Porn

[Hadoblado]

And just for the sake of experience sharing (and out of mild curiosity) has anyone ever awoken to their partner masturbating? This has happened to me once, and I felt insecure to say the least (it was an ex quite some time ago tho).

 

[Jordan~]

My view of the article is that the wife was oppressing the husband and he should probably have divorced her, because she sounds like a shrieking bitch. I suspect there were issues in that marriage that had nothing to do with porn. Of course, marriage is a legally binding economic contract rather than an expression of commitment made by two individuals because it's still 1830, so he'd probably stand to lose a lot of money if he did that.

The only times I've ever awoken to a partner were after one night stands with no emotional commitment, so it wouldn't have bothered me. Not that it would have bothered me in a relationship, either - I'd probably just say, "Next time wake me up instead." Unless I had work or something, then they would just be being considerate.

 

[Black Rose]

Most porn I have seen is disgusting. Usually I collect nude anime art. If I had a girlfriend Id hope she understand that I look at woman as beautiful and deserving of respect and not just sex objects. I just kind of have odd tastes is all.

 

[Jordan~]

Well, in terms of personal preferences, a lot of porn is just plain dull for me. It's vapid and uninteresting with less emotional value than watching some prepare a sandwich. Where everyone involved appears to be having a good time, though, it's good. Even if they're faking you can at least admire their acting talents. :P And there's yaoi; kind of a different category of erotica, though.

 

[Roni]

Re: still contemplating the fantasy/reality issue

People generally don't get off to magazines. They get off to the people in magazines.

There are no people in magazines. They are photos - TV make-up & wardrobed, studio lit, photoshopped pieces of art. They are not real people.
Even if someone gets off to who he imagines those images to be it's still just a photo, a mere vehicle for his fantasy.

And given the enormous variety of erotica available I think it's pretty presumptuous to make general statements about what people get off to. Ultimately what gets everyone off is the mechanical stimulation of a physiological response. The mind tricks required in this process will vary as much as people vary on everything else.

Affairs start in the head. What's going on physically during masturbation only involves one person, true, but mentally? Nope.

Strongly disagree.
Masturbation is self-focussed by default. There may be nothing going on mentally besides assessment of progress towards orgasm. No fantasy is required at all, much less fantasy involving another person.
Personally I couldn't think of less effective sexual fantasy than imagining myself with someone I want in real life. Shared sex includes all the negotiations and insecurities of any human interaction. My imagination is just too good to prevent those mood killers from appearing in a fantasy.
Besides, when I want a real person I want the real person, surprises and all, not a mental construct. Nor would I want to use someone I care about the way I use erotica. For me, the appearance of a real person in my sexual fantasy would more likely preclude an affair than start one.

Affairs probably could be traced back to an idea, but so what? It doesn't imply the idea itself led to the affair.
Abuse can also be traced back to an idea. The woman so obsessed with fidelity she checks all her husband's emails, text messages and credit card statements, limits all his social interactions to those than include her, constantly calls his office to make sure he's at work, who eventually finds something she considers 'proof' of an affair and reacts by destroying his property and publicly defaming him, also started out with just an idea.
If finding someone attractive is risking an affair, is being concerned about fidelity risking abuse? How concerned should we be about what goes on inside someone's mind?

 

[Roni]

And just for the sake of experience sharing (and out of mild curiosity) has anyone ever awoken to their partner masturbating? This has happened to me once, and I felt insecure to say the least (it was an ex quite some time ago tho).

Do you mean insecure/threatened or insecure/inadequate? I've had both.

I felt threatened by a stranger - I'd fallen asleep on a train and woke to find him watching me as he masturbated. That was pretty creepy in itself, but more threatening was all the scary alternatives I suddenly imagined. Compared to having my fingers cut off or something masturbation didn't seem so bad.

I felt inadequate as part of a game within an abusive relationship - he'd use 'punishment' masturbation, deliberately active enough to wake me up and highlight the consequences of wishing to sleep instead of performing my duty.

It's also happened lots of times where I didn't feel much at all. Sometimes people do it just because they can't sleep and if you share a bed with someone long enough (and they're not as hung up on privacy as I am) it's bound to happen. I just pretended I was still asleep and allowed him his privacy (that was in a loving relationship where I knew he would have woken me if he wanted to share).

 

[cheese]

Re: still contemplating the fantasy/reality issue


There are no people in magazines. They are photos - TV make-up & wardrobed, studio lit, photoshopped pieces of art. They are not real people.
Even if someone gets off to who he imagines those images to be it's still just a photo, a mere vehicle for his fantasy.

