Planning Experiment

[Sugarpop]

Last weekend I got tired of the general lack of structure to my being lately. I decided that I should structure every day of the week next meticulously and establish some good habits.

I wake up at 6 am, run for half an hour, exercise and go to school, where I systematically complete various chores written on a piece of paper that I carry with me at all times. When I get home, I continue in the same vein of doing various chores in a systematic, linear fashion until 7 pm when I go for a walk, followed by some additional relaxing exercise and a meal. I go to bed no later than 8 pm. Essentially, I attempt to control all aspects of my day and not take any initiative unless planned in advance, which is a stark contrast to my usually improvized daily life and rampant circardian rhythm.

My objective is to emulate a more J-like attitude. I do not intend to become a J, or even try to live like one past this week, but I would like to gain some experience in a different way of thinking. Even though I have established some external structure, I don't feel like I'm able to get into the right mindset.

Done anything like this?

 

[ViS]

TJ types don't live by schedules. The way they structure their lives so well is due to them having a clear vision of their objectives in all aspects of life. Instead of scheduling your activities, try to consciously think about what you need to do and how you could spend your time better than you already are.

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

Yep I've done this. Not in awhile, though. Sometimes it lasts for weeks, sometimes for a day, sometimes for an hour. Maybe I get more stuff accomplished, but I'm also WAY more stressed. It's difficult constantly living contrary to your natural constitution.

 

[Sugarpop]

The key might be clearly defined goals. Write everything on a piece of a paper and have specific 'rules'. Things have a way of taking to much time or not being done if you don't. Problem is I find it hard to sensibly estimate how long time something might take, which is a problem as my current system is centered a lot around specific timespans.

Is there no way of following through and getting things done that is not in conflict with my nature? I would like to make a system that allows me to do all the fun stuff I want. Without any form of plan, I get stuck in a rut and easily fall prey to ennui.

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

The key might be clearly defined goals. Write everything on a piece of a paper and have specific 'rules'. Things have a way of taking too much time or not being done if you don't. Problem is I find it hard to sensibly estimate how long time something might take...

Yeah, that's kind of a major part of our natures, I think. I can't estimate how long anything will take at all. I have no concept of time. And its even more difficult with creative pursuits. I hear or read all of the time about writer's goals of writing one thousand words a day or whatever and I have no idea how they do it. It's not like they're churning out widgets- some days the ideas flow and some days they don't. I could decide on writing three hours a day, I suppose, and I did this for a long time. It seemed to be helpful, and I need to return to it. (A bit harder on summer break.) But I don't know how you estimate how long it will take to actually complete things like that. What sort of things are you trying to get done?

And if I set up any sort of rules I instantly want to break them. The word rule in and of itself triggers a panic attack.

 

[nightowl]

Excellent response, Brain!

As Brain wrote, it would be helpful to know what sort of things are you trying to do. Also, are you playing catch-up or reasonably on schedule at this point?

 

[Sugarpop]

I'm trying to turn this into a general discussion about structure and planning, using my own experience as an example.

My worries primarily concern schoolwork. If it had only been homework, I'd have an easy time, but I'm in a program where I have to write quite a lot of extensive essays and such.

I also find myself unable to do enough fun things on my spare time. While I only really want to read an interesting book, do something outside or learn something, I get trapped by boring, yet temporarily rewarding activities, such as internet surfing and watching TV, that drive me into ennui.

EDIT: I'm slightly behind schedule. Would prefer to be ahead though, and accomplish things without spending so much spare time sitting around procrastinating some essay.

 

[Liontiger]

I've done something similar to this when I needed to get schoolwork done. It did work, but I found it extremely tiring. You can really only keep it up for so long, and I could only do it one day at a time. I find that it helps a little bit if you schedule in "idle" time, which I use to wander around both physically and mentally Also, alarms help to keep you on schedule. Otherwise, you might be tempted to take 5 more minutes (read: 30 more minutes).

