INTP and INFP

[Staywhatyouare]

I've recently been talking to a girl who went to my high school online, and I think she may be an INFP. I'm not 100% about the "F", but that's what I'm guessing. (i've mentioned the test to her a couple of times and she just complains about how long it is....)

But anyways, we've been talking and we have a lot of things in common, possibly more than I've had in common with any girl I've ever been interested in. She seems to be interested in at least friendship as she'll often intitate the conversations online, and brought up the idea of us hanging out the next time I'm home. We have great conversations, she seems to have a similiar sense of humor to me, and shes just a really interesting girl in general. To top it off she's really cute, pretty much my ideal type of girl. A little on the indie artsy side, but not to the point where its a bad thing.

The problem is that I'm having a hard time reading whether or not she's interested in a pure friendship or possibly something more. She seems to be very moody( part of why I think she's an "F"), and I'm starting getting the feeling she's been in some pretty bad relationships and may have trust issues or something.

So my question is what's the best way to deal with an INFP that I'm very interested in? I'm trying to keep things straightforward and platonic for a couple of reasons. The 1st being that we've really only been talking online and have only actually hung out on one occasion, the 2nd being that I generally tend to deal with these situations slowly. Should I be aggressive in making it known that i'm very interested in her, or should I wait until I get a chance to see in her person? I'm also having issues getting her to open up...

Any advice is appreciated, anyone have experiences with an INFP?

 

[Latro]

You've hung out once IRL, so she's reasonably comfortable with that. Do that a few more times, hanging out as friends, and attempt to direct conversation into a more-than-platonic setup as best you can (this can be as simple as adjusting your body language while conversing in the same way as you normally would; this is also a good reason to try to hang out more IRL, since it's very hard to convey these things subtly via text). If she appears to reciprocate, you can eventually start calling these hangouts dates and treat them as such (romantic contact etc.); if not, you've got yourself an RL friend who just so happens to be female. "Epic win/win" is how I'd describe this. The only way this could be a loss is if she doesn't reciprocate and then it gets so awkward that she doesn't feel comfortable seeing you again, which is 1. not likely and 2. would tell you something about her character anyway.

By the way, I'd say this about anyone of any type, though most especially about people who are IXXX and especially IXXP (I's with E's, especially EXXJs, can generally expect most of the "hey let's go do X" to come from the E, I think).

One thing though: DO NOT, absolutely do not, have a conversation where you "confess how you feel" directly. That will not end well, because even if she does feel the same way, it's REALLY awkward for the other person. Do allow her to know how you feel, but do it indirectly, to avoid awkwardness. You probably already know this but having made this mistake before myself, I feel a need to reiterate it.

 

[JoeJoe]

My suggestion of books for you to read:

1) The Art of SpeedReading People
might give you some inclinations to what type she is without her having to do the test.

2) Just your type
gives advice on how to deal with each type in a relationship. If you want I could already type the part about INTP/INFP or a part of that part.

 

[Felan]

I used to put off asking out till I knew she was interested. I've come to find that its not only a huge drain on my peace and harmony, its counter-productive. Waiting that long tends to send a signal to them that you aren't interested. So unless the friendship is more important than a potential romantic relationship, ask her out.

 

[Staywhatyouare]

My suggestion of books for you to read:

1) The Art of SpeedReading People
might give you some inclinations to what type she is without her having to do the test.

2) Just your type
gives advice on how to deal with each type in a relationship. If you want I could already type the part about INTP/INFP or a part of that part.

I'll look into both of those books, and I'd definitely appreciate it if you would be willing to type some or all of that up for me

 

[Latro]

I used to put off asking out till I knew she was interested. I've come to find that its not only a huge drain on my peace and harmony, its counter-productive. Waiting that long tends to send a signal to them that you aren't interested. So unless the friendship is more important than a potential romantic relationship, ask her out.

And if it is, do what I said anyway. Done right, you either get a date or hang out with a friend, and never have to explicitly reveal your intentions.

 

[Staywhatyouare]

I used to put off asking out till I knew she was interested. I've come to find that its not only a huge drain on my peace and harmony, its counter-productive. Waiting that long tends to send a signal to them that you aren't interested. So unless the friendship is more important than a potential romantic relationship, ask her out.

Yeah, I feel like that's what I've always done. I'd love to ask her out ASAP, and as I said she even brought up the idea of us hanging out, but there's no opportunity for another month. So what do I do in between now and then in terms of our conversations online?

 

[Latro]

Yeah, I feel like that's what I've always done. I'd love to ask her out ASAP, and as I said she even brought up the idea of us hanging out, but there's no opportunity for another month. So what do I do in between now and then in terms of our conversations online?

...I honestly don't know of anything you can do online that wouldn't have a high potential of creating awkwardness. Maybe use a webcam, or at least voice chat?

 

[Staywhatyouare]

You've hung out once IRL, so she's reasonably comfortable with that. Do that a few more times, hanging out as friends, and attempt to direct conversation into a more-than-platonic setup as best you can (this can be as simple as adjusting your body language while conversing in the same way as you normally would; this is also a good reason to try to hang out more IRL, since it's very hard to convey these things subtly via text). If she appears to reciprocate, you can eventually start calling these hangouts dates and treat them as such (romantic contact etc.); if not, you've got yourself an RL friend who just so happens to be female. "Epic win/win" is how I'd describe this. The only way this could be a loss is if she doesn't reciprocate and then it gets so awkward that she doesn't feel comfortable seeing you again, which is 1. not likely and 2. would tell you something about her character anyway.

By the way, I'd say this about anyone of any type, though most especially about people who are IXXX and especially IXXP (I's with E's, especially EXXJs, can generally expect most of the "hey let's go do X" to come from the E, I think).

One thing though: DO NOT, absolutely do not, have a conversation where you "confess how you feel" directly. That will not end well, because even if she does feel the same way, it's REALLY awkward for the other person. Do allow her to know how you feel, but do it indirectly, to avoid awkwardness. You probably already know this but having made this mistake before myself, I feel a need to reiterate it.

I guess I should clarify. When I said we've hung out once IRL, it wasn't one on one or anything. I was actually at lunch with a mutual friend and that's how we met. After that I bumped into her the next day, and ever since then we've just been talking online.

