In doubt and the "Rebel Stage"

[shrub77]

Recently, I have been doing very poorly in school, Freshmen year. My reason is that I am really starting to get fed up with the routines, the administration, lack of freedom, constant checks, and redundancy etc.

My Father thinks that this is a cry for attention and he has given me a lecture on human psychology. Furthermore, he has said that I am empathetic (He said, If I was given a gun and told to shoot a deer, I wouldn't. He is right, killing that deer would serve no purpose, why kill it? It is illogical), and my whole "Dont give a shit" attitude is also a cry for attention.

I am wondering whether this is the "Rebel Stage" or could it be that I am not an INTP?

It is really distressing, as I had just accepted the fact of being an INTP. I guess I am doubting.

Perhaps one of you can provide insight.

 

[Fukyo]

Um, if you asked for the thread to be moved, don't make a new one ...It can always be moved.

 

[shrub77]

Um, if you asked for the thread to be moved, don't make a new one ...It can always be moved.

I am very sorry. I am just very anxious for some insight. As if my whole being has been destabilized.

 

[Da Blob]

It probably is... There are different stages in life and as one moves into adulthood often confusion reigns for a time for it seems necessary for some to question and doubt everything learned in childhood. Often those brought up in church will lose that indoctrinated faith and become at least, temporarily atheists and agnostics. Those that grew up trusting the adults around them suddenly realize that those adults actually have no clue as to what is happening in the world etc. It is called the Formal Operation stage by Piaget and basically is the result of the human brain finally maturing. The challenge is to replace the ideals that had been housed in an immature brain with more sophisticated ideals more fitting for a mature brain. some don't bother and maintain their childish belief systems their entire lives. Others grow up, a painful process in some cases.

short version, relax, it is biology at work...

 

[Words]

Great level of doubt + clear signs of intuition + Ne in the form of distaste for routine and want for freedom.

I think it's quite obvious that you're INTP.

I get tired of those irrational and mundane procedures often as well, but I regenerate my motivation with my eagerness for other things.

 

[Eido]

Sounds like classic INTP to me. Just try not to let it screw your future up.

 

[shrub77]

It probably is... There are different stages in life and as one moves into adulthood often confusion reigns for a time for it seems necessary for some to question and doubt everything learned in childhood. Often those brought up in church will lose that indoctrinated faith and become at least, temporarily atheists and agnostics. Those that grew up trusting the adults around them suddenly realize that those adults actually have no clue as to what is happening in the world etc. It is called the Formal Operation stage by Piaget and basically is the result of the human brain finally maturing. The challenge is to replace the ideals that had been housed in an immature brain with more sophisticated ideals more fitting for a mature brain. some don't bother and maintain their childish belief systems their entire lives. Others grow up, a painful process in some cases.

short version, relax, it is biology at work...

So it is normal to be doubtful at this stage in life? Interesting.

Great level of doubt + clear signs of intuition + Ne in the form of distaste for routine and want for freedom.

I think it's quite obvious that you're INTP.

I get tired of those irrational and mundane procedures often as well, but I regenerate my motivation with my eagerness for other things.

Do you feel (bad word, I know) that the world seems to be build around ESJs? All these routines and such seem to cater to them. Are they the dominant/majority of the population?

And what exactly is "Ne"? Also, What do you mean by intuition? Sorry, I am quite new to all this.

 

[Words]

Do you feel (bad word, I know) that the world seems to be build around ESJs? All these routines and such seem to cater to them.

I don't think...there's such a bias. INTP's and their intelligence are well valued in all society. And regardless of type, people look for more efficient and effective ways, and non-ESJ's are more likely to create those new tools, systems and methods. And Routines can actually be reasonable, if you're the one managing and primarily if it deals with objects and machines. A factory is efficient and effective because it follows the same routine all throughout. Most social-organization, I find, however, are lacking in better organization.

Are they the dominant/majority of the population?

my experience tell me, yeah somewhat, but there isn't a huge difference in ratio that it is reasonable to classify other types, including INTP's, as "rare."

And what exactly is "Ne"? Also, What do you mean by intuition? Sorry, I am quite new to all this.

"N" in INTP is "Intuitive", the noun is "Intuition." I think Intuitive simply means preference for "abstraction" and Intuition means the cognitