INTPf Mafia #3: Do you even rift?

[Jennywocky]

I think it's pretty hilarious (but awesome) that Helv probably had the best looking Town play on the surface on Day 2-3.

I kind of gave up at that point and I didn't want to take advantage of RB's post. I need to work on the regularity of the models I make.

You were really confusing me for a while. You had some really good Town play, and then ... play where I just wasn't sure what was going on and it ended up threatening to taint all your good Town play as some kind of scum ploy. That's why I was stuck on you for so long.

Anyway, this was your first game (and you're now ahead of me, I've never played VT). So you'll just get better and better.

 

[Seteleechete]

Yea, but we were up against seconds, not a lifetime Sete..

But yea, that's a major stumbling block for me to, well into it the one day, well inconvenienced by it the other.

I still have a lot of homework to do, and I'm hoping play will come more naturally to me future.

This game was much like RL has been for me. I do great if I try/have the motivation to keep going but then I just fall flat as my motivation leaves me and things seem simpler if I just don't care, despite actually liking participation. And then I try to get by on cheap tricks instead. Far to fucking reminiscent.

 

[Sinny91]

Result.

Haha.

 

[Hadoblado]

@Sete
It can be exhausting. Your day one was really good, I gave you praise in my QT. When you do lose motivation, it can be a hard fight to keep in it. I've drank before to keep myself in the game, and I'm not someone who often drinks alone.

An area I'm exploring atm is ways to cut down on the energy required to participate adequately. I obviously kind of splurge on the effort since I have the time, but I want to not have to dedicate the better part of my day to mafia. Nor do I want to feel depressed when the game feels like it's going to shit. Limiting my posting time in day one was an effort, but ultimately it didn't help.

 

[Sinny91]

This game was much like RL has been for me. I do great if I try/have the motivation to keep going but then I just fall flat as my motivation leaves me and things seem simpler if I just don't care, despite actually liking participation. And then I try to get by on cheap tricks instead. Far to fucking reminiscent.

Well you just summed up a lot of my mentality too. When the game started, I was well engrossed in my conspiracy stuff, for like a whole 36 hours, I could barely drag myself away from what I was doing.. Then I started playing Assassins Creed.. Then there was a fight.. then there was a party.

I always assume I'm going to be less busy than I am, life has a way of throwing these curve balls.

But, I found this game a lot more manageable in comparison to the others...

And I really keep hoping for that week when the outside world and other people irl will fuck off and leave me to hermit, and let me mafia in peace lol.

Literally everyone I'm surrounded by at the moment just takes the piss outta me for being a 'geek', and go out of their ways purposely disrupt my geeky habits... When you come over here, can you take me back with you?

Also sorry to Fukyo for the extra aggression. I was taking liberties (out of frustration) with my scum read on you.

 

[PmjPmj]

ROFL Sinny. 'Busy' with research, gaming and parties.

I remember the days when I thought that was being busy, too.

You have it so fucking good. Enjoy these days, young un'.

 

[Helvete]

I think it's pretty hilarious (but awesome) that Helv probably had the best looking Town play on the surface on Day 2-3.

I was just scum hunting :P I pretty much took no notice that I was scum and actually just played as if I was town. Also the fact I've never played past d1 before felt really weird and I was expecting a lot more jokes that I must be scum because of it...

I never knew how to defend fukyo when she was getting attention without drawing attention to myself, so pretty much just got others to look more scummy than her. When I asked whether the edit could be checked was a gamble, I didn't know if it could, or if what she said was even true but felt someone might ask so just did it.

I scummed up really badly start of d3 something I said which implicates me as scum if you thought about it logically and everything was screaming internally to edit it but didn't obviously (someone seeing the edit would be worse than it being left(yeah screw the rules)) so I just left it and if questioned I had a few stories planned behind it lol. See if you can find it
This was also partly why I became more active, more text = less chance of it being picked up on...

 

[PmjPmj]

IDK Helv. This part?

"@Fukyo town do not know who the other town are or who the blue roles are so this argument makes no sense."

 

[Shapelog]

The town is unable to prevent themselves from being eliminated, Mafia Wins!


The Mafia team were:


Fukyo & Helvete


​

Well I was right on 1, and wrong on another (who I didn't recheck).

Decent/good reads for me I suppose. I couldn't pressure qt due to replacement, and was right about the read list from him. Fuk....idk, Could of gone either way depending if I #Belize in my TR on gopher or not.

Well, this game was so incredibly stressful for me. I'm never playing again.


