Introverted ENTP

[brain enclosed in flesh]

Think I am one. Is that possible?

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

what, you have higher Ne than Ti?

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

generally. They go neck and neck.

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

so why do you think you are ENTP?

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

I wonder about you as well, seducer, after your mooning activity. are you an 'I' because you make an 'ass' of yourself?

 

[Red Mage]

I feel like we've had this conversation before. A lot of us here have tested higher Ne than Ti, even though we always get INTP as a result. Honestly, I wouldn't doubt it if we're ENTP with shyness or social anxiety that makes us more introverted. But I also wouldn't doubt that we're INTPs that for some reason developed Ne more than Ti. Or maybe we just overvalue our Ne's in these tests.

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

Ne seems to be me. Ti is like my father lording over me telling me it's wrong to be so wild and all over the place.

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

yes, I know red mage. I just didn't feel like going back to that thread. I guess I'm having a hard time grasping this 'extraverted' bit. It seems to me you can have a dominant 'e' function and still be introverted.

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

But much of me thinks.... who gives a shit?

 

[Anthile]

I have often problems with the E/I axis. People usually distinguish it just by "has friends/has no friends". I read that the more intelligent one person is the less friends he has since humans prefer relationships that match their niveau.
So if you are an E and smart you can end up without friends because you are surrounded by "morons".
Obviously this is more a problem in smaller towns than in metropols.
The other thing is that no person is never really 100% E or I, it only shows a preference.

You should read the ENTP, INTP, E and I descriptions carefully.

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

brain enclosed in flesh: i didn't mean offence! or belittled you. i was just curious


hell, i don't know what i am

i do consider my Ne to be slightly stronger than my Ti (i think)

get Decaf!

i think i have higher Fe than Si aswell....spooky

but i am definately Introverted, i don't need people.

dammit, i may now be XNXP, but probably not ENFP (although i act ENXP in social situations)

 

[mathy]

I feel your pain (well, confusion).

New test results in using this test. Don't know which I trust more. (The previous results came from this test.)

Ne - 45.4 (excellent)
Ti - 37.3 (excellent)
Ni - 34 (good)
Fi - 33.1 (good)
Te - 24.9 (avg)
Si - 22.9 (limited)
Se - 22 (limited)
Fe - 21 (limited)

By focusing on the strongest configuration of cognitive processes, your pattern of responses most closely matches individuals of this type: INTP.

If these cognitive processes don't fit well then consider these types: ENTP, or INFP.

...

Now I'm more confused... Not sure how it determined INTP from that.

I still don't consider myself completely introverted. Hmm. I think I'm going with XNXP.

Some days I feel more extroverted than others. Lately I've been a bit more I leaning, but that partly is because of the weather, I think (it's been raining for the last 2 weeks straight it seems...). I think some of us don't fit in to any of the categories very well. I relate somewhat to INTP, ENTP, INFP, and sometimes INFJ. You may be like me in that your processes are a bit more evenly distributed, thereby adding to your confusion.

You may talk to Chocolate about it. She's an ENTP, but is more introverted than ENTP's are supposed to be.

It has been suggested on this forum that the more introverted processes you use, the more introverted you are. For instance, my top 4 are: Ne Ti Ni Fi, so it calls me an introvert. This is probably true, but sometimes I do feel pretty extroverted (probably when I'm exercising my Ne). Have you taken one of the cognitive processes tests?

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

I wasn't even remotely offended, soth- sorry if I offended you by making you think I was offended!

well, what it is... I'm considered bipolar. How much of this, I wonder, is just being dominant Ne? And the 'I' part of the NTP is a result of being embarrassed/ashamed of all of the f-ing up I've done in my life, not to mention, how much of the 'I' is medication toning down the 'Ne'?

(Oh ha ha- I was interrupted in writing this by my psych calling me because I had an appt ten minutes ago that I totally spaced.... woops.)

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

Mathy- me: Ne Ti Fi Si Fe

Yeah, Chocolate! Help me!

 

[QSR]

i guess I don't need to suggest counseling in that case....

