INTP vs ENTP

[Cryss Winters]

Am I an E who's been inside too long, or an I who's had too many E friends? Is there a way to tell?

 

[Artifice Orisit]

The real question is, are you Insane or Eccentric?

 

[Cryss Winters]

Right around the middle? =3
awesome avatar, btw.

 

[Decaf]

What would you rather do when you feel stressed out? Get away from it all or pull an all-nighter?

 

[Weliddryn]

Do you like... inventing ideas, systems, etc. or deconstructing them?

 

[Toad]

Come on Chris. You must know if you are an extrovert or an introvert!

Well...maybe you might just be an extrovert with social anxiety.

I read this article that differentiates introversion and shyness.

People who are shy have anxiety when around others. Shyness may effect both E's and I's. Shyness is a negative quality and should be overcome.

Introversion is a preference towards being independent and solitude. Introverts have no problem being around people, but just prefer to be by themselves. Introverts work better by themselves. Introverts gain energy from solitude while extroverts gain energy from social stimuli.

Hope this helps dude.

 

[Cryss Winters]

What would you rather do when you feel stressed out? Get away from it all or pull an all-nighter?

I rarely feel stressed out, but I'd rather go to sleep so I can wake up feeling as normal as possible.

 

[echoplex]

Ya know, I sometimes think I might be an E because when I get stressed I have this desire to push on and see it through. It's as if I believe that if I just hold on the stress will pass and I'll be better for the experience. This is alluding to Decaf's "get away" vs. "all-nighter" question. I'm not sure if that would make me an extrovert though. It's more complex than that, I'm sure.

 

[Enne]

Get away by preference. All nighter by necessity.

 

[Decaf]

In retrospect that's not the best dichotomy... I'm actually having trouble coming up with a solid one off the top of my head. Too distracted I guess

I will note that I know several popular I's and unpopular E's. A lot of your social dynamic is determined by how you fit the culture you're in. Personality is just a fundamental description of something that is eventually built up into behavior. If an introvert has a few highly rewarding introverted activities they take part in, they might have a huge amount of energy to use externally. The same can be true of an extravert who has a few highly rewarding personal relationships, or external projects to work on.

To really figure out which you believe you are, my best advice is to work backwards. What were you like as a kid? How do your parents describe you before you had the opportunity to learn all your coping mechanisms?

 

[Jordan~]

How objective are you capable of being? Would you rather speculate on events or influence them directly? Do you feel a sense of needing to be involved with reality, or only needing to observe it? When thinking about your thoughts, do you think of them differently to how you'd think of someone else's?

 

[Enne]

To really figure out which you believe you are, my best advice is to work backwards. What were you like as a kid? How do your parents describe you before you had the opportunity to learn all your coping mechanisms?

ENXP > ENTP > INTP.

 

[walfin]

I remember something from another forum, about how ENTPs process things differently and come up with different outcomes for different people while INTPs always come out with one solution to a problem.

But yeah ENTPs are probably more messy inside so if that's you then you're probably an ENTP.

 

[Decaf]

ENXP > ENTP > INTP.

Not quite sure what you're getting at Enne. Type doesn't change over time and no personality is greater than the other, so I assume I'm missing the point.

But yeah ENTPs are probably more messy inside so if that's you then you're probably an ENTP.

But more messy than what? I think you're on to something, but I always wonder if perhaps other's minds are more organized than mine, but I'll never know it until I develop telepathy.

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

I have an ENTP friend. He is the best time to be around when I actually feel like being social, but he also tires me out. How he is sober is how I am when I'm drunk. He's always leaping from one thought to another while I sit back, quietly, and try to find the unifying theme, the big picture. And he wants to be doing stuff, all of the time. We'll talk and he'll say, "Yeah, I really need to stop going out and drinking so much in order to accomplish something in my life." I'll think, "Yeah, I really need to stop thinking so much and actually do something in order to accomplish something in my life."

