Prude-ism Should Be Banned?

[Cognisant]

Two heterosexual guys can be the absolute best buddies ever, so much so that they're comfortable hugging and expressing their feelings to each other, they can even say "I love you" to each other in a brotherly way.

Alright, get it? They are epic level friends, there is no higher level.
But they're not romantically in love are they?

Friendship that reaches the lofty heights of unabashed brotherly love still isn't the same as romantic love, now I'm not making a comparison, instead I'm defining a boundary, what I'm saying is that love (as in sexual attraction) and friendship (platonic attachment) are at the essential level entirely different.

Of course love rarely occurs without some level of friendship (see island of awesome) and occasionally platonic friends will get drunk and experiment, so I'm not going to deny each is an influencing factor on the other.

Island of awesome:

Spoiler

But if you want a girlfriend or boyfriend to the exclusion of the other then you have to admit that love, unlike friendship, innately biased, and if you're bisexual well you're not going to get randy for a dog are you? ...on second thought don't answer that, to each there own and for the love of <void> I don't want to know.

So anyway (where was I going with this.... aha!) if love and friendship are different things why must we be so stuffy about sex, I mean without all the romanticism it's simply a need just like hunger or thirst, granted not as immediately imperative to one's survival as they but still getting the itch scratched regularly is foundational to being a happy, healthy, well adjusted human being. Considering that it's only natural I believe people should be allowed to openly express their desire for a little TLC (minus the 'c') without fear of being ostracized. Sure back before contraception a prudish attitude was a practical requirement of a functioning society, but times of have changed, the world is different now and our attitudes should be different too.

Now I'm not saying people should simply have more sex, instead I'm saying we should be more mature about how we regard sex, for example if someone is horny they could approach me and ask me if I'd be interested, then if I am happy days, if I'm not so outgoing I could request that we have coffee while I consider it, or if I'm not interested then I can say so and it would be polite to say why, in this case she's drunk and that doesn't turn me on. There's really no reason to make a big song & dance about it or to get offended, if we were really mature about sex then discussing it would as casual as talking about the weather, and as I said if you reject someone or they reject you then the polite thing to do is to explain why so that person (or you) can do something about it.

If I propositioned a girl and she says I should lose some weight or build some muscle that's great constructive criticism because it motivates me to do so, to better myself, whereas if she simply called me ugly or says I smell when I actually don't then that's quite rude, but I don't think many people are like that.

I think if people were honestly mature about sex there would be incredibly few sexually frustrated people in the world and this whole derogatory business of "sluts" would be a thing of the past. Indeed if you think about it monogamy is really quite possessive and paranoid, if a guy finds out his girlfriend has slept with his best friend then things get really ugly really fast. But why? If people were more mature about sex it wouldn't be such a hassle to get laid so he wouldn't feel pressured into being so possessive and when he finds out his girlfriend has slept with his best friend he wouldn't be so bothered by it and if it did make him feel insecure about their relationship they could both reassure him, and probably playfully mock him for being old-fashioned

But what of her vagina you wonder, well what of it?
Contrary to popular hysteria women are not a depreciating resource, the ability of the vagina to stretch can increase but the pelvic floor muscles are what you're going to feel and they can be strengthened by abdominal exercise, just like how hardness can be increased by cardiovascular fitness, the whole virginity thing is ridiculous.

So yeah in summary, prude-ism (that's a word now) should be banned.

 

[Melkor]

Never!

Without my prude nature I would nothing but a living cuddle puddle of hideous nature and form. Such a thought is both disgusting and base!

Prudism is an art form!

Hrm. What kind of dog are we talking here? Huskies are kind hot.

 

[snafupants]

The upper left of that parabolic chart was pretty dope. Oh my god was it dope.

 

[Etheri]

While I can't entirely take this serious, it is an interesting thought. (And it was fun to read, at the very least )

Obviously, the "should be banned" is over the edge, but I see where you got your choice of words from. Prudism shouldn't be banned, people should just grow up and get more mature. Then again, stupidity should be banned aswell, but any practical ideas in that regard would probably make me a neo-nazi. If people want to be sexually frustrated, by all means, it's their own choice.