And given the enormous variety of erotica available I think it's pretty presumptuous to make general statements about what people get off to. Ultimately what gets everyone off is the mechanical stimulation of a physiological response. The mind tricks required in this process will vary as much as people vary on everything else.

I wasn't saying people are only turned on by other people. I was saying your statement was reductionist, since they're not *actually* getting off to magazines. (Most of the time.) Nor do I think there's such a huge divide between photos and the people who pose for them.

Strongly disagree.
Masturbation is self-focussed by default. There may be nothing going on mentally besides assessment of progress towards orgasm. No fantasy is required at all, much less fantasy involving another person.
Personally I couldn't think of less effective sexual fantasy than imagining myself with someone I want in real life. Shared sex includes all the negotiations and insecurities of any human interaction. My imagination is just too good to prevent those mood killers from appearing in a fantasy.
Besides, when I want a real person I want the real person, surprises and all, not a mental construct. Nor would I want to use someone I care about the way I use erotica. For me, the appearance of a real person in my sexual fantasy would more likely preclude an affair than start one.

Our experiences don't coincide at all, and I don't understand where you're coming from, and your understanding of masturbation and arousal is very different to mine. I suppose this proves there are vastly different perspectives that are equally valid, depending on the individual.

Affairs probably could be traced back to an idea, but so what? It doesn't imply the idea itself led to the affair.
Abuse can also be traced back to an idea. The woman so obsessed with fidelity she checks all her husband's emails, text messages and credit card statements, limits all his social interactions to those than include her, constantly calls his office to make sure he's at work, who eventually finds something she considers 'proof' of an affair and reacts by destroying his property and publicly defaming him, also started out with just an idea.
If finding someone attractive is risking an affair, is being concerned about fidelity risking abuse? How concerned should we be about what goes on inside someone's mind?

I don't know how to respond to this. Too big and I don't feel like it. Hopefully someone else takes it up. I don't think effort extends to invading your partner's personal space, and I think the woman in your scenario is a bit nuts. I suspect you've misunderstood me here but I don't feel like arguing it.

*edit
There's a difference between accepting that you're going to have thoughts in all directions on all manner of things, and encouraging those thoughts. There are choices that can be made, often at stages far earlier than people think. I think that's where I was going with it.

I don't think this means no one should watch porn or that polygamy is inherently wrong or *anything* of the sort. (I think it's quite a brilliant idea and often wish it could work better.)

But I think there are connections between the things people choose to do/the way they train their minds/the habits, thoughts and behaviours they choose to indulge - and their future self. Although I doubt anyone will disagree with that. The problem is proving there's any connection with porn and who you are/what you do - which is much dodgier. And I'm not sure of it myself, though it seems somewhat intuitive, so I probably won't say any more (until I get tempted again).

 

[Melkor]

Hrm.
Fascinating how you people can talk for so long while essentially saying the same things.
I assumed the thread would be rather linear.
Interesting too, that Cheese is making a prude stance. How curious, are you perhaps joking with us cheese?


Although the overwhelming conclusion of this thread seems to be that we should begin making an archive of exclusively INTP
amateur porn.
Bored faces and multitasking sex for all!

 

[Roni]

.. we should begin making an archive of exclusively INTP
amateur porn.
Bored faces and multitasking sex for all!

Brilliant idea!
First I just need to set the context..
This guy and this girl are in their room .... wait, is it their room or do they each have their own place? If so, who's place is this? Maybe it's the girl's place. Right. So she would have sorta girly decor. So maybe those curtains are a bit boring for a girly room. I should give her something lacy maybe. Yeah. Unless it's the guy's place. Maybe guys have sexier decor than girls? Yeah, should be the guy's place. Right. So I've got these masculine curtains. Hang on, the bedspread doesn't really match the curtains. Maybe I need like a fur throw or something. Yeah, that's kinda sexy. Okay, what kind of fur? Maybe a big black faux bearskin. Oh yeah, that works. But now it doesn't match the curtains. Maybe I could just tie the curtains in with coordinating cushions. But I think I'd rather furry cushions for his bed. Actually, fur cushions would look pretty cool on my bed. Hey, that would go pretty good with that feature wall I just painted. Awesome......
*wanders off to make fur cushions*

 

[SilentRobert23]

Philosophically, I consider myself polyamorous (I haven't put it into practice yet - I'm still working my way up to monogamy) so I really don't see a problem with porn. If your partner watching porn is bothersome to you, it's probably more indicative of your neuroticism and insecurity than your partners perversion.

This.

To me, it seems like there must be a lot of sex going on in a relationship to not resort to masturbation, though I might simply have an absurd sex drive. I suppose I am just a teenager. Never been in a relationship, though, so maybe "real sex" suppresses the distraction of libido for a longer period of time.

