Introverted ENTP

[Concojones]

I'll never be that happy extraverted person I always wanted to be. So I find myself resisting it on that basis.

I can understand that. But hey, maybe you can be the dry humourist (Dr. House 'light') or occasional witty joker. It's a good life, too!

 

[mathy]

I may be the opposite. Growing up I had a lot of clashes with authority figures and peers that led me to close up, wall them off, and in some cases hold imaginary conversations with myself . Consequently as I got older I learned that most people just weren't worth the trouble, and started to block them off / out.

On the MBTI testings, I test a very close I to E, (or sometimes E to I???), like a 56/42 or something like that. I think in my case (and possibly for other people), there can also be a learnt introversion...

...on the other hand I don't like to think that my 'energy source' or w/e has to come from other people. I wouldn't want the vulnerability that comes on having to thrive on interactions,

I think I am probably a lot like you in that respect (I test about 50/50 on I/E). Both my parents (and my brother) are introverts, and they may have stifled some of my tendency towards extroversion (read: making fun of/punishing me for talking all the time/at "inappropriate" times).

Also, I've had some trouble making friends in the past, which has probably lead me to feel rather jaded about it (and caused be to be less extroverted than I may otherwise have been?).... although I always did want it. I envied the people who made friends effortlessly. I wanted it, too, but I knew I was different... and I knew that it wouldn't come easy. But I have always enjoyed company. I enjoy intellectual discussions, I enjoy discussions of the bizarre, the new, the improbable...

So I wonder to what extent our I/E is influenced by our immediate surroundings (and our upbringing)? And (off-topic...) for that matter, T/F? Would I have been more T if I weren't female? Would I have been rewarded more for thinking than feeling?

@snowqueen: I've been feeling like that lately, in regards to my messiness, indecisiveness, perpetual lateness, and inability to observe the world around me. After I read the INTP profile a light bulb went on, and I realized I could accept these as quirks and move on. It was a huge relief.

 

[Enne]

I think I am one too... I've been lurking on this forum, INTPcentral and ENTP.org, and I feel like I can relate to both groups of people in some respect...I dunno. I think I can identify with the INTP subtype because I spend a great deal of time in ELABORATE mental fantasies , but at the same time, I integrate what I've read/watched or w/e into them...it's...weird.

I took the MBTI indicator on a couple of sites and have to say, if I'm answering the questions completely relaxed/honestly/intuitively I come out as an ENTP. I can relate to extroverts...I enjoy being around them and like that sort of pull that they have, the way they want to draw you out. I kind of intentionally enjoy being sought after by extroverted friends/acquaintances, and can sometimes need a break from my more reserved friends when I just want to break out and try something

If you are unsure about your type (or like me and have that _NTP pingponging), you could try taking the http://www.humanmetrics.com test. I like it because it allows for more of an E/I and N/S, etc. gradient.

Mine was:

Your Type is
ENTP
Extraverted Intuitive Thinking Perceiving
Strength of the preferences %
11 38 75 100

You are:

* slightly expressed extravert
* moderately expressed intuitive personality
* distinctively expressed thinking personality
* very expressed perceiving personality


Hope that site helps.

 

[chocolate]

Chocolate, how do you distinguish yourself as an E? What made you decide introverted E rather than extroverted I? Or does it even matter?

Ok, new type. ANTP. A=ambivert.

Hey mathy. I really tend to be variable, and I admit I do go through periods (sometimes up to months) where the outer world does not matter at ALL (this when I get caught up in my math). But although I can be quite introverted at times, I still identify more with the ENTP than the INTP description. For example, my sister calls me an 'idea machine', which sounds pretty ENTP! I think if I look at the letters separately, it is really hard for me to decide whether I am E or I, but if I look at the four letters as one word, I feel more ENTPish. Also I am sure I don't have a functioning Si!

What I share with the INTP description is the 'precise in language and thought' and the tendency to be able to see flaws in someone's logic. Also I very much enjoy abstraction, and I LOOOOOVE to sit around for hours with INTPs talking about fun things like defining concepts and sharpening my views of things...

 

[Red Mage]

If you are unsure about your type (or like me and have that _NTP pingponging), you could try taking the http://www.humanmetrics.com test. I like it because it allows for more of an E/I and N/S, etc. gradient.

I kinda like this test. I got ENTJ. This is the second test I got that in.

E 22 N 88 T 50 J 22

I think I'm a repressed E after all. And J. Lookit that.

 

[cheese]

I test as all kinds of weird shit on humanmetrics.com

Therefore no one trust it.

 

[Venture]

Can you swear or use vulgar langauge on this forum?

 

[Red Mage]

I test as all kinds of weird shit on humanmetrics.com

Therefore no one trust it.