Haha and yeah, I've ruined probably 3 or 4 relationships with the whole confession thing so I think I've learned my lesson.

 

[Staywhatyouare]

...I honestly don't know of anything you can do online that wouldn't have a high potential of creating awkwardness. Maybe use a webcam, or at least voice chat?

Yeah that's what sucks about this situation. I finally find a girl that I'm seriously interested in and it comes at possibly the worst time ever. I want to keep talking to her online cause I don't want her to think I'm not interested, but there's really only so much a relationship can develop online. Video chat could be an option...but I think that would be a little awkward until we get to know each other better. I was sort of thinking that if I get her number and we started texting that might be at least a little better than talking on instant messenger?

 

[JoeJoe]

OK, swya, It's a bit late now, I'll copy it tomorrow. (or rather, later on, today)

 

[Latro]

Yeah that's what sucks about this situation. I finally find a girl that I'm seriously interested in and it comes at possibly the worst time ever. I want to keep talking to her online cause I don't want her to think I'm not interested, but there's really only so much a relationship can develop online. Video chat could be an option...but I think that would be a little awkward until we get to know each other better. I was sort of thinking that if I get her number and we started texting that might be at least a little better than talking on instant messenger?

Could be a bit of an improvement. You really aren't in an ideal situation though

Unrelated: I wish I were interested in someone at the moment so I could actually try to put some of my theories into effect (I never have; all of my theories are either purely theoretical or derived from others' experiences) and see if they actually hold. I haven't been interested in anyone since 2007, though, and I was extremely naive at that time (this was the time when I confessed how I felt; granted I had already given up on the prospect of this actually going anywhere and just wanted some closure after being crazy about a girl for 8 months, so I wasn't THAT naive, but I was still pretty naive).

Sorry to turn this to myself, just wanted to say that, partly so you know to take my advice with over 9000 grains of salt.

 

[Staywhatyouare]

Could be a bit of an improvement. You really aren't in an ideal situation though

Blah, yeah i know. I think I'll be fine as long as she doesn't lose interest within the next month, because then I'll have an opportunity to take her out, and then after that she'll be going to college like 20 minutes away from me..(another reason why i'm so interested...i'm really hopeful this could eventually turn into a serious thing at some point..)

 

[Felan]

I tend to obsess and play out a thousand romantic scenarios if I delay overly much. If I am genuinely that attracted to them I never really shake it off, so the friendship is an unlikely benefit to me. It's a failing on my part I suppose, but since I have started asking out sooner than later, I have (perhaps selfishly) had far greater piece of mind. Additionally avoiding the mental investment of the imagined scenarios allows for the smoother request of the date and fewer unreasonable expectations after dating starts.

Trying not to think on something, especially something as dreamy as potential love, is essentially impossible. So its a strategy that has worked for me. Delaying such makes the request for a date exceedingly clumsy on my part. Admittedly the distance is complication.

I am far from skilled in this arena and I'm sure Latro offers better guidance.

 

[Latro]

I am far from skilled in this arena and I'm sure Latro offers better guidance.

You have more experience than I do. I haven't even asked anyone out before. All I have is theory.

 

[Felan]

You have more experience than I do. I haven't even asked anyone out before. All I have is theory.

Even my experience feels theoretical. So lets call it even.

 

[fullerene]

One thing though: DO NOT, absolutely do not, have a conversation where you "confess how you feel" directly. That will not end well, because even if she does feel the same way, it's REALLY awkward for the other person. Do allow her to know how you feel, but do it indirectly, to avoid awkwardness. You probably already know this but having made this mistake before myself, I feel a need to reiterate it.

I would rephrase this. "Do not have a conversation where you 'confess how you feel' directly yet." It's got to come eventually, but there's no reason to rush that.

I'm dating an INFP now (depending on your definition. We live on opposite sides of the country, so we obviously don't hang out a lot.... but I have gone out to visit, and we got along fantastically, etc. Most likely when I graduate from college and move out of my house, we'll just move in together and that'll be that. Neither of us cares too much for social expectations or "signs we might be sending." We're both aiming to be together forever, though)... so I've talked to her about all her past relationships and dating habits and stuff. The one thing I can say is that as long as you're displaying interest, there's absolutely no "rush". Mine, at least, has held onto crushes quietly for nearly full decades, hanging out whenever possible, but never initiating anything.

The other thing that I can say as a "probably" is that she's unlikely to be overwhelmed by how much you like her. However, it's more likely that the first time you show interest, she might let all her thoughts and feelings loose, and you might find yourself overwhelmed by her level of attraction instead. So my advice would be not to say anything directly until you're quite sure that you won't run away or get scared if she says something along the lines of "I've been having fantasies about bearing your children for the last 6 months!" That's just sort of how INFPs (both guys and girls) are; they're used to scaring people away by their quick, intense emotions too.


The other reason I'd say "take it easy" is because there's very little difference between friendship and relationship. Their best friends are the people they connect with on the worldview level, and really share themselves fully with and not get laughed at or attacked, and their ideal relationship is someone who accepts these things and shares them back. Similarly to how the key to an INTPs emotions is to make the environment a safe place to be shared, INFPs thrive on safe bonds of honest interaction. Even if she only thinks of you as a friend, by hanging out regularly and increasing that trust/safety-bond, you might find that you're in a relationship before you know it.

Eventually, however, it's extremely likely that you will have to make the first move, and initiate the open relationship. They're the only type that I consider more passive than ours, and with the gender roles playing into it (which they're just as uncomfortable with as we are, but play along with them because they've probably chased away many people by ignoring them, too), there's little chance that she'll truly initiate it. I think that you can expect to see signs of interest, though, as she'll go out of her way to show them. Just keep your eyes open. I was lucky, in that my INFP (back when we were just good friends talking online, who had never met each other) typed her feelings often, but just didn't hit enter, and accidentally slipped once . That accelerated things quite a bit, you can imagine... but it equally could have ended in disaster, if I wasn't interested too. In general, I do not think you have anything to worry about, if there's truly no opportunity to get together for a month. If she has a crush already, it will not die before then.

