INTP reaction to stress

[nedenom]

What do you think is the typical reaction to extreme stress (like when the shit hits the fan) for an INTP?

Is it likely, or even possible, for an INTP to temporarily (days - weeks) to slip into a different personality type, as a reaction to cope in stressful circumstances in daily life?

Personally, I get a bit more extraverted and perhaps more capable of taking more rapid decisions, without much further ado (not necessarily the best ones). Almost like on a high, a mild hypomania. Still without much feeling involved, I think. Maybe more towards ENTJ or even ESTJ? After prolonged periods though, I may feel quite exhausted...

 

[MissQuote]

Define extreme stress.

I either switch completely off, go into utter shirking of even acknowledgement that there might be responsibilities, or I take complete charge of the situation making quick emotionless decisions and telling everyone exactly what will be done and how.

The former when it is a situation that cannot be controlled at all and the later when it is a situation that, while it may be intense and difficult, it can be taken care of if someone would just see the obvious and not worry about the pain and just deal with the problem.

 

[Da Blob]

The stress reaction is pretty much a biologically-hardwired response to change in the environment. It involves some pretty cool drugs, that do have a toxic hangover effect. I guess that personality can be seen as the psychological manifestation of the biological stress reaction, since any change in the environment can be seen as a stressor.

I know quite a bit about the topic, having written a thesis about it, after reading the Encylopedia of Stress, most of the works of Richard Lazarus and a bunch of other stuff. I don't where to begin, so if you have any other questions, feel free to PM me

BTW- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Lazarus

 

[nedenom]

Define extreme stress..

Extreme stress as in particular stressful, prolonged situations out of the ordinary, perhaps life changing situations, maybe even life threatening. In daily life, that is. Not talking about just a bad day at work, neither falling out of an airplane without a parachute.

 

[nedenom]

@Da Blob,

I'd be particularly interested in your opinion of type falsification as described here: http://www.benziger.org/articlesIng/?p=32. Also with regards to my second question.

 

[MissQuote]

Okay. Thanks. That is the type of stress I thought you meant, not the day to day stuff neither the sudden terrible experience, but the difficult life situations that take time to get through. But having that defined makes the question easier to contemplate.

Would it be slipping into another personality? Or would it be more of the more dormant aspects of ones actual personality coming into play? Stuff that is always there but not utilized often.

I've wondered before if the sort of stress you mean can, if too prolonged, cause ones personality to change permanently, or perhaps not change but cause it to mature and become more defined. In the sense that learning how to deal with the world helps one to learn how to deal with themselves.

 

[Iximi]

In times of extreme stress I go into a state of 'mental paralysis'. During this period, time becomes distorted, and normal schedules completely dissolve. My default reaction to stress is to push it out by any means necessary. That is, for stress that is not immediate (such as almost falling of a cliff or being involved in a fight).

 

[Affinity]

Sometimes I go into DGAF mode, sometimes I go into fix it at all cost mode. Depends on the importance.

 

[nedenom]

I've wondered before if the sort of stress you mean can, if too prolonged, cause ones personality to change permanently, or perhaps not change but cause it to mature and become more defined. In the sense that learning how to deal with the world helps one to learn how to deal with themselves.

From a couple of personal experiences, I can't say they have changed my personality much permanently. Probably if too prolonged one will eventually hit a brick wall, maybe even go mad (not saying INTPs aren't a bit mad by default). If not, perhaps a little more prepared the next time, which I guess is maturation in a sense.

 

[GYX_Kid]

Sometimes I go into DGAF mode, sometimes I go into fix it at all cost mode. Depends on the importance.

DGAF about anything other than what needs to be fixed at all costs

and if that thing is in the past and unchangeable, self combustion

 

[travelnjones]

I like to destroy stuff. I recently got so mad I threw a mayo bottle so hard that it rained mayo all over the kitchen. It looked like the set of a porn movie. Then I stormed off, thought a minute and walked back in to clean up the kitchen.