I found it to have more insightful questions than most. So far the best test I've seen before that is MyPersonality.info and this certainly beats that one. Dunno.

 

[Enne]

I test as all kinds of weird shit on humanmetrics.com

Therefore no one trust it.

*chuckles*

 

[del]

I'm interested

Ok. (Banana Mango is referring to my comment without explanation that Jungians usually argue that extroverts have weaker egos than introverts.)

I will say as a disclaimer than I'm not sure how much I'd buy into this idea, but...

... the psychobabble argument was that extroverts are hypersensitive to the fact that the world does NOT revolve around them, and so deep down they feel like to be "worth" anything they must be actively participating in the world. And while introverts too realize that everything doesn't revolve around them, either, they do see their own selves as the focal point of their existence.

Hence, extroverts often unconsciously think that what you do is what makes you matter as a human being. Introverts often unconsciously think that it's who you are that makes you matter as a human being.

Note that these aren't philosophical beliefs, but are unconscious tendencies that are revealed through patterns of a person's choices and behavior. (Supposedly -- I'm skeptical of this stuff.)

(An interesting aside, I've always found this philosophical question interesting: who is the better person, the evil man who does good in the world and doesn't show his evil in any detectable way, or the good man that tries hard and fails and accidentally causes great harm?)

It's more nuanced than that, but that's really the gist.

Also, as del mentioned, I tend to be action oriented. I may be thinking to myself all the while, but I like to be actively doing something (gardening, walking the dogs, working with my hands, working in the darkroom, framing, decorating, building things). I don't really understand how being action oriented would affect whether you're I or E. Some of my most introspective moments occur when I'm actively working on something in the world. Maybe I'm missing something?

There are two facets to this.

One is that, In the first place, for extroverts the entire point of action is more likely to be just about the action in and of itself rather than introspecting. Purposely using action as a vehicle to inspire introspection is more likely to be an introvert thing. Extroverts are less likely to think about themselves as the center of the action.

The second part will sort of contradict the first, but if extroverts WANT to introspect, they often can't do it without external verification. And by that I mean like... for example, an extrovert might purposely throw him or herself into an awkward situation just to see how they react. They can't predict beforehand. It's like their inner self is detached and to get a sense of it they have to do science experiments on it. Introverts don't need to do this often since they have such a strong sense of self and have access to their "inner self" so easily.

So yeah, it's way more complicated than the "likes to party" vs "likes to stay at home and read" stereotypes.

 

[Beat Mango]

Hence, extroverts often unconsciously think that what you do is what makes you matter as a human being. Introverts often unconsciously think that it's who you are that makes you matter as a human being.

Ah yes, that's always how I've thought. After all, what you do is just a reflection, an expression of who you are. I'm starting (trying) to appreciate the importance of "what you do" though, especially after reading Sartre and the likes.

 

[snowqueen]

I tried the humanmetrics test and yet again:

[SIZE=+1]Your Type is
[SIZE=+2] INTP[/SIZE][/SIZE]
Introverted 89
Intuitive 75
Thinking 50
Perceiving 56

• very expressed introvert
• distinctively expressed intuitive personality
• moderately expressed thinking personality
• moderately expressed perceiving personalityT

There are always some questions I find really hard to score yes or no. I argue both sides of the argument!

In this test:

Strict observance of the established rules is likely to prevent a good outcome If you are sending someone to the moon then no, obviously! But lots of times bad practice is perpetuated because of adherence to bad rules.
Objective criticism is always useful in any activity I think so, but in human relationships it doesn't always seem to be so helpful!

You value justice higher than mercy AAARRRGGGGHHH who do you think I am? Solomon?

You are strongly touched by the stories about people's troubles Not always immediately, not consistently, but when I am, I am. But it doesn't last long, except when it does.

 

[snowqueen]

I have been reflecting on this thread. A few years ago I did the MBTI at work and came out as ENTJ (don't laugh) and thought 'yes I guess it is quite like me but not entirely'. I then went online and did lots of tests and got quite a variety of different types each time I did it. At the time it made me discount the theory as not particularly useful if it could change so often. But it did set me thinking about why I kept getting different ones - it seemed to indicate that I didn't have a clear picture of what I was like, that I lacked consistency. This didn't particularly bother me (which of course is the appropriate INTP response ) as I didn't like the idea of being 'fixed' anyway. I sort of forgot about it until earlier in the year when a break-up with a boyfriend sent me into a huge crisis. It wasn't that we'd been going out for long or that the relationship was particularly intense or even that I was madly in love - it was the way it ended which I have described elsewhere (on the emotional intelligence thread for example) and again I was left feeling that I was some kind of relationship disaster area.

