Genius. Momentum. Momentum relationships. Inspirational Pairings. A hell of a lot of what is going on when a person is talking/interacting/being. An integrated and predictive/predictable/highly-precise set of patterns ...
Can you imagine? Giving someone an explanation without context, but leaving in the mystery? It will whet the appetite of those interested to seek out that context. The road to Pod'Lair!
You know with the addition of a even a few physiological cues from PL, MBTI becomes much more powerful. Mrs Archie and I were comparing notes on people we knew where we had puzzled over their type. With a few new ideas I've gleaned, such as (correct me if I'm wrong here) emotions for thinkers don't rise above the midline of their faces, we were able to type some previously puzzling people. For example a nephew, we had typed as clearly an ISXP, but couldn't figure T/F, until I realized that his emotions light up his entire face. The more we worked through it, yeah, definite INFP. What made it difficult is how young he is. Interestingly his brother is an obvious ESFP, from womb. Some types are easier to spot than others.
ITT: OP attempts to develop an understanding of Pod'lair, Pod'lair girl comes to aid, individuals proceed to produce arguments based on rhetoric, generally ignoring or placing labels specific elements in order to argue against it. As a side note, as a function of Ti, it's formality to produce an argument then aggregate facts in order to support it; the pitfall of this is that reality can completely go over your head if you're too hasty.
Those who argue generally have no understanding of the system and can't really speak for its validity.
TIL: assigning values to variables is a form of mental manipulation.
To test this theory I set up a mirror directly in front of me about five* feet away. I recited a joke I'd heard last week. That made me kinda giddy. The left side of my face lit up all the way to my forehead almost to the hairline. The right side was immobile except for a down turned right lip. I thought I had glanced to the upper right but couldn't tell as I was looking at the floor around that time. Something got in my right eye and it blinked in a pseudo cunning manner while my left eyelid drooped and danced. Random nose flaring continued upwards of five* minutes while I noticed one hand (right) was wringing while the left hand attempted to salute without success. Following that I reflected more on the joke laughing as I recited it out loud but disengaging in a buoyant manner with a slight shimmy to the lower left. I noticed a confused look at the center line of my face but recovered quickly with a laser-like look but without the earlier cunning.
I have been unable to self-determine my type from this data. My video got broke and this is all I have to go on. Does anyone have a clue? If you MBTI people can't make a serious effort with this I'm going to have to turn to Pod'Lair which so far has failed me. I'm cool before the panic sets in. Pleeze help me.
________________________
*Do not read anything into these fives. Their identity is purely coincidental and I could be off.
Very interesting answers! I'll just do the last group (I tried to stop xailynne's video before she got to them) in a spoiler and put the rest of my response in a spoiler, so it doesn't mess the thread up too much.
AmberRose:
The Video quality is terrible, so it's hard to focus. Again, another familiar/typical sort of girl. Not sure what that is. Her brow area looks sort of furrowed and sorrowful.
What the hell, the sound just disappears after a while! Back to the beginning....
The way she panders to the camera makes me think Xyy (sort of pushing friendliness) but I'm really clutching at straws here. Earlier, I thought she might be Xai. Maybe she uses Vai? I really have no idea. Next!
clothesencounters:
I really like this girl, she's very accessible and seems genuine. There are little things that seem familiar, but I may just be seeing popular Asian/teenage memes.
I'm just going to guess Nyy'xai here. But I may be guessing a stereotype. It's hard to focus on her. Generally she's very smooth/polished, but at times I see little mouth quirks (Fi, especially with Ne, seems to have an ungraceful face I've found).
Ok, I turned her sound off. Much easier to see her! (With the sound off it looks like she's on fast-forward.) She definitely has micro-moments of Korean Mouth. It's a bitchy kind of fish-mouth thing they do.
I've even seen it on an adopted korean boy who'd spent his whole life with white americans and thought of himself as white. I'm not sure what it is; I think it might be a simulation of Fi, because cutesy Fi-style behaviour seems to be really popular among korean females, and Te-Fi don't-give-a-fuck is popular among the males. It's throughout their pop culture too, I think. So regardless of whether they have Fi or not, a lot of them use a few of their key mannerisms to signal stereotypical Fi innards. (Not that they think about it in jungian terms, they're just picking up on a behavioural meme that's rooted in a type meme I think.)
So Nyy'xai. Just a guess. Maybe Xyy'vai? I'll go with Nyy'xai. Maybe, maaaybe Nyy'zai if that's Xyy she's using to articulate. I *think* she has Nyy. It's hard to see her still, I'm just getting an overall impression. She's too polished and fast.
Ok, next!
otherjuicystar07:
I like this girl too, she seems fairly real. Sort of like the actual version of a persona a lot of girls try to play. She's a bit trying to listen to (that voice), but I'll muddle through.
She seems very serious and like she's in touch with her 'inner' self.
Wow, this girl is amazing. I can't tell if she's an actual airhead or not. I love it. What an odd girl. When she starts ranting about pizza boxes and the disparity in shapes (whaaa?), it sounds like the kind of thing that could jokingly come out of a Ne dom's mouth - but it doesn't appear to be a joke from her. Neither does the red velvet 'cream cheese' agonising, or the claim that she can rap, or the bitchy-doe-eyed confusion over the double standard with men/women and promiscuity. What a funny mix of deep sincerity/ethical strength and genuine inanity. She has this really precise way of talking too, reminiscent of bitchy airheads in summer movies, but it doesn't sound unnatural on her; she seems genuinely neurotic.
I think she's a subjective/introverted type. I feel like she's the sort who should be easy to read but I must not be in the right frame of mind or something. I would guess an F of some sort. I want to say ISFJ/Vai'xyy, or maybe INFP/Xai'nyy, but I really don't know. I think F, and Ne-Si (unsure of order).
Hmm, her hands look like they might be Ti-ish, on a small scale (Fe over Ti). That'd be in support of FJ. She seems to have strong Fi agony too, but I'm even less sure about that, not very good with Fi.
Better move on.
StudyGuys:
I remember hearing from the podlair video that he's a Nai'something, I think Nai'xyy, but I'll put down some reflections anyway.