 

[Enne]

Not quite sure what you're getting at Enne. Type doesn't change over time and no personality is greater than the other, so I assume I'm missing the point.

In response to your previous post. It's a flow over time. I think type can change over time, especially in children as they grow into themselves and readjust to their environments.

 

[Decaf]

In response to your previous post. It's a flow over time. I think type can change over time, especially in children as they grow into themselves and readjust to their environments.

This is an explanation of my point of view, so please don't take it as an accusation against your own understanding of human development.

I suppose I simply don't believe that the incredibly complex processes the brain learns to accomplish in early childhood can be separated from a system of thinking. I believe that they are inextricably linked and that nothing short of brain damage could force the brain to reinvent itself.

When we're talking about functions and development we can talk about growth from simplicity to complexity, but an amoeba does not grow into a flower simply because the environment is favorable to that. Over generations that change can happen, but each generational iteration is allowed a level of re-invention unavailable to a single stable entity. I guess in a way reproduction can be considered nature's way of re-inventing itself to adapt to a new environment.

__

Breaking type down into individual functions an INTP has Ti > Ne > Si > Fe as the hierarchy of their consciousness. The reason for that specific order ties directly to adaptive development.

A child is born and starts collecting sensory input. The human mind is designed to "want" to do something with that stimuli, so it starts processing it. The first couple tries of making something meaningful out of it probably don't work because they're not organized enough to be reproducible. Neurons overwrite neurons and data is lost. Eventually an organizational system is created and it spreads like water forming into ice crystals.

Now that a structure to regularly process that stimuli is in place, a simple understanding can develop of what's going on. Kinks are worked out of the system as it becomes possible to compare one stimulus to another with an understanding that they have the same or different sources. A perception of environment develops, followed by a sense of presence in that environment. Eventually awareness of short-comings develop (I believe this happens between 3 to 5 years old) and the brain tries to cope by building a second layer over the base. The second layer does what the first layer could not. Namely it is opposite in function (judging or perceiving) and orientation (introverted or extraverted), allowing the brain for the first time to fully understand AND act in its environment. This is the base personality that defines your type for life.

The brain is capable of using all eight functions even at an early age, because they all physically exist in the structure of the brain. By picking preference traits, similar functions become obscured by the subconscious because of a lack of necessity. These unconscious functions (Te, Ni, Se, Fi) aren't as necessary because the conscious functions ease or remove the pressure to adapt in those ways. Those first two functions CAN NOT adapt to cover for their opposites, however. Si and Fe are developed not because they are integral to the matrix the brain has grown into, but because some situations still demand that things be done differently than the way it already knows how. The most complete function, Ti, takes care of SO much that its opposite, Fe, is often used only very occasionally and doesn't develop maturity until long after the other conscious functions.

__

So all that to say, the evolution of behavior and thought is a predictable pattern based on your fundamental personality type. By having some knowledge of how you developed, you can narrow the choices of what type to call yourself that are obscured by your own coping mechanisms that make you a successful human being.

 

[Enne]

This is an explanation of my point of view, so please don't take it as an accusation against your own understanding of human development.

I suppose I simply don't believe that the incredibly complex processes the brain learns to accomplish in early childhood can be separated from a system of thinking. I believe that they are inextricably linked and that nothing short of brain damage could force the brain to reinvent itself.

When we're talking about functions and development we can talk about growth from simplicity to complexity, but an amoeba does not grow into a flower simply because the environment is favorable to that. Over generations that change can happen, but each generational iteration is allowed a level of re-invention unavailable to a single stable entity. I guess in a way reproduction can be considered nature's way of re-inventing itself to adapt to a new environment.

__

Breaking type down into individual functions an INTP has Ti > Ne > Si > Fe as the hierarchy of their consciousness. The reason for that specific order ties directly to adaptive development.