The difficulties I have with people generally are not so problematic - with friends I am accepted as the one with odd ideas, who forgets birthdays, appointments, has a bizarre sense of humour, tends not to come to parties etc. and that's fine - I am socially skilled enough on a one to one or small group basis. At work I get on well with almost all of my colleagues - I am good at managing work relationships because they are more formal. I have deep problems with my boss because she is totally illogical in everything but at the same time obsessed with positivist empirical research (she likes to measure things and she likes to think this makes things true) and she goes round hugging people. (sorry I had to pause there to stop myself being sick). I also have fantastic relationships with my teenage children - we live in a harmonious (if very messy) home.

So with all of those social successes I felt stunned that yet again I wasn't able to negotiate an intimate relationship - what was 'wrong' with me? I felt that I couldn't blame the other person entirely though there were some real issues with things he did. I fell into a period of reflection and wrote a lot and used my blog and then one day I came across this programme that 'typealyzed' your blog and it came up with INTP and particularly the 'love typealyzer' described the exact way I had behaved in the past relationship/s. I came here and started learning about myself and began to feel that I was in some way 'healing' - becoming me again.

So what's this got to do with this thread? Well before I knew I was INTP I was constantly trying to fit in - I did lots of personal development courses, as part of my job I had to learn how to run groups and learned about group dynamics, having children forces you to socialise with people you wouldn't necessarily choose as friends, I have a strong social conscience so I generally try to be nice to people I encounter etc. etc. but I think this also brought with it a false sense of change - there is a big difference between development and change.

The thing with being able to negotiate social relationships is that you don't have to do it all the time. It's like being on a stage - you act, you leave, you de-role. Incidentally - what a phenomenal human skill that is - to be able to transcend your nature doesn't need to mean something grand and dramatic - we are all doing every day and it's one of the things that has enable co-operation and collaboration which are considered part of the human evolutionary advantage. But my basic tendencies and preferences remain INTP - and in an intimate relationship it is impossible to keep up any of the learned social behaviours forever. The truth will out!

Previously the 'truth' about me was frightening - I was cold, unthinking, unlovable, incapable of emotional intimacy - all 'problems'. Once I learned I was INTP then I could see that I had unwittingly been presenting a false personality to people I was trying to become intimate with. I was presenting the pleasant social face. I'm not saying my INTP face isn't pleasant but we all know it's not 'nice' exactly. This revelation has been liberating to me. Now I know myself better and can present an honest account of myself. Already I'm having very different conversations. Now every time I do MBTI tests I get INTP and I really couldn't imagine answering the opposite to most of the questions. I feel I know myself at last. Doesn't mean I have to give up all the other skills I've learned - they are incredibly useful and important - but when I de-role I return to 'me'.

So all of you who are getting different results - maybe it might help to thing about your more intimate relationships to gain some insight into what your most dominant tendency might be.

 

[The Fury]

There isn't a single personality test out there that can really define who you are. All of them are subjective, all of them ask you questions based on situations you've never been in and so don't know how to respond and all of them have questions which you can interpret in numerous ways.

The MBTI test is as flawed as any other and though you might, upon reading a certain type recognize numerous facets of your personality in it, it doesn't mean that it sums you up completely. Every single time I complete an MBTI test, it tells me that I'm an INTJ and while I have numerous things in common with that type, I feel much more in sync with INTPs.

In the end, does it really matter what type you are, it doesn't change who you are as a person. I know it can feel comforting to be able to classify yourself, to be able to put yourself into a box, say that "this is me" and relieve yourself from constant soul searching, but it's really only a false comfort.

A simple test with just 70 questions can't tell you who you are, I doubt that even an incredibly complicated one with 100,000 questions could. I think slyguy put it best:

"so many tests...it seems the more I take the less I know about myself"

 

[mathy]

One is that, In the first place, for extroverts the entire point of action is more likely to be just about the action in and of itself rather than introspecting. Purposely using action as a vehicle to inspire introspection is more likely to be an introvert thing. Extroverts are less likely to think about themselves as the center of the action.

Ok, I understand now. So in my case, I tend to do things for the action, rather than introspection. Often introspection will happen naturally, but I don't set out for that purpose.

The second part will sort of contradict the first, but if extroverts WANT to introspect, they often can't do it without external verification. And by that I mean like... for example, an extrovert might purposely throw him or herself into an awkward situation just to see how they react. They can't predict beforehand. It's like their inner self is detached and to get a sense of it they have to do science experiments on it. Introverts don't need to do this often since they have such a strong sense of self and have access to their "inner self" so easily.

I'm still a bit hazy about this, can you elaborate? I do feel fairly detached from my inner self... in some ways.

I really tend to be variable, and I admit I do go through periods (sometimes up to months) where the outer world does not matter at ALL (this when I get caught up in my math).