I have three reactions, the above. Go for a drive mode and deal with it mode.

Deal with it mode usually comes when everyone else around me cant deal and I have to be the one that does. It is usually spotted with a few of the mayo throwing incidents above.

 

[Affinity]

DGAF about anything other than what needs to be fixed at all costs

and if that thing is in the past and unchangeable, self combustion

Haha, can't forget about self combustion mode.

 

[DetachedRetina]

Drink to excess and contemplate suicide. Occasionally smash my head into things during brief flashes of uncharacteristic anger. Become rigid and controlling, while at the same time emotionally needy. Cry a lot and yell a lot.

But that is during EXTREME duress.

Mostly I just reside in DGAF mode and never lose my temper. People close to me are shocked when I occasionally react in a most un-intp way.

 

[pjoa09]

Never was in a life threatening situation for a week. Unless if you consider it logically. Everyday you can potentially die.

When I make a big mistake and I undergo stress from that. My self-esteem depletes and I get flash thoughts of suicide and departing social life to be a poor hermit.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Drink to excess and contemplate suicide.

Under extreme duress I find this to be true in the reverse order.

It starts with an existential crisis usually triggered in a roundabout way by my own personal traits or behaviors, and the above ensues. The crisis itself need not be prolonged, perhaps a few hours.

It's important to note that I only experience this during an existential crisis, not under other types of stress such as academic or competition.

 

[MissQuote]

I find it interesting that the general consensus so far is either shut down completely or hyper focus on a mission to deal with it as practically as possible.

and the the other things are stuff like drinking and rage and self destruction in general(I also go to those places)

What I wanted to say as I read all of this was What The Fuck is wrong with us?!

But I felt weird about the "us" part, and also then I wondered about if that is just human nature in general, behaving in these ways, and then I remembered I posed a similar question - a question of how people cope- to another forum about a month ago, aaannnndd I questioned those people about a year ago about their types, sooooo I actually have some notes on all of this that I could go reference and start working into some sort of... something.

I should go take a look at that stuff and organise it and see if there is enough to start a chart!

 

[Pistoli]

Define extreme stress.

I either switch completely off, go into utter shirking of even acknowledgement that there might be responsibilities, or I take complete charge of the situation making quick emotionless decisions and telling everyone exactly what will be done and how.

The former when it is a situation that cannot be controlled at all and the later when it is a situation that, while it may be intense and difficult, it can be taken care of if someone would just see the obvious and not worry about the pain and just deal with the problem.

yep.

When I make a big mistake and I undergo stress from that. My self-esteem depletes and I get flash thoughts of suicide and departing social life to be a poor hermit.

yep.

 

[Polaris]

I tend to go into a shock-like state where I'm completely detached and on auto-pilot. The reaction comes afterwards, and yes: existential angst can hit pretty hard. Complete isolation often ensues, where intense self-scrutiny and doubt plays their wonderfully exaggerated mind-games.

I have been through this so many times now I can predict the pattern and therefore be more aware/better prepared. When the crap hits the fan I know exactly how I will non-react, and then later react rather violently. I can thus observe as an outsider and control/predict what happens to a certain extent.

 

[nedenom]

I find it interesting that the general consensus so far is either shut down completely or hyper focus on a mission to deal with it as practically as possible.

and the the other things are stuff like drinking and rage and self destruction in general(I also go to those places)

What I wanted to say as I read all of this was What The Fuck is wrong with us?!

I also can relate to most of the behaviour in the responses as well. It is interesting though, the shutdown vs. hyper focus states. Are they amplification of primary functions vs. transformation to a different type (or perhaps amplification of weaker functions)?

What leaves hope for the INTP is this:

Deal with it mode usually comes when everyone else around me cant deal and I have to be the one that does.

Could it be that INTPs rise to the occasion when other types give in?