Some thoughts:

I was offended and surprised several people suggested I was being a bitch to Gopher. My need to clarify this was not a game tactic. Sorry Gopher!


I agree with the Shapelog's post about Hado's play. When I first got into the game, I didn't know his claim was legit and he immediately looked scummy to me.


Don't take this personally Sinny, but I thought your game was poor. If I had been town I would have still been on your case for the exact same reasons. You were way too selfish and aggressive as a town player, and your insults showed a grave lack of sportsmanship. I also don't think you should take people reading you as scum personally, all players are supposed to be scum hunting.

Try playing another game A) as not mafia, and B) from the start. Replacing in (especially on gopher who apparently was sus.) is harder, as you are never going to be as connected as others who started will.

My play can't have been that poor considering I survived till day three, and pinned the scum.

We would have survived had the other Town saw through the very obvious mafia wagon me me.

Like literally, who else was getting 'cased' today?

I had to keep responding to same lines of questioning time and time again.

I encouraged people to look else where but noo...

And FYI, I'm not the sort of person who has to lie about being drunk. I woke up with acute alcohol poisoning today. Sheesh, if you can't grasp the basics of my personality, I don't know how you expect to grasp the intricacies.

There is a guy name Koshi on TL, who can confirm himself as town even game he is town in based off tone, and find scum. Yet, loses the game because town doesn't believe him at all on his reads due to his tone.

You basically fell in the same problum as well.

Ik how it feels, since i basically did what you did here in another game (and even pinned scum) but, it is all in vain if no one trusts you.

Yea but so far the feedback consists of "She put her survival first" "She was too angry"

Isn't that my personality, the angry survivalist? Where am I? On a typology forum? rofl.

We've got some sensors here right? Where are the details?

I absolutely blame the rest of Town for today's lynch, I found the scum bullshit and lynch on me to be so painfully obviously, there were zero other cases being made.. now how incredibly lazy is that on their part?

Yellow committed suicide, huh.. mm.

People were fixated on the cases made on me, which were extremely weak - if you know me at all - and completely ignored the cases I made in return. Which are short and sweet and they always will be, because I don't chat shit. (Apart from the obvious shit talk, which I admit on site)

I cased Fukyo in 3 lines or less, all points on point.

See here is what really screw you over.
Was the Blue read (nice job btw) on me, then lynching me without bringing it up, or having a strong reasoning why you switched before hand. Added that with your other switches out of nowhere, it hurt your reputation. Finally, your posts early on didn't buy you and cred for the late game.

Not only that, but you UNDERMINED in a way for us to actually believe you were being you based off of your D1 posts, that made you look like you were trying on PURPOSE to act like that.

Shapelog, I think you played well considering the role you were in, maybe a bit more activity would've saved you but it couldn't be helped in the end.

Bla just reminded me - well done Spaceblog. The way you came out swinging did, to me, get the game rolling. I think your tactic was excellent considering your role, and I really enjoyed your contributions.

Shame your shitty internet connection got you lynched.

I did decent, activity was a major fail in my play, but honestly I thought I was town read/null when I left. No one voiced any sus. at me when I came back, and no one seemed to want to.

If I wasn't doc, I might of tried to play a town leader role, and direct the town a bit more. Should of honestly done it anyways.

I like the new Shapelog approach as well.

As always, Would love to here criticism. QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/g4e4EMpmKNvN

 

[Sinny91]

Question Spacelog, what did you mean when you posted that you 'should have spent your time shit posting but couldn't be bothered'?

That's when you peaked my interest as Blue Role.

Do doctors usually 'shit post'?

The worst thing I ever done was mention the blue read, I'll be keeping my proverbial mouth shut in future.

 

[Jennywocky]

I was just scum hunting :P I pretty much took no notice that I was scum and actually just played as if I was town. Also the fact I've never played past d1 before felt really weird and I was expecting a lot more jokes that I must be scum because of it...

Since you know who everyone is, stuff seems more obvious to you. I remember being terrified while playing scum, figuring everyone was on to me all the time. But when you don't know who anyone is, everything can seem confusing from anyone.

This was a learning experience for me spectating, as I became aware of blind spots in my own perceptions even when not a participating. I kind of focused on "hot spots" for example, and dismissed you as potential scum early because your Town game was better than most (as I hadn't read much of the Day 1 play with Gopher and QT). I also gave Fukyo a free pass, meta'ing her aggressive behavior and making allowance for her mistakes due to her n00b status.