Yes, I feel the same way. Definitely it comes and goes in spurts (usually depending on my work/studies).


And Fury, I am in total agreement. Its amazing how different all of us here are from each other, even though we are the "same" type. So yeah, definitely not an end-all-be-all, but it can provide insight and help us to realize that we can't fight all of our natural inclinations. (i.e. I can stop beating myself up for not being neat/on time/observant)

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

There isn't a single personality test out there that can really define who you are. All of them are subjective, all of them ask you questions based on situations you've never been in and so don't know how to respond and all of them have questions which you can interpret in numerous ways.

The MBTI test is as flawed as any other and though you might, upon reading a certain type recognize numerous facets of your personality in it, it doesn't mean that it sums you up completely. Every single time I complete an MBTI test, it tells me that I'm an INTJ and while I have numerous things in common with that type, I feel much more in sync with INTPs.

In the end, does it really matter what type you are, it doesn't change who you are as a person. I know it can feel comforting to be able to classify yourself, to be able to put yourself into a box, say that "this is me" and relieve yourself from constant soul searching, but it's really only a false comfort.

A simple test with just 70 questions can't tell you who you are, I doubt that even an incredibly complicated one with 100,000 questions could. I think slyguy put it best:

"so many tests...it seems the more I take the less I know about myself"

Exactly. I need more Ni to point out there is nothing more than a man behind the curtain. I get swayed so easily by this shit and it makes me disgusted with myself. You'd think I'd learn by now- you mean I both think AND feel, pretty much equally? How is that possible?

It would be better to focus on the things I know and act on those things and stop wasting my time treating theories as gospel. A three year old could tell me that.

Blah.

EDIT: Note my caption on my avatar. Uh, maybe I should heed that?

 

[Enne]

So all of you who are getting different results - maybe it might help to think about your more intimate relationships to gain some insight into what your most dominant tendency might be.

Are you more open in your intimate relationships? I find that among my friends and family I am more of an ENTP, but in unfamiliar territory, I present a more introverted approach. Even then, in most of my relationships I'm holding back, especially in the Ne/Ti department, but that is mainly a trained holding back that is comforted / compensated by internalizing my would be reactions or responses. I'm sure I wouldn't be living at home for as long as I've managed to, and I'd be a great deal more distant from some of my friends if this internalizing were to come out. When I was a kid or even a few years ago I might have tested differently, but I feel like I've been able to find so much solstice in my inner world / inner workings that it would be hard to let Ti slip into the background at this point.

 

[boradicus]

I first discovered extroversion during my senior year in highschool. I had this fantasy abou the Beatles and stardom that went all the way back to junior high and my first year in highschool - I wanted to be in a band so I could have friends like the fab4. And I felt that there was this burgeoning artist inside just waiting to get out in front of a bedazzled audience. Suddenly, when I came back from my summer trip to europe between by junior and senior years. it happened. I became more the extrovert. I dropped out of my 3rd year German class and transferred to an additional class period of Drama (I had only just taken drama during my senior year) - I had gotten into German 3 from German 1 because I was asked to join the class by my teacher - I thought we would have a rubric to follow and didn't prepare throughout the summer - so that is another story - BUT I not only took drama, but I joined two senior men's groups - the one's thrown off the campus the year previous and their interim replacement. I think perhaps that there were several dual memberships amoung our ranks, although the official replacement senior men's group was pathetically small by comparison.

I started going to football games and yelling at the top of my lungs and strange odd things like that! I began attending parties with my guitar (linus blanket) lol. It happened albeit slowly, yet I somehow began to transform into a more extroverted person. As a result, early in college I took a test administered by a fraternity brother (fraternities!) which showed me to be an introvert/extrovert split. However, as drinking became prevalent and dysfunctional, I quickly lost the edge I had gained and became extremely reclusive without the booze. I was scared to check my mail. I wouldn't leave the apartment except on rare occassions, and I was deathly afraid of being seen around the fraternity house for some unknown reason. That all passed after I went to treatment for drinking, but being that it was such an intense departure from the transformation that had previously taken place, I have to wonder what it all really meant!

Could it be that extroversion/introversion can be attributed to successful goal strategies? Does the rational personality naturally ambivilate between the two due to extreme duress - or how does the ENTP personality generally cope with stress and anxiety? Are they simply crazy and project their fantasy with prodigious intuitive ability upon their external circumstances? What actually happens? And is it the same for an ambivert vs a 'true' INTP or ENTP????

Please respond as I am very hot on this topic currenty! Check out --> intp2entp.wikispaces.com to see what strange experiment I have resolved to undertake! Join me to find out how we can change and learn from our ENTP cousins ! =)

Mark