His eyes are very steady and tired-looking. He has very little expression but when it does it lights up his face (reminds me of the way it comes across on high Ti types). He's got a bit of quirky energy. I might've guessed something with Ne. He seems to have a bunch of different parts of himself moving in opposition to each other.
JeanetteLucia:
Hard to see *her*. This is a performer meme I see a lot, especially from hosts on pop culture shows, often on news anchors too. I guess it's a Dynamics sort of meme. Probably specifically Xyy. It doesn't seem comfortable on her, but that could just be because this is a rehearsed speech. She has some surprised-looking perkups sometimes, which reminds me of Ne. I have no idea what she is. Ne something?
Response to answers:
I was pleased to find out I was more or less on the right track with the first two groups! With the little bit I had a strong enough feeling about to even venture a guess, anyway. I was fairly certain about the space cadet (peenie brown). I also forgot to mention I thought Britbliss might be a T, or a Fi type (who to me sometimes can seem quite T because of their 'don't-give-a-fuck'/rejection-of-world's-rules schtick). The DMT lady also seemed Ti-Fe, though I would've guessed INTP before ENTP. I was pretty surprised by Tannah, the Xyy'nai who looked Ne-ish to me.
I suppose @Lyra's surprise at my dislike of herwretchedlife's (the gothy girl) video makes more sense now, considering we're probably similar types. (Though podlair's well aware the same type can clash hugely.) Her face *did* look a little dead, the same way meekakitty's does. Around the cheek-mouth area, there're even lines that look similar. (I don't think I mentioned that previously, though I did note it.) I suppose the stuff she was doing in the video seemed too 'obvious' and old to me (my Ne didn't appreciate hers? It seemed like the usual teenage approximation of rebellion - in this case rebellion against norms, also with a very slapdash approximation of zaniness. Actually, it was just what you said once about a certain type of Ne dom that uses Ne to 'seek approval'. It came across like that to me. So perhaps you're seeing something I'm not, or vice-versa). Maybe it was bad editing too. I showed a friend and he said perhaps the point of the video was just to show off the costumes, that's how little development we seemed to see.
I was surprised Britbliss was Nyy'zai - seems so odd.
JessicaKardashian being Nyy'xai is not totally unbelievable, I guess.
The black lady's Nyy'zai?! What is that persona she's putting on? I knew she was putting something on, but it seems very odd.
I thought clothesencounters (korean chick) was full of expression going right into the eyes. AmberRose I can totally believe as Nyy'zai.
I can buy clothesencounters too, but her (whole) face seemed super expressive in the video, I thought. Could we say she's using a lot of Xyy/using it fairly well, just that it's not as energising for her? Because her expression *does* go above the midline, fairly frequently too. (I think.) She actually reminds me of some people I know, especially when the face cools, so that should be useful.
I can buy the juicy neurotic girl as Nyy'zai too, because she was very strange and I wasn't getting a clear handle on her aside from what seemed to be Ti-ish precision somewhere in the hierarchy, so none of my guesses had much weight to them. Though I did think she was F. But I suppose a lot of it seemed actor-y as well.
Jeanette being Nyy'zai - also buyable. Xyy didn't seem convincing on her, and I thought I saw some of the Nyy 'caught in headlights' look.
The one I'm having the biggest problem with is Tannah (ENFJ), probably, and maybe Britbliss (ENTP) too. Although iirc, charlieissocoollike was read as ENFJ too, and the two come across really similarly imo. But podlair's changed several of their reads from the past, so I'm not sure if charlie's still holds.
Wait, there's more?! Aaargh! Dammit! I have to take a break and get some stuff done. Maybe I'll come back to this later.
Frezned's Nai'xyy? Huh. That's funny, because his early stuff really reminds me of herwretchedlife's. Sort of awkward use of Xyy to further a Ne "false mimicry" agenda, in service of simultaneous ego-stroking and self-deprecation. He also really, really reminds me of myself, and of a friend who I'm fairly certain is Nyy'zai (known each other for years; easier to read over time than in short videos). Especially the awkward Ne jumpy/jittery/abrupt energy, and the way it interacts with Ti, and the products that comes up with. (Though a Ne-Si 'vibe' is something strongly associated with Aussies and Brits for some reason, so perhaps it's just that.) Also, if anyone's expression doesn't go past the midline, it's his! He puts in as much charm as he can muster and his face is still pretty stiff and dead around the cheeks. The energy, rhythm and inflections of his voice are also very NeTi, ime. His style of facial expressions, also all associated with a NeTi style ime. And his humour, puns etc. Of course I don't mean that only certain types come up with certain categories of jokes - it's his overall rhythm that makes him seem strongly (one type of) NeTi, and that rhythm reveals the grooves his mind runs along, and what he outputs follows almost inevitably from that, and can be easily traced back to that. (At least it seems that way.) Adymus typed him as ENTP in the past as well, though I suppose that'll just be dismissed now because he was at 80% or something.
Still haven't made any progress. Lyra insists that it doesn't take much time which I think would be true in the context of a young person with no family obligations. At any rate it for me the past few days have been filled up with Christmas etc.'s so nothing's happened.
Later on today I'll try to find some time to work on Lyra's latest suggestions.
Just to defend my posting of the matrix above as to whether it is on or off topic, it was suggested to me directly by Lyra himself. I thought it would detail what he said in a more inclusive and detailed manner. I don't have the same outlook on Pod'Lair as he does and I don't see why I and others should be shy about saying so. This includes the rare making fun of Pod'Lair I made later which I'm sure Pod'Lair can stand up to*. He is free to continue his teachings and they are appreciated by this poster.
If you are indeed a Zai'nyy, then your Uthur or Inspirational in terms of energetic momentum would be a Zyy'nai. Your Same-Source wold be Zai'vyy. Your 'opposite', in terms of running in direct energetic opposition to you, would be a Xai'vyy. Your super-polar (unconscous polar) is their source, your super-offside is their offside, etc. etc., in perfect symmetry. They however, would also be towers (discerning adaptives-- 'tower' represents both a cue-set of and the energetic behaviour of this category) and that would be a way to relate to them, so it's very complex.