For the more liberal minded, however, this does sound like a good idea. If everyone had more sex, people would be less bitchy about it, and condoms would be even more implied. Because I ain't going to have unsafe sex with anyone YOU (@Cognisant) had sex with! Problems come from people being immature / stupid (in both their opinions about sex or in having sex in stupid ways.)

As for Island of awesome : Angry make-up sex is not the best way to solve your problems (well it might be ), but it's most certainly good sex. Not sure if this entirely fits within island of awesome, but hey.

While I theoretically agree with your ideas, I don't mind having sex with only one person over a period of time. 'Being faithful' doesn't bother me, or even comes with much effort. As long as they don't mind me watching and thinking, i'm all good. That being said, i'm not really a jealous person myself, but I do expect honesty. I can understand if someone slips (into bed with someone else). I can understand if someone crushes someone else. Don't be mistaken, i'll feel emotionally hurt, but I won't rage over it. I'll question the relationship, but questioning doesn't necessarily mean ending it. What I cannot stand is systematic lies. I expect honesty, I expect truth and openness. Everyone makes mistakes, not everyone can admit them.
(My point in this paragraph being that, I agree with your ideas concerning 'cheating', however I only need one person to fix my 'desire for sex'. I don't mind being loyal to them, so the problem doesn't arise.)

 

[Cognisant]

Because I ain't going to have unsafe sex with anyone YOU had sex with!

Well that's just rude

Everyone makes mistakes, not everyone can admit them.

No no no hold up! Why is it a mistake?
We only get one life and one body so people should be allowed to do what they want with it, if your partner wants to have a go with someone else who are you to deny that, now I'm not saying monogamy is wrong, what I'm saying is that the expectation of monogamy (that you automatically assume your partner having sex with someone else is a mistake) is wrong.

Now sure you can be perfectly happy in monogamy, it's possible, but y'know there's A LOT of situations where you get couples who don't like each other anymore but they're together because it's easier than going through the whole dating thing again, whereas in a world without prude-ism I imagine the transition between relationships would be smooth & easy, people wouldn't be so entrapped by each other, indeed non-binary relationships would become common if not the norm.

Viva la revolution!
Ban prude-ism! (which isn't the same as banning monogamy)

 

[Vladimir]

Is there an underlying reason for this stand? You ever read Patrick Rothfuss' "The Name of the Wind?" There is a society with a whole different perspective on this than the general one, one you would agree with. But that's a negligible part of the book, it's a fantasy book you should read NOW!!

I, however, agree with Etheri. Although I'm 17 and unmarried, I personally, even more so as an INTP, think that I would only be able to have one partner: my wife. The thought of my wife with others is appalling, and I wish for honesty and faith, like Etheri said.

Lol, what do you think it would take to make a change like this/. In the USA??

 

[Cognisant]

Is there an underlying reason for this stand?

I just like to fuck with people

The thought of my wife with others is appalling, and I wish for honesty and faith, like Etheri said.

I call patriarchy! Who are you to have such expectations?

Lol, what do you think it would take to make a change like this/. In the USA??

Well yes the US is a particularly backwards & barbaric country, but not all the states are so uncivilised, I imagine if the anti-prude movement took root anywhere it would quickly spread, though there will always be enclaves of those determined not to change their ways.

 

[Da Blob]

Ho Hum!

If there was a planet that whose sole inhabitants were intelligent, semi-compassionate INTPians, then discussions like these would seem more realistic. However, we live in a world with a lot of stupid barbaric people to whom the idea of deferred gratification was always a bit beyond the limits of their cognition.

Even in countries when birth control is available, these stupid people do not use it. instead only the intelligent people practice birth control. The basic problem with this is that intelligent humans are quickly becoming an endangered subspecies, with the birth rates of the stupid increasing at a dramatic rate and the birth rates of the intelligent in an equally dramatic decline.