Also: you may want to go to personalitycafe.com or something like that. It was founded and grew during a period when globalchatter (the INFP forum) was in sharp decline, so there are a huge number of INFPs on the board, and the ones that were there when I left were quite friendly and extremely helpful.

 

[Latro]

I would rephrase this. "Do not have a conversation where you 'confess how you feel' directly yet." It's got to come eventually, but there's no reason to rush that.

True. I'm just saying, it's really awkward at the beginning, even if both individuals happen to feel the same way. The "I love you" conversation needs to come up eventually, yes, but by then reciprocity should be all but guaranteed anyway (if only because of how long the two individuals have remained in a committed relationship by that point).

I know my "should" statements make me sound like the bad side of an SJ, but keep in mind that again this is all theorycraft. In reality it works out differently, but "ideally" should emulate this to some degree.

 

[Felan]

True. I'm just saying, it's really awkward at the beginning, even if both individuals happen to feel the same way. The "I love you" conversation needs to come up eventually, yes, but by then reciprocity should be all but guaranteed anyway (if only because of how long the two individuals have remained in a committed relationship by that point).

I know my "should" statements make me sound like the bad side of an SJ, but keep in mind that again this is all theorycraft. In reality it works out differently, but "ideally" should emulate this to some degree.

Well asking on a date and I love you are usually entirely different conversations.

 

[Staywhatyouare]

I would rephrase this. "Do not have a conversation where you 'confess how you feel' directly yet." It's got to come eventually, but there's no reason to rush that.

I'm dating an INFP now (depending on your definition. We live on opposite sides of the country, so we obviously don't hang out a lot.... but I have gone out to visit, and we got along fantastically, etc. Most likely when I graduate from college and move out of my house, we'll just move in together and that'll be that. Neither of us cares too much for social expectations or "signs we might be sending." We're both aiming to be together forever, though)... so I've talked to her about all her past relationships and dating habits and stuff. The one thing I can say is that as long as you're displaying interest, there's absolutely no "rush". Mine, at least, has held onto crushes quietly for nearly full decades, hanging out whenever possible, but never initiating anything.

The other thing that I can say as a "probably" is that she's unlikely to be overwhelmed by how much you like her. However, it's more likely that the first time you show interest, she might let all her thoughts and feelings loose, and you might find yourself overwhelmed by her level of attraction instead. So my advice would be not to say anything directly until you're quite sure that you won't run away or get scared if she says something along the lines of "I've been having fantasies about bearing your children for the last 6 months!" That's just sort of how INFPs (both guys and girls) are; they're used to scaring people away by their quick, intense emotions too.


The other reason I'd say "take it easy" is because there's very little difference between friendship and relationship. Their best friends are the people they connect with on the worldview level, and really share themselves fully with and not get laughed at or attacked, and their ideal relationship is someone who accepts these things and shares them back. Similarly to how the key to an INTPs emotions is to make the environment a safe place to be shared, INFPs thrive on safe bonds of honest interaction. Even if she only thinks of you as a friend, by hanging out regularly and increasing that trust/safety-bond, you might find that you're in a relationship before you know it.

Eventually, however, it's extremely likely that you will have to make the first move, and initiate the open relationship. They're the only type that I consider more passive than ours, and with the gender roles playing into it (which they're just as uncomfortable with as we are, but play along with them because they've probably chased away many people by ignoring them, too), there's little chance that she'll truly initiate it. I think that you can expect to see signs of interest, though, as she'll go out of her way to show them. Just keep your eyes open. I was lucky, in that my INFP (back when we were just good friends talking online, who had never met each other) typed her feelings often, but just didn't hit enter, and accidentally slipped once . That accelerated things quite a bit, you can imagine... but it equally could have ended in disaster, if I wasn't interested too. In general, I do not think you have anything to worry about, if there's truly no opportunity to get together for a month. If she has a crush already, it will not die before then.

Also: you may want to go to personalitycafe.com or something like that. It was founded and grew during a period when globalchatter (the INFP forum) was in sharp decline, so there are a huge number of INFPs on the board, and the ones that were there when I left were quite friendly and extremely helpful.

Wow, a lot of great advice in that post. Since you seem to be somewhat of an expert on the topic can I ask another question?

1. What signs would an INFP show through talking online that would indicate interest? So far I have her bringing up the idea of us hanging out in person soon, and just in general she seems to be very flirty/friendly especially considering we've known each other for 2 months maybe and have only really had serious talks online. For example whenever she has to go, she'll pretty much always say "i'll talk to you soooon", or something like that.

And I guess I should mention that I'm going to be a junior in college, whereas she's entering her freshman year...so I'm a bit worried about maturity issues...but to be honest she seems to be one of the smartest/most mature girls I've ever met especially considering her age.

 

[Latro]

Well asking on a date and I love you are usually entirely different conversations.

From experience sometimes they aren't. It usually doesn't end well when they aren't.

 

[fullerene]

Wow, a lot of great advice in that post. Since you seem to be somewhat of an expert on the topic can I ask another question?

1. What signs would an INFP show through talking online that would indicate interest? So far I have her bringing up the idea of us hanging out in person soon, and just in general she seems to be very flirty/friendly especially considering we've known each other for 2 months maybe and have only really had serious talks online. For example whenever she has to go, she'll pretty much always say "i'll talk to you soooon", or something like that.

And I guess I should mention that I'm going to be a junior in college, whereas she's entering her freshman year...so I'm a bit worried about maturity issues...but to be honest she seems to be one of the smartest/most mature girls I've ever met especially considering her age.

lol, "somewhat of an expert.... not so much . I've had one girlfriend, it's only been going on some 8 months or so, and never actually had to ask anyone out in my life. I'll try to answer if I can, though. As for signs of interest online: that probably varies a whole lot from person to person. We met on a site sorta like this, in flashchat, and she immediately PMed me to say "you're interesting" -- because we'd noticed each others' posts for a long time (there were only like 15-20 people on the board at the time, since it was brand new)--and said that she wanted to talk. We'd then pop on and private message each other to hold our own little conversations whenever we could. We talked about all sorts of ideas, including how each one of us perceives the things around us, the things that go through each of our minds all the time, etc. Then it turned into playful flirting, joking about sex-based things here and there, things like that (I think that started when the "things that go through each of our minds" touched on sexual subjects, even though they were serious the first time). Eventually it got to the point where we skype-talked to each other, and showed pictures of ourselves and stuff, and then I went out to visit. Now we have a pretty steady stream of text-messages going back and forth with each other, and talk on the phone every few days.