My 'opposite' (corresponding to a Zai'nyy's Xai'vyy) is Vai'xyy, for example. But I actually am able to relate very well to Vai'xyy (Pod'Lair has helped me immensely in this) by our shared tandem xyy conducts and rituals, by seeing how they hunt like I do, by how they're serious like I am (they have a subjective perception power as source, and these powers are inherently serious), by how they're subjective directives like I am.
Adymus claims that Zai'nyy/INTP isn't that rare, that all mojos are equally found in the population, but that Zai'nyy/INTP are frequently mistaken for something else. If this is true then PL will have to explain why corporations target ESXX types (and their PL equivalents) for their marketing. The companies spend millions on this in the expectation of making millions. In other words, they know what they're doing, and they are going to target the most common types/mojos.
Personally I don't buy it. Typology has explained so much because it shows the differences and frequencies of same between people. This has been a huge help. I see no evidence that there are as many INTP/PL types/mojos are there are of the Sensor/?? equivalent.
Continuing there was talk about types we learn from. Again I have a hard time with this, the people mentioned aren't ones I find inspirational at all.
Otherwise the theory is equivalent to MBTI as explained.
How would one characterize that presentation by Adymus in Myer-Briggs language? I mean the presentation style, not what Adymus says he is (INTP) or the content of what he' is saying. INTJ? <-- if not, what?
How would one characterize that presentation by Adymus in Myer-Briggs language? I mean the presentation style, not what Adymus says he is (INTP) or the content of what he' is saying. INTJ? <-- if not, what?
I'm still not making much progress despite having viewed number of videos and read material. The problem is that either the videos are tedious and uninformative, or when they make sense they don't say much beyond MBTI. Reviewing the celebrity Readings from becoming doubtful of their methodology. The recent Einstein example is one which was a clear and obvious miss. I haven't dug into a in-depth but I'm seeing many others that look like obvious misses. Onward…
I'm reading this page today. Pretty well written though not everything is explained.
I'm postponing judgment on the nature of the Einstein evalution. If and when we hear back from Pod'Lair I think we will have a fascinating statement on the nature of -personality-, I mean, temperament theory.
I'm postponing judgment on the nature of the Einstein evalution. If and when we hear back from Pod'Lair I think we will have a fascinating statement on the nature of -personality-, I mean, temperament theory.
Meaning you think he might not be an INTP/Zai'nyy?
His famous dislike for 'the merely personal'. After having the obligatory marriage and children he left them to concentrate on this work.
Lone worker for the most part, though he did collaborate later in life
Able to see (sorry for the phrase) 'outside the box'
Despite this, also unable to reorder his mental image (Ti) of a rational universe with the seemingly unrational QM. INTPs can have amazing insights nobody else has (because of an independent pure Ti build worldview), along with amazing misses occasionally (Ne deficiency and gaps in the internal structure).
Didn't have close friends. It appeared that his housekeeper fulfilled his social needs (and possibly was his lover), plus his work colleagues.
Attire (not wearing socks, etc)
Science is mostly filled with ITJ's, Einstein is the clear standout ITP.
OK so I had PL do a 'Read' on me. I was chatting with Lyra about how to go about it, and he mentioned they were having a team meeting, and if I wanted then he could have the whole group do the Read. The disadvantage is that it wouldn't be a blind experiment since they know my online presence, the advantage is that I would get an expert read fast. Since I don't doubt PL's ability to Read people (their observations sync up with mine, but are much better developed) I took the expedient approach and sent the vid.
I'm not going to post the video (an off the cuff lecture on economics) but will provide the results here ...
So, I read you as a Zai'nyy instantly. The Team (who didn't know who you are) did as well. ...
-You tower deep. Zai users do tend to Zai up a bit when they're on cam anyway, so we weren't 100% sure how far this goes, but you have a very strong signal of Unflappable (distinct signal of Zai) in a way that involves holding your ground/being strong and assured in the position you take with it.
-Your voice has that thrown up from the bottom of a well quality that Zai has in a, again 'deep' way. Like it's very far down a well. You have good Zai momentum and are strong and firm in it, although this does suggest less fluid connectectivity with Xyy than is possible.
-Your Xyy is in fact a little less engaged/developed than it could be. I'm not suggesting you use him as a model, but Adymus' Xyy is one example of how strong/connected Zai'nyy Xyy can get by peaking.
-You are very good at channeling, and you do it a lot. Channeling is expressing/articulating whilst accessing a subjective power. So this is when your eyes go down to your right (Zai) or your left (Vai) or switch between the two for a somewhat extended period whilst you're talking.
-There's this character called Odo from Star Trek, apparently, who you give off quite strong 4th gear (similar riff) of. Like him you do double-downward rictus (both sides of your mouth contort down at the same time) with the air of shaking something off. This works with towers', and especially Zai's, air of shaking of irrelevancies/things not suitable to the position/things which would mess up tower-stability if not shaken off.
-In line with this, it's no surprise that you come off to people as an 'INTJ' online. This is just stereotype-misunderstanding. Everything you do is expressing Zai'nyy, just in a quite positional/strong/self-assured riff.
-The Team immediately read you as interestingly riffing like two riffs of Zai'nyy common amongst those who do well/go far socially. One is Physicist and another is Financial. I know this might seem shallow or mocked up given the info on the vid or that you've talked about here, but I'm including it anyway because it is of note. You might find it interesting to study other Zai'nyy with similar playing styles, or also successful Zai'nyy with very different playing styles.
-Your Nyy isn't 'bad', so to speak. It's working well. But it does seem perhaps (would help to see you in more contexts here) stronger on ideas/idea-exploration than on the general objective/social pattern-surfing aspects you could also use it in if you wanted to develop that way. I put this far down the list because it's possible this read on your power usage would change with additional context.
Basic cues: adaptive/yin/self-kept gesturing, zai-check source momentum. Tandem Nyy bouyancy/dancing-eyes/head bobble. Spider hands. Zai'nyy style of rictus. Well-voice. General physiognomy and 4th/5th gear. *
This is a very accurate assessment IMO, and correlates with what I've already determined from PL theory.
At this point in the review I don't doubt that PL can type/Read people due to the accuracies I've seen in their abilities in this regards and the correlation with my observations. However, I haven't seen what, if anything, they bring to the table beyond MBTI. I'll watch another video or two today however and report here.
