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INTP appearance (V.I.)

thiagomdo

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I know five INTPs here where a live. I was looking at their eyes and noticed that they all have dark circles. I have this too. In addition, the fictional characters "L" (Death Note) and "Shikamaru" (Naruto), who are undeniably INTP, are ilustrated with this too. Is this a general characteristic of the INTPs, i mean, do you have it?

Watch this and note in their eyes:
YouTube- INTP
YouTube- I am INTP
YouTube- INTP
YouTube- INTP 5

I´m trying to do some research on VI (visual identification) theory
 

Fukyo

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V.I? Is this in any way related to the Visual Identification in Socionics? I remember reading this same thing about the circles under eyes in Wikisocion ILI(INTp) description.

Some INTPs have them, sure. Some don't. The same probably goes for other types. I don't see any significant correlation. After all dark circles under someone's eyes can be a product of many things (lack of sleep, illness, too much time at the computer, etc) all of which can be connected to other types & circumstances as well.

I also find the concept of V.I. to rather suspicious, if not even bs.
 

Van

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Right now, yes, but I only just woke up.
I wonder what makes people decide to draw characters with dark circles under the eyes.
 
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I have darker skin around my eyes, which often makes me look tired, but I've always had them and it's because of how the skin is or something. It doesn't stand out too much, though.
 

thiagomdo

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I also find the concept of V.I. to rather suspicious, if not even bs.

But, the dark circles are present all the time in the INTPs I know.

I don´t know if I'm exaggerating. But after gradually persuade all my colleagues (perhaps 60 ~ 70 people) to do the MBTI test, and a few friends and family, and observe them, recently, I have the impression that certain physical traits are repeated with larger frequently in certain types...

Anyway, it would be useful, to identify people visually.
http://www.socionics.com/advan/vi/vi.htm


_
 

The Frood

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Myself and 2 other INTP's i know have dark circles around the eyes.
 

Cogwulf

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I have quite dark circles under my eyes and always have had them, but I'm fairly certain that in nearly all people they are due to lifestyle not genes. Mine have been much worse recently, likely due to a combination of stress, fatigue, high caffeine intake and little sunlight.
The reasons they may be seen in the majority of INTPs are probably a long time spent reading or at a computer, little time spent outside, and possibly a lack of physical exercise. Mine certainly improved last year, during that time I was cycling to work every day and was a lot more relaxed than I had been for a long time, and also at both home and at work I spent most of my time sat in front of a large window
 

thiagomdo

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That's right. Anyway, it is likely that all INTPs have similar habits, since child, creating in them certain physical aspects that are similar, such as the constant presence of dark circles.

So I pick up this piece of information and consider it as a very likely evidence, and along with another very likely evidences and, voilà, maybe you can learn to visually identify the types.

YouTube- death note-L smile

For example, another feature that I see in INTPs, is that most of the time they are with their backs slightly arched forward, both genders.

_
 

Fukyo

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But, the dark circles are present all the time in the INTPs I know.

I don´t know if I'm exaggerating. But after gradually persuade all my colleagues (perhaps 60 ~ 70 people) to do the MBTI test, and a few friends and family, and observe them, recently, I have the impression that certain physical traits are repeated with larger frequently in certain types...

Anyway, it would be useful, to identify people visually.
http://www.socionics.com/advan/vi/vi.htm

All of these traits can be occurring completely accidentally though. There is no way to know this for sure unless a large chunk of INTP or any other population is tested and concrete data compiled to see if there really is a large representation of certain physical traits.

While certain mannerisms, body posture and such (and this is still relative, because despite all INTPs sharing similarities, there's still a lot of variety in one type and habits aren't always tied to type, in fact they can result from many things, I think) may be indicative of type, inborn psychical appearance hardly is, in my opinion.

In short, typing people based on V.I. and mannerisms alone is probably too unreliable to expect accurate results.