But I felt weird about the "us" part, and also then I wondered about if that is just human nature in general, behaving in these ways, and then I remembered I posed a similar question - a question of how people cope- to another forum about a month ago, aaannnndd I questioned those people about a year ago about their types, sooooo I actually have some notes on all of this that I could go reference and start working into some sort of... something.

I should go take a look at that stuff and organise it and see if there is enough to start a chart!

Hope you get around to organize this, it'd be interesting to see. Perhaps other types could go into INTP mode under stress?

 

[thelithiumcat]

I was under the impression that extreme stress causes shadow functions to show themselves. I wouldn't say we become ENTJs, since I think that's too far removed from the INTP personality. With regards to shadow functions I think the most important one might be Ni or the Ni-Te dynamic because I for one find it easier to intuit only to a certain point and then make an effective plan of action for that day or up to the next week. I think that under high stress it's more likely we turn into a kind of... defensive, ruthless and perhaps emotionally unstable version of an INTJ? Following the shadow function idea, the positions of N and T, then S and F, disregarding function directions for the moment, are similar for both types. If we do turn more to the shadow functions then it makes sense that the overall function types would remain in similar places.

On the other hand, as I think an earlier poster said, under extreme stress time distorts, I feel rather trapped by the timescales involved and become trapped within myself. I will find some huge barrier which I eventually deal with by working around it and then go into short-term action plan mode. I think the fact that these modes are extremely draining is another indication of shadow functions.

 

[Da Blob]

@Da Blob,

I'd be particularly interested in your opinion of type falsification as described here: http://www.benziger.org/articlesIng/?p=32. Also with regards to my second question.

Paul Gilbert has introduced the concept of Arrested Defenses in his article, Evolutionary Approaches to Psychopathy: the role of natural defenses

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1440-1614.2001.00856.x/abstract

To paraphase, we are programmed biologically to respond to stress with perhaps a half dozen options, but society is full of scenarios, where the natural defensive options can not be acted out (one can't flee, one can't fight, one can't freeze etc.). This leaves people vulnerable for manipulation and feeling trapped. Virtually everyone has built a set of un-natural defenses to deal with this facet of socialization. Freudian Defense Mechanisms, Depression and certain aspects of personality can be seen as adaptive tactics in a repressive/oppressive environment.

Often one can't do what one Feels like doing in a stressful situation, so one has to Think about doing something else.

(This could prove useful http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=2350 )

It seems to me that stress is a derivative of society, not the individual, while the experience of FLOW is derived from the individual. I suppose that flow can be seen as a response to eustress. Benzinger's Type Falsification is a manifestion of Arrested Defenses. It is to be noted that the eight symptoms mentioned by Benzinger are highly correlated with the toxic effects of the neuro-chemicals released automatically as a biological response to threat/stress.

As far as the second question, concerning the Werewolf syndrome, if the change in personality is brought on by drugs or a particularly stressful situation, the toxic effects of the adrenaline etc. usually prevents the condition lasting for more than a few days. However, the associated Chameleon Effect is not so much brought upon by stress, but rather is a deliberate coping strategy and can last for days or weeks without many toxic side effects.

 

[Urraco]

Prime directive: GTFO.

The end.

 

[MEDICaustik]

I think naturally, I'm in sync with everyone else. I much prefer to observe than to participate in high stress situations.

Somebody said something interesting though that I find very true. That INTPs might be inclined to step up when nobody else can/does.

I can think of many times I have been the person to take charge of something, however resentful of it, because either nobody else took it, or the person who did was going to get in the way of doing it correctly.

INTPs are the Spocks of the world.

When Captain Kirk is in trouble, or off the ship, or whatever else it is that Kirk does, Spock is able and willing to take the captain's seat. And he's very effective. He doesn't have that .. Kirk-ness.. but he still makes a damn good captain. It's just that he would prefer not to be captain. Being in command distracts him from being Spock, you know, able to see the big picture without getting too invested in the emotional part.