* Notes on the read for those interested
Zai'nyy'vai'xyy is the apparatus/functional stack, corresponding to Ti/Ne/Si/Fe.
In the context of the video which was a declarative lecture on economics, I wasn't using much Ne as they noted, and little Fe. Depending on context both come out more.
They picked up on some interesting small things - for instance how I downturn the mouth (frankly this habit has been bugging me) as a cue for dropping irrelevancies. More evidence for the accuracy with which they read.
Further thoughts, I do like their concept of 'riffs'. In my example I'm an INTP which is a self doubting type which I very much do. This is due to our analytical nature which questions everything. However, I come off as confident and self assured. This is due to the fact that I'm mature and have done well for myself, partially by coming off as a self assured kind of asshole (if you portray a successful asshole, other people will believe it too in the business world).
In Jungian psychology this is known as a 'Persona', but I like the term 'riff' better as it more accurately captures the idea of an small act that you put on.
For the review it's not ideal. I think you should have gone with the blind experiment. I did once, and they couldn't read me. First the picture(that I did with two flashes and proper equipment), and they said they needed video. Then they got video, but I didn't hear more from them. I actually found this to be positives, except wasting my time, seems they are not going to do a read if they are not sure.
I do think you should have gone for the blind read, or still conduct one with someone else. And not only that, 3-4 of them could do it simultaneous and separably, and submit their answers directly without consulting each other, to rule out confirmation bias.
For the review it's not ideal. I think you should have gone with the blind experiment. I did once, and they couldn't read me. First the picture(that I did with two flashes and proper equipment), and they said they needed video. Then they got video, but I didn't hear more from them. I actually found this to be positives, except wasting my time, seems they are not going to do a read if they are not sure.
I do think you should have gone for the blind read, or still conduct one with someone else. And not only that, 3-4 of them could do it simultaneous and separably, and submit their answers directly without consulting each other, to rule out confirmation bias.
Yes ideally, I agree with you. However in this case I'm not trying to verify their ability to read. I'm not conducting a scientific experiment, and I already believe they have something new which is the visual cues. In this 'review' I'm trying to drive towards what (if anything) they have to offer beyond the Read. At any rate I think in my case they would have come up with the same assessment, I'm easy to see as a mature INTP so regardless wouldn't have been a good test case.
If you're (this to the group at large) interested in testing their processes I suggest making a video and submitting it anonymously.
For the review it's not ideal. I think you should have gone with the blind experiment. I did once, and they couldn't read me. First the picture(that I did with two flashes and proper equipment), and they said they needed video. Then they got video, but I didn't hear more from them. I actually found this to be positives, except wasting my time, seems they are not going to do a read if they are not sure.
I do think you should have gone for the blind read, or still conduct one with someone else. And not only that, 3-4 of them could do it simultaneous and separably, and submit their answers directly without consulting each other, to rule out confirmation bias. .
Not that I really think that this is the best way to test it, but it was essentially blind by your standards. Other Readers Read him independently of me, we then went over cues and riffs etc together, and they didn't realise he was Architect from INTPf until I told them later on. That said, we do plan on somewhat more convincing demonstrations than that in the future.
@crippli that we 'couldn't read' you is flat out wrong. Send a 10 minute video to us via youtube and we'll Read you. We never hold back on Reads with this level of evidence. I can't say what happened in your case, but as a rule we Read anybody who wants to be Read, and we can read anybody. Perhaps you caught us at a busy time during an earlier stage in the rollout, but you're making very incorrect inferences upon that very shaky foundation.
I'll post my reply about differences from MBTI in a moment...
So, on how Pod'Lair differs from MBTI. This is somewhat tailored to you personally, and leaves out some common points I suspect are distractions in terms of your current stage of research [...]
Basics:
1. We are able to Read, and what that ability demonstrates is that every published MBTI expert is unable to do so with any high level of accuracy. Our methods for determining cognitive configuration are superior.
2. We justify this with a very strong explication of precisely what a particular configuration will manifest in terms that can't just be explained away in terms of a behavioral narrative. That is: every Zai'nyy has the same basic cue set you do, and everybody who displays the momentum pattern and life-story of a Zai'nyy has the same cue set. People are thus able/required to build their representation of what a Config is from samples up, instead of from misconstrued story down. Learning to Read forces accuracy, and the low read-accuracy of all former experts demonstrates the necessity of this method.
3. We upgrade this, empirically speaking, to an very different level which actually has implications for society. I.e. we have a very strong argument (according to us) that this is an objective sense true, and that we can explicate it clearly and thus realise implications for how humans are concieved of in the construction of social systems etc. with a clout MBTI could not.
Moving onto what that shows, specifically, which is probably of more interest to you:
4. Instant identification of configuration and development/riff/power usage.
5. Real time observation of power interaction with concepts being used and actions being taken. So you can see what relation a particular concept etc. has to how a person is using their Config.
6. Real time observation of power-to-power interactions and modulations and momentums in social/interpersonal settings.
7. The introduction of the concept of modulation. MBTI only deals with habitual preference. It doesn't recognise in any clear sense (see Quenck's work-- 'In the Grip' for the apex of where it went) how powers operate in real-time or very much perceivable modulation relationships with one another.
8. Clarity about energetic momentum generally. MBTI has the idea that powers have something to do with energetic preference, but the conception is incredibly primitive in relation to what we introduced for the first time a couple of years ago. We identify and teach people to Read and discuss specific riffs and power-interactions in terms of modulation/momentum, and we understand how they relate to efficacy and potency/momentum generally.
9. Social Alchemy. We understand how people modulate/give-momentum to one another. This can be seen in reading, but is most useful in terms of personal life path and constructing successful social endeavours. We understand what relationships give the most energetic momentum and likelihood of genius/excellence, what kinds of high-level groupings of powers tend to produce what. etc. And in all of these cases we can produce examples for you to study this for yourself, and see if what we say is going on is going in that particular case.
10. The example-backed concepts of keening, synomnia and stresslock. Keening is when a person's energy all kind of warps onto their polar power. It's a high-stakes style contortion of being that can be incredibly effective and necessary but which often leads to system-overload long term. We understand this relationship in terms of our clarified conception of momentum/modulation and can provide examples of it. Streslock: how a person can become broken into or forced into using their modulation powers far too heavily, in a way that shuts down momentum. How this leads to many misreads. What this looks like, specifically. How it can be remedied. Synomnia: how powers work together in unison and conceptions of what this tends to look like in different Configs.