(Also, I don't think fictional characters provide too good type examples.)
 

thiagomdo

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Do you have hair on the palms of your hands?
:rolleyes:

just kidding
 

Adymus

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Da Blob

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On a related note it may well be possible to do a partial categorization of personalty type based upon facial expressions including the eyes. It involves the Approach-Withdrawal pattern exhibited in faces. However, i do not know of anyone that has pursued this avenue of research as of yet...

anyway a couple of links about hemifacial Approach - Withdrawal patterns...

http://www-psych.stanford.edu/~knutson/ans/davidson90.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12240668 (just abstract)

BTW - the world's expert on facial expressions is a person by the name of Paul Ekman, he's done some fantastic stuff, they even made a TV program based on his work, called "Lie to Me"...
 

thiagomdo

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All of these traits can be occurring completely accidentally though. There is no way to know this for sure unless a large chunk of INTP or any other population is tested and concrete data compiled to see if there really is a large representation of certain physical traits.

While certain mannerisms, body posture and such (and this is still relative, because despite all INTPs sharing similarities, there's still a lot of variety in one type and habits aren't always tied to type, in fact they can result from many things, I think) may be indicative of type, inborn psychical appearance hardly is, in my opinion.

In short, typing people based on V.I. and mannerisms alone is probably too unreliable to expect accurate results.

(Also, I don't think fictional characters provide too good type examples.)


You are right. Actually it is really very difficult. But there may be a joint observable, which also involves behavior, that makes one almost sure about the type of a person. How have some researchers saying it is possible, though I also be inclined to discredit this hypothesis, I want to test it by myself, like a hobby. So my expectation was to see many people replying about the dark circles and see whether it is a constant feature in the eyes of INTPs or not. But it seems this matter is not an interesting one.
 

Mints

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I have also noticed that, both the bags and the slouched position. It is most likely a result form habits? Like beign too much time on the computer or staying up late (both are resultts of this, I believe). Lack of propper exercise can also be added.
 

thiagomdo

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Da Blob

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Here's a quote from one of my posts on a thread that seems to be relevant to this discussion...
The revenge of the Right Brain
http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=2113

The recent research has expanded in two directions. The list of easily recognized facial expressions has been lengthened and the research of cerebral hemispheric specialization has spun off investigations of asymmetrical facial expression. Perhaps, the most intriguing concept revealed by these two branches of research is that human facial expressions involve not just two areas of the face, eyes and mouth, but rather four areas; the left and right hemifaces, which each can be divided into the eye and mouth areas.

Of course, communication involves, at least, two people, so that analysis of nonverbal communication, in the form of facial expressions, requires observations and explanations for changes in eight facial areas.

Needless to say, the expansion the list of research verified recognizable facial expressions could be a never-ending process. There are hundreds of words used to describe human nonverbal behavior and many of them have corresponding facial expressions. Words such as concern, affectionate, antagonistic, domineering, submissive and passive will undoubtedly be linked to particular configurations of facial muscles, at some point of time.

The research into the difference of facial expressions displayed on the right and the left hemifaces has uncovered an interesting relationship. The right hemiface displays expressions associated with approach behaviors (Extroversion?), while the left hemiface displays expressions associated with withdrawal behaviors (Introversion?) (Davidson, Saron, Senulis Ekman, & Friesen, 2006). It almost seems as if the mechanism responsible for the flight or fight response is also responsible to some degree for hemifacial orientations.

It has been known for some time that the right hemisphere of the brain is the hemisphere where most emotional processing occurs (Feeling?), while the left hemisphere processes most verbal and language information (Thinking?) (Root, Kinsbourne & Wong, 2006). Verbal abilities might develop from the nonverbal approach, as, perhaps, the neurological structure that causes this hemifacial distinction is also responsible for verbal behavior as language can be seen as ‘remote’ approach behavior. Research dealing with the facial expression of infants supports this hypothesis. Adult facial expressions are more apparent on the left hemiface, because in the mature brain the right cerebral hemisphere processes emotional data.
 

thiagomdo

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I have also noticed that, both the bags and the slouched position. It is most likely a result form habits? Like beign too much time on the computer or staying up late (both are resultts of this, I believe). Lack of propper exercise can also be added.