 

[EvilBlitz]

Immolation of everyone and everything around me. Massive temper it flares very badly when someone keeps crossing one of my principles of which there are a few.(These generally involve some level of fairness, pulling your weight, not shitting on people, and consistency of applying your treatment of others)
Even having to deal with incompetent people sets it off(this is the main reason f**kn people grrr)

Deal with it mode usually comes when everyone else around me cant deal and I have to be the one that does. <- This is what causes a massive amount of stress. I constantly have to tie up other peoples loose ends and not receiving any thanks or even worse for me, not noticing I fixed their shit.

This all leaves me feeling burned, and if it wasn't for the fact I have to stay at work(work is were is happens 90% of the time, shop keepers do it to me too a lot, and my lame ass flatmate) Id prefer to just go home to my hermit hole and camp with depressive thoughts.(and/or smoke shit loads of weed and drink shit loads of bourbon)

The stress has gotten to levels before I have blacked out. Generally the stress never leaves me until I think the situation has been resolved well enough.

 

[nedenom]

Ok, I've discarded the idea of personality type shifts under stress and come to the conclusion now that the different mindset stems from an elevated activity in the more inferior functions. In order to stay in the so-called deal with it mode, considerable amounts of energy have to go into utilizing the Si function, whereas the Fe function could possibly get dragged along with it, maybe that could explain the unusual extraversion I'm experiencing. It is still a mystery to me where the elevated mood and all the energy comes from, could it be that Fe is capable of feeding oneself with energy as well? I'm not that experienced yet with categorising into functions, so please correct me if you think it's wrong.

Thus, stress will simply cause an amplification of one or more inferior functions. If that function is strong (matured) the outcome may be positive, if that function is weak (underdeveloped) the outcome may be more negative.

How does that sound?

 

[Wasp]

I like to destroy stuff. I recently got so mad I threw a mayo bottle so hard that it rained mayo all over the kitchen. It looked like the set of a porn movie. Then I stormed off, thought a minute and walked back in to clean up the kitchen.

I have three reactions, the above. Go for a drive mode and deal with it mode.

Deal with it mode usually comes when everyone else around me cant deal and I have to be the one that does. It is usually spotted with a few of the mayo throwing incidents above.

I tend to go on a rampage whenever a really stressful ever has occurred. I end up breaking things. It's really rare since the stress I encounter is a "someone has to lead" situation. I usually go into what I like to call ENTJ mode and take charge. I 'm in a Biotechnology class and my lab table is made up of five, save for one, useless people who do no work at all. When we were assigned together they immediately elected me team leader. My day in that class consists of me barking orders.
I do believe that an INTP would take charge when others around them fail to do so. Maybe INTP is among the more stronger types when it comes to stress?

 

[Da Blob]

Once again, stress is first a physiological response to change in the environment that has psychological side effects - aftereffects. The stress reaction is a function of the HPA axis located in the Reptilian and Old Mammalian portions of the brain associated with the S and F functions.

These are subject to discipline and conditioning, but it first could be useful to understand exactly how the process works before attempting intercession. Two easy tactics to dominate the Reptilian. Take the control of breathing away from it and consciously control each breath. Secondly, the Reptilian has no consciousness of Time, so tell it "Not now!" or at least count to ten before allowing it to impose its will, S and/or F generated behavior.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPA_axis

 

[nedenom]

Once again, stress is first a physiological response to change in the environment that has psychological side effects - aftereffects.

But then the psychological side effects will in turn generate psychological responses, and these are responses we, to a certain degree, can control. A high level of morning cortisol alone will not decide how to react.

The stress reaction is a function of the HPA axis located in the Reptilian and Old Mammalian portions of the brain associated with the S and F functions.