11. The Peak Pathway. This relates, again, to the clarity about energetic relationships in Pod'Lair. It's been said that the quest for the perfect pereptual motion machine was a driving idea in the development in much of the West's physical technology. Pod'Lair is a bit like a quest for the perpetual motion machine of human psychic exertion and up-scaling. It's designed to do this on a social level, as a form of practical transhumanism. On a personal scale, though, this is the Peak Pathway. The Peak Pathway is how energy flows most powerfully from the source power, down through the tandem, down through the offside, to the Polar. How effective development and genius come from using this right, how to maintain and build momentum by hacking using this and using the Social Alchemy understandings. etc. etc.
11. The Unconscious Powers and the Peak Pathway. Pod'Lair reads, via reading energetic momentum/modulation interactions, the unconscious/'Uthur' config of a person. This actually forms the other half of the Peak Pathway, which is actually a kind of cycle. Once you hit your Polar by following your Source momentum effectively enough that a product is able to Peak down-to/be communicated through the Polar, an unconscious 'wave swell' kicks in. This is your Uthur. For you it is Zyy>Nai>Vyy>Xai.
12. Conscious understanding of, and development in accordance with, this formerly never clarified aspect of the human being. When we train people to Read they can see this. It's there. It's part of you. We can teach you about it.
13. 'Spirit Forming'. This is the idea that we are actually elegant and beautiful psychic constructions with a lot more signals/personal guidance than we realise. The Pod Powers are conceived of fundamentally a energy forms advocating for a particular kind of focus to become dominant. But a configuration itself, as a Synomnia combination of those powers, is also a Spirit Form. The Peak Pathway is a Spirit Form. The Uthur is a Spirit Form. We train people to read these and channel them, providing them with a personal wisdom, strength, and guidance that's never been offered in such a clarified or empirically grounded form before now. We provide and justify a fundamentally different model of psychic functioning and health than any currently prevalent or institutionally accepted model, and with actual empirical justification far in excess of what any such model has. This can't fairly be dismissed as ambiguous esoteric waffle, unlike so many other challenges to those models.
14. Cultural Analysis. Our statistics are right. We can Read who's who, where, with a far stronger foundation. So we can analyse the Cog. Config phenomenon in relation to society and life-paths and distributions etc. This is far better than most of the Social Science being done right now, and gives a far more useful/accurate picture of what's going on.
15. Memetic analysis. Because we can Read in real time, we can see how certain memetic contructs or orientations interact with particular configurations or Powers. We can see how and why people become broken in terms of the Energetic Momentum phenomenon.
16. Power isolation. We can show you what a particular power looks like in usage, and separate out irrelevancies from that. Nobody came close to the level of clarity and precision of personal representation/Read-ability before this.
17. The concept of 'Heroic'. This actually unfolds directly from the recognition of how the Peak Pathway works. It rewards/Peak on feats of gaining momentum with and answering what its Powers advocate for. In, say, a Nai'xyy or Zai'nyy this is going to be very different from and more esoteric and beautiful than currently prevalent mundane/ev.psychology/Freudian/whatever conceptions of human beings allow. And it is far more precise and accurate and justified and integrated as a unified understanding of how humans work than any Jungian concept of individuation. Basically, if you listen to your Peak Pathway you gain energy, momentum, brilliance, strength of character. We can show this in Reading. And it suggests that humans are built to, as we describe it, 'shine'.
18. Will to Shine. See above. We're actually beautiful creatures and need to all realise that, and learn and respect how one another best and variously does that, and how the current memetic climate is not amenable to certain Configs. Crushes them. Society would work better for everybody if we all go this. Kids wouldn't so often be crushed/folded for just being what they are, we'd be clearer about what to pathologise, people would know how to form Social Alchemy groupings to allow certain Power Usages at will. Etc. etc. This is no little thing. If we are right this is of utmost importance. If we have falsifiable evidence of the phenomenon and can teach people to read it, and this just is happening, it needs clarification and remedy.
19. Ability to accurately identify other Riffs and Playing Styles of one's own Config. Thus a clean sample basis for altering one's own energetic playing style.
20. Vision. We could do so much, become transhuman, go so far, if we began to hack this phenomenon personally and collectively in accordance with a readily communicable and clarified way of perceiving it to very high levels of precision. This is ultimately what we want. We are as good or better a bet than any kind of AI. We deal with the basic resource driving and constraining all other forms of prorgress or transhuman endeavour: human talent.
Probably other stuff I forgot. A lot. Hope this was useful and perhaps communicated how this really isn't a mish-mash or Syncretic. It's a vision that unfolds out from Reading. Or that can be grounded entirely in terms of it.
Not that I really think that this is the best way to test it, but it was essentially blind by your standards. Other Readers Read him independently of me, we then went over cues and riffs etc together, and they didn't realise he was Architect from INTPf until I told them later on. That said, we do plan on somewhat more convincing demonstrations than that in the future.
Yes I think PL has demonstrated their ability to type/read to a higher degree of accuracy than MBTI, which is why I was so surprised at the Einstein read. Sure mistakes happen on either side, but I'm very doubtful of that one as he happens to be somebody I've extensively studied (typing/reading past historical figures isn't easy at any rate.)
The question for me - and the direction and ultimate result I intended for this thread, is whether the rest of PL theory is sufficiently developed and worthwhile to stand on it's own, or is it better (for us MBTI fans at least) to take the Read information back into MBTI. To be continued ...
-You are very good at channeling, and you do it a lot. Channeling is expressing/articulating whilst accessing a subjective power. So this is when your eyes go down to your right (Zai) or your left (Vai) or switch between the two for a somewhat extended period whilst you're talking.
A little more focus on this would give me some specific insight into the theory I think. Why is channeling useful, or is it? Is it something you advocate a person consciously use, or do you view it as simply part of a persons persona? Other comments about channeling welcome ...