 

[mathy]

Ah, those tests probably rank you as introverted because 3 of the top 4 processes are introverted. Is it accurate? Do you feel more E or I?

I think I might be more I, but I know I'm not as introverted as most introverts, and I also I know I'm not as extroverted as most extroverts. I do enjoy being around people (even groups of people), even if I don't always talk all the time. I enjoy listening, and the hustle and bustle of them being there. So... meh, I don't know. I decided to try not to think about it too hard.

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

if i were E and F i would feel extremely weak and vulnerable, if i were S i would consider suicide! i aint J though...

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

This is me as a parent:

http://www.entp.org/discuss2/showpost.php?p=33259&postcount=14

Makes me think I'm an ENTP. Although I am primarily introverted (95%), I think the dominant Ne might weigh more heavily in describing my personality.

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

well, that sounds like me. only i aint female or old enough to have children...

brain enclosed....what do you mean you have doubts about me?

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

I don't have doubts about you, I could just really relate to your am I losing my mind thread. It reeked of Ne, that's all- so I meant doubts about the INTP, like maybe you and I were ENTPs. Pure conjecture, of course.

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

Lurked on the entp.org site for a moment. Saw the phrase 'business model' and came scurrying back. Ugh.

 

[chocolate]

Hi brain. I have wondered whether I am an introverted ENTP (or an extraverted INTP) as well! `Business model' also makes me feel icky lol.

I really feel I am in between, or a mix of both. I barely tip the scales towards E, but that little bit makes me able to appear very social (when I want to), and overall prefer being with people than alone (although I am happy to be in the presence of someone, I don't need to be talking to them). After a lot of social interaction involving talking though, I do tend to feel strained, unless it is with someone that I can really relate to.

I always feel a bit too serious compared to the other ENTPs I know to be a typical one, but although my Ti is my strongest function, I feel a bit too random or unstructured in thought to consider myself close to being an INTP. I also tend to over-Ne everything. My thoughts go in all directions, then I analyze them to death is how I operate.

I am happy to defy categorisation though and just be a laughing cow!

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

Chocolate comes to the rescue!

I feel a bit too random or unstructured in thought to consider myself close to being an INTP. I also tend to over-Ne everything. My thoughts go in all directions, then I analyze them to death is how I operate.

Yeah. That is it, exactly. And if I compare myself to a stereotypical ENTP, I would say I am exceedingly staid, logical, reserved. But next to a stereotypical INTP, I am an all over the place, saying whatever the hell comes to mind, impulsive chatterbox.

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

i kind of rant a lot...extrovert?

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

Well, that's what I mean. I tend to divulge way too much or talk too much sometimes, like I get in this zone and I don't know how to filter or shut up. And then afterwards I feel like a jackass. Sometimes I don't do this, but often I do. I think it keeps me from talking a lot of the time.

 

[snowqueen]

Yeah. That is it, exactly. And if I compare myself to a stereotypical ENTP, I would say I am exceedingly staid, logical, reserved. But next to a stereotypical INTP, I am an all over the place, saying whatever the hell comes to mind, impulsive chatterbox.

Well, that's what I mean. I tend to divulge way too much or talk too much sometimes, like I get in this zone and I don't know how to filter or shut up. And then afterwards I feel like a jackass. Sometimes I don't do this, but often I do. I think it keeps me from talking a lot of the time.

Both of these describe me very well. Ages ago I did an MBTI test at work and came out as ENTP and thought it was quite like me but I couldn't keep it up - I get excited about ideas and do the classic ENTP thing - when I meet people with good ideas I want to put them in contact with other people who could help them etc. and I thought I might be quite entrepreneurial for a while but lost momentum easily. Then I decided it was all crap and forgot about it.

I can be drawn out of myself quite easily and give the appearance of being extrovert, but I actually don't know how to do it so what happens is that I talk as freely as I think (which fits in with the inability to filter or shut up) and then I feel bad afterwards. Then when I read the INTP profile I thought 'now that is much more like me' so I'm thinking that I'm simply a garrulous INTP. I think the crux of the matter is the aspect of being exhausted by human contact as opposed to energised. I enjoy the discussion but then long to crawl back inside myself and feel sort of 'dirty' for having exposed myself too much.

 

[echoplex]

I often feel this way myself. Sometimes I think I'm just a "failed" extrovert. I feel like I'm much happier when I'm letting my Ne run wild around people. I almost view Ti as a bit of a necessary evil for me. I need it to feel that things make sense but I don't really enjoy it at all. Your description of Ti as a parental figure is spot-on for me.

Of course, my other extroverted functions are not very well developed, so perhaps what we are experiencing is our frustration at our weaknesses with Te, Se, and Fe. Or perhaps we "become" introverts in order to hide our weak Fe in a society where such a weakness is often not tolerated.

This is why typology isn't perfect. Because while INTP is the type that best describes me, INTJ, INFP, and even ENFP can often describe me pretty well too.

 

[Ermine]

^ Me too. Ti is just an instinct that I'm almost trying to get rid of in most aspects. Over analysis has caused me a lot of unnecessary pain, so it's often a necessary evil. I'm much more fulfilled when I'm having an Ne moment, and I don't consider introspection and inner analysis the most fun or fulfilling thing to do. I think you might be right about being an "introvert" just due to Fe deficiencies, though I don't know if this is often the case.

However, our different functions develop at different life stages. I've read that the secondary function, in our case Ne, particularly flourishes during the late teens and 20s, which is the probably the average age of the members here. There's also a particularly high number of members with an Ne as strong as or surpassing their Ti. I don't think it's a coincidence.

 

[bdubs]

To quote myself from another thread: (I can do that right?)

When I do not know someone well or consider them an aquantaince I tend to edit my thoughts much more than I would among friends. The gulf placed between myself and others is one of self defence. The likelyhood of being rejected as strange by those who do not think similarly to myself seems to great to open up immediately.

I think the editting of my thoughts would be closer to the realm of Ti while what I consider to be my more "fun" side that I have a fear of showing people is my Ne in this case. Is this innaccurate?

 

[Solfege]

I think the editting of my thoughts would be closer to the realm of Ti while what I consider to be my more "fun" side that I have a fear of showing people is my Ne in this case. Is this innaccurate?

I do the same thing. Even though Ne is fun, my Ti wants to beat it up for not making sense and therefore being unacceptable, especially around people I don't know well.

Edit: Actually, nowadays I find myself getting more frequently into the "can't shut up" Ne-zone that others have mentioned, and then I can actually act extraverted. The beating up usually comes after, when I berate myself for having acted like an airhead. But it doesn't mean that my Ne is dominant over my Ti, since the latter still ends up being in control and having the last say in most things.

 

[Toad]

What is the difference between Ne and Ni? I mean I really don't completely understand how it effects whether I'm E or I. I feel like I am an i in that I enjoy being by myself. But I also really enjoy being around friends. If I'm by myself too much I get depress, but if I'm around my friends or people too much, I get really tired.

 

[snowqueen]

If I'm by myself too much I get depress, but if I'm around my friends or people too much, I get really tired.

I guess it's a matter of finding that balance! I am exactly the same. What I do if I find myself alone and sinking into that misery state I go out into the city so I can be around people but don't have to interact with them. I like to people watch in a cafe or something. It was better when I lived in London but even the town I live near is good enough. The other thing I do is go out and watch birds - gets me out and connecting with beings outside myself but not beings I have to talk to lol.

 

[QSR]

What is the difference between Ne and Ni? I mean I really don't completely understand how it effects whether I'm E or I. I feel like I am an i in that I enjoy being by myself. But I also really enjoy being around friends. If I'm by myself too much I get depress, but if I'm around my friends or people too much, I get really tired.

This thread is going down the road of MBTI theory.

 

[del]

What is the difference between Ne and Ni?

Ne is more about connecting dots, Ni is more about getting new information by shifting your entire perspective.

So Ne is more like the "connective" function that unconsciously strings together patterns for you from raw data -- say how a doctor might suddenly realize several seemingly unrelated symptoms in his patient are really connected to a single disease.

Ni is harder to define but I think of it like an "interpretive" function: for instance to interpret the symbolism of a story or mythology you must look at it from multiple points of view to derive any meaning. Unlike Ne, which accepts raw data as simply given, Ni assumes that there is not any inherent meaning in the data unless you take a specific point of view.

Oh, and I've sort of struggled with the ENTP vs INTP thing too. My advice to those of you who are in the same position is to go back and read Jung, since the definitions of introversion and extroversion are rather different than their technical definitions.

Two key points that helped me:

1) extroversion is the orientation to the OUTISIDE world, which may or may not include the people, depending on the person's interests -- translation: E's tend to be more aggressive "doers", even if by attempting to do everything they effectively do nothing.

2) all appearances aside, extroverts actually have weaker egos (there's a psychobabble justification, but I'll leave that out), which is supposedly what underlies point 1).

Cheers

 

[Beat Mango]

Two key points that helped me:

1) extroversion is the orientation to the OUTISIDE world, which may or may not include the people, depending on the person's interests -- translation: E's tend to be more aggressive "doers", even if by attempting to do everything they effectively do nothing.

2) all appearances aside, extroverts actually have weaker egos (there's a psychobabble justification, but I'll leave that out), which is supposedly what underlies point 1).

Cheers

I'm interested

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

However, our different functions develop at different life stages. I've read that the secondary function, in our case Ne, particularly flourishes during the late teens and 20s, which is the probably the average age of the members here. There's also a particularly high number of members with an Ne as strong as or surpassing their Ti. I don't think it's a coincidence.

What's supposed to develop in the 30s? I think that might be part of my issue. Maybe my Ti is growing and my Ne is declining and it kind of saddens me, like I had this time of unbridled creativity and I didn't do anything with it. I'm shriveling into this brick of dullness that analyses crap to death instead of creating something unique.

Snow Queen, I think we might be twins, by the way.

I am not an extrovert, that's the thing. I am so so so not an extrovert. But I think I'm starting to realize that I need to engage in intellectual/ creative stuff with other people, that I don't have enough of that in my life and it's stifling me somewhat.

It could also be this: Whoever said the thing about extraversion just meaning engaging with the outside world, not necessarily people, I think that's more how it is with my Ne. And I think part of my current quandary is that I am feeling somewhat smothered. I have lived in the same 100,000 person town for fifteen years. I've been everywhere, discovered everything I can here. It bores the living shit out of me so I pretty much hide out in my house, where before I used to go on hikes, wander and discover. There's nothing to discover anymore. Blah.

I used to visit my sister in NYC a lot and loved it because there's so much to take in, but then I'd return to dullville and get down about how blah it is so I stopped going. In other words, I think I'm starving my Ne to death so I don't have to deal with its dissatisfaction.

 

[snowqueen]

What's supposed to develop in the 30s? I think that might be part of my issue. Maybe my Ti is growing and my Ne is declining and it kind of saddens me, like I had this time of unbridled creativity and I didn't do anything with it. I'm shriveling into this brick of dullness that analyses crap to death instead of creating something unique.

Snow Queen, I think we might be twins, by the way.

I think you may be right (I've thought we're very similar from the first time you posted actually). That paragraph just struck such a strong chord with me because that's exactly what I feel happened to me - actually it coincided with having children in my late 30s because all of a sudden I had to be responsible and grown up and I think that is important - I wanted to be a better parent than my mother - but I feel sad for the loss of creativity and freedom. However I have managed to do something very creative at work by analysing things to death which could become quite revolutionary so in some ways I've put my Ne to work with my Ti. Now my children are older I also have more time to do creative things in leisure too and also my children are highly tolerant of my odder behaviour so I tend to reveal more and more of it to them which makes me feel more liberated.