To put it generally... I'd say that if she's initiating conversation, then she's probably interested. ...maybe not in a relationship, but probably at least that she sees you as a potential, someday, or a possible good friend. I couldn't tell you how to read the signs, but like I said, there's no rush. If she's interested, she'll be interested for a loong time.... as long as you're careful not to let her think you like a different girl--and even then, who knows.

 

[echoplex]

I agree with others who said it's unlikely for her to initiate much of anything. In fact, I'd say an INFP female is categorically the least likely person to initiate a romantic relationship. I just think they're typically not the type to show feelings until they feel "safe" to do so. However, any feelings they do have are likely to be quite intense under the surface.

I think the one difficulty with an INFP that an INTP might encounter is the fact that INFPs are very sensitive to emotional undertones in speech, whereas we are more concerned with accuracy and logic. Simply put: Be careful what you say, especially while chatting online where you can easily be misunderstood.

 

[fullerene]

also depends on if she knows mbti or not, I think. I hardly had to be careful at all with my tones, but since she knew of mbti as well, I didn't have to watch anything at all. She'd just think "awww, he's being suuuch a cute little INTP!"

but, yeah. Others might not know so well. Any odd inflection in your voice will get used in her mind later, when she's trying to figure out whether or not you're interested in her

 

[Beat Mango]

Question (kind of off-topic but not really): how can you tell if someone is an ISFP or INFP? Both are withdrawn and therefore it's hard to tell the difference, right? Michael Jackson was apparently an INFP, whereas as Bon Jovi is apparently an ISFP, and they don't seem all that different apart from Jacko being more eccentric.

 

[Staywhatyouare]

Question (kind of off-topic but not really): how can you tell if someone is an ISFP or INFP? Both are withdrawn and therefore it's hard to tell the difference, right? Michael Jackson was apparently an INFP, whereas as Bon Jovi is apparently an ISFP, and they don't seem all that different apart from Jacko being more eccentric.

Good question. Although I'm not 100% sure, a couple things about her lead me to believe that she is an N rather than a S. In general, just when we talk she has more of an "N" vibe to her...she seems to be more about the big picture, and future oriented. Also I've seen some of her writing (mainly poetry), and I just can't imagine her being an S. But I agree that without knowing a good deal about someones interests it would be difficult to tell the difference between ISFP and INFP.

 

[Auburn]

I agree with most everything Cryptonia posted.
There's little I could add, but having been in a relationship with an INFP also, I feel a burden to share what I learned from it - in hopes that it might help you too.

...she's unlikely to be overwhelmed by how much you like her....you might find yourself overwhelmed by her level of attraction instead. That's just sort of how INFPs (both guys and girls) are; they're used to scaring people away by their quick, intense emotions too.

Agreed. I would be surprised to hear that an INFP reacted coldly when someone confessed their feelings for them. Out of all types, they know what that's like the most, and probably empathize the most. Even if the INFP isn't attracted back, they will most likely do all they can to not hurt someone who shared such honesty with them.

The other reason I'd say "take it easy" is because there's very little difference between friendship and relationship. Their best friends are the people they connect with on the worldview level, and really share themselves fully with and not get laughed at or attacked, and their ideal relationship is someone who accepts these things and shares them back...

Agreed. I would suggest becoming her best friend before anything else. From what you described, you're friends, but still moreso in an infant state. From my, limited, experience, I think this sort of trust is essential to them. This might take a while, especially if they've had their trust broken in the past - but without this, there may not be any progress.

If you manage to earn her trust, simply allow certain hints to be shown that you desire something more. She's intuitive. She'll know. But as crypt mentioned, even if she's interested back, she might not say it directly. Still, little things will give it away. Look for those little things~

 

[JoeJoe]

OK, here we go:


This first part is part of the type discription:

Looking down the Road: How INFPs Change over Time

Up until about the age of 30, INFPs are run by their Lead Feeling (Fi), supported by their Intuition. As INFPs reach their thirties and forties, they begin to take notice of their Sensing. They are likely to start paying more attention to te practical realities of life, and tasks such as balancing their checkbooks may become easier. They also become more realistic in their expectations of themselves and others. In their forties and fifties, INFPs may begin to use their Least Function, Thinking (Te). Typically, this is their greatest weakness and where they are most vulnerable. By consciously working at it, INFPs may become more logical and better able to make decisions with clarity and objectivity. They also tend to take fewer things personally and are less likely to get their feelings hurt. Although they remain deeply committed to their values and beliefs, this new balance can make them more tolerant and appreciative of other, equally valuably but different styles of decision making.

INFPs as Partners

INFPs are supprotive and nurturing partners, but they are also highly individualistic and often peoccupied with their own projects and and thoughts. Because harmony is so important to INFPs, they are very affected by conflict and tension, but they may resist confronting their partners directly about problems between them. When tey become angry, they're likely to feel guilty and blame themselves rather than teir partners. INFPs can also be stubborn and unyielding when they feel they're being criticized or mistreated. And because they may not verbalize those feelings, it may be hard for their partners to know when they've been hurt.
INFPs feel most appreciated and loved when their partners are patient and supportive and listen carefully. They need to be understood and want a partner who is sensitive to their feelings and respectful of their values. They also like to be rassured, often verbally, about how much they are loved.

Relationship Satisfiers

Trust, good communication, and mutual respect are aspects of relationships that all types value highly. But here are the aspects that INFPs report are most and least important to them.

Most important:
Mutual commitment
Fidelity
Mutual supprot
Intimacy
Being listened to
Accepting each other's differences
Shared values

Least important:
Shared religious beliefs
Financial security
Shared interests
Similar parenting styles
Sexual compatibility

The following is specifically for INTPs with INFPs.