@crippli that we 'couldn't read' you is flat out wrong. Send a 10 minute video to us via youtube and we'll Read you. We never hold back on Reads with this level of evidence. I can't say what happened in your case, but as a rule we Read anybody who wants to be Read, and we can read anybody. Perhaps you caught us at a busy time during an earlier stage in the rollout, but you're making very incorrect inferences upon that very shaky foundation.
Good point. I see this. Although, with a stretch imo there is a bit of justification for the conclusion as they did promise at least to do a soft read if a picture was provided, and when they didn't reply after submitting video they give some freedom to conclude as I saw fit. But that's why I included the premise, due to exactly what you write. So that you(all) could judge it's accuracy. Anyway, I lost air in my balloon. Let's see here though what you and Architect can do to refill. I actually have a personal interest in physical cues. You may not know me, but there are things with this system that could solve some of my problems. But it would be of importance that it gets it right, or else it could very well go the other way around. The abstract aspect of MBTI makes it more harmless imo when it's inaccurate, as it's more easily invalidated. As it is I have achieved some resemblance of stability, but a bit fragile, so I wouldn't want to evolve backwards again, if not necessary.
Whenever I see the people talking about being empirical in typology context it is often sorounded by a terrible understanding of what it means to be empirical in the first place. How has Podlair secured the empirical verification that you mention?
Furthermore, what are the statistics that you refer to in relation to social culture. How were these statistics created?
OK so I had PL do a 'Read' on me. I was chatting with Lyra about how to go about it, and he mentioned they were having a team meeting, and if I wanted then he could have the whole group do the Read. The disadvantage is that it wouldn't be a blind experiment since they know my online presence, the advantage is that I would get an expert read fast. Since I don't doubt PL's ability to Read people (their observations sync up with mine, but are much better developed) I took the expedient approach and sent the vid.
This is a very accurate assessment IMO, and correlates with what I've already determined from PL theory.
At this point in the review I don't doubt that PL can type/Read people due to the accuracies I've seen in their abilities in this regards and the correlation with my observations.
* Notes on the read for those interested
Zai'nyy'vai'xyy is the apparatus/functional stack, corresponding to Ti/Ne/Si/Fe.
In the context of the video which was a declarative lecture on economics, I wasn't using much Ne as they noted, and little Fe. Depending on context both come out more.
They picked up on some interesting small things - for instance how I downturn the mouth (frankly this habit has been bugging me) as a cue for dropping irrelevancies. More evidence for the accuracy with which they read.
Architect. I don't doubt much Pod'Lair's ability to read either but have a few minor trivial questions. Pardon me if they've already been addressed.
-The Team immediately read you as interestingly riffing like two riffs of Zai'nyy common amongst those who do well/go far socially. One is Physicist and another is Financial.
Am I correct that this is just a comment and not a reading? What this says is your reading is consistent with what they already know you are which is physicist.
Did you say the team didn't know you? If so, wouldn't Adymus be on that team as he must know you?
Did the team read independently or score independently? Or was this a team consensus of all in the same room? If the latter, these would not be independent readings, but conforming ones. Did any member of the team have contrary readings? This we do not know.
Is that Avatar you? Again, if Adymus was in there, he would recognize you and be pulled toward ZaiNyy.
Am I correct that this is just a comment and not a reading? What this says is your reading is consistent with what they already know you are which is physicist.
Minor point but I was a physicist, I quit the field for IT. Unless Lyra is lying - which I don't believe and don't see any reason for him to, my understanding is that he presented my video to the team and they read me blind. Later he told them it was Architect (I don't know how much any of them know me otherwise - maybe Adymus).
Did you say the team didn't know you? If so, wouldn't Adymus be on that team as he must know you?
My avatar is The Architect from The Matrix. Though I have only a little grey the physical Architect represents me well enough, and I heavily identify with the character (professionally and personally) so it's a good representation. When I was younger I probably would have chosen Neo.
At any rate the vid was on a YouTube account that has nothing to do with this account, so no connection there.
It's not necessary for the Read on this thread as PL has plenty of example videos, but I think there is voyeuristic value in seeing me. Which I understand, we get these avatar personalities of each other but it's nice to see a picture or video. However, maybe because I predate the internet I still have quaint notions of privacy.
Between Monica Lewinsky, Paris Hilton and Facebook I think privacy has all but disappeared. YouTube fosters an actual online presence on Google+, and now they encourage you to use your real picture and name on YouTube.
Long winded answer, the short answer is while I have some 'real presence' accounts online, I haven't opened up yet on some such as INTPf and won't post the video at any rate. The anonymity affords me greater freedom, I talk much more on this site than on others because of it. But I haven't decided yet if it'll stay that way. I've kicked around the idea of having a picture - perhaps photoshopped in some way - that gives an idea of what I look like without giving it all away.
Or maybe I'm over-thinking it. In the early days of the internet I had a boss look me up, and he found some hobby pages of mine (not a lot of stuff available back then). Creeped me out, but that was 17 years ago.
A little more focus on this would give me some specific insight into the theory I think. Why is channeling useful, or is it? Is it something you advocate a person consciously use, or do you view it as simply part of a persons persona? Other comments about channeling welcome ...
Looking for examples currently. I've seen a lot of them before but it seems we haven't updated them to the Virtual Village. I'll note them down as a I find them.
With regards to channeling, it does indicate effective Synomnia (co-operative Power usage, different to or greater than the sum of its component energies) and is developmental. People can also stop using their objective powers to access their subjective ones, and then re-engage in a kind of stop-start way. Channeling is a more fluid psychic maneuver; most people do it to some extent, but good development in terms of it tends to come with an ability to express subjective perspective more fluently and coherently.
You can actually learn to do it consciously, although explicit exercises aren't how we've gone about that, at least so far. It's more being aware of the possibility, noticing it when you are doing it, and gradually learning to pilot your ship in such a way as to utilise it more consciously.
How much and when a person channels is certainly related to riff/circumstance, of course. The best way to get a feel for this and the possibilities available is to pay attention to both oneself and other clean samples of Zai'nyy. This builds a practical/working representation which fosters deliberate navigation.
If you're short on samples from our current main list (it's a bit out of date, and doesn't contain anything near all the strong reads we've done), you can find additional ones via our HHH PSAs and our 'Typology Town' list in the 'Mojo Reading Evidence' section of our site.