 

[preilemus]

interesting. if you want to get in the right mindset, might I recommend meditation? when you do it, focus on a specific phrase like "I am organized", "I am systematic", etc.

this is just a suggestion, but if you want to work on internalizing something, the best thing for it is to utilize things that work on the internal self

 

[Android]

I find that some structure is okay, but when I've tried to do things similarly to what you're doing, it just gets me really stressed and unhappy. Most days, I get up and cook breakfast (rice and eggs every day), then I smoke a cigarette and drink coffee for 15-30 minutes and think about what I should/want to do that day. After that I spend an hour dedicated to writing.. if I'm not getting much done I stop after the hour.. though sometimes I'll write all morning or longer. Somebody made a comment about writing a 1000 words a day seeming like a lot.. I probably would have thought that in the past, but with structured time for writing it's pretty easy to accomplish. Hell.. on a good day I'll knock out 15-20 pages sometimes. I normally go for a long walk or run at some point, most often at night. If I set a rule for how my day should be structured, I never follow it religiously.. there's a reason I made the rule, and reasons to break it.

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

on a good day I'll knock out 15-20 pages sometimes.

Well, yeah, on a good day I can do that, too. The point I was trying to make is that certain writers stick to a schedule of doing a certain number of words per day. For example, I read about a writer who cranks out 10,000 a day no matter what. It just seems kind of... tyrannical and anal. But it works for her, obviously, because she is a big time well-respected writer. I just can't imagine it working for me. I think it would be stressful to have that hanging over my head, while if I say I am going to write for three hours, I can just write... la la la... and it's pleasant.

 

[echoplex]

Sorry, you completely lost me on the part about writing your activities down on paper. Oh, and go to bed "no later" than 8 pm? I would feel so depressed if I did this, although I might get more done.

I suppose it's a valuable experiment though. It would be interesting to see how an extreme-J approach works for you. I'm sure there would be plenty of pros and cons. I don't think I would last long at such a plan.

 

[Beat Mango]

The plan is not the Jness, though. The plan is the result of the Jness, as ViS said. It's like how they say Fe is being aware of everyone in the group etc, well, same thing: that's not Fe, that's just what follows naturally fromhaving Fe.

 

[Sugarpop]

interesting. if you want to get in the right mindset, might I recommend meditation? when you do it, focus on a specific phrase like "I am organized", "I am systematic", etc.

this is just a suggestion, but if you want to work on internalizing something, the best thing for it is to utilize things that work on the internal self

I've considered this. Problem is I don't know how to truly meditate. My previous attempts generally spawned some interesting daydreaming but no inner peace.

Sorry, you completely lost me on the part about writing your activities down on paper. Oh, and go to bed "no later" than 8 pm? I would feel so depressed if I did this, although I might get more done.

I suppose it's a valuable experiment though. It would be interesting to see how an extreme-J approach works for you. I'm sure there would be plenty of pros and cons. I don't think I would last long at such a plan.

Writing things down is incredibly useful. It's a tangible reminder on what I'm supposed to do. Otherwise I'm prone to forget my priorities.

Last night I went to bed after 11 pm. I can't seem to break off an interesting discussion when I enter one. Getting up at 6 am is mentally rewarding, but initially feels very wrong physically. I've been able to do it, though. I've exercised a little, but jogging in the morning rain really isn't as romantic as it might sound.

The plan is not the Jness, though. The plan is the result of the Jness, as ViS said. It's like how they say Fe is being aware of everyone in the group etc, well, same thing: that's not Fe, that's just what follows naturally fromhaving Fe.

Yes. I'm not trying to become a J, and I don't think I'm capable of thinking like one. I'm trying to emulate J-like behavior.

Anyway, I don't feel like I've done my experiment right. I simply haven't followed my own schedule fully. I'm more willing to structure on some days, while other days feel like they can only be completed at random. I find that this extreme schedule limits my potential rather than increasing it. Might I suggest that there are Ti and Ne dominant days?