These are subject to discipline and conditioning, but it first could be useful to understand exactly how the process works before attempting intercession. Two easy tactics to dominate the Reptilian. Take the control of breathing away from it and consciously control each breath. Secondly, the Reptilian has no consciousness of Time, so tell it "Not now!" or at least count to ten before allowing it to impose its will, S and/or F generated behavior.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPA_axis

Understanding the brain physiologically is a life profession of its own. Do you think you can link S and F directly to the reptilian brain, whereas NT to a different brain portion (of names I cannot recall)?

 

[Dr. Freeman]

If it is long term stress, I may be prone to act angrily. If it is a short term event (earthquake, car speeding in my direction...) I tend to act calmly.

 

[Da Blob]

But then the psychological side effects will in turn generate psychological responses, and these are responses we, to a certain degree, can control. A high level of morning cortisol alone will not decide how to react.

Actually the process already works in reverse on demand whereby the physiological response is the effect/side effect of psychological manipulation. The response in the Amygdala is the same whether the stimulation is real or imagined. This creates the province within which some forms of psychological therapy can be very helpful, simply teaching people how to avoid becoming victims of their own imaginations. It also encompasses the realm of Self - discipline, training the Reptile and the Mammal to obey a new Master, Thought, as opposed to primitive sensations and emotions.


Understanding the brain physiologically is a life profession of its own. Do you think you can link S and F directly to the reptilian brain, whereas NT to a different brain portion (of names I cannot recall)?

This categorization is based upon stress response alone, so is incomplete and perhaps a bit inaccurate depending on the specific definitions being used, Jungian or not...

S > Reptilian brain
F > Endocrine system "seat of Emotions" Old Mammalian brain
N > Primate brain (right hemisphere, for the most part)
T > Human brain (left hemisphere mostly)

Although I really do not think that the work of evolutionary psychologists can be taken literally for methodological reasons, I do believe that field of study can provide some valuable analogies that can provide insight into the workings of the dynamic system that is a human mind. One does not usually think of a lizard exhibiting a personality trait, much less a human trait, but there is a great deal of similarity in a lizard's response to stress and a human's response to stress as generated by the reptilian portion of the human brain and so on and so forth.

I rather like this model because it provides some justification for the use of yoga and Zen as therapy. Even though I am a Christian, I prefer that which has been proven to work over some nice neat abstract theory that has yet to proven to be valid. I prefer the MBTI for that reason, as well. It works for some of us, at least. (Art Therapy needs to be on that list as well).One really can't argue against science once applied successfully, but upon science that can never be applied there is always an open season.

Perhaps of some interest (?)

The Art Of Stress
http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=6878

EDIT: for that matter if for some odd reason someone is really really interested in the topic of stress I posted my entire 33,000 word thesis on it in my facebook NOTES (in several segments of course...). Being a thesis, it is of course a rather 'dry' read...

https://www.facebook.com/note.php?saved&&note_id=420700599178

 

[Mia]

Moderate stress:functions better, more alert
Extreme stress: analyse situation, take it head on
Severe stress: complete shutdown, avoid situation

 

[Anamnesis]

A lot of people here seem to be getting angry when they're stressed. I must agree with what thelitiumcat was saying, that the shadow functions take over, it rings true with stuff I've read before. I tend to get emotional when stressed - happy, sad, a little nervous/anxious when I find myself feeling emotions I'm not used to, but unlike most people commenting here I rarely feel anger. People tell me I get mean and say whatever is on my mind which means everyone around gets to hear some honesty, something people don't want to hear, I find.

 

[ohrtonz]

I don't know. It usually seems everyone is in some sort of panic while I am like "ok? i'm just going to go do what i need to do"

I am not saying I don't get stressed out. I really do sometimes especially at work. I think maybe it needs to build up or have multiple stresses. Maybe even a stresser is gone but just the thought that it happened builds up with the whole situation that is life.