Edit:
(Just to avoid confusion: channeling is articulating whilst accessing a subjective power in an expressed way. Double-channeling is articulating whilst accessing both subjective powers. We also Read double-barreling, which is expressed use of both objective powers in unison. Almost all activities have very subtle aspects of these-- when we use them we refer to significant and readable psychic maneuvers.)
It's not necessary for the Read on this thread as PL has plenty of example videos, but I think there is voyeuristic value in seeing me. Which I understand, we get these avatar personalities of each other but it's nice to see a picture or video. However, maybe because I predate the internet I still have quaint notions of privacy.
Between Monica Lewinsky, Paris Hilton and Facebook I think privacy has all but disappeared. YouTube fosters an actual online presence on Google+, and now they encourage you to use your real picture and name on YouTube.
Long winded answer, the short answer is while I have some 'real presence' accounts online, I haven't opened up yet on some such as INTPf and won't post the video at any rate. The anonymity affords me greater freedom, I talk much more on this site than on others because of it. But I haven't decided yet if it'll stay that way. I've kicked around the idea of having a picture - perhaps photoshopped in some way - that gives an idea of what I look like without giving it all away.
Or maybe I'm over-thinking it. In the early days of the internet I had a boss look me up, and he found some hobby pages of mine (not a lot of stuff available back then). Creeped me out, but that was 17 years ago.
(Just to avoid confusion: channeling is articulating whilst accessing a subjective power in an expressed way. Double-channeling is articulating whilst accessing both subjective powers. We also Read double-barreling, which is expressed use of both objective powers in unison. Almost all activities have very subtle aspects of these-- when we use them we refer to significant and readable psychic maneuvers.)
So, I spent the evening last night watching videos of celebrity INTP's being interviewed, including Larry David, Jim Parsons and Wes Anderson, with the hard gained knowledge of Pod'Lair Reading of that type. Having myself Read did help. Interesting so far, I'm beginning to see what they're talking about. People do give off physiological cues as they access powers, or functions. Watching them do this does look to be some kind of weaving of energy in real time - maybe the 'energy evolving' they talk about.
Tonight I'll expand out to the INTJ type (and PL equivalent) and the 'inspirational type'/mojo, the INTP/PL opposite.
Copied from Correlation, Causation etc. thread. Relevant as an answer to the riffs question:
'Edit 2: FYI Lisa Randall is Zyy'nai and Lawrence Krauss is Nyy'zai, and there are quite a lot of Zai'nyy out of the most prominent Physicists. Richard Feynman, Martin Rees, David Bohm, David Deutsch, Freeman Dyson, Murray Gell-Mann, Clifford Johnson...
Edit 3: Just to finish off giving you playing-style/riff, samples, Architect: that's quite a lot of Zai'nyy physicists above. The only Financial expert I can find on lists I have right now is Mohamed El-Erian. I'll see if I can find more of the riff I was talking about.'
OK thanks. Yes I can believe El-Erian is so (I'm quite familiar with him as he is managing 1/3 of my wealth).
Further thoughts. The problem with MBTI is that, for example, while Ti is a good handle for describing a psychic state externally, it's not as good from a personal standpoint. What is Ti - OK Internal/Introverted Thinking. But what is that exactly? When I'm doing Ti, it's usually not verbal which is implied by thinking. It's more often 'seeing', or 'feeling' a global picture from a set of some data. Such as trying to understand PL. I have a bunch of facts, and my Ti approach to it is to see or find the forest for the trees. Looking for patterns really.
With the PL approach to Ti, namely Zyy, you understand it not so much from a mechanistic standpoint (Ti), but from a experiential standpoint. By seeing people use Ti, and the cues they give off by doing so, you see it more for how it acts than by how we intellectualize it.
However, it seems that PL theory is primarily a social theory. People give off cues to other people. When sitting at your desk doing your work you won't gesture when you access Ne or Ti. If true then PL theory is not the ultimate theory of psyche, but a particular angle on it, namely social dynamics.
@Architect, I think it was just a typo on your part, but Ti roughly equates to Zai, not to Zyy. Zyy is most closely approximate by Te.
In response to your point: IME the representation formed by external reading generates a far greater degree of clarity about one's own usage. You might also like to look into the Power Flows, which deal with the 'internal' way a power works with more clarity and workable complexity than any other theory I've seen. This is how I came to truly understand and began to be able to hack my own Nai.
Also, Peak Pathway, momentum/modulation, and all the points I outlined in my long post earlier on this page all apply to and elucidate 'internal' or personal usage.
Finally, Pod'Lair's literal evidence is cues based, but we derive/work with interpretive or personally applicable understandings in tandem with that.
Thanks, no I probably just got it wrong. The nomenclature doesn't stick to my ribs, and using the ' character makes it worse. Impossible to do a search in a web page as regex parsers (used everywhere) use that as a literal quote character.
In response to your point: IME the representation formed by external reading generates a far greater degree of clarity about one's own usage.
You might also like to look into the Power Flows, which deal with the 'internal' way a power works with more clarity and workable complexity than any other theory I've seen. This is how I came to truly understand and began to be able to hack my own Nai.
Also, Peak Pathway, momentum/modulation, and all the points I outlined in my long post earlier on this page all apply to and elucidate 'internal' or personal usage.
I went to YouTube, trolled around the PL videos for a while. Started a number of them, but many started with "Before watching this video you should watch X, Y and Z." So I look for X, Y and Z but don't find them. Try another video, ah, this on is on something, Zyy'vai, what is that again? I look at the PL web page on it ... lots of words, doesn't tell me anything though. Looks like some type of 'T'hinker type ... looking at the people they Read as such, looks like some kind of STJ. OK, go to the Sourcebook, look it up (can't do a search and no index!!! just page down painfully until I find it) and find ... the same information. Give up for now, I wasted a half hour, I post this note and now I'll eat some pretzels and write graphics code for my Life's Project. My INTP will come up in an hour and want to watch an episode of Redwall.
Went to the beach earlier to take pics on a beautiful day with the family. Good New Years overall.
Try another video, ah, this on is on something, Zyy'vai, what is that again? I look at the PL web page on it ... lots of words, doesn't tell me anything though.