INTP with INFP

The Joys

INTPs and INFPs share three of the four type preferences, so they often have a lot in common. They are both private, quiet people who need plenty of time to themselves pursuing things that they find interesting or personally meaningful. Both are intersted in personal growth and development - whether of an intellectual, emotional, or spiritual nature - and tend to be supportive of each other's individual pursuits. They frequently have a similar take on things, are interested in exploring deeper meanings and subtle connections, and enjoy the creative stimulation they get from movies, art, music, or theater. They focus on the big picture and enjoy having deep and substantive discussions about a variety of topics. Relaced and flexible about most things, INTPs and INFPs are typically curious about and open to each other's views and thoughts. Neither is especially interested in trying to control the other, and both prefer to lead unstructured, casual lives. They are supprotive listeners and generally have little need for a lot of outside stimulation or input.
Understandably, INTPs and INFPs are often attracted to each other not only because of their many similarities but also because of their differences. INTPs are typically drawn to INFPs' warmth and genuine desire to nurture and share with their partners. INFPs also are deeply compassionate and devoted people who look for the best in their partners. For their part, INFPs are attracted to INTPs because they're so unique, confident, calm, and independent. INTPs are usually utterly unpretentious and especially honest about themselves - a quality INFPs find refreshing.
Because of their differences, INTPs and INFPs have the oppurtunity to help each othter frow and develop in important ways. INTPs often say that their partners help them open up and share the emotional side of their lives. INTPs find that their partners encourage them to be more compassionate and also more sensitive to other people's feelings. Many INFPs credit their INTP partners with helping them become more objective, especially about themselves. They learn to take fewer things personally and generally become more assertive and independent.


The Frustrations

The chief frustration INTPs and INFPs experience involves communication and their radically different ways of making decisions. INTPs are superlogical people and are rarely convinced by anything that doesn't make rational sense to them. By contrast, INFPs are intensely sensitive people who base most of their decisions on personal values. INTPs unintentionally hurt their INFP partners' feelings by being critical and detached, and INFPs often feel shut out from their partners' reaction, wich makes them feel lonely. Sharing a deep, meaningful, and emotionally intimate connection with their partners is paramount to INFPs. INTPs are often baffled by the reactions, or overreactions, of their INFP partners. They believe that their commitment is self-evident and don't understand why their partners take offense at their honesty or their efforts to help their partners improve by pointing out flaws or mistakes. Their intentions are honorable, and they can't see why their partners can't accept constructive criticism in the spirit in which it is given. INFPs often complain that their partners don't share their feelings and thoughts with them as much as they want and need. For their part, INTPs often feel that their partners are too dependant on them and press them to share when they aren't ready.
When conflicts arise, INTPs tend to withdraw and act even cooler, while INFPs withdraw and brood. Compounding the problem is the fact that neither INTPs nor INFPs discuss problems imediately. INTPs are reluctant to express their fears and be vulnerable, so when they aren't completely sure how to state their feelings, they take time to think about it. For their part, INFPs may avoid confrontation because they don't want to face the reality that there are problems. Since INFPs also want to express their feelings diplomatically, they frequently ruminate about things longer thant they should. INTPs and INFPs often find it beneficial to set regular times to talk about their relationships, giving both partners time to think about things ahead of time.
While INTPs and INFPs may like intellectual discussions, INTPs enjoy the stimulation and tension of debates. But INFPs find that tension stressful because they equate arguments with disharmony. So discussions that begin as intersting and fun can turn uncomfortable when INFPs begin to take things personally and INTPs try to prove they're right. Although INTPs and INFPs are usually flexible and casual about small matters, INTPs can be sticklers about their principles, and INFPs can be rigid when their values are challenged. Finally, since neither INTPs nor INFPs pay close attention to routine or mundane details, they can both neglect improtant practical matters such as paying bills or maintaining their homes. They tend to be very relaxed about deadlines and followthrough, and they may play a game of hot potato when it comes to making decisions or finishing projects. As with many couple, there is often an unfair distibution of household labor when the woman, regardless of her type, feels pressured to take on more than her fair share of the cleaning and organizing.

How to Reach Your INFP Partner

-Don't put off discussing important things, but do so gently and lovingly.
-Watch your tendency to be overly critical and analytical and to find fault with your partner's reasoning.
-Sit close to your partner when talking about conflict. Touch and smile. Start by expressing the positive things before the negative.
-Express your gratitude and appreciation of all the ways your partner nurtures and supports you. Do it in writing if that's easier for you.
-Compliment your partner's efforts in all things, such as finishing projects, initiating plans, and striking out independently.
-Don't dismiss your partner's feelings, even if you don't understand them.
-Never ask your partner to compromise on his or her personal values and beliefs.

How to Reach Your INTP Partner

-Tell your partner you need a break to calm down and become rational again. Then go back and sdiscuss things calmly and honestly.
-Present your views logically and rationally. Try not to repeat yourself.
-Give your partner time to think about how he or she feels about things before expecting a response.
-Appreciate the effort your partner makes to share with you. Compliment him or her on the stimulation he or she brings to your life.
Initiate discussions of new and complex subjects.
-Don't question your partner's competence or put him or her on the spot publicly.

Please excuse any spelling mistakes, I wasn't looking at the screen while typing.

 

[Staywhatyouare]

Alright cool, thanks for the advice guys, and thanks JoeJoe for typing that up for me, I think it will be pretty useful. I'll keep you guys updated as the situation progresses.

 

[Waterstiller]

Question (kind of off-topic but not really): how can you tell if someone is an ISFP or INFP? Both are withdrawn and therefore it's hard to tell the difference, right? Michael Jackson was apparently an INFP, whereas as Bon Jovi is apparently an ISFP, and they don't seem all that different apart from Jacko being more eccentric.

My sister is ISFP and my mom is INFP. They are very, very, different. My sister is impossible to talk to and is perhaps the most illogical person I know. She's very emotional and seems to not be able to think outside of whatever she's feeling at that moment. She's cute and funny and I love her to death though.

My mom.. is just cool and is able to go anywhere in a conversation unless it violates her values. We communicate the best in the family; always on a peer-to-peer level even when I was in elementary school. It really sucked when I came out as atheist because her being Christian is extremely important to her and I was extremely bitter - a complete clash of her values and my principles. When that happens, it's a wrench in the relationship machine until one of you gives in. After my bitterness subsided it was back to normal.


Cryptonia and JoeJoe: Thanks, that really helps.

