Male dominance ritual on the forum

[Grayman]

Anyone notice the constant clash of ego battles that is more common of the male? I think people are more threatened by Sinny because she is a female and that puts the male ego at a greater risk.

What is the pecking order of this forum?

 

[The Gopher]

The pecking order of this forum is Fukyo, Jennywocky, Yellow/Cheese, Love of reason, Kuu, Cog, Adaire, Minuend and RB somewhere near the bottom.

 

[Absurdity]

I really doubt this thread is going to go anywhere productive, and not sure if calling out Sinny in the OP is very wise.

Regardless, I don't think anyone is "threatened" by Sinny. Concerned or annoyed by their assessment of the quality of her contributions might be a more accurate way of looking at it. I think the admins have had an ongoing dialogue with her about this though, so public speculation wouldn't be very constructive.

I think the fact that there are just likely more dudes on this forum is the cause. I can think of several cases of M v F ego battles in the past, but I am too polite to name names.

 

[Hadoblado]

I don't think that's it Gray.

Ima lock the thread unless I get word from Sinny that its okay.

 

[EditorOne]

Just as a footnote, I don't know for sure the gender of 80 percent of the posters on this forum, just as I don't know ages, most locations, etc. Am I alone in lacking curiosity about that crap? To me one of the attractions here is just seeing the flow of ideas and dialog all by themselves, without gender or age value shadowing or coloring it.

 

[cheese]

^Yeah, that's an attraction for me too. Just seeing thoughts flow without prior knowledge of their meatspace source.

(It's also nice when you *do* know people though. What you get from any one post becomes much greater in a way.)

 

[TBerg]

Are we participating in the disembodiment of knowledge?

But, more to the point at hand, I can name at least a couple women on this form I hold in high regard. I won't be so crass as to name names, though. I view it as a personal imperative to judge people individually.

I also grew up learning feminine styles of manipulation, so I don't think I am even capable of an actual bro-down.

 

[Fukyo]

Anyone notice the constant clash of ego battles that is more common of the male? I think people are more threatened by Sinny because she is a female and that puts the male ego at a greater risk.

No, that's not it. People are annoyed because she's acting like her opinions are self evident truths. Although yeah, proving their are right is an ego thing for some people, but it doesn't have to do with gender.

 

[Jennywocky]

^^ agree with that and Absurdity's line on it.

^Yeah, that's an attraction for me too. Just seeing thoughts flow without prior knowledge of their meatspace source.

(It's also nice when you *do* know people though. What you get from any one post becomes much greater in a way.)

yeah, i have both things going.

I like the idea of just the ideas themselves being able to make a splash.

However, I realized a while back that since my real-life connections seem pretty inadequate, on some level I like having a connection and/or understanding with people I talk to. Plus, I get a better idea of how to parse their comments accurately, when they don't explain things in detail. Context, context, context.

The pecking order of this forum is Fukyo, Jennywocky, Yellow/Cheese, Love of reason, Kuu, Cog, Adaire, Minuend and RB somewhere near the bottom.

RB always likes being on the bottom; he's lazy.

 

[Sly-fy]

I don`t even know who`s male and who`s female, and in the rare cases when I do know I care even less, because it`s all about discussing facts and coming to reasonable conclusions at least to me.

 

[Grayman]

No, that's not it. People are annoyed because she's acting like her opinions are self evident truths.

That doesn't make sense to me.

1) The reaction is greater than past reactions towards individuals who are perceived to be spouting self evident truths.
2) her conspiracy theories have initially been supported by several links and references. The fact that people don't regard her sources as creditable does not mean she hasn't put thought into her opinions.
3) How is "not liking the quality of someones post" more incriminating than the character attacks, lack of empathy, and callousness of other users? How is it incriminating at all?

 

[Hadoblado]

She's asking for it, walking around with *that* avatar. :P

I won't deny the existence of a gender politic in the forum. But I don't think it has anything to do with what's going on here.

The difficulties people have with Sinny are not gender related. It may have an influence on the way people approach her, but to point the finger at gender while not acknowledging the other issues is either manipulative or oblivious.

Sinny's views are so removed from everyone else's that she's always going to be set apart from the herd. This is fine, we've got a lot of strange and wonderful people here. I think the crux of the issue is that Sinny presents herself as very open minded in a very closed way. She's confident in her beliefs, or appears to be, but is unwilling to demonstrate the reason for her confidence, often becoming too tired or bored or spiteful to flesh out her reasoning. She insists others are wrong but doesn't support her assertion adequately, and her approach is escalatory.

Edit: Or offers unsubstantial evidence (updated for Grayman). If I offer a banana in evidence to my assertion that the world is round, have I really demonstrated my point?

It's not all her. The forum does have a pack mentality, and since the forum is riddled with evidence of strung out conflicts with Sinny, people know it's okay to attack her. People resort to aggression or condescension quicker with Sinny than they do others (just like they do with newer more controversial members). The shared belief is that she doesn't Ti, and it's easy to lap up INTPoints by being all cold and rational at someone bound to make drama. People bring grief from other threads, hair-triggering the moment she's imperfect.

 

[Sly-fy]

This is like how some forum users who I won`t name are claiming that whites who support Trump (and those who are conservative) are in such a way because of deep-rooted racism. It`s unfounded assumptions that overgeneralize and lead to dead-ends in conversations, because it`s all or nothing for those who make such allegations (and their dismissal due to a lack of evidence is unacceptable to them.)

By that same token, I would call out similar attempts to argue that misogyny is the reason for disagreements on issues to be fallacious and unsubstantiated accusations, which are not worthy of a logical discussion since they`re both based on false premises.

 

[Grayman]

If a banana can prove there is a god, I am sure it can prove that the earth is round.

https://youtu.be/Y4yBvvGi_2A

 

[Tannhauser]

Out of curiosity – has anyone ever provided good arguments against Sinny's theories? (no, asking for more proof is not a good argument)

 

[Rook]

If a banana can prove there is a god, I am sure it can prove that the earth is round.

I always pondered how this theory factored in the other great apes, certainly that would mean that bonobos and orangutans must be counted among god's chosen.

Would that make Darwin a prophet or a saint?

 

[Grayman]

By that same token, I would call out similar attempts to argue that masochism is the reason for disagreements on issues to be fallacious and unsubstantiated accusations, which are not worthy of a logical discussion since they`re both based on false premises.

I understand your position. My argument is not that all arguments are sourced from dominating behaviors but that such behaviors elevate existing disagreements. Nor do I argue that only men practice dominating behavior. However, it is a fact that men are more prone to such behavior because of their biology.

 

[Grayman]

I always pondered how this theory factored in the other great apes, certainly that would mean that bonobos and orangutans must be counted among god's chosen.

They didn't eat of the fruit of knowledge and so they are still in the garden of Eden and they are also less intelligent than a human being.

 

[Sly-fy]

They didn't eat of the fruit of knowledge and so they are still in the garden of Eden and they are also less intelligent than a human being.

Ooooh, that`s a good one! But does that mean that they go to heaven then because they`re without sin, since they resisted the urge? I know that all serious Christians claim that (non-human) animals don`t go to heaven, so what would be the catch if they did eat from the tree? Seems like they`d have nothing to lose!

 

[redbaron]

WoW Aw3$om3 7h3oRie$$sSSs

She gets shit reactions because her posts are shit. Sinny's post quality sits somewhere around Chad level.

 

[Grayman]

Ooooh, that`s a good one! But does that mean that they go to heaven then because they`re without sin, since they resisted the urge? I know that all serious Christians claim that (non-human) animals don`t go to heaven, so what would be the catch if they did eat from the tree? Seems like they`d have nothing to lose!

My argument would indicate that they were the original 'humans' and therefore not animals. They are made in the true image of god and we are the corruption of that image.

 

[TBerg]

Sinny never provided a lot of strong argument outside her own thread. I am not interested enough in pursuing subjects that do not involve our control. I prefer to emphasize what we actually can control, which involves personal virtue and pushing of cultural narratives. Cultural narratives are just the form of mass control over which we have the most impact in dispelling. I mean, if we can show narratives not to be true, then it doesn't matter if we can accuse people of pushing it behind the scenes or not.

Can I suggest the countervailing possibility of the OP being an example of white-knighting?

 

[Sly-fy]

My argument would indicate that they were the original 'humans' and therefore not animals. They are made in the true image of god and we are the corruption of that image.

But Jesus was a man...

None the less, an interesting spin on things you certainly put.

 

[Grayman]

Can I suggest the countervailing possibility of the OP being an example of white-knighting?

Sure. All suggestions are welcome.

Mostly i see this as an issue that will go until the death of sinny. It is already written in the stars. Why prolong it instead of do something different for once?

 

[Hadoblado]

Out of curiosity – has anyone ever provided good arguments against Sinny's theories? (no, asking for more proof is not a good argument)

Good question.

Usually for me it comes down to Occam's. Sinny suggests a complex explanation for a situation that is already explained by mechanisms that are widely accepted and understood. It's not that world leader Bradley Forengall is a human with typical, deplorable human tendencies, it's that he's a lizard alien conspiring to lead humanity to its doom (hypothetical example, she hasn't actually said this to my knowledge). The lizardman hypothesis is not impossible, but it requires the acceptance of additional premises that aren't evidenced. In this case, you need to accept the notion of a race of tyrannical alien reptiles with shapeshifting abilities.

