something unique.

Well, here we have the central problem of existence. What is it? How do we go about deciding what it is? As I said, this can never be truly empirically answered. It's up to you. As senseless that seems;- our society *cannot* have any human meaning. It is far too complex and absurd. So, it can *only ever* fall to whoever makes the decision. It becomes a subjective decision. Experience is subjective, and you can never really put into words or coherent thought what kind of a difference it makes to humanity, in reality before we factor in emotions/public outcry etc, whether one person dies in place of another in our very large human world.


--

I would much prefer to use a principle. I don't believe in anything supernatural, so it's that much more difficult to counteract suicide ideation. It's as though I have nothing to grab onto. I find myself contemplating suicide frequently.

Curiosity drives these thoughts as much as depression. I want to know what it's like to be in a state in which I'll never know again. I want to wrap my head around something I'll never entirely be able to wrap my head around. I want to experience contradiction.

To be honest I like entertaining suicide, just because. Haha.

 

[MsAnthropy_Indefatigably]

I think I've come to realize that suicide or the act of it, is really viewed differently by different cultures and I'm in no position to tell others whether they believe they should live or die. But the idea of killing one's self to avoid public humiliation, embarrassment or punishment is unacceptable, TO ME.

I would never commit suicide, because I'm afraid of what I would miss while I'm gone. It's like if someone gave you a ticket for a trip around the world and instead of taking the whole trip, you decided to bail because the food was salty.

 

[MsAnthropy_Indefatigably]

Did you ever walk up to the edge of a cliff?
Stare into the abyss as your mind wonders if
You should take one more step further into that night
Well, your mind says you won't but your heart says you might

Would you fall through the dark, feel the wind in your hair?
Would you embrace the ground and end your life right there?
Or would God reach His hand and that moment you fly
Or if He chanced to blink and then that moment you die.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjFTpBH56WM

That's really beautiful! I'd FB it, but people would worry about my mental well-being.... f*$@ing tards....

 

[snafupants]

I think I've come to realize that suicide or the act of it, is really viewed differently by different cultures and I'm in no position to tell others whether they believe they should live or die. But the idea of killing one's self to avoid public humiliation, embarrassment or punishment is unacceptable, TO ME.

Yeah seppuku and literally fatal strictures always seemed ontologically retarded to me. I view life more broadly than cultural relativism or wonkily subjective societal expectations.

As far as I can tell, this may be the only life you get. Why waste it like that, you know?!

Then again, killing yourself via seppuku or something commensurately eviscerating/stupid instills potentially noble lessons for perpetuity.

Meh, I'm too much of a coward to go through with it. I would run.

Hm, half of Cobain's fame stems from the damn suicide. I'm not condoning suicide but it certainly leaves an impact because the public expects stars to sunbathe in photogenic bliss...yeah, the anomaly confuses folks. They wrongly assume fame is this panacea.

The idea of becoming famous scares the crap out of me.