It does say that the more consistently you play (and the more regular scumhunting you do), the more of a "pass" you give yourself. People will focus on more problematic players in general.

There was also a line in the Werewolf strategy thread QT posted that was something I had already thought myself when playing scum: I don't have to trick the people I've already gotten killed, and I don't even have to fool the person I'm about to mislynch. I only have to fool the live players in the game, up until the time they get killed out of the game. If they see through me from the spectator box... it has no bearing on the game. So I kept trying to focus just on fooling the specific people still in play.

I never knew how to defend fukyo when she was getting attention without drawing attention to myself, so pretty much just got others to look more scummy than her.

That's a viable strategy and might be your particular style. We are both kind of chameleons in style, whereas Fukyo is more assertive.

When I asked whether the edit could be checked was a gamble, I didn't know if it could, or if what she said was even true but felt someone might ask so just did it.

Yeah. in the spectator box, we were kind of tiring of the harping about the edit, it seemed like a minor point overall, but Fukyo was getting most of the attention for it, not you. She was the one laying on the horn, and it looked more like she just caught you up in her mania.

I scummed up really badly start of d3 something I said which implicates me as scum if you thought about it logically and everything was screaming internally to edit it but didn't obviously (someone seeing the edit would be worse than it being left(yeah screw the rules)) so I just left it and if questioned I had a few stories planned behind it lol. See if you can find it
This was also partly why I became more active, more text = less chance of it being picked up on...

I dunno, but you asking Sete if he was okay was like, "yeeaahhhh... dude, that's laying it on a little too much."

Now I'll have to go back and look, but it's all hindsight now.

 

[Shapelog]

Question Spacelog, what did you mean when you posted that you 'should have spent your time shit posting but couldn't be bothered'?

That's when you peaked my interest as Blue Role.

Do doctors usually 'shit post'?

The worst thing I ever done was mention the blue read, I'll be keeping my proverbial mouth shut in future.

I honestly cannot remember when I said that.

If it was at the beginning of the game, when I was getting TR, that is why. Any PR role should try to play to be a weak TR/null/Weak scum read and I was getting TR so much that I feared that I might be the N1 Kill due to it (blessing in disguise with that storm)

If you find that X might be blue, just keep quite as town. If they come up, you can choose to state it tbh.

 

[Sinny91]

heh... Entropic has been in his share of scrapes too.

He does say that; but if you examine his post history over there, he's known for making very long cases and has no qualms about trying to explain himself anyway. He's probably one of the most prolific posters in the personality type sections. He invests long explanations (sometimes too long, from a reader perspective -- it can be overwhelming) in his arguments.

That particular post sums up my general feeling, most the time.

Has the forum layout changed at all? Last time I was on it, (not sure if it was my device or maybe mobile settings), but I found it awful to navigate.

Now not so much.

Oh, and you're about to witness me steal a number of links and bring them over here.

 

[The Gopher]

QT and Goph, can't say much, replacing out did confuse the remaining players and I think it was a big factor in scum having an easier time alleviating suspicion.

The fact I had to replace out made me far more scummy than I should have been before replacement. (I stay town like through mass posting/being able to type out my thoughts) It gave town a real chance on Fukyo. On the other hand the way QT replaced was a boon and with Helevtes play I honestly don't see how town could have caught him first. I've only seen mafia loses due to replacements in general but that's anecdotal. I would like to think that at full power QT and I are experienced enough to win but it's hard to say at the end of the day.

I never knew how to defend fukyo when she was getting attention without drawing attention to myself, so pretty much just got others to look more scummy than her. When I asked whether the edit could be checked was a gamble, I didn't know if it could, or if what she said was even true but felt someone might ask so just did it.

I scummed up really badly start of d3 something I said which implicates me as scum if you thought about it logically and everything was screaming internally to edit it but didn't obviously (someone seeing the edit would be worse than it being left(yeah screw the rules)) so I just left it and if questioned I had a few stories planned behind it lol. See if you can find it
This was also partly why I became more active, more text = less chance of it being picked up on...

MHHMMM YES AMAZING! This is a great point. As town about to be lynched or scum trying to save a partner... Make someone else more scummy, that's the best way to do it imo.

Also I think Fukyo literally said something that implied she was scum.

"Please explain to me how is Town supposed to know the power roles of other townies? How are they supposed to verify it? They can't talk to one another, so how? The only one who knows is RB."

Talking about town in the third person, this was a moment of pure terror as an scum observer. Now sometimes town talk like that but either way it draws suspicion.... normally...