The fall of civilization is almost a given if this scenario continues. The thing about "prudish societies" is that that have been proven to work on a multigenerational scale for thousands of years, but this current experiment with non-prudish standards for the stupid does not provide any evidence or even logic as to how it actually could work for more than a couple of generations, even then only while sheltered from reality by those very same prudish societies that are the targets of ridicule and derision.

Unbridled Hedonism simply does not provide a foundation for a stable society.

 

[Deleted member 1424]

Never figured you for an Idiocracy fan Blob.

 

[MissQuote]

I like the last paragraph of that the best. Good job. (or something)

I've never understood the obsession people have with getting so overwhelmingly upset over their partner/love interest messing with someone else (physically) I can understand the practical reasons why a person may want to get upset,( i.e; being unknowingly exposed to disease by the other playing around, the chance of pregnancy and all that trouble occurring outside the relationship, perhaps the feeling that they would have like to do it and then that butthead ran off and di it with someone else) but the reactions people have, the sheer outlandish jealousy with all its show of nuances and grandeur of affect is just confounding to me. Always has been.

If you ask a person caught in one of these fits Why they feel this way they won't give any practical reason as for why aside from that they were Betrayed. But why does being Betrayed in such a way bother you so much? Why do you consider it a betrayal in the first place. I don't think most people can answer these questions. I must conclude that they were simply taught that this is the way to feel and act when ones sweetie runs off and kisses someone else. And the people who taught them were taught by those before them and so on.

Maybe there is some instinctual stuff going on as well, but that still does not account for the real overreactions some (a lot) of people will have. Or does it?

I think the thing that gets me is why be so concerned over a physical act, that doesn't harm anyone physically? (I mean unless things get really rowdy)

I think what I am getting at is, I've been cheated on before, and it wasn't the act of sex that happened that bothered me. It was the lack of honesty. there wasn't any obsessing over, maybe a little annoyed thinking about, but no torment, over the act itself that happened. It was over everything else that came with it, is what bothered me.

Now I've also been the person to cheat, and it really seemed like, although I was told it was the lack of honesty, it really wasn't. There seemed to be an overabundance of pain over the fact that I willingly was touched by and touched another person.

(by the way, I am talking about the distant past ^)

So that is the thing that I do not understand about all these problems people have with betrayal. They (people) seem to get all screwy in their heads about why they are upset an just be overly upset because it is the thing to do when you find yourself in that sort of situation.

Now, being in a long term monogamous relationship, I wonder how I would react if my husband just said to me, on a night out at a show dancing and drinking, if he just said "Hey, honey, see that pretty girl over there? Do you mind?" Aside from the considerations about pregnancy and disease, I can't think of any reason why that situation should bother me and really I should be able to just say "Oh, she is pretty, go a head. Have fun. Thanks for considering whether I minded you hanging out with someone else for the night. Love you." I don't know though... maybe I should have an experiment, tell him to pick a girl and ask me next time we are out so I can test my reaction.

 

[Cognisant]

For Science!

 

[kora]

Oooh I like this thread.
This is exactly why I don't want a relationship, by society's standards, a "real" relationship essentially means posessing the other person, complete with their desires and freedom. To me, It's a silly way of thinking "They're with me, they should only be sexually attracted to me, and should only want to spend time with me because we have established we are in a relationship." I find those feelings immature, to me it's just petty jealousy people should learn to control, rather than trying to control the other person and their desires.

If two people like each other so much, why can't they just spend time together without wanting to change each other's behaviour? Why do I have to be so arrogant as to expect their world to start revolving around me?

I get flamed if I start talking about this in my circle..."You will understand when you meet the right person Higs" Makes me go like this:

Of course, I suppose I understand the benefits of a stable, classic relationships for the sake of establishing a family and having kids, but that's a whole other topic.

 

[Etheri]

Well that's just rude

I'm sorry /love. It was that or making some comment about having sex with you, but then realised that's probably even more awful. <:

Spoiler

No no no hold up! Why is it a mistake?
We only get one life and one body so people should be allowed to do what they want with it, if your partner wants to have a go with someone else who are you to deny that, now I'm not saying monogamy is wrong, what I'm saying is that the expectation of monogamy (that you automatically assume your partner having sex with someone else is a mistake) is wrong.