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

Now my children are older I also have more time to do creative things in leisure too and also my children are highly tolerant of my odder behaviour so I tend to reveal more and more of it to them which makes me feel more liberated.

yes, and my children have quite a bit in common with me, personality wise- I'm seeing it more as they get older- so we are compatriots of sorts. We are all perceivers, attempting to erase the bit of J which still remains in my husband. J is not tolerated in our household!

 

[mathy]

All this talk about feeling drained around people makes me think I may be and introverted E after all (because I don't really, unless it's every day/night). And I don't think I've ever felt bad about babbling on and on to people. I'm starting to see this (feeling badly about babbling/being around people too much) as an introverted trait. Hmm. Maybe I'm a thoughtful extrovert?

Also, as del mentioned, I tend to be action oriented. I may be thinking to myself all the while, but I like to be actively doing something (gardening, walking the dogs, working with my hands, working in the darkroom, framing, decorating, building things). I don't really understand how being action oriented would affect whether you're I or E. Some of my most introspective moments occur when I'm actively working on something in the world. Maybe I'm missing something?

Also, I don't hate that I analyze things like crazy. I don't feel that it's a hindrance, it's a goal of mine to be logical and analytical (even when I'm making art, it follows a very logical, albeit very intuitive, path, although I also use my high Fi significantly here).

Chocolate, how do you distinguish yourself as an E? What made you decide introverted E rather than extroverted I? Or does it even matter?

Ok, new type. ANTP. A=ambivert.

(I said I wasn't going to think this hard about it... but here I go analyzing again! )

 

[Vatroslav]

Yes, I would say exactly that! Ambivert!

I have a very balanced I-E

I like talking to people...

...but I talk to them only about deeper subjects.

I'm a good speaker, in front of no matter how much people, I hate dancing, but I love singing, no matter in front of how much people, I laugh and joke all the time...

But, I am highly introspective, avoid the masses (hate when there is too much people around me)...

and much other...

And on every test I get a high I...

and it looks like I'm not the only one...

 

[Vatroslav]

And can it be something like learned extroversion?

 

[mathy]

And can it be something like learned extroversion?

You may be on to something. Perhaps society encourages extroversion, and we learn to cope by being more E than we would have been?

I don't think this is true in my case (I've always gotten into trouble for talking in class, since preschool. Seems like slight extroversion has been quite natural for me.) But maybe some others here. This could explain the aversion to extroversion that some of you have... since it's not natural, it doesn't feel right? Forced extroversion? And since INTPs in general dislike being told what to do, this could lead to feeling badly about being that way. All this being unconscious. I don't know, these are just speculations. And I don't mean to sound like I think you have given in to societal pressures, but perhaps in order to cope with society at large, there may be some sacrifices we make, be they conscious or unconscious?

 

[Vatroslav]

As a kid, I was very introverted, and as I spend my time with people, I'm sure that I learn to socialize. I don't really think it is too unnatural, actually, I would say it is good to be ambiverted, so your field of acting actually is wider and wider...

Or, question is if you can call it extroversion at all...

because, no matter how extroverted I am when I'm with people, I never become less Introverted Thinker...

Actually, my mental processes are always up...

So, I think it is much better to say it is not learned extroversion, but learned socializing and communication. Only that.

 

[Vatroslav]

And I do not have any kind of... need to socialize too much. But when it comes to socializing and communication, I don't have any problems...

...problems have those who I talk to if they do not understand me. Because I never could do chit-chat... when I speak to people, it always has something to do with my field of interest...
(except when joking)

...guess that's why they treat me as a wierdo... hahah

 

[Red Mage]

You may be on to something. Perhaps society encourages extroversion, and we learn to cope by being more E than we would have been?

I don't think this is true in my case (I've always gotten into trouble for talking in class, since preschool. Seems like slight extroversion has been quite natural for me.) But maybe some others here. This could explain the aversion to extroversion that some of you have... since it's not natural, it doesn't feel right? Forced extroversion? And since INTPs in general dislike being told what to do, this could lead to feeling badly about being that way. All this being unconscious. I don't know, these are just speculations. And I don't mean to sound like I think you have given in to societal pressures, but perhaps in order to cope with society at large, there may be some sacrifices we make, be they conscious or unconscious?