 

[redbaron]

The thing that blew my mind more than anything was this:

> Day 2
> Fukyo about to be lynched
> Multiple people suddenly counter-wagon on Shapelog
> Shapelog flips Town
> Hado is NK'd
> Hado's #1 suspect was Fukyo and he was drilling her
> Despite counter-wagon out of fucking nowhere and the fact that confirmed town player's #1 suspect was Fukyo and he got NK'd, Town somehow doesn't see Fukyo as #1 target
> People barely even analyse the interactions at end of Day 2 and the NK
> Redbaron has aneurysm

 

[Shapelog]

The thing that blew my mind more than anything was this:

> Day 2
> Fukyo about to be lynched
> Multiple people suddenly counter-wagon on Shapelog
> Shapelog flips Town
> Hado is NK'd
> Hado's #1 suspect was Fukyo and he was drilling her
> Despite counter-wagon out of fucking nowhere and the fact that confirmed town player's #1 suspect was Fukyo and he got NK'd, Town somehow doesn't see Fukyo as #1 target
> People barely even analyse the interactions at end of Day 2 and the NK
> Redbaron has aneurysm

i am writing a guide don't worry <3

After it, I might analyze this game, but.....
No.

 

[PmjPmj]

The thing that blew my mind more than anything was this:

> Day 2
> Fukyo about to be lynched
> Multiple people suddenly counter-wagon on Shapelog
> Shapelog flips Town
> Hado is NK'd
> Hado's #1 suspect was Fukyo and he was drilling her
> Despite counter-wagon out of fucking nowhere and the fact that confirmed town player's #1 suspect was Fukyo and he got NK'd, Town somehow doesn't see Fukyo as #1 target
> People barely even analyse the interactions at end of Day 2 and the NK
> Redbaron has aneurysm

Yeah... that was rather an oversight.

Shall we get another going before my batshit crazy game? I reckon we have time for one more

 

[Minuend]

The thing that blew my mind more than anything was this:

> Day 2
> Fukyo about to be lynched
> Multiple people suddenly counter-wagon on Shapelog
> Shapelog flips Town
> Hado is NK'd
> Hado's #1 suspect was Fukyo and he was drilling her
> Despite counter-wagon out of fucking nowhere and the fact that confirmed town player's #1 suspect was Fukyo and he got NK'd, Town somehow doesn't see Fukyo as #1 target
> People barely even analyse the interactions at end of Day 2 and the NK
> Redbaron has aneurysm

The occasional aneurysm will strengthen your brain. It's just like excising.

---

I hope people wont present too much information that newbies have to read. For me at least, part of game enjoyment is learning by figuring out things myself. Also the more stuff people expect you to read, the higher expectations of your performance. Basically I just want to continue my pressureless existence if I ever decide to join a game and the rest are just excuses to make that happen

 

[redbaron]

The occasional aneurysm will strengthen your brain. It's just like excising.

---

I hope people wont present too much information that newbies have to read. For me at least, part of game enjoyment is learning by figuring out things myself. Also the more stuff people expect you to read, the higher expectations of your performance. Basically I just want to continue my pressureless existence if I ever decide to join a game and the rest are just excuses to make that happen

Yeah, I intended to not read anything for my first game. I ended up having to because of that Hadeboladeado guy

I didn't learn much from guides. Instead I read through about 4-5 completed games without checking the outcomes. I 'played' as if I was Town and I tried to figure out who was or wasn't mafia in each game. I pretended to do cop reads each night and then checked to see my success rate.

Then I just tried to find players whose thought patterns I could follow/understand and I guess I try to emulate them and incorporate what I'm learning into my own playstyle.

None of this means I'm any good though but at least it's more fun than trying to read through a 2,000 word snoozefest in the hopes it'll make me good at stuff, when every guide eventually gets to the point where it says, "well you just have to play and figure out what works for you!"

 

[Jennywocky]

That particular post sums up my general feeling, most the time.

Has the forum layout changed at all? Last time I was on it, (not sure if it was my device or maybe mobile settings), but I found it awful to navigate.

Yeah, the site is owned by Vertical Scope. (They own quite a number of websites.) So they control the overall template and the back-end infrastructure. It's improved some, as well as the navigation, but it's an older version of vBull I believe.

I can add subforums and move things around, but how it looks on screen pretty much is up to them.

Oh, and you're about to witness me steal a number of links and bring them over here.

Lol. That's fine, there's actually a lot of intense / really interesting discussions on Enneagram, Keirsey, and Socionics there. There are some hardcore typology members who really go at it and dig into this stuff. Entropic is one of them.

