Programming

[crashman]

Are INTPs are good at programming? I like programming but i fail the programming written test in school. I didn't know why. Guess im bad in logic.

 

[KazeCraven]

I am. I'm also good at logic though.

 

[unhinged]

I think that in general NTs would have a knack for programming.

Though I work as a programmer, so I could be biased.

 

[Trebuchet]

I did that for a while, C++ and Cocoa (Objective-C). I wasn't too bad at it, either. But it doesn't really satisfy me the way it does my husband, so I have never made a career out of it. It has always been either been a small part of a larger job or noodling around to do a specific task.

 

[anemian]

Programming is quite a bit of fun. Went to a community college for it, but ran out of cash for finishing my degree at a traditional college.

I have quite a knack for it, though I could be a lot better than I am now if I practiced more.

 

[jachian]

I love programming....... it lead me to doing a computer science degree...........
The sad thing is that since graduating I haven done any programming in any of the jobs that i've had.

I think there's a very strong correlation between being a good programmer and being good at using language or writing.... \that's my observation.

intuitive understanding of the logic of language i should say..............

 

[Latro]

I've hacked around a fair bit in Python, especially on projecteuler.net but also on some other things*, mostly small ones. More recently I've been using MATLAB a fair bit for this class I've been in and will eventually be using it and C in a long research project that I'm starting now. I'm not a great programmer, especially when lots of classes get involved, or recursions get complicated, but I'm pretty solid about the basics and innovative ways of using the basics.

*Boring example to most, but I had fun with it and learned some things from it:

Spoiler

Today I made a bunch of directories for this long project that I'm working on. They're labeled by month and by week within that month, so there's June/Week4, August/Week2, and so on. The month dirs I made manually, the week dirs I made with a little loop in bash. I then wrote a script that returns:
export PPWD=<the dir matching the current date>
and put:
$(myscript.py)
in my .bashrc. Now I can cd $PPWD and then put stuff in the directory where I want it without having to think about it.

 

[crashman]

Im doing the written programming for microcontroller using C language. Thats really sucks.

 

[Latro]

Im doing the written programming for microcontroller using C language. Thats really sucks.

I have heard that microcontrollers can be reasonably programmed using far higher level languages than C without things taking forever. Am I wrong?

(Note to people that sorta-but-not-really know what they are talking about (like I was when I first heard this) that a microcontroller isn't a CPU. It's a specific part of one.)

 

[Jesin]

C isn't so bad, though...

 

[Iuanes]

I think it has to do with the logic and consistency of the code, combined with the openness to approaching a problem, or creating something new.

Language is the same way. Clear and limited rules but infinite possibility in use.

INTP's are generally good at grasping and using logic, while at the same desiring a certain freedom of creating their own system or universe.

Personally, in school I was rubbish and/or bored with maths but found programming both easy and somewhat fulfilling.

 

[RubberDucky451]

Personally, in school I was rubbish and/or bored with maths but found programming both easy and somewhat fulfilling.

I was the same way.

Here's a pretty fun programming game I've been playing with for about an hour.

http://www.kongregate.com/games/Coolio_Niato/lighbot-2-0

 

[BitRogue]

Well, just because INTPs typically have an aptitude for programming, it doesnt mean you will enjoy it. If you havent tried it out and found that you like it, then there is an off chance you wont pass a programming aptitude test.

The thing is, I program to an idea, not just for the sake of programming. I want to see that idea realised so that spurs me on to writing the code (and learning the language) even if I have to rewrite it after a while because Ive discovered a flaw in how I originally envisaged how the code would work.

I have about 10+ languages under my belt, but Im not a programmer. In fact when my job WAS a programmer, I hated it. I dont like deadlines and wasting time on coding stupid esoteric error checking, I get bored quickly there.

 

[Adamastor]

I enjoy it, I really enjoy it.

It is no different from any other subject, you must learn, build your on knowledge base and improve it and use it.

Take math, for example, you learn axioms, you learn theorems, you learn algorithms, you get familiar with things and then you solve problems.

Same with languages, take japanese, you learn the symbols, you learn the syntax, you decrypt the symbols, you write it in a familiar, and enjoy reading manga :O

Programming is the same, you learn the sintax, you learn logic, these are your your basic foundations, you learn specific things for specific goals, you enjoy your power.

I say power because programming open many doors, and possibilities many things. For instance: MMORPGs, or any other type of game, seriously everything in the computer that you are seeing on the monitor is nothing more than data held in your computer memory, which means you can do everything you want with it, since the S.O is responsible for managing it.

The internet? The power to do extensive searchs, to dive in the sea of data, and select everything of interest, with inhuman accuracy and speed, is something scary and unvaluable.

I agree with BitRogue.

I am struggling to see an image of myself working as a programmer, but I enjoy my freedom, if I sell my freedom and compromises myself to do preestabilished things this may suck, if those things are not challenging.

 

[KazeCraven]

I love programming....... it lead me to doing a computer science degree...........
The sad thing is that since graduating I haven done any programming in any of the jobs that i've had.

I think there's a very strong correlation between being a good programmer and being good at using language or writing.... \that's my observation.

intuitive understanding of the logic of language i should say..............

