Morality in the problem solving of INTPs- are you an evil genius?

[Amagi82]

So, the other day, my cousin, my fiancee, and I were having a discussion about the negative influence of organized religion in the world, and we all agreed that the elimination of organized religion would be profoundly beneficial. But how should we go about it? My cousin immediately starts in about killing people, which I reject, and then immediately, off the cuff, blurt out "We could add a chemical to the ink used in the printing of Bibles that renders people sterile after exposure."

The other two stop, look at me, their eyes widen, and they both quickly agree that what I just came up with is utterly brilliant, utterly evil, and so very me. Apparently I have a reputation for coming up with amazing evil genius plans, which I'm not sure is a compliment or not... Anyway, my fiancee, the scientist, immediately begins researching appropriate chemicals while we debate the best way of getting the chemical into the ink supply for this purpose.

Is this a common INTP trait, where you avoid direct confrontation while surreptitiously planning Machiavellian solutions to world problems?

 

[Black Rose]

the path to hell is laden with good intentions. or not so good.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

"We could add a chemical to the ink used in the printing of Bibles that renders people sterile after exposure."

Given the number of religious Christians who actually read the Bible, your plan would fail miserably...

 

[psion]

the path to hell is laden with good intentions. or not so good.

Only the best in my case.

I know I do this quite a bit. The planning goes on for a while, hours if I have someone else contributing to the plot. Unfortunately nothing ever comes to fruition.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

you avoid direct confrontation while surreptitiously planning Machiavellian solutions to world problems?

No.

Not only am I not evil, I'm not a genius. I just know a lot.

 

[Melkor]

Given the number of religious Christians who actually read the Bible, your plan would fail miserably...

Hahahah, my thoughts exactly. Not to mention the existence of a chemical that can sterilise people with such minimal contact in such small doses being dubious.

Seems like your company is easily impressed.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Not to mention the existence of a chemical that can sterilise people with such minimal contact in such small doses being dubious.

I would say the chemical (endocrine disruptor/teratogen) likely exists:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20299547

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7015501

 

[Jennywocky]

So, the other day, my cousin, my fiancee, and I were having a discussion about the negative influence of organized religion in the world, and we all agreed that the elimination of organized religion would be profoundly beneficial. But how should we go about it? My cousin immediately starts in about killing people, which I reject, and then immediately, off the cuff, blurt out "We could add a chemical to the ink used in the printing of Bibles that renders people sterile after exposure."

That made me laugh.

"Genius! Sheer, unadulterated genius!"

Is this a common INTP trait, where you avoid direct confrontation while surreptitiously planning Machiavellian solutions to world problems?

Typically, we don't like direct conflict where it's just a matter of tactical positioning or brute force; strategic thinking would rather stay detached and control the engagement. What better way than not even letting the other person know the engagement has begun?

Given the number of religious Christians who actually read the Bible, your plan would fail miserably...

Hmmm. We'll have to also inundate the toilet paper rolls and potluck dinner utensils at the church. Thank you for the suggestion.

 

[Amagi82]

Typically, we don't like direct conflict where it's just a matter of tactical positioning or brute force; strategic thinking would rather stay detached and control the engagement. What better way than not even letting the other person know the engagement has begun?

Haha, exactly. Dooo dee dooooo *whistles innocently*

 

[Amagi82]

the path to hell is laden with good intentions. or not so good.

It's highly unlikely hell exists, so I think we're in the clear!

Given the number of religious Christians who actually read the Bible, your plan would fail miserably...

It would have to be potent enough to affect them as they sing those horrible hymns in church.

 

[MissQuote]

It's highly unlikely hell exists, so I think we're in the clear!



It would have to be potent enough to affect them as they sing those horrible hymns in church.

Lets put it in the hymnals instead.

Lots of rational people read the bible for reasons that have nothing to do with being a part of a religion. Only the absurd people bother with those creepy song books.

 

[MissQuote]

I was at a memorial service recently and I swear they sang this song, in tones as though they all wanted to go sex god up, it was the creepiest thing ever.

Spoiler

He is jealous for me,
Loves like a hurricane, I am a tree,
Bending beneath the weight of his wind and mercy.
When all of a sudden,
I am unaware of these afflictions eclipsed by glory,
And I realise just how beautiful You are,
And how great Your affections are for me.

And oh, how He loves us so,
Oh how He loves us,
How He loves us all

Yeah, He loves us,
Whoa! how He loves us,
Whoa! how He loves us,
Whoa! how He loves.
Yeah, He loves us,
Whoa! how He loves us,
Whoa! how He loves us,
Whoa! how He loves.

We are His portion and He is our prize,
Drawn to redemption by the grace in His eyes,
If grace is an ocean, we're all sinking.
So Heaven meets earth like a big sloppy kiss,
And my heart turns violently inside of my chest,
I don't have time to maintain these regrets,
When I think about, the way...

He loves us,
Whoa! how He loves us,
Whoa! how He loves us,
Oh how He loves.
Yeah, He loves us,
Whoa! how He loves us,
Whoa! how He loves us,
Whoa! how He loves.