I'm kind of scared because there's this girl I'm interested in who's INFP and she keeps surprising me with how much we have in common. ALL of the most valued people in my life are INFP's and I've had a crush on most of them. And this girl's sexy and artsy and super queer.. so I'm scared. The average OKC message is like 7 thousand words..

(I'm also meeting another girl who's probably INFP/INTP for coffee tomorrow lol. OKC ftw!)

 

[Staywhatyouare]

Am I hallucinating or did some of the recent posts from this topic get deleted? Anyways she finally took the test and I found out she's actually ENFP. The other night we had a a really intense talk...like for the first time I felt like she was actually opening up to me about personal issues, and I did the same. This should be considered a good thing right?

 

[fullerene]

yeah, they did get deleted.

http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=3699

The one thing I'd say about tests and girls: because of cultural pressures and stuff, a lot more of them turn up extroverted than actually are . Not saying she isn't, of course, but I wouldn't take it as a guarantee.

Anyway: my best friend and brother are both very definite ENFPs. If you can get them talking about personal issues, you're probably in pretty good shape, lol. My brother doesn't have too bad problems, but that friend took over a year 'til he really relaxed. Both of them have this "nothing's ever a problem! *giggles*" aura around them, nearly all the time--and they really feel it, when they're in groups of people. Having a bunch of people around will instantly shift their mood into this blissfully happy state where they feel like they can overcome anything. The transfer from "friends who hang around and play cards a lot" to "friends who can sit alone together and talk about serious concerns" took a really long time, though. The first time he'd mention an issue, it'd be with an air of "[some thing] sorta bugs me a bit... but not too badly! It's not really anyone's fault, either... but just a shame it had to work out that way." The second time it might be "this is kind of an issue... but I know I'll bounce back and get over it eventually. I'm not sure why someone would do that... but I know [makes some excuse that exonerates them]." Before I knew it, it would be like "this sort of thing has actually bugged me, constantly, since childhood. I think that making up for it causes me to [insert staggering amounts of Ne-work describing feelings and motivations here]."

It's like a progression, designed first to test the waters and see how you respond to it... whether you're helpful or not, bored or interested, critical or encouraging, etc, before they actually admit that something's wrong. However, I don't think it's entirely hypocritical; granted, the ones I know are really cool ENFPs... but I think they legitimately test the waters first just to make sure that they wouldn't be putting unnecessary pressure on you if you didn't want it or couldn't handle it. The INFP would, instead, dive immediately into the deeper levels, without the social considerations or tests that the ENFP would run first.

tbh, I think either one of them (I/ENFP) would make fine matches for us. The I just does a whole lot more internal reflection, and is extremely careful (and incredible in their ability) to maintain consistency in their beliefs and actions. The E doesn't quite have that ability... and because their intuition is so much more powerful and they have the ability to convince just about anyone of anything, they avoid internal reflection because it gives headaches and doesn't yield much progress (since, after all, they might just be able to convince themselves of things, too). Instead, they focus outwards and set their sincerity towards sincerely helping other people through things, and the self-reflection happens as a secondary concern, whenever other people aren't around or available to keep them busy.

 

[Staywhatyouare]

yeah, they did get deleted.

http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=3699

The one thing I'd say about tests and girls: because of cultural pressures and stuff, a lot more of them turn up extroverted than actually are . Not saying she isn't, of course, but I wouldn't take it as a guarantee.

Anyway: my best friend and brother are both very definite ENFPs. If you can get them talking about personal issues, you're probably in pretty good shape, lol. My brother doesn't have too bad problems, but that friend took over a year 'til he really relaxed. Both of them have this "nothing's ever a problem! *giggles*" aura around them, nearly all the time--and they really feel it, when they're in groups of people. Having a bunch of people around will instantly shift their mood into this blissfully happy state where they feel like they can overcome anything. The transfer from "friends who hang around and play cards a lot" to "friends who can sit alone together and talk about serious concerns" took a really long time, though. The first time he'd mention an issue, it'd be with an air of "[some thing] sorta bugs me a bit... but not too badly! It's not really anyone's fault, either... but just a shame it had to work out that way." The second time it might be "this is kind of an issue... but I know I'll bounce back and get over it eventually. I'm not sure why someone would do that... but I know [makes some excuse that exonerates them]." Before I knew it, it would be like "this sort of thing has actually bugged me, constantly, since childhood. I think that making up for it causes me to [insert staggering amounts of Ne-work describing feelings and motivations here]."

It's like a progression, designed first to test the waters and see how you respond to it... whether you're helpful or not, bored or interested, critical or encouraging, etc, before they actually admit that something's wrong. However, I don't think it's entirely hypocritical; granted, the ones I know are really cool ENFPs... but I think they legitimately test the waters first just to make sure that they wouldn't be putting unnecessary pressure on you if you didn't want it or couldn't handle it. The INFP would, instead, dive immediately into the deeper levels, without the social considerations or tests that the ENFP would run first.

tbh, I think either one of them (I/ENFP) would make fine matches for us. The I just does a whole lot more internal reflection, and is extremely careful (and incredible in their ability) to maintain consistency in their beliefs and actions. The E doesn't quite have that ability... and because their intuition is so much more powerful and they have the ability to convince just about anyone of anything, they avoid internal reflection because it gives headaches and doesn't yield much progress (since, after all, they might just be able to convince themselves of things, too). Instead, they focus outwards and set their sincerity towards sincerely helping other people through things, and the self-reflection happens as a secondary concern, whenever other people aren't around or available to keep them busy.

That is a good point about the social pressures, because she really does strike me as more of an introvert. She loves video games , writing, poetry, listening to music...a lot of activities by herself and being alone doesn't seem to bother her. Nothing about her makes her seem like an extrovert except for the fact that she's friendly and outgoing. And that's good that getting her to to talk about personal issues is a step forward...but I do have to express once concern.

The trap that I've fallen into with pretty much every girl I've fallen for up until this point is the "friend zone." It's the same story every time. I meet a girl who I'm interested in and start talking/flirting with her. We get closer, but me being someone who takes things slowly never outright expresses feelings for her. A couple months down the road it comes out one way or another ( unfortunately usually through a drunken "confession") that I have feelings for her. She replies that she appreciates the sentiments but only sees me as a friend and doesn't want to ruin the relationship. Awkwardness ensues.