 

[preilemus]

well, it doesnt have to be meditation, but just repeating something to yourself over and over can really help, along with trying to believe it as much as possible.

you're more flexible than you think

 

[Enne]

TJ types don't live by schedules. The way they structure their lives so well is due to them having a clear vision of their objectives in all aspects of life. Instead of scheduling your activities, try to consciously think about what you need to do and how you could spend your time better than you already are.

Hmm..that's a good point...maximizing your given set of 'tools'. Sounds like an SJ thing as well.

 

[Beat Mango]

Yes. I'm not trying to become a J, and I don't think I'm capable of thinking like one. I'm trying to emulate J-like behavior.

I've had enough J bosses at work, if I had to go home and have more Jness I think I'd go mad. The people I'm living with at the moment try to impose structure etc onto me, I don't know why you'd will that for yourself unless you're into masochism. But hey, good luck

EDIT: oh yeah and imo, J behaviour without J thoughts will result in tension and therefore stress, that's just my amateur opinion.

 

[Xel]

I'm trying start setting overarching goals for the summers and long breaks. Don't know if I'll actually do them but its nice to feel I am working toward something. The goals for this summer are 1. Read Philosophical Investigations 2. Learn C++ 3. Write at least one complete story. I might try completing number three by writing once a day at a regular hour.

Good luck with trying to be more planned. At least try to keep the chaos structured. Think fractals.

 

[Sugarpop]

I'm trying start setting overarching goals for the summers and long breaks. Don't know if I'll actually do them but its nice to feel I am working toward something. The goals for this summer are 1. Read Philosophical Investigations 2. Learn C++ 3. Write at least one complete story. I might try completing number three by writing once a day at a regular hour.

Good luck with trying to be more planned. At least try to keep the chaos structured. Think fractals.

I'm planning something similar. I will spend a set minimum time every day trying to learn something new. The problem is that I don't know how to limit my goals. There are three or four natural languages I want to learn, a seemingly endless amount of books I'd like to read and an increasing amount of interesting skills I'd like to have. It seems you are more likely to achieve anything with your three relatively simple goals.

 

[walfin]

I'm not sure about this write-your-goals-on-a-sheet-of-paper thing. For starters, I've never really faced the problem of not knowing "what I want in life" that a lot of people I know seem to have. The problem for me was always what to do at a given moment in time. Details. Drat them .

It's pretty hard for an INTP to stick to a schedule. Perhaps it is better to accept that that's just the way you are, and just DO SOMETHING, anything, as long as it goes some way to getting you closer to your mid - long term objectives.

 

[Beat Mango]

Ok I've decided to work on my Te by planning holidays, social events and trips more. Usually when a birthday comes around, or a long weekend, my instinct is just to ignore it as kind of irrelevant and I don't partake in what most people typically do, which is go away on a trip or do something special. Even my formal at high school, I didn't go because I saw it as kind of pointless (after all, I see all these people every day at school already, right?). But these rituals are important for society so I want to start making more effort. I went to my graduation recently and thought it would suck severely, but once I was there I actually really enjoyed it and got a lot out of it.

 

[Sugarpop]

The week I'd set off for the experiment is over. I can't say I completed the experiment to the extent that I had wanted, since various unexpected events intervened. I suppose I could have been more rigid, and likely I will try again with more determination during my holiday.

Some of the habits I had during my week were quite sensible, and I will try to perpetuate them. Having a set bedtime is an advantage considering my average 5 hours of sleep a night during weekdays, and getting up at a specific time every day will be a great help on my catching-the-bus-project. If I want to exercise, exercising will make it so. Writing things on my sheet helps me remembering and focusing.

At the beginning of the week, I felt the need for a drastic change, but in the future I will introduce reform at a lower rate. There were too many parameters.