Now sure you can be perfectly happy in monogamy, it's possible, but y'know there's A LOT of situations where you get couples who don't like each other anymore but they're together because it's easier than going through the whole dating thing again, whereas in a world without prude-ism I imagine the transition between relationships would be smooth & easy, people wouldn't be so entrapped by each other, indeed non-binary relationships would become common if not the norm.

Viva la revolution!
Ban prude-ism! (which isn't the same as banning monogamy)

Oi. As for mistake, I was actually talking in general, about everything. Again, I don't really care if people 'cheat' on me, but i do expect them to be honest about it. Don't go and tell me 'i'm the only one' then screw behind my back. If i know what to expect, i'm fine with it. Hell, even if they tell me i'm the only one, then screw behind my back, then honestly tell me they did, that can work. What bothers me is when they deny it. Hide it. Lie about it. What value does my relationship have if they can't be honest to me? I could have frequent sex with semi-strangers too, and wouldn't have to call it a relationship. To me, a relationship involves trust. If that's too difficult, then it's back to being friends with benefits.

I, however, agree with Etheri. The thought of my wife with others is appalling, and I wish for honesty and faith, like Etheri said.

I actually only asked for honesty, but I guess i've not made myself very clear D;. I ASKED for honesty, but if she asks faithfulness of me, I guess I can do that, without too much trouble. I don't find the thought of my wife with others appalling.

I just like to fuck with people

Literally or figuratively? ;D

The sheer outlandish jealousy with all its show of nuances and grandeur of affect is just confounding to me. Always has been.

Same. And same for the emotions people have at breakups (The day before they break up, the person is the most awsome in the world. The day after they break up, the same person is the most vile and awful creature you can find.)

I must conclude that they were simply taught that this is the way to feel and act when ones sweetie runs off and kisses someone else. And the people who taught them were taught by those before them and so on.

Welcome to society, where ignorant people raise new ignorant people, and questioning them is fundamentally wrong! I very often have the same thought, but then applied to dreams and hopes, the things people want and strive for. That good job, the wife and kids, their own home, sometimes even down to the details of how it should look. I guess I could say 'The american dream', despite not even being american. Handed down through generations. 'Here son, this is what you need to achieve to be happy.'

Now, being in a long term monogamous relationship, I wonder how I would react if my husband just said to me, on a night out at a show dancing and drinking, if he just said "Hey, honey, see that pretty girl over there? Do you mind?" Aside from the considerations about pregnancy and disease, I can't think of any reason why that situation should bother me and really I should be able to just say "Oh, she is pretty, go a head. Have fun. Thanks for considering whether I minded you hanging out with someone else for the night. Love you." I don't know though... maybe I should have an experiment, tell him to pick a girl and ask me next time we are out so I can test my reaction.

I rationally agree. I truly do. In all honesty, if my partner asked me that, i'd probably even say yes, despite of what i'm feeling. But, when i'm honest with myself, I think that deep down I'd somewhere feel hurt. Not angry, not enough to make a fuzz about it. I'd just start questioning things. Why would she need that other person, when i'm here? If i'm away, that's one thing, but when i'm here? I wouldn't get overly jealous, I'd just feel a tad sad.
Perhaps it's something like 'I thought I was special to you, I guess i'm not'. While rationally, I know this is never the case, and besides, why couldn't two people be special... I admit that it might still bother me. Because this small part of me doesn't listen to reason. Yet it's that small part of me that I am openly listening to whenever I'm with my partner.
I expected an evening of love and affection, instead my partner saw a pretty person and ran off with them, leaving me standing. Is it rationally so wrong to feel sad? I guess i'd just go home and mind my own business again.
Or perhaps if we both found diffrent people to go with. Now that would be genuinly interesting.

 

[catatonic]

Meh, is this a thread to mock my thread?

Be in abstinence.
Be in purity.