Whoa! how He loves us.
Whoa! how He loves us.
Whoa! how He loves.
Yeah, He loves us,
Whoa! how He loves us,
Whoa! how He loves us,
Whoa! how He loves.

 

[EditorOne]

"We could add a chemical to the ink used in the printing of Bibles that renders people sterile after exposure."

Kind of passive-aggressive and with a strong sense of misplaced irony. The Bible is, after all, a book, with words and ideas, and for the people you're trying to target, those are all on their "list of things to serious avoid." But I like the way you think.

 

[Moocow]

I've been considering reading through the bible myself just to stock up on good ammunition against Christianity, but good job, you've sterilized me for it!

 

[Vrecknidj]

Is this a common INTP trait, where you avoid direct confrontation while surreptitiously planning Machiavellian solutions to world problems?

I don't know whether it's a common INTP trait (as I haven't interviewed enough of the tens of millions of them to know). And, it's not a trait that I in particular have.

However, I found your solution amusing.

That said, I have no particular beef with Christians generally. It's the proselytizing zealots and the lunatics and the insane ones who call themselves Christians I have a problem with.

For that matter, I would put myself in the camp of those who have read the Bible (well, I have read several of them, there is no one fixed thing called "The Bible" that so many people seem to refer to), and find Jesus to have been a pretty remarkable leader and person worthy of admiration and mimicry. But, I also think a great many Americans, especially quite a few who have a public persona, utterly disgraces themselves and the religion by professing to believe the most absurd bastardizations of what is actually recommended in the saner parts of the New Testament.

But, I'm definitely not a follower and do not attend a weekly service at some place of worship. Not my style.

Dave

 

[EditorOne]

"Is this a common INTP trait, where you avoid direct confrontation while surreptitiously planning Machiavellian solutions to world problems?"


Arranging things so people are brought down by their own shortcomings or objectionable tendencies is a tidy solution.

It has the advantage, also, of being the unseen hand of fate rather than you personally trying to bring about change in a person who very likely doesn't want to change. Sure, "dead" is a bit drastic as changes go, so let's set that poisoned- word-of-god thread-starter aside. But the principle works: People who come to their own conclusions usually stick to them, people who have conclusions forced upon them often do not. If you have to nudge them along with some behind the scenes sound effects or whatever, it's still better than standing there with the philosophical equivalent of a hammer and confronting someone over beliefs.

 

[MissQuote]

Better, in what sense?

If they are having a go at you with their own 'philosophical hammer' it is likely, more often than not, a large and crude one.

I don't mean to ask "better in what sense?" as a disagreement, just an inquiry.

I suppose I can answer my own question with a consideration of motives involving the furtherance or the ending of the conversation being had with said person. There is amusement to be had in both planting subtle seeds of doubt in another as well as in beating right back over the head to irritate them. The difference would come in whether you actually cared about the ideas they walked away with, actually cared about them in any way. Or if you knew you were actually going to have to continue to deal with them on a regular basis, whether you cared about them or not.

 

[Cognisant]

Every day I directly socially engineer the world around me to be a little more godless, if I'm not joking about imaginary friends I'm making a catholic feel uncomfortable about her religion around her gay friends

My goal is to create a world in which people are ashamed of religion, and within my sphere of influence I feel I've been quite successful.

 

[Meer]

Ugh, the angst towards Christianity is kind of gross. Not really the main topic, but whatever. Even if organized religion fades away, the ignorance and stupidity that makes it malevolent will continue on, it will just be harder to label.

Plus, some hymns are actually pretty good.

 

[MissQuote]

The angst towards agnosticism and/or atheism in the general society is kind of gross and disheartening too. People don't try to understand it, just fear it and assume it is an evil uneducated immoral faithless point of view.

Losing my faith was one of the most painful and downright scary experiences I have ever had. But out of it I have gained so much wonder and knowledge of the universe. A new deeper faith than anything I knew before. And an understanding of the concept of morality from a point of view that is so much more selfless than anything I ever new or could even begin to comprehend before losing my faith that I am just in awe of how much I never knew at one point, and how much more there is to contemplate still.

I like this hymn a lot.

Spoiler

This is my Father's world,
and to my listening ears
all nature sings, and round me rings
the music of the spheres.
This is my Father's world:
I rest me in the thought
of rocks and trees, of skies and seas;
his hand the wonders wrought.

2. This is my Father's world,
the birds their carols raise,
the morning light, the lily white,
declare their maker's praise.
This is my Father's world:
he shines in all that's fair;
in the rustling grass I hear him pass;
he speaks to me everywhere.

3. This is my Father's world.
O let me ne'er forget
that though the wrong seems oft so strong,
God is the ruler yet.
This is my Father's world:
why should my heart be sad?
The Lord is King; let the heavens ring!
God reigns; let the earth be glad!

 

[Amagi82]

Every day I directly socially engineer the world around me to be a little more godless, if I'm not joking about imaginary friends I'm making a catholic feel uncomfortable about her religion around her gay friends

My goal is to create a world in which people are ashamed of religion, and within my sphere of influence I feel I've been quite successful.

We need more people like you.