On the other hand more recentely I've taken a completely different approach and I guess started playing games in a way. Not always being available, being kinda flaky...stuff like that. Girls seem to be wayyy more attracted to me. Now it could be that its simply the fact that I've become much more confident recently and that's what they're attracted to. But anyways, I'm just really worried about falling into that "friend zone" because its the worst feeling in the world...but you guys are saying that my primary concern should be to become her best friend.

Do you think the reason why I kept falling into the friend zone before was that the girls could sort of sense that lack of self-confidence even if I couldn't and found it unattractive....so maybe it wasn't necessarily my approach that was wrong but rather the state of mind I was in?

 

[Latro]

That is a good point about the social pressures, because she really does strike me as more of an introvert. She loves video games , writing, poetry, listening to music...a lot of activities by herself and being alone doesn't seem to bother her. Nothing about her makes her seem like an extrovert except for the fact that she's friendly and outgoing. And that's good that getting her to to talk about personal issues is a step forward...but I do have to express once concern.

The trap that I've fallen into with pretty much every girl I've fallen for up until this point is the "friend zone." It's the same story every time. I meet a girl who I'm interested in and start talking/flirting with her. We get closer, but me being someone who takes things slowly never outright expresses feelings for her. A couple months down the road it comes out one way or another ( unfortunately usually through a drunken "confession") that I have feelings for her. She replies that she appreciates the sentiments but only sees me as a friend and doesn't want to ruin the relationship. Awkwardness ensues.

On the other hand more recentely I've taken a completely different approach and I guess started playing games in a way. Not always being available, being kinda flaky...stuff like that. Girls seem to be wayyy more attracted to me. Now it could be that its simply the fact that I've become much more confident recently and that's what they're attracted to. But anyways, I'm just really worried about falling into that "friend zone" because its the worst feeling in the world...but you guys are saying that my primary concern should be to become her best friend.

Do you think the reason why I kept falling into the friend zone before was that the girls could sort of sense that lack of self-confidence even if I couldn't and found it unattractive....so maybe it wasn't necessarily my approach that was wrong but rather the state of mind I was in?

I'd say the reason why you kept falling into the friend zone is because those "confession" conversations almost universally do not work, even if the feelings are in fact mutual. It just puts the other person into a ridiculously awkward position, and one that they desperately strive to get out of in a way that isn't too harsh to you (because they like their relationship with you)...and then in turn they keep hanging out with you but are pretty much permanently kept romantically uninterested in you.

 

[Staywhatyouare]

I'd say the reason why you kept falling into the friend zone is because those "confession" conversations almost universally do not work, even if the feelings are in fact mutual. It just puts the other person into a ridiculously awkward position, and one that they desperately strive to get out of in a way that isn't too harsh to you (because they like their relationship with you)...and then in turn they keep hanging out with you but are pretty much permanently kept romantically uninterested in you.

Yeah that makes sense. I guess I never understood why someone would feel awkward about something like that, especially if the feelings were mutual. To me the awkwardness is in having that tension out there that both parties are aware of but neither wants to discuss so I end hiding my feelings and constantly monitoring what I'm saying. But I guess that's just me being a weird INTP haha.

 

[Latro]

Yeah that makes sense. I guess I never understood why someone would feel awkward about something like that, especially if the feelings were mutual. To me the awkwardness is in having that tension out there that both parties are aware of but neither wants to discuss so I end up having to hide me feelings and constantly monitor what I'm saying. But I guess that's just me being a weird INTP haha.

Don't hide them. Just don't explicitly state them. You can get the idea across without explicitly stating what it is. Simply kissing the person is a bit more than what I'm talking about, but doing things like getting a little physically closer to someone at proper moments, certain types of smiles, etc. can get the idea across, especially in one-on-one settings.

Now granted, I'm terrible at this stuff (my nonverbal IQ tested around 60 when I was a kid, I am not kidding here), so my opinion is based almost solely on theorycraft and things I've read online. Still, I think it should theoretically work.

 

[Staywhatyouare]

Don't hide them. Just don't explicitly state them. You can get the idea across without explicitly stating what it is. Simply kissing the person is a bit more than what I'm talking about, but doing things like getting a little physically closer to someone at proper moments, certain types of smiles, etc. can get the idea across, especially in one-on-one settings.

Now granted, I'm terrible at this stuff (my nonverbal IQ tested around 60 when I was a kid, I am not kidding here), so my opinion is based almost solely on theorycraft and things I've read online. Still, I think it should theoretically work.

Hm ok well that makes sense, and it is something I have been trying to work on...a bit hard to accomplish through instant messenger though haha. Well I'll be going home for a bit in a couple of weeks, so I guess I'll have to wait until then to see exactly where this stands but I definitely think its going in the right direction.

 

[fullerene]

yeah... sorry, I've no idea what to add about that. I have, my whole life, had no interest in any girls (or guys), never consciously "made a move", and never been upset at being blocked off into the friend zone. Of course, that's probably because I don't have that many friends, either . I know about NF types, but nothing about dating... same as latro. Frankly, I'm not even sure how I ended up in the relationship I have now, lol. We had a talk here and there tossing ideas back and forth about what kind of couple we'd make, but it wasn't 'til we prayed about it (both christians) and had simultaneous dreams about each other (er... there was a lot of thought and analysis that went into this, so don't worry, it's not solely superstition--but it did help a lot) that we started taking the possibility seriously.

Obviously not every relationship starts out that way, though, so I've no idea how normal people do it. We're just a pair of oddballs. I'd say that if it were me, and I were looking for a happy medium that expresses interest, but isn't an outright "open confession", I'd try to discuss "relationships in general" with them. Not like an "I want to be with you!" kind of thing, but "I think relationships have the best chance of working out if..." or "I get the feeling a lot of marriages fail when..." kinds of things. This also has the added bonus of warning you away from her before you get in too deep and find out that you share a lot of interests, but nothing similar at your cores. If your answers turn up similar, or whatever, you can probably bet that she'll be considering you, too. This will, of course, scare off your S-types... haha.