A child is born and starts collecting sensory input. The human mind is designed to "want" to do something with that stimuli, so it starts processing it. The first couple tries of making something meaningful out of it probably don't work because they're not organized enough to be reproducible. Neurons overwrite neurons and data is lost. Eventually an organizational system is created and it spreads like water forming into ice crystals.

Now that a structure to regularly process that stimuli is in place, a simple understanding can develop of what's going on. Kinks are worked out of the system as it becomes possible to compare one stimulus to another with an understanding that they have the same or different sources. A perception of environment develops, followed by a sense of presence in that environment. Eventually awareness of short-comings develop (I believe this happens between 3 to 5 years old) and the brain tries to cope by building a second layer over the base. The second layer does what the first layer could not. Namely it is opposite in function (judging or perceiving) and orientation (introverted or extraverted), allowing the brain for the first time to fully understand AND act in its environment. This is the base personality that defines your type for life.

The brain is capable of using all eight functions even at an early age, because they all physically exist in the structure of the brain. By picking preference traits, similar functions become obscured by the subconscious because of a lack of necessity. These unconscious functions (Te, Ni, Se, Fi) aren't as necessary because the conscious functions ease or remove the pressure to adapt in those ways. Those first two functions CAN NOT adapt to cover for their opposites, however. Si and Fe are developed not because they are integral to the matrix the brain has grown into, but because some situations still demand that things be done differently than the way it already knows how. The most complete function, Ti, takes care of SO much that its opposite, Fe, is often used only very occasionally and doesn't develop maturity until long after the other conscious functions.

__

So all that to say, the evolution of behavior and thought is a predictable pattern based on your fundamental personality type. By having some knowledge of how you developed, you can narrow the choices of what type to call yourself that are obscured by your own coping mechanisms that make you a successful human being.

Hmm. Interesting. I agree with what you're saying, but I was wondering if in your theory that the initial base is the true personality? Doesn't the coping begin at the second stage?

Also, how did you arrive at this?

 

[Decaf]

Hmm. Interesting. I agree with what you're saying, but I was wondering if in your theory that the initial base is the true personality? Doesn't the coping begin at the second stage?

The second function is coping, but it isn't completely selective. The third and fourth and decided by the first and second, but the second could be sensing or intuiting in this case. Once that's decided, only unusual (not necessarily extreme) environmental pressures can cause other adjustments because otherwise the traits balance eachother out. Unusual is defined by the fact that the initial concept was defined from the people down perspective, so if your pressures were different than the people from whom this theory emerged, it would be unusual.

SIDE NOTE: Jungian theory does not take neuroticism into account, despite it being a "proven" psychological trait, so it may still account for marked differences among the same type.

Also, how did you arrive at this?

My masters is in chemistry, so that's how I approach psychology. From a ground up, molecule to macro perspective. I've read many books on personality type and several on psychology in general, so this comes out of that understanding. I'm working on getting a job near the University of Oregon so I can go back for a masters in psychology. Until then I don't have a lot of actual data to compare this stuff to, so I would understand if you discounted it. After all, my original theory about Alzheimer's turned out to be completely off, but I believe my theories on the brain are getting better every day.

 

[walfin]

But more messy than what? I think you're on to something, but I always wonder if perhaps other's minds are more organized than mine, but I'll never know it until I develop telepathy.

Or until better MRI is developed.

I think the difference is that the INTP cares more that all of the ideas fit into a unifying structure, whereas the ENTP cares more about the ideas themselves, the unifying structure merely helps to "catalogue" them, so to speak.

About function theory. I don't think all INTPs are necessarily Ti Ne Si Fe; only Ti Ne is consistent. I say this because I have Fi that's way stronger than Fe (at least according to cognitiveprocesses.com, and also from what I've read about those 2 functions), which is why I often identify with INFPs although I'm certainly more T.

 

[Enne]

Or until better MRI is developed.

I think the difference is that the INTP cares more that all of the ideas fit into a unifying structure, whereas the ENTP cares more about the ideas themselves, the unifying structure merely helps to "catalogue" them, so to speak.