I found that I had to do the tedious task of memorizing a few things, but there is a sort of pattern to it.
ai, introverted, yy extroverted. Z->T, X->F, N-intuitive, V-sensor. If you remember this you can map them as the 8 functions that you are familiar with.
So Zyy'vai will be TeSi-ESTJ. T(Z) extroverted(yy), and S(V) introverted(ai).
The latter is closed in the sense it is self-contained using its own private jargon and refusing to credit where its ideas came from. MBTI is open to everyone. Just look at the literature which appeals to everyone.
A closed system retains its integrity; an open one is available to growth. The MBTI should incorporate the sensual readings of Pod'Lair as well as brain scans to become more accurate.
That's ridiculous. The MBTI cannot grow because of its unfalsifiable stereotypes and lack of investigative/methodological clarity, and it has not grown for many, many decades now. Pod'Lair is deliberately designed so that those working in terms of the evidence can grow and add to it, and its terminology will ultimately be no more exclusive. It's just unfamiliar and difficult now-- but that's necessary.
We are getting the basics in place now and are pushing hard. But we are going to be putting up the Journalism channel and more individual member channels soon, where it will become apparent that we are not 'closed'. What we are is superior, and beyond conjecture, and right.
The MBTI will incorporate nothing, because it has no epistemological clarity and no dialectical medium, falsifiable approach, or clear area of evidence to forcefully debate and extrapolate precise implications/contradictions/consistencies from. It's amateur hour, basically.
Architect you wouldn't have that Sourcebook link, would you? I lost it, did a seach on Pod'Lair but came up with nothing. I have a copy but no link. One may do a search via ctl-F and find things easily. Let me know if you have trouble. Happy New Year to you and yours.
That's ridiculous. The MBTI cannot grow because of its unfalsifiable stereotypes and lack of investigative/methodological clarity, and it has not grown for many, many decades now. Pod'Lair is deliberately designed so that those working in terms of the evidence can grow and add to it, and its terminology will ultimately be no more exclusive. It's just unfamiliar and difficult now-- but that's necessary.
We are getting the basics in place now and are pushing hard. But we are going to be putting up the Journalism channel and more individual member channels soon, where it will become apparent that we are not 'closed'. What we are is superior, and beyond conjecture, and right.
I'm of the opinion that MBTI is broken also, but to claim it hasn't grown in decades is just being ignorant.
Pod'Lair is closed, it's a community and a religion that can't be added to unless you follow it. You can't tell me you or Adymus or any of the others are seriously open to outside criticism and suggestion for Pod'Lair theory or practice.
That's ridiculous. The MBTI cannot grow because of its unfalsifiable stereotypes and lack of investigative/methodological clarity, and it has not grown for many, many decades now. Pod'Lair is deliberately designed so that those working in terms of the evidence can grow and add to it, and its terminology will ultimately be no more exclusive. It's just unfamiliar and difficult now-- but that's necessary.
Isn't it naturally for any newer theory to "grow" more readily than its older counterpart?
We are getting the basics in place now and are pushing hard. But we are going to be putting up the Journalism channel and more individual member channels soon, where it will become apparent that we are not 'closed'. What we are is superior, and beyond conjecture, and right.
Superior and right? Do I need to salute or genuflect to anyone?
The MBTI will incorporate nothing, because it has not epistemological clarity and no dialectical medium or falsifiable approach. It's amateur hour, basically.
You owe your entire existence to Jung, stop kidding yourself.
Ultimately you're vainly trying to discredit the wellspring of Pod'Lair's raison d'être.
It betrays an overcooked ambition and lack of originality. MBTI isn't some random attack. You are poisoning the waters of your competition, and source material.
I found that I had to do the tedious task of memorizing a few things, but there is a sort of pattern to it.
ai, introverted, yy extroverted. Z->T, X->F, N-intuitive, V-sensor. If you remember this you can map them as the 8 functions that you are familiar with.
So Zyy'vai will be TeSi-ESTJ. T(Z) extroverted(yy), and S(V) introverted(ai).
Architect you wouldn't have that Sourcebook link, would you? I lost it, did a seach on Pod'Lair but came up with nothing. I have a copy but no link. One may do a search via ctl-F and find things easily. Let me know if you have trouble. Happy New Year to you and yours.
Oh no. Not YOU again! Bugging me with your slanted views and personal innuendo. You didn't understand what I meant and don't bother to ask. Why are you so hot on Pod'Lair anyway?
Why can't all you guys of -both- all systems work together and expand? MBTI has the foundation, history and social awareness. Pod'Lair has a -gimmick- technique. Auburn's work has a visual contribution also. So does Dario Nardi. What is all this competition about? We want to learn about human behavior.
These are not rhetorical questions. YOU are not able (I'm being polite) to answer because your vision is a narrow one.
Why not ALL work together? If you don't then somebody should say something ... maybe this Forum?
Auburn has no 'work'. I headed up PHY with him and he has nothing.
Typologists have nothing to give to Pod'Lair whilst still using MBTI. Calling Pod'Lair a 'gimmick' again demonstrates how little you have studied of our material before going on your posting spree about it.
I have explained the competition before. I have explained all of this before. For God's sake just go and read it. Why do you expect me to repeat the same arguments over and over in response to every new, uninformed post you make? I'm not replying to you again until you demonstrate a working understanding of what we're talking about, and that you've read my former postings.
As long as this thread is titled, "Pod'Lair review", I will give a personal opinion. A few hours ago before my wife and I sat down to a good movie, I was on a thread about social interaction. I gave a link about a very simple way to handle social differences. It is widely used in the corporate world. I gave the link but didn't get into it too deeply.
A Pod'Lair link was given. It was awful, simply awful. Ordinarily I wouldn't say that because if the promotion of Pod'lair here were open and discussable I would offer help or at least solicit help on improvements. But with the presence of personal innuendo on my person and others, I only give my personal emotional reaction which was that link was an hour of horror ... I have no words.
I read a good deal of your stuff. You don't know how to write unambiguously and often fail to give links expecting people to have memorized your terms. Why should I trust what you say when you don't read what I write? I did not call Pod'Lair a "gimmick" ... at least not on my copy in my message. Go back and read what I said. I said, "technique." On 2nd thought I withdraw that order. I will not give you orders. You are free to run your own ship.
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