 

[Smooch]

if you guys want we can argue. lol i can definitely start an argument with my stance on this subject (quite prude), although I don't see there's much to debate about. It's just a matter of differing opinions is all.

 

[pjoa09]

Does anyone masturbate to Playboy Models?

I find it often more arousing than porn. I often get bored with porn after the first few minutes. They tend to drone into just one boring mechanical movement (back and forth).

I also can't appreciate a nude body on its own.

 

[OverCaes]

Hmm..if porn didn't exist in any form, would you have to ask the question?

Personally, I think porn degrades the respectability and humanity of another person. They're viewed as objects, not people like you or I.

That is just my opinion, though.

 

[pjoa09]

Hmm..if porn didn't exist in any form, would you have to ask the question?

Personally, I think porn degrades the respectability and humanity of another person. They're viewed as objects, not people like you or I.

That is just my opinion, though.

Still it depends. For me it would be an honor to meet my favorite pornstars and models.

I think it is self degrading a little. It is a bit desperate. A lack of control of your own biology is embarrassing to say the least.

But I don't find it degrading for the one being watched.
They are beautiful or skilled then they have the right to exploit it in anyway they desire.

 

[OverCaes]

The key word there being 'exploit.' If you've ever fallen in love, you've probably had some sort of passionate sex. Porn isn't passionate, it's lustful and misleading. It's devoid of the love that's meant to make the act of sex meaningful.

So we get lonely or bored and find our sexiest, favorite idols and...satiate the craving; getting the quick fix instead of thinking about how to find a partner that can satisfy you both physically and mentally.

 

[Jordan~]

What if people who are having passionate sex anyway film it and then sell it to people who like watching people having passionate sex? Passionless porn is really dull. I think I said in this thread that amateur is better, production line porn is okay when there's actual chemistry or they're good actors.

What if you have a partner who satisfies you both physically and mentally, too? Looking at beautiful people is fun, especially when they're having sex with eachother. The fact that you have someone you think is beautiful and who you like to have sex with doesn't change that.

 

[OverCaes]

What would cause one to record it?

Then to sell it? Now the passion-filled sex is thrown in the pile with the passionless sex, creating the illusion that sex is just sex. Nothing more. Another human interest that is broken down into preferences and hobbies.

 

[Jordan~]

I'm pretty sure it is just sex until you make something more of it. It's just an action like any other, it has no inherent meaning (well, other than that it might result in reproduction, but I'm not exactly interested in porn that depicts potentially reproductive sex...) until you bestow some meaning upon it by your emotional involvement in it. The same's true of any action. The fact sex is an action often engaged in exclusively with someone you love just makes it more likely to be granted that emotional gravity than, say, building model airplanes. If that's what you used to do with your father who died when you were a teenager and now you're an aviator, building model airplanes might also have a very great deal of emotional importance to you, though. Or lighting a candle in Notre Dame for a loved one, or chanting spells over the crops in the Trobriand Islands, or burying a man in his Sunday best, or hugging the pillow you used to wake up hugging when you were in love and your lover was far away. All just things that are happening, only special because the people involved make them special.

Maybe you'd record it just so people could see? Why does anyone record anything? And sell it because it's a fine way to make a living?

 

[OverCaes]

That same manner of thought reminds me of the quote,"I don't rape b*tches, I just f*ck them without their permission."

Sex without consent of both parties is still just sex, until you make something more of it.

One would have to accept that there is something more of it already.

 

[Jordan~]

That's true, to an extent. Though I wouldn't lump consensual sex and nonconsensual sex together - the contextual differences are sufficient to draw a distinction, I think - ultimately it is the fact that rape is so emotionally damaging that makes it so bad, isn't it? It works both ways. It can have very negative emotional associations (rape), no serious ones (casual sex) or very positive ones (between lovers).

 

[pjoa09]

Yes, obviously that search for a sex and emotional goddess (non-living tend to satiate my mental needs) was a bit too difficult to find. I do have a lot of cravings and lust. It's better to release such primitive urges in my privacy than appearing thoroughly discontented with life.

I am clearly no good at luring women or appearing confident when approaching a beautiful woman. If I did have such a goddess I would put my wand where it belongs every night. Unfortunately, it has to swing about making magic. And I don't cast the spells verbally.

I believe everyone exploits themselves. If you have a talent you exploit it. I believe certain women who are very attractive physically can exploit their bodies and sustain themselves.

Masturbation is fantasy. Fantasy used to relieve myself of primitive urges.