This is what I think. Being too much time on the computer or staying up late - maybe more than 90% of us (INTPs) have these habits. So, maybe the same amount will have dark circles (the effect of the habit). You could put these kinds of information into a process of inductive logic that would reveal, almost certainly, the kind of the person.
 

Moocow

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I've always had very large, dark, peculiar circles under my eyes and have been dealing with "you need to sleep more" and even "did you get in a fight or something?" for my entire life.
That's really weird.
 

Darby

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I have slightly dark circles, but I do believe that is from lack of sleep, but I don't think that's the only reason someone can have it. Although I regularly get the "did you sleep enough, I have a friend who sometimes really does look like he got punched in the eye regularly
 

RubberDucky451

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INTPs have a tendency to stare into space. I've seen other personalities look down or around but not with the thoughtful gaze INTPs have.
 

Kuu

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This is what I think. Being too much time on the computer or staying up late - maybe more than 90% of us (INTPs) have these habits. So, maybe the same amount will have dark circles (the effect of the habit). You could put these kinds of information into a process of inductive logic that would reveal, almost certainly, the kind of the person.

And other types don't do this?

Also, dark circles can be inherited and depend on thin/pale skin and a lot of other various conditions completely unrelated to behavior.

Some people rarely ever get dark circles even if they seldom sleep. Others get them fairly easily even if they're not chronic insomniacs...

All in all I think visual/behavioral cues can point you in the right direction, but not allow you to get fine, detailed results... (and perhaps what little it helps is pretty obvious anyway).
 

Cogwulf

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The research into the difference of facial expressions displayed on the right and the left hemifaces has uncovered an interesting relationship. The right hemiface displays expressions associated with approach behaviors (Extroversion?), while the left hemiface displays expressions associated with withdrawal behaviors (Introversion?) (Davidson, Saron, Senulis Ekman, & Friesen, 2006). It almost seems as if the mechanism responsible for the flight or fight response is also responsible to some degree for hemifacial orientations.

This is interesting, I'm assuming that the left hemiface means -my- left, I've got much more control over the muscles on the left side of my face than the right.
 

lightspeed

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I know five INTPs here where a live. I was looking at their eyes and noticed that they all have dark circles. I have this too. In addition, the fictional characters "L" (Death Note) and "Shikamaru" (Naruto), who are undeniably INTP, are ilustrated with this too. Is this a general characteristic of the INTPs, i mean, do you have it?



I´m trying to do some research on VI (visual identification) theory

Funny you note the eyes. I researched those same exact videos, and noted the same thing. Also, that their eyes dart around, as if accessing a remote word bank, or accessing a memory. I also have dark circles around my eyes.
 

Causeless

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I would like to begin by clarifying I have nothing useful to say.

I would then like to finish by stating that the girl with the English accent is REALLY cute. O.o
 

thiagomdo

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And other types don't do this?

Also, dark circles can be inherited and depend on thin/pale skin and a lot of other various conditions completely unrelated to behavior.

Some people rarely ever get dark circles even if they seldom sleep. Others get them fairly easily even if they're not chronic insomniacs...

All in all I think visual/behavioral cues can point you in the right direction, but not allow you to get fine, detailed results... (and perhaps what little it helps is pretty obvious anyway).

It seems until now that everyone here has constantly dark circles. This is a small piece of the puzzle. Now we have to add other features.

INTPs have a tendency to stare into space. I've seen other personalities look down or around but not with the thoughtful gaze INTPs have.

I'm the same. When someone wants to imitate my gestures to do comedy, that person always exaggerate a gesture like that, making others in the room find it funny. And I also notice this clearly in an INTP colleague who sits next to me. Usually with hand on chin supporting the head when seated.
 

EditorOne

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I have them too. I also have fairly chronic sinus problems, which might possibly have more to do with these dark circles than anything else does.