 

[BigApplePi]

Not thought out without more stress:

1. Emotional stress - I withdraw
2. Physical stress - I quiet down to fix it or if severe, seek help
3. Intellectual stress - I retry too many times but have learned to take a break
4. People stress - I get angry if they are smaller than I am or withdraw if larger
5. Animal stress - I think evil thoughts toward toward the animal
6. Chore stress - I try to wait until I want to and then enjoy doing it
7. Other stresses - Don't give me that. What other stresses dammit

Added:
8. Extreme stress - I break and can't recover. I come out a new person if I survive. Don't ask.

 

[EditorOne]

What about prolonged stress? A job you loathe going to every day but must because of family responsibilities, for instance.

I think we're all pretty much on the same page with any crisis. My response to the bellowing elephants, roaring lions and chickens dancing in every corner is "nothing is on fire, so we can figure this out." And I was already in charge, so I didn't have to take charge. And I'd also been in charge when things were on fire, for real, so I had it covered.

Prolonged, unavoidable stress is the real soul-killer, I think. And it need not be a high-profile thing, it can be low-grade and chronic. We go through some of that just by having minority personality preferences compared to the rest of the world. A lot of Amish kids go through the same thing. The worst stress seems to be not from things like competition, as noted by one poster. It seems to come from some form or another of "bad fit" between a person and an unavoidable environment.

I'm not sure it's easy to pinpoint effects, although The Blob has really offered some insights into the process that's taking place. I am sure that prolonged stress is corrosive and will, to carry the image forward, change you just as corrosion changes steel. All your behaviors after prolonged stress need to be examined to see if they don't reveal some attempt to escape, whether through rage, anti-social behavior, drugs, alcohol, etc.

Nonsequitor: It is useful occasional to remind ourselves that we call our traits "personality preferences." A situation that forces you out of your preferred trait is definitely a source of stress. Momentarily it's no big deal, like Spock taking over the bridge. Over a long haul, something that forces you to become someone you're not comfortable with is going to take a toll on your happiness.

 

[BigApplePi]

I took a job in computer programming. Stayed for fifteen years. Was stressed by what felt like the arbitrariness of management but never complained. It was part of the job. The sixteenth year the company moved everyone to technical support in a sales office. This proved to be a nightmare. Competent technicians were expected to move into sales. Not me. No way. I experienced constant anxiety they would "out me" for not fitting in. I didn't fit in, but hid it best I could. I never showed my feelings to anyone. Not even outside girlfriends. I had a prestige job. This reaction to stress is just made for an INTP. I certainly knew (to myself) what my feelings were. As the years passed I had one goal: thirty years and I could retire. I made it but was miserable most of the time. Is that LONG enuf for long-term stress?

Looking back, did this break my spirit? I really don' t know. Don't think so. Then it was depressing. Today, mixed feelings. On one hand I feel I wasted all those years; on the other I learned a lot about socializing and those OTHER temperament types which I didn't know I had learned at the time. The experience has value today, but I can't live my life over.

 

[chatvite]

INTPs usually feel overwhelmed and misunderstood when under stress. In times of great stress, they may show out-of-proportion eruptions of emotion. It's like a volcano eruption of lava....it happens, can't be stopped, then it's over. This comes from introverted thinking in the dominant and extroverted feeling in the inferior. F is the least developed facet in INTPs.

 

[chatvite]

To me, it's like a reboot.

 

[cerebedlam]

This given INTP has always responded to extreme stress by self-medicating...But, over the last fifteen months, much effort has been made to rely on heavy bouts of exercise and meditation to deal with it. I think I'm a healthier dude for the shift...And, I know that I'm 55 pounds lighter...So, that's a big plus.

 

[skip]

I couldn't switch over to another personality type for weeks, even a few days would stress me out even more.

I just go for a run.

 

[The Gopher]

Some people can't work under stress. I only work under stress.

 

[TriflinThomas]

Typical shadow functions (SJ) I start doing what I know works and has worked in the past (SJ). I kill all emotions until the stressor has passed so that I can devote more mental/physical effort towards getting rid of the stressor. I become more introverted, and sometimes depressed.