Doubt it. Well, your statement finishes with a confusing disclaimer, but

-my computer science professor is not a "word" guy
-many wordsmiths lack mathematical intelligence, which nearly all the natural programmers I know have

 

[Adamastor]

Personally, I believe that mathematical thinking helps you to develop substancial quality in your writing, since it helps you to make yourself clear, this does not implies, for instance, that you are some kind of poet or anything like that...

It is curious though, how mathematics have a pretty common understanding of beauty, with may or may not extends to others type of beauty...

That said I believe math -> writing but not the other way around writing -> math

Hmm.. about programming and math, they are pretty much the same thing, wait, at least they had the same beginning... Anyway it is IMPOSSIBLE to be good/decent programmer without some solid mathematical background, a lesser example of this is that you are probably not a "spontaneous" programmer if you are not comfortable with some math principles (this is due to the "same beginning" I've said before).

 

[KazeCraven]

I'm still skeptical, but okay.

I have pretty good analytic writing abilities, so what you say seems to apply to me.

 

[jachian]

Doubt it. Well, your statement finishes with a confusing disclaimer, but

-my computer science professor is not a "word" guy
-many wordsmiths lack mathematical intelligence, which nearly all the natural programmers I know have

Am not sure I agree with you at all..............

What do you mean by he's not a "word" guy?

What doe you mean by "wordsmith"?

exactly what do you mean by "mathematical intelligence"?

The first thing I will say is that mathematics is about LOGIC and not numbers.
Numbers are a consequence of mathematics and logic.

The "mathematical intelligence" needed to excel in programming is that of understanding Logic most importantly at an intuitive level and not necessarily at a format academic level.

At the next higher level, we all understand that mathematics is a language. Again an not talking about arithmetic and algebra and what ever else..... am talking about at the level of predicate logic from which everything else flows.....

Now natural or human languages have an inherit logic in their use........ from the way words are spelt to how a words are combined to create new words.

Sentence structures have a logic that can be mathematically captured...... in other words there are rules about how you combine words to create a meaningful coherent sentence. This will involve subject and verb agreement, punctuation, etc.

And then structuring sentences to form meaningful paragraphs and eventually stories is an inherently logical process.

Now most of us never realise that writing this is an inherently logical/mathematical exercise.......... maybe because we were brainwashed into thinking that mathematics is about numbers..... but it is NOT.

Good writers have an intuitive understanding of the logic of language and writing and this usually makes the ones interested in programming excel at it..... from my observations....... this also helps because most of us code in higher level programming languages.

So while many writers may not formally know predicate logic, discrete math, differential equations and such.......... they have an intuitive understanding of logic, syllogisms, corollaries and the like...... and many will do well when provided the formal mathematical and programming information.

Perhaps your CS professor just memorised his way through undergrad and got lucky in postgrad.........

 

[BigApplePi]

I have a degree in math and worked as a programmer 15 plus years. I don't know what to say unless asked.

 

[KazeCraven]

Am not sure I agree with you at all..............

What do you mean by he's not a "word" guy?

What doe you mean by "wordsmith"?

exactly what do you mean by "mathematical intelligence"?

The first thing I will say is that mathematics is about LOGIC and not numbers.
Numbers are a consequence of mathematics and logic.

The "mathematical intelligence" needed to excel in programming is that of understanding Logic most importantly at an intuitive level and not necessarily at a format academic level.

At the next higher level, we all understand that mathematics is a language. Again an not talking about arithmetic and algebra and what ever else..... am talking about at the level of predicate logic from which everything else flows.....

Now natural or human languages have an inherit logic in their use........ from the way words are spelt to how a words are combined to create new words.

Sentence structures have a logic that can be mathematically captured...... in other words there are rules about how you combine words to create a meaningful coherent sentence. This will involve subject and verb agreement, punctuation, etc.

And then structuring sentences to form meaningful paragraphs and eventually stories is an inherently logical process.

Now most of us never realise that writing this is an inherently logical/mathematical exercise.......... maybe because we were brainwashed into thinking that mathematics is about numbers..... but it is NOT.

Good writers have an intuitive understanding of the logic of language and writing and this usually makes the ones interested in programming excel at it..... from my observations....... this also helps because most of us code in higher level programming languages.

So while many writers may not formally know predicate logic, discrete math, differential equations and such.......... they have an intuitive understanding of logic, syllogisms, corollaries and the like...... and many will do well when provided the formal mathematical and programming information.

Perhaps your CS professor just memorised his way through undergrad and got lucky in postgrad.........

By word guy, I mean someone who is good with words. His example was that he's bad at word games.

By wordsmith, I mean someone who is good at picking the right wording for expressing something.

By mathematical intelligence, I mean anyone with a high aptitude for mathematical skills.

I agree that math is about logic.

Oh, I think I get it. You're not talking about story writing skill. That's what came to mind. Though I'm not sure that you'd still be a good writer if you can't write a good story? Are you talking about debating skills and whatnot? You still have to retrieve the right semantic content, so I only see it as minimally helpful.

You did a good job with explaining how math is logic based, though what I need to know is why that makes a person good at writing. Well-structured writing or speaking can still be dry and boring.