However, fantasy is best served raw, I prefer to use my imagination more than resorting to porn.

 

[Minuend]

They're viewed as objects, not people like you or I.

How do one tell the difference? What does it mean to be viewed as an object? I can't tell how I perceive porn stars differently from other movie stars.

In fact, sometimes when I watch porn, I find myself wondering how they came up with that particular concept, how much is planned etc. Just like I do in regular movies.

People are people, they just sometimes turn you on.

I would have the same respect for the individual whether it was a porn actor, or a bank clerk. Why would displaying oneself in such fashion be demeaning? Why is sex shameful? Why is "a biological instinct" of less value?

 

[Meer]

I love porn, searching for it, collecting it...categorizing it.

I would like to make some porn with some nice ladies that I know, while we're young. That probably won't ever actually happen.

 

[Kate]

And just for the sake of experience sharing (and out of mild curiosity) has anyone ever awoken to their partner masturbating? This has happened to me once, and I felt insecure to say the least (it was an ex quite some time ago tho).

Ha yeah about 3 weeks ago actually. Then he got the idea to tell me hes a porn addict and hes not as attracted to me anymore.

I don't really want to comment on anything else because I feel I am extremely biased right now.

 

[OverCaes]

I see what you mean. However, all forms of sex, whether consensual or not, between whatever creatures, in whatever manner would be "lumped together" under porn, if they are recorded and sold (or otherwise made available) for people to view.

 

[OverCaes]

When you meet a bank clerk, you know that person only as that bank clerk. You don't know that person's likes or dislikes, and probably don't want to spark a conversation with them. If that bank clerk happens to be a porn star, how would everything change? Your thought process, curiosity (or lack thereof), and mannerisms might all be completely different.

I could be wrong though. We're not all wired the same.

 

[Jordan~]

I see what you mean. However, all forms of sex, whether consensual or not, between whatever creatures, in whatever manner would be "lumped together" under porn, if they are recorded and sold (or otherwise made available) for people to view.

How so? Porn is just recordings of sex; the fact that the sex is recorded doesn't change the nature of the sex that occurred.

When you meet a bank clerk, you know that person only as that bank clerk. You don't know that person's likes or dislikes, and probably don't want to spark a conversation with them. If that bank clerk happens to be a porn star, how would everything change? Your thought process, curiosity (or lack thereof), and mannerisms might all be completely different.

I could be wrong though. We're not all wired the same.

I prefer not to judge people based on their professions. The only necessary difference between a bank clerk and a pornstar is what they do for a living. Each sells their time to an employer, albeit for different things.

 

[Minuend]

When you meet a bank clerk, you know that person only as that bank clerk. You don't know that person's likes or dislikes, and probably don't want to spark a conversation with them. If that bank clerk happens to be a porn star, how would everything change? Your thought process, curiosity (or lack thereof), and mannerisms might all be completely different.

I could be wrong though. We're not all wired the same.

It's the personality of the person that is important. I suppose I don't have many typical feminine interests, whatever that is, but this last one and a half year I've had a female dominated job that I would think is considered more of a lady job. (Which I had huge issues coming to terms with in the beginning, having a lady job, I mean, but that's a different story).

But the employees do not fit the annoying girl stereotype. By which I mean emotional, gossipy drama queens. There's one exception, but she probably has some kind of paranoid personality disorders (not exaggerating, she thinks everyone is out to get her).

Point is, despite what would superficially seem like a very divided group interest-wise, we get along great. Their job doesn't determine their personality. I've also learned to appreciate different traits in people. Not everybody has to be all deep and intellectual to have something to contribute. Some are good leaders, others are good motivators etc.

So yes, I could know a porn star and still treat it like a normal friend. I don't see acting in porn as a big issue, really.

You just can't stereotype based on profession, because the odds of it being wrong are very, very high. That's why I could never do it. I'm always baffled by people who say lawyers are this and that, while mechanics are that and this.

It's just so imprecise.

I wonder the judge's ability to see individuals. There's a person behind the mechanic, with all his distinct traits and habits. Can't he see?

 

[OverCaes]

Who is the judge?

 

[OverCaes]

It's all about personal preference. I just think that porn, in general, is way too regular. Sex with no strings attached brings a sense of irresponsibility that kids bring into the real world. I'm all for a little fun, but I'm not going to share any of this with the next generation. Among adults, "to each their own" but it's gotten to the point where people of all ages are thinking about insatiable women and massive members. Who wants to work for a lay anymore?

I don't judge pornstars for their profession. There are a few of them I wouldn't mind getting to know on a personal level. I've personally held 14 jobs in different industries, but you couldn't peg me for any of them.