 

[Jennywocky]

"Please explain to me how is Town supposed to know the power roles of other townies? How are they supposed to verify it? They can't talk to one another, so how? The only one who knows is RB."

Talking about town in the third person, this was a moment of pure terror as an scum observer. Now sometimes town talk like that but either way it draws suspicion.... normally...

I guess you read it that way because you were scum.

I can see your point now (especially with the "they"), but I'm used to thinking in terms of 'standing outside' problems, so I skipped right past it as an observer. It should have registered but it didn't.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

Streamclog, what do you mean in your QT when you said you breadcrumbed doc with Butterflies? There's a lot of jargon there that I don't follow.

I know you were mentioning in Spec that you were trying to hint to Hado that you were doc, but I either didn't catch or plain didn't read those posts.

 

[Shapelog]

Streamclog, what do you mean in your QT when you said you breadcrumbed doc with Butterflies? There's a lot of jargon there that I don't follow.

I know you were mentioning in Spec that you were trying to hint to Hado that you were doc, but I either didn't catch or plain didn't read those posts.

I am very Clever.

It should be hidden somewhere in one of my D1 posts (unless I accidentally forgot to post it) Butterfiles, symbolically mean:

In early Christianity, the butterfly was a symbol of the soul. In China, it was used as a symbol of conjugal bliss and joy. The butterfly was particularly revered by the tribes of the American southwest. Its dance is performed by both Navajo and Hopis. In the Hopi tradition, unmarried girls of the butterfly clan wore their hair in the shape of butterfly wings to advertise their availability. To Native Americans, the butterfly is a symbol of change, joy and color. The exquisite butterfly was considered a miracle of transformation and resurrection.

Which, i am part Native American. Look at the last line. You see what I mean,

About Habo, I was trying to get to him that I was doc, based off of doc knowing there is a RB in the game. While Tracker knows there isn't. The Idea i had, was to code that I was doc, with it, but I screwed it up in excitation.

 

[The Gopher]

Probably didn't help that I was letting him know I was doc.

 

[Fukyo]

The thing that blew my mind more than anything was this:

> Day 2
> Fukyo about to be lynched
> Multiple people suddenly counter-wagon on Shapelog
> Shapelog flips Town
> Hado is NK'd
> Hado's #1 suspect was Fukyo and he was drilling her
> Despite counter-wagon out of fucking nowhere and the fact that confirmed town player's #1 suspect was Fukyo and he got NK'd, Town somehow doesn't see Fukyo as #1 target
> People barely even analyse the interactions at end of Day 2 and the NK
> Redbaron has aneurysm

I had an aneurysm because I was certain I will get lynched for sho.

 

[QuickTwist]

I had an aneurysm because I was certain I will get lynched for sho.

Yeah, this is a game for not the faint of heart to be sure. So basically if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

 

[Hadoblado]

Yeah INTPf has a short memory foreshore. There's very rarely even a glance at yesterday's lynch.

It's quite difficult to wrench my attention from the here and now. Especially when everyone else is pushing in the here and now. I think we should all put a little note in our diary that we need to look at every NK and lynch before attacking people that day. Put your hostilities on hold. If the consolation prize for mislynching is information, we'd be fools not to use it.

 

[Fukyo]

Yeah, this is a game for not the faint of heart to be sure. So basically if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Said by the guy who bolted out of the game on day 1.

 

[QuickTwist]

Yeah INTPf has a short memory foreshore. There's very rarely even a glance at yesterday's lynch.

It's quite difficult to wrench my attention from the here and now. Especially when everyone else is pushing in the here and now. I think we should all put a little note in our diary that we need to look at every NK and lynch before attacking people that day. Put your hostilities on hold. If the consolation prize for mislynching is information, we'd be fools not to use it.

Yup. VCA (vote count analysis) is an actual thing. its the main reason why I quoted every vote in the games I hosted. analysing votes here so far has been greatly underutilized. Looking at the previous games I hosted, it was very possible for Town to catch scum based on hammer votes alone, especially considering the context.

 

[redbaron]

I had an aneurysm because I was certain I will get lynched for sho.

Honestly I was really impressed that you avoided the lynch. Even though I make it sound like Town messed up, you played the right cards from that situation.

Also the soft bus on Helvete was decent, you guys avoided having anyone lump the two of you together without actually increasing suspicion on one another.

 

[QuickTwist]

Said by the guy who bolted out of the game on day 1.

I was busy and unable to commit to playing mafia at the time.