Sometimes the search for meaning in patterns doesn't go to good places. What if we all had blond hair and blue eyes? Eek. We're dealing with genetics, linked genes, and personality traits that may or may not be solely derived from genes. Too many variables to correlate a select few, perhaps? As noted, lifestyles producing the kind of fatigue that leads to bruising under the eyes isn't limited to INTPs.
 

shoeless

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i don't honestly know if i do or not... i just have fairly big eyes that seem smaller because they're always half-closed (not really anything i can help), unless i get really into telling a story, in which case they get awkwardly big.

my eyes kinda suck.

anyone who's seen my videos from the youtube thread want to testify to this? mainly whether i have dark circles or not, because i honestly don't know what constitutes "dark circles"... i know them when i see them i guess, but i just can't decide for myself.
 

Mints

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This is what I think. Being too much time on the computer or staying up late - maybe more than 90% of us (INTPs) have these habits. So, maybe the same amount will have dark circles (the effect of the habit). You could put these kinds of information into a process of inductive logic that would reveal, almost certainly, the kind of the person.

Of course. This reminds me of a book I once read, How to read people. It argumented how our physical characterisitcs can reveal a lot of our preferences, pesonalities, traits, and, in general, our way to communicate with people. Using this, if I see a person with a slouched position and eye bags, I can say that he/she has certain habits that make those characteristic appear, such as staing up late, using too much a computer, lack of exercise, not too much in sunlight (for whatever reason (hobby, work...),etc; which also makes me wonder that persons preferences; and depending on the result I get I may have a sketch of that person´s pesonality; which at the same time will make me ´predict´ that person and his behaviour/ways of communicattion.


(Hooray for run-on sentences.)
 

thiagomdo

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Today I was watching people, trying to identify some INTP between them. I was quite frustrated because I noticed that visual identification is much more difficult than I expected, mainly because most people is constantly in a state of drowsiness, very subdued and without expression. I just identified a person with features similar to those of an ENTJ, co-worker.
 

Thread Killer

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I notice visual similarities between INTPs. I do, indeed, have dark circles under the eyes. I also have horrendous posture which seems somewhat normal among INTPs I have seen. Spotted an INTP who hada thing for me in one of my classes this last semester. Had my same kind of gaze, hair. He looked so much like me and was also INTP.

I think it depends on variants or subtypes if you will, not to get too socionics on you guys.
 

Xel

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The dark rings under my eyes are due to lack of sleep more than anything else. Sometimes I like them, many times I don't. Do they go away if you get more sleep? I have had them for so long I don't know. My back has a natural slight hunch so I have bad posture by nature. It annoys me as well though i notice it gets better if I work out for several weeks.
 

shoeless

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so i definitely have the circles. or at least this morning i do. and i got plenty of sleep, so i dunno.
 

Cavallier

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I have also noticed that, both the bags and the slouched position. It is most likely a result form habits? Like begin too much time on the computer or staying up late (both are results of this, I believe). Lack of proper exercise can also be added.

or wanting to avoid people while in public thus hunching the shoulders as a defense mechanism. Several people have pointed this out as a common trait among introverts.

@Banana Mango: Pommy? *googles* Ah, I see. This forum has at least been an education in slang.

Edit: Am I the only one who fixes the grammar mistakes in the comments I quote?
 

Trebuchet

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I have dark circles too, but potassium helps. Eat more bananas. It doesn't make them go away but they fade some. I am also super light-skinned, so that accentuates it.
 

Mints

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or wanting to avoid people while in public thus hunching the shoulders as a defense mechanism. Several people have pointed this out as a common trait among introverts.

@Banana Mango: Pommy? *googles* Ah, I see. This forum has at least been an education in slang.

Edit: Am I the only one who fixes the grammar mistakes in the comments I quote?