"Each sells their time to an employer..." I'd substitute 'time' with 'soul.' (not in a religious sense of the word.) I have difficulty accepting that ones being has a price.

 

[pjoa09]

It's all about personal preference. I just think that porn, in general, is way too regular. Sex with no strings attached brings a sense of irresponsibility that kids bring into the real world. I'm all for a little fun, but I'm not going to share any of this with the next generation. Among adults, "to each their own" but it's gotten to the point where people of all ages are thinking about insatiable women and massive members. Who wants to work for a lay anymore?

I don't judge pornstars for their profession. There are a few of them I wouldn't mind getting to know on a personal level. I've personally held 14 jobs in different industries, but you couldn't peg me for any of them.

"Each sells their time to an employer..." I'd substitute 'time' with 'soul.' (not in a religious sense of the word.) I have difficulty accepting that ones being has a price.

I guess you have very strong ethics. Mine are flimsy. It's too flimsy, I get in trouble because of it.

 

[Minuend]

"Each sells their time to an employer..." I'd substitute 'time' with 'soul.' (not in a religious sense of the word.) I have difficulty accepting that ones being has a price.

But why?

Is there any reason to think so, other than the fact that it's part of our culture to draw that conclusion?

Pride is just a human concept, it is what we make it to be. As humans, what we choose to fit a certain box wont always be the most logical choice. How can we justify separating porn and pride?

The judge is the individual who judge. Anyone.

 

[Jordan~]

I guess you have very strong ethics. Mine are flimsy. It's too flimsy, I get in trouble because of it.

So do I, which I'd sooner die than violate, but it so happens I think sex is a good thing, including meaningless sex. It's just pleasure, it's nothing to be afraid of. To me, it's functionally identical to building a train set with someone - something in which you mutually engage for the sake of pleasure. It can be more than that, but it isn't to begin with. More sex, I say. So long as you use contraception with people of the opposite sex. Why should you have to work for a lay? If two people want to have sex with eachother, why shouldn't they just go for it? I don't see where the harm is, I don't see who's getting hurt.

Having sex for a living seems to be a far better way of working than filing paperwork for a living. I know which I'd rather do - the one that pays better and involves having lots of sex. There are some dubious practices, no doubt, but I think unionisation of porn actors and industry regulation (Proxy just had a nosebleed) can solve that.

 

[Jelly Rev]

porn as an job of labor is positive, their labor having sex gives them money(value), they are producing something from their labor

them being fake is irrelevant, it is what they create to obtain income, how many people actually look, dress, and act like they want to at work.

They are not stealing(they are creating) or infringing upon anyone else.

The question of whether the signif other should be informed should be based upon the rules of the relationship they have agreed to which are usually none, A monogamous relationship usually consist of the rules of not having sexual relations with other ppl...otherwise it wouldnt be monogamy.

Masturbation should not even be an issue within a relationship it should just be assumed people will masturbate, if it is an issue its with the one who has an issue.

If they are excessivly masturbating or not having sexual relations with their partner then their is an issue within the relationship not one with masturbating

Being jealous of the other persons hand ROFL

 

[jamesreed292]

There was a recent post on NEOGAF on a group of scientists that surveyed men who looked at porn and compared them to those who didn't look at porn. The only problem was was that out of all the men surveyed, ALL of them have looked at porn at least once in their life.

 

[jamesreed292]

Hmm..if porn didn't exist in any form, would you have to ask the question?

Personally, I think porn degrades the respectability and humanity of another person. They're viewed as objects, not people like you or I.

That is just my opinion, though.

Porn doesn't degrade anybody but the people who do not fully consent to the project in question.

 

[SilentRobert23]

There was a recent post on NEOGAF on a group of scientists that surveyed men who looked at porn and compared them to those who didn't look at porn. The only problem was was that out of all the men surveyed, ALL of them have looked at porn at least once in their life.

Not sure if serious. . . .

If so, how large was their sample? I bet if you looked hard enough, you could find guys out there who have never had a date with Rosie Palms.

 

[jamesreed292]

Not sure if serious. . . .

If so, how large was their sample? I bet if you looked hard enough, you could find guys out there who have never had a date with Rosie Palms.

lol, to be honest I was half testing my profile settings to see if everything shows up correct ( it wasn't), now that I fixed it I am pretty embarrassed that that was my first post on the website...

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=398631

Here is the link to the survey I mentioned. So you say that there is a man that exists that has never looked at porn? I believe you have a mighty search ahead of you. The way I could even think that it would be possible is if it were against their religion and they did not have access to a computer until they were old enough to resist the temptation.