The argument always plays out in the same fashion. Sinny postulates some more complex explanation. It's as if nothing can ever be what it seems. Perception exists to be fooled.

So yeah, I guess for me, asking for evidence is a good enough argument against it. I usually don't have a position I'm trying to convince her of, other than that she doesn't have sufficient evidence to warrant her commitment to a particular belief.

 

[Grayman]

WoW Aw3$om3 7h3oRie$$sSSs

She gets shit reactions because her posts are shit. Sinny's post quality sits somewhere around Chad level.

I went back and read Chad to 'some' degree. It is astounding how upset people on this forum get over spelling, typos, and bad logic.

I figured there must have been something more to it but I guess you guys just take this stuff really, really, seriously.

It's like we are all together writing a very important novel and if someone slacks off and doesn't put in the effort we all get angry at this person and feel he is ruining our very precious book! Or at least this is the picture I get in my head when I try to rationalize this behavior.

There is also the element of 'rudeness' underneath his various statements that is perceived as disrespectful. Almost all the time it was not meant as an attack on the other person's character although it did indirectly insult them.

 

[Pyropyro]

Out of curiosity – has anyone ever provided good arguments against Sinny's theories? (no, asking for more proof is not a good argument)

I remembered working with her on her theories about the Zika virus and microwave weaponry (the latter was better argued by Kuu if I remembered correctly).

So far she's fine with agreeing that we need more data in some of her hypothesis especially since certain technical specs make it hard for her theories to be applied as is.

UPDATE: Hado seems to sum it up better than I did

 

[Black Rose]

I don't even know why the word "ritual" is in the title of this thread.

The interactions between me and Sinny I count as a plus. We share a wavelength.

 

[Hadoblado]

A ritual as in a rite of passage. The implication being that before you ascend the hierarchy you must first have a go at Sinny. You'd know this if you ever achieved the rank of sorceric disciple.

 

[OmoInisa]

Out of curiosity – has anyone ever provided good arguments against Sinny's theories? (no, asking for more proof is not a good argument)

I think you'll find no shortage of arguments against, both in relation to her theories and her projected self-concept. Most are subtle, some others less so.
The whole thing seems to me a strong clash between Ti-Ne and Te-Ni. I see her as an ENTJ gone more than a bit wrong. Conspiracy theory is the typical disease of neurotic Ni. These ideas are shaped into an agenda and forcefully propagated. Her interaction style is also easily recognisable. She appears to largely embody the weaknesses of that archetype and perhaps chooses to see herself as its essential opposite as a defence mechanism.

 

[Puffy]

I think its largely the quantity of posts and threads in honesty. When sinny first joined it was hard to ignore her presence as her 'agenda' was being pushed everywhere in loads of different threads, so what others are highlighting as issues in her posting became magnified, and formed an unshakeable first impression of her. I don't think *everyones* posts are golden in comparison, but generally they're easier to ignore, and not in the limelight.

Da Blob seems closest in precedence: sheer volume coupled with unwavering conviction and a need to share the good news. If he hadn't been so voluminous I doubt anyone would've minded him.

Being fair, I think sinny's improved a lot since when she first joined and toned down a lot. And kudos for sticking out the flack, I'm brittle against opposition. I hope this thread doesn't embitter her.

(The thing that disturbs me about these threads is that secretly I think people enjoy having a scapegoat. The forum over the last few years has been stagnant waters, and sinny's initial threads made an interesting splash, can anyone deny that?)

p.s.

WoW Aw3$om3 7h3oRie$$sSSs

She gets shit reactions because her posts are shit. Sinny's post quality sits somewhere around Chad level.

Can't you see this is kind of a shit post as well (in a different way)? You've told me yourself that sometimes you can't be bothered to substantiate, but if you can't be bothered to substantiate then why bother posting beyond a flame-bait word like shit? If you don't like repeating yourself then just link to a more constructive post you've made.

 

[The Gopher]

Being fair, I think sinny's improved a lot since when she first joined and toned down a lot. And kudos for sticking out the flack, I'm brittle against opposition. I hope this thread doesn't embitter her.

Lets keep talking about her as if she is not here.

Oh I agree she's made great strides of improvement I'll tell Dr. Strange the treatment is working. Seriously though there are some threads she's attacked because "Oh it's Sinny she must be wrong" which is why I mentioned it's about 80/20. It's hard to notice the glimmering light of redemption when you're looking at a pile of consistency.