About function theory. I don't think all INTPs are necessarily Ti Ne Si Fe; only Ti Ne is consistent. I say this because I have Fi that's way stronger than Fe (at least according to cognitiveprocesses.com, and also from what I've read about those 2 functions), which is why I often identify with INFPs although I'm certainly more T.

Hmm..I've had similar experiences with cognitiveprocesses, though I'm "pegged" as an ENTP with good Fi, which would allow some flitting/understanding with ENFPs. I like that site, it was the first place that seemed to be getting at your inner functions as opposed to messing with your mood / outlook du jour.

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

Or until better MRI is developed.

About function theory. I don't think all INTPs are necessarily Ti Ne Si Fe; only Ti Ne is consistent. I say this because I have Fi that's way stronger than Fe (at least according to cognitiveprocesses.com, and also from what I've read about those 2 functions), which is why I often identify with INFPs although I'm certainly more T.

So what's your order then, walfin? Mine, according to cognitive processes is Ne Ti Fi Si. But I'm still so confused by this whole Fe/Fi bit, so I don't know how valid it is. Just when I think I have it figured out (what I thought was Fi is actually Fe), you come along and make me start wondering again...

Why is the difference between the two so hard for me to understand?

Okay, so I'm trying to figure out how this is for me: My feelings are like this: typically, I have a hard time understanding the feelings of others. This can lead to people thinking that I don't care. It's not that I don't care so much, but... in a way I sort of don't. If someone isn't around and I have an amicable relationship with them, I don't really think about them. If our relationship is on the rocks (and I happen to care about them), however, I will analyze and mull like crazy and rehash emotion after emotion, misstep after misstep, trying to make sense of the whole thing. Harmony is incredibly important to me. Drama and discord needs to be solved, but if that is impossible, I want to run for the hills. (I don't mean arguing issues or debating; that's entirely different and something I tolerate well.)

Typically, though, I don't feel like I feel a whole bunch. I mean, sure, I feel love for my kids and my cats and my husband, but what makes me feel more than anything is good words in books, interesting ideas, music, films, some bird taking a bath in my bird bath- stuff that isn't an actual part of my actual life. But once I'm done experiencing the book or the film or whatever, the feeling also disappears and I forget it almost immediately.

So what is that? Fe or Fi? Anyone?

 

[walfin]

So what's your order then, walfin? Mine, according to cognitive processes is Ne Ti Fi Si.

Ti Fi Ne Se I think. (It reported INTP, so I suppose the order should be Ti Ne Fi Se, Ne and Fi scores were close).

Okay, so I'm trying to figure out how this is for me: My feelings are like this: typically, I have a hard time understanding the feelings of others. This can lead to people thinking that I don't care. It's not that I don't care so much, but... in a way I sort of don't. If someone isn't around and I have an amicable relationship with them, I don't really think about them. If our relationship is on the rocks (and I happen to care about them), however, I will analyze and mull like crazy and rehash emotion after emotion, misstep after misstep, trying to make sense of the whole thing. Harmony is incredibly important to me. Drama and discord needs to be solved, but if that is impossible, I want to run for the hills. (I don't mean arguing issues or debating; that's entirely different and something I tolerate well.)

Typically, though, I don't feel like I feel a whole bunch. I mean, sure, I feel love for my kids and my cats and my husband, but what makes me feel more than anything is good words in books, interesting ideas, music, films, some bird taking a bath in my bird bath- stuff that isn't an actual part of my actual life. But once I'm done experiencing the book or the film or whatever, the feeling also disappears and I forget it almost immediately.

So what is that? Fe or Fi? Anyone?

Fe Fi Fo Fum!

Sounds Fi-esque.

Fe is more like, feelings expressed.

This site resonates with me. No scientific basis though.

If we catalogued personality by the order of all 8 functions, there'd be 8! personality types.