I think for me it's the opposite. I'm naturally inclined to be extroverted, but I "learned" to be introverted for one reason or another. Like bad experiences or something. The rest of you may be the other way. I don't know.

In grade school where you have one teacher and one class, I was a super outgoing class clown one year and then totally quiet the next and then back to class clown and so forth. In middle/high school where you have different periods with different teachers and classmates, it depended on the class; sometimes I was class-clowny and sometimes I just sat there afraid to talk. And it remains that way to this day. My 'version totally depends on where I am and who is around me.

 

[Vatroslav]

^^ yes, that is frequently defined as ambiversion...

...with me it does not matter where it is. It matters if I want to or do not want to socialize and communicate and be a clowny...

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

well, when at parents evening (parents talk to teachers about my performance) sometimes i have two of my teachers sat opposite and one will overhear another teacher say i am loud/quiet and will be shocked as i am the opposite in their lesson

 

[snowqueen]

But maybe some others here. This could explain the aversion to extroversion that some of you have... since it's not natural, it doesn't feel right? Forced extroversion? And since INTPs in general dislike being told what to do, this could lead to feeling badly about being that way.

All this being unconscious. I don't know, these are just speculations. And I don't mean to sound like I think you have given in to societal pressures, but perhaps in order to cope with society at large, there may be some sacrifices we make, be they conscious or unconscious?

Just before I discovered I was INTP I felt like I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown - in retrospect I think it was because I had been forcing myself to be extrovert ever since I had children and had almost lost touch with myself completely. It was such a relief when I realised that I didn't have to be like that any more. I was totally exhausted, suffering from almost constant anxiety and hypersensitivity. From the moment I read the INTP profile a huge weight was lifted and gradually I have relaxed back down to ground zero. For a little while I found it really hard to function at work and at home I had disconnected so much, but now I'm gradually re-engaging and making better choices of how to use my energy around communicating with others.

 

[Enne]

You may be on to something. Perhaps society encourages extroversion, and we learn to cope by being more E than we would have been?

I don't think this is true in my case (I've always gotten into trouble for talking in class, since preschool. Seems like slight extroversion has been quite natural for me.) But maybe some others here. This could explain the aversion to extroversion that some of you have... since it's not natural, it doesn't feel right? Forced extroversion? And since INTPs in general dislike being told what to do, this could lead to feeling badly about being that way. All this being unconscious. I don't know, these are just speculations. And I don't mean to sound like I think you have given in to societal pressures, but perhaps in order to cope with society at large, there may be some sacrifices we make, be they conscious or unconscious?

I may be the opposite. Growing up I had a lot of clashes with authority figures and peers that led me to close up, wall them off, and in some cases hold imaginary conversations with myself . Consequently as I got older I learned that most people just weren't worth the trouble, and started to block them off / out.

On the MBTI testings, I test a very close I to E, (or sometimes E to I???), like a 56/42 or something like that. I think in my case (and possibly for other people), there can also be a learnt introversion...

...on the other hand I don't like to think that my 'energy source' or w/e has to come from other people. I wouldn't want the vulnerability that comes on having to thrive on interactions,

 

[Beat Mango]

Just before I discovered I was INTP I felt like I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown - in retrospect I think it was because I had been forcing myself to be extrovert ever since I had children and had almost lost touch with myself completely. It was such a relief when I realised that I didn't have to be like that any more. I was totally exhausted, suffering from almost constant anxiety and hypersensitivity. From the moment I read the INTP profile a huge weight was lifted and gradually I have relaxed back down to ground zero. For a little while I found it really hard to function at work and at home I had disconnected so much, but now I'm gradually re-engaging and making better choices of how to use my energy around communicating with others.

Maybe it's because I'm younger, but I have a harder time accepting the INTP tag. When I first found out it was definitely a relief, that there's a whole set of people just like me, but there are moments when it doesn't sit well: I'll never be that happy extraverted person I always wanted to be. So I find myself resisting it on that basis.