Peace, don't be pissed.
-Catz-

 

[redbaron]

Oooh I like this thread.
This is exactly why I don't want a relationship, by society's standards, a "real" relationship essentially means posessing the other person, complete with their desires and freedom. To me, It's a silly way of thinking "They're with me, they should only be sexually attracted to me, and should only want to spend time with me because we have established we are in a relationship." I find those feelings immature, to me it's just petty jealousy people should learn to control, rather than trying to control the other person and their desires.

If two people like each other so much, why can't they just spend time together without wanting to change each other's behaviour? Why do I have to be so arrogant as to expect their world to start revolving around me?

Relationships do exist outside of the paradigm you describe and I agree for the most part, but finding someone with the same view, who you're also attracted to (and vice-versa) is pretty difficult.

Realistically there's going to be 'some' change when you enter into a relationship. If you're out with a boyfriend, wouldn't you consider it a little disrespectful if he stops listening to stare someone attractive nearby, or if he always talks about women he finds attractive?

As for spending time, I can understand completely. I like to have my own personal space. Realistically though you need to learn to share your time and to be honest if you actually find your partner's company stimulating and enjoyable it's not really a problem so long as you communicate well.

If you really want some alone time, just inviting them out for lunch at a nearby cafe` or even just visiting them for a couple of hours is enough. Watch a movie, have sex, whatever. Sometimes I'd visit my girlfriend for what was meant to be a couple of hours, then end up (shock, horror!) enjoying myself and staying the night.

The point I'm trying to make is: it's worth putting in real effort and value in a relationship if you enjoy the other person's company. Don't over-analyse people's values and try to categorize everything as either correct or incorrect. Sometimes things happen in a relationship that affect you more than should 'logically' be possible, and yet they still happen. In a relationship there's emotional attachment, and just because it's not always logical doesn't mean that it's not real, valuable or justified.

^ Mostly in response to the entire thread, not singling you out with the quotation.

Meh, is this a thread to mock my thread?

Be in abstinence.
Be in purity.

Peace, don't be pissed.
-Catz-

I really don't care how you choose to live, or what you say in your own thread. However, please don't post the same opinions into other threads that other people create. Your thread has already been read and your opinion/s have already noted and recognized. Reposting the exact same opinions into another thread isn't going to further the discussion.

If people want to continue to hear your opinion or thought that they were worth discussing, they'll visit your thread.

 

[Synthetix]

cuddle puddle

we should talk. I thought I was the only one on this site who goes to that site.

 

[Cognisant]

Literally or figuratively? ;D

Literally, figuratively, and metaphorically

What does that mean?
I. Don't. Know.

 

[Vladimir]

I call patriarchy! Who are you to have such expectations?

I obviously have the same expectations for myself. Are you trying to end patriarchy now? What do you think created a patriarchal society, why does it exist?

 

[Etheri]

What do you think created society, why does it exist?

fixed.

Also, since I have no rational answer to the question, lets kill it with fire.

Spoiler

I need people, not many, not often, but I cannot deny that I do need them at times. Society however, is the source of all evil.

 

[Da Blob]

Never figured you for an Idiocracy fan Blob.

I live in America, where currently two lackeys from the same Cartel are running for the highest office in the land and the majority of voters seem to believe that the New Aristocracy really gives a damn about which of their two employees are chosen.

How could I not realize I existed within an Idiocracy? (Actually that is a good question?)

As far as the greater issue, there is a great gap between mind and body, as displayed on this thread. Human nature does not have much in the way of mind, but rather it is centered on the body and the biological foundation of the species. It seems to me that in the rush to become a mind in a Machine, many have forgotten that they are minds riding monkeys, biological machines with built-in predispositions towards reproduction.

Monkeys have been around a lot longer than machines and have developed the means to deal with procreation in a group setting, that is efficient. The problem with the solutions that minds have devised to deal with sex is that those solutions may work for the individual but not the troop and so dissolve the bonds of the troop. If sex is no longer providing long-term social binding between parents via sexual binding, but is just a temporary sport played amongst strangers, mutual masturbation, then what is the glue that is going to hold society together?

What kind of social contract can exist in a group without rules?

 

[MissQuote]

For Science!

Spoiler

Spoiler

I'm not really going to try this