Not necesarily. Although it could be a common trait, as you say, I believe otherwise. Most INTP (I base what I am about to say on what I have seen & I do) have a special look on their eyes. Would not know how to describe it, but the best I can reach would be bored, melancholic, penetrating-but-distant. This commonly makes people avoid the INTP who I know, and have even been called emo because of their eyes and how carelessly they dress. Hunching the shoulders, therefore, would not be completely necesary to them. Rather, it would be a result from the habits I mentioned earlier.

Also, why defensive mechanism? I find 'methods for avoiding people' better (although longer and somewaht redundant)...
 

Starfruit M.E.

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Well... does anyone here NOT have dark circles under the eyes?

My personal theory is that continued patterns cause permanent effects... such as wrinkles, or dark circles. People with similar patterns have similar effects. But I don't think that from birth you could immediately tell anything.
 

bluesquid

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wander into a nursing home and steal a tube of preperation h. apply to dark spots as needed.
 

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I think I've had dark circles from very early on. When I was in second grade, my teacher asked me if I had been punched in the nose (nasty thing to say to a seven year old; I'm not sure if I have forgiven her yet). I've always been terribly pale as well.

wander into a nursing home and steal a tube of preperation h. apply to dark spots as needed.

I hope you stole a new tube. Some people may not get enough on during that first application and may have to reapply.
 

juturna

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I'm not pale so my circles aren't as obvious but they are definitely there. People always ask why I look so tired all the time.

I hope you stole a new tube. Some people may not get enough on during that first application and may have to reapply.

Ew hahahahhahahhahaha.
 

chaomon

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I have dark circles because of lack of sleep. My hair is messy (I love the way it is), when you look at me probably you'll think I'm sick bcoz I am pale, that's why when I dont feel attending a class all I have to do is cough and say I'm dizzy then go to clinic! & I am scary I think? I have a long beautiful hair its color is black and brown, my friends said that I look like sadako when I cover my face w/ my hair.
23566_1374360235610_1129932251_31140824_7962959_n.jpg


I have a lots of scary pics. sometimes I get scared by it.
 

JUN

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Uhhh... 9 out of 10 people have dark circles.

Draw your own conclusions.
 

Mondorius

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I've also had the chronic circles for as long as I can remember.

I also have super light skin for as long as I can remember, despite spending most of my childhood outside, I could never get a tan.
 

metis

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I've had dark rings under my eyes as long as I can remember. An ex once made be get my iron tested to make sure I was healthy. At the time I was 17 and very healthy, and never on the computer. Another high school story, after I got in a fight, someone thought I had received black eyes, but my face was never hit. It's just the way my eyes are.

Maybe now you should be asking to find INTP's who don't have this trait.
 

harperfan7

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I have them. Mine are purplish and almost look like bruises. Apparently in middle school it was so bad that people asked if I was wearing maskara.
 

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Wow, I had to read all that just to be sure this hasn't been mentioned already.

I've found that dark rings under one's eyes is like a kind of blush, if you're really unhappy/angry/sad and allow the expression to show in your eyes (I often forget I have a face) it will show up very quickly, and being a somewhat dour person I've almost always got some degree of it, but only about a month ago a co-worker of mine (very confident/charismatic extrovert) suffered the tragic loss of a friend and his eyes were just, terrifying.

He recovered quickly, as they do.

Oh and has anyone else been accused of being stoned because of bloodshot eyes caused by hayfever? Being an INTP probably didn't help either.
 

EyeSeeCold

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Oh and has anyone else been accused of being stoned because of bloodshot eyes caused by hayfever? Being an INTP probably didn't help either.
You just don't know...
 

SilentChaos

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...............

On a less scientific note (I’m not sure if I read all the comments so I don’t know if this has been mentioned) I was watching some of the so called intp videos on the internet; they all seem really cold, I have never described someone as cold before but that is the only way I can describe it, it’s like watching robots that are covered in a thin layer of human skin. It’s just empty. I was horrified; I sincerely hope I don’t look like that.
 

EyeSeeCold

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I gots the dark circles as well, but it is surely a result of my lifestyle and not a genetic predisposition.
Maybe you have a genetic disposition to live a certain lifestyle?
 
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