Like I said, tho, I've never had to initiate a relationship under any sort of normal circumstances. This also just seems like it'd work. You're better off taking just about everyone's advice before mine, though

 

[echoplex]

The trap that I've fallen into with pretty much every girl I've fallen for up until this point is the "friend zone." It's the same story every time. I meet a girl who I'm interested in and start talking/flirting with her. We get closer, but me being someone who takes things slowly never outright expresses feelings for her. A couple months down the road it comes out one way or another ( unfortunately usually through a drunken "confession") that I have feelings for her. She replies that she appreciates the sentiments but only sees me as a friend and doesn't want to ruin the relationship. Awkwardness ensues.

On the other hand more recentely I've taken a completely different approach and I guess started playing games in a way. Not always being available, being kinda flaky...stuff like that. Girls seem to be wayyy more attracted to me. Now it could be that its simply the fact that I've become much more confident recently and that's what they're attracted to. But anyways, I'm just really worried about falling into that "friend zone" because its the worst feeling in the world...but you guys are saying that my primary concern should be to become her best friend.

haha, yeah. Be her best friend, but not too much. Life is fucking confusing, huh?

Seriously though, the J in me is saying that you should just decide early on whether to go for it or not. And if you do, you have to make your feelings known early on, so she'll know for sure you're interested. Of course, that doesn't mean laying it all out at once; it can be gradual. And I'd avoid the sudden, out-of-the-blue confessions (whether drunken or not).

I guess this is why INTPs suck at this kind of thing. We don't like to commit to feelings, and we don't even know how to show them when we do. Then we let them out in an all-out Fe attack and they're like "where did that come from?"

 

[Zero]

I've had very few encounters with people I feel like I could get along with.

I'm something of a chiller, cold, distant INTP when it comes to intimate relationship. I'm not searching for anyone right now. I HATE being hit on. I like it when someone acts like I'm their friend and is nice to me, not trying to fuck me or court me. Heck, if someone is trying to fuck me I would kind of prefer they throw out the chivalry and just get it over with. ((Hmm did I just suggest that I would rather be raped than hit on?))

I don't like the whole dating, courting thing. I just want to be comfortable and relaxed around someone. If I could come to a point where I could be like that and trust them, that's enough to me. My equivalent to a romantic's "love" is trust. Love can be random and whimsical, I don't have any of that crap. To me people who "like" or "love" me are looking for a commitment. I have problems with that when I don't yet trust someone and they come out and demand some kind of commitment.

I've pretty much said, "Fuck You" to guys who've done that. That, "I think we really get along and we can talk and blahblahblah." Sometimes I almost feel attracted to females, because they won't hit on me!

I think NFPs are better with commitment, so I wouldn't worry so much about crossing their boundaries with admissions of "like-like". Not everyone needs to trust someone to let them into their boundaries. I'm kind of demanding in that I want everything to work on my time (and rules?).

One person called it out right. I'm lonely and I'll stay that way. Apparently he thought my problems were linked to the fact that I was lonely, which I don't think is true, but he was right about my "aloneness". I kind of hate people. It's easier to be alone than to deal with all that sh-t.

I like having friends, I don't have many friends. Friends are kind of a new thing for me... Getting friends and committing time to friends takes up enough of my concentration. Not to mention just attempting to have a normal, progressive life...

 

[fullerene]

^^wins

 

[Zero]

I have issues ....
And I know it...

And I'm proud of it...

 

[fullerene]

I dunno. I'm pretty sure the willingness to grow up and be alone your whole life is like a prerequisite for a happy relationship. Or... maybe a relationship can survive one person without that point of view... but i don't think it can work if both lack it. As I understand it, things are different for the NFs, though. I've actually never known one who couldn't survive without a mate. I think it's a good thing in NTs, though.

...not to say you don't have issues, of course

Probly depends on how old you are, though. I dunno what adult relationships are like yet, but throughout school my attention generally perked up, and I would think "this person might have some intelligent things to say," when they said "I can't put up with this social crap." Of course, I then had to learn that 99% of the time they're lying, and actually love it--but it's almost a necessary mindset for a person to have.

 

[Zero]

....I'm 22...

 

[fullerene]

I see. It may be like that for you, then, too, but I wouldn't know. I'm not there yet, and have no experience with adult relationships. My dad's are really shallow, and would sicken me... but I just thought that was cause he was an ESTJ.

 

[Waterstiller]

1632 profiles come up when you search "INFP" on OkCupid.com

1572 "INTP"
1220 "INFJ"
1050 "ENFP"
1890 "INTJ"

 

[Zero]

I wouldn't wish my life on anyone else...

 

[Zero]

INFPs have a forum and a whole board dedicated to relationships. They also have a chat room.
http://infp.globalchatter.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=14652

 

[Staywhatyouare]

haha, yeah. Be her best friend, but not too much. Life is fucking confusing, huh?

Seriously though, the J in me is saying that you should just decide early on whether to go for it or not. And if you do, you have to make your feelings known early on, so she'll know for sure you're interested. Of course, that doesn't mean laying it all out at once; it can be gradual. And I'd avoid the sudden, out-of-the-blue confessions (whether drunken or not).

I guess this is why INTPs suck at this kind of thing. We don't like to commit to feelings, and we don't even know how to show them when we do. Then we let them out in an all-out Fe attack and they're like "where did that come from?"

Yeah, I've decided that this is probably the best way to view the situation. I don't want to spend months doing the whole game/courting thing its just way too much stress. I'll be home in a couple of weeks, hopefully we'll be able to go on a date or something and either things will go well and I'll go from there, or they won't and I'll move on. This whole talking to her online thing is driving me crazy because its so ridiculously hard to read people through instant messaging, but I'll just have to occupy my mind with other things I guess.

 

[Sapphire Harp]

This whole talking to her online thing is driving me crazy because its so ridiculously hard to read people through instant messaging, but I'll just have to occupy my mind with other things I guess.

You know, something about this really struck me… Why is it that you need to read her so carefully? Isn’t that really a sign of focused, intended seduction? Rather, it’s definitely a sign you are under some kind of pressure - that you want to drive things towards an end…

Is it only the hope of a relationship keeping you interested in this? Supposing you were to find she was rather unattractive, would you still be interested in connecting with her so? It sounds like you, for certain, have a very interesting and stimulating connection with her…
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