 

[Puffy]

Lets keep talking about her as if she is not here.

Oh I agree she's made great strides of improvement I'll tell Dr. Strange the treatment is working. Seriously though there are some threads she's attacked because "Oh it's Sinny she must be wrong" which is why I mentioned it's about 80/20. It's hard to notice the glimmering light of redemption when you're looking at a pile of consistency.

If my post especially exhibits assery I'm happy to eject myself. As far as I know her name's in the op subject, she said this thread was allowed and that's why it was re-opened.

 

[TheManBeyond]

funnily i think i would intimidate a lot most of you in person

 

[kora]

Anyone notice the constant clash of ego battles that is more common of the male? I think people are more threatened by Sinny because she is a female and that puts the male ego at a greater risk.

What is the pecking order of this forum?

OH NO a female is talking back at me! My man pride! Quick, I must insult more! Mostly this forum is better than that I'm sure/hope.

 

[kora]

I think its largely the quantity of posts and threads in honesty. When sinny first joined it was hard to ignore her presence as her 'agenda' was being pushed everywhere in loads of different threads, so what others are highlighting as issues in her posting became magnified, and formed an unshakeable first impression of her. I don't think *everyones* posts are golden in comparison, but generally they're easier to ignore, and not in the limelight.

Da Blob seems closest in precedence: sheer volume coupled with unwavering conviction and a need to share the good news. If he hadn't been so voluminous I doubt anyone would've minded him.

Being fair, I think sinny's improved a lot since when she first joined and toned down a lot. And kudos for sticking out the flack, I'm brittle against opposition. I hope this thread doesn't embitter her.

(The thing that disturbs me about these threads is that secretly I think people enjoy having a scapegoat. The forum over the last few years has been stagnant waters, and sinny's initial threads made an interesting splash, can anyone deny that?)

p.s.



Can't you see this is kind of a shit post as well (in a different way)? You've told me yourself that sometimes you can't be bothered to substantiate, but if you can't be bothered to substantiate then why bother posting beyond a flame-bait word like shit? If you don't like repeating yourself then just link to a more constructive post you've made.

Agree with everything mostly. I enjoy her posts and presence on the forum, and honestly, I think people are kind of dickheads (must be the man pride ) a lot of the time here when they answer, I have not seen her ever start insulting someone randomly unless provoked. Some people seem to think being insulting shows integrity and coolness or something, I just find it unpleasant. Although, it's just the Internet so it's not so offensive, and I actually like quite a lot of the people who exhibit this kind of behavior despite it.

 

[Tannhauser]

Good question.

Usually for me it comes down to Occam's. Sinny suggests a complex explanation for a situation that is already explained by mechanisms that are widely accepted and understood. It's not that world leader Bradley Forengall is a human with typical, deplorable human tendencies, it's that he's a lizard alien conspiring to lead humanity to its doom (hypothetical example, she hasn't actually said this to my knowledge). The lizardman hypothesis is not impossible, but it requires the acceptance of additional premises that aren't evidenced. In this case, you need to accept the notion of a race of tyrannical alien reptiles with shapeshifting abilities.

The argument always plays out in the same fashion. Sinny postulates some more complex explanation. It's as if nothing can ever be what it seems. Perception exists to be fooled.

So yeah, I guess for me, asking for evidence is a good enough argument against it. I usually don't have a position I'm trying to convince her of, other than that she doesn't have sufficient evidence to warrant her commitment to a particular belief.

I never really understood Occam's razor. The scenario one often describes is: one has a theory that explains everything and then one has an alternative theory which is the same as the default one, plus some superfluous component. But there was never a good theory which was good only by virtue of being parsimonious, and there was never a theory that explained everything. At some point, a dude came up with the suggestion that invisible microorganisms (now called bacteria) were responsible for most of the deaths in hospitals. This went against the more parsimonious theory that the patients were just sick and shit happens.

Anyway, we are discussing things that all the "annoyed" people should have been discussing with Sinny. But I suspect one gets annoyed with someone's claims if two factors are present: 1) one cares about the truth of the matter, and 2) one doesn't really know why one is right and the other one is wrong.

 

[PaulMaster]

I think its largely the quantity of posts and threads in honesty. When sinny first joined it was hard to ignore her presence as her 'agenda' was being pushed everywhere in loads of different threads, so what others are highlighting as issues in her posting became magnified, and formed an unshakeable first impression of her. I don't think *everyones* posts are golden in comparison, but generally they're easier to ignore, and not in the limelight.

Bullshit, man. Nobody is forced to read anything here - or anywhere for that matter. I skip over threads and posts all the time so I know for a fact it can be done.

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

What even is the point of this thread? You probably think you're helping, grayman, but im sure this thread makes her feel uncomfortable...it's an open invitation for people to witch hunt her and analyse her posts and attitude/presence in detail(reminiscent of what happened by the end of the thread where a newbie was picked on for using her real pic as avatar)

I know she approved of unlocking, but it doesn't look like this thread is going anywhere...and it's just very uncomfortable to read overall

 

[kora]

areminiscent of what happened by the end of the thread where a newbie was picked on for using her real pic as avatar

God yeah that was such a mess, really embarrassing.

I didn't think the forum had a pecking order tbh. I mean, apart form mods kind of sort of.

 

[Rook]

Zerkalo I agree with, this has little point as the issues in question are between Sinny and the mods and that dialogue already exists as far as can be discerned.

Ima lock the thread unless I get word from Sinny that its okay.

Hmmmm....

 

[Haim]

When I see someing which is incorrect my ego must fix it.
You make a rule from one treatment for one woman, you can not make a pattern from single point of data.The pattern is not male ego but the treatment for people that tend to oppose ideas and facts just because they think it makes them critical thinkers while in fact their ideas have many logical faults.For example some political correctness are false, that does not make every oppese idea to it true, the same goes the other way, some racists idea are true.Given two answer question the third answer is always true, which is to hit who ever limited you to two answer.

 

[Puffy]

What even is the point of this thread? You probably think you're helping, grayman, but im sure this thread makes her feel uncomfortable...it's an open invitation for people to witch hunt her and analyse her posts and attitude/presence in detail(reminiscent of what happened by the end of the thread where a newbie was picked on for using her real pic as avatar)

I know she approved of unlocking, but it doesn't look like this thread is going anywhere...and it's just very uncomfortable to read overall

Tbh you're right, apologies to Sinny for being inconsistent as I said the same thing in the other thread.

I think I'm going to take a breather from the forum for a while. I'm not in a good mindstate and it's effecting my posting.

 

[The Gopher]

If my post especially exhibits assery I'm happy to eject myself. As far as I know her name's in the op subject, she said this thread was allowed and that's why it was re-opened.

Oh sorry I added that in as an after thought wasn't intended against you in particular.

 

[kora]

Tbh you're right, apologies to Sinny for being inconsistent as I said the same thing in the other thread.

I think I'm going to take a breather from the forum for a while. I'm not in a good mindstate and it's effecting my posting.

OMG LOOK WHAT YOU GUYS DID TO PUFFY YOU INCONSIDERATE MORONS

This is why we can't have nice things!! Everyone, look, you're cool. Just be cool. we're cool. okay?

 

[OmoInisa]

What even is the point of this thread? You probably think you're helping, grayman, but im sure this thread makes her feel uncomfortable...it's an open invitation for people to witch hunt her and analyse her posts and attitude/presence in detail(reminiscent of what happened by the end of the thread where a newbie was picked on for using her real pic as avatar)

I know she approved of unlocking, but it doesn't look like this thread is going anywhere...and it's just very uncomfortable to read overall

Agreed. My own contribution made me uncomfortable. Any transgression not severe enough to be censured by the mods probably doesn't justify having the person bad-mouthed in this manner.
Let's pick apart Gray man's suggestion of a forum hierarchy instead.

I apologise Sinny.

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

I think I'm going to take a breather from the forum for a while. I'm not in a good mindstate and it's effecting my posting.

Noooooo! !!

OMG LOOK WHAT YOU GUYS DID TO PUFFY YOU INCONSIDERATE MORONS

This is why we can't have nice things!! Everyone, look, you're cool. Just be cool. we're cool. okay?

IM SORRY FOR RUINING EVERYTHING

 

[The Gopher]

Agreed. My own contribution made me uncomfortable. Any transgression not severe enough to be censured by the mods probably doesn't justify having the person bad-mouthed in this manner.
Let's pick apart Gray man's suggestion of a forum hierarchy instead.

I apologise Sinny.

Ahh but that's for the mods to decide! I say we keep escalating until one of us gets banned! I mean if the mods are the ultimate deciders in what transgressions get censured they they can also decide what level of bad-mouthing is socially acceptable. You wouldn't want to leave that up to society horrible things could happen.

Noooooo! !!


IM SORRY FOR RUINING EVERYTHING

We INFPf now boys.

 

[kora]

I'M SORRY TOO SINNY COME BACK PLEASE

Okay no more caps from me for today I'm getting hoarse.

 

[OmoInisa]

We INFPf now boys.

Not quite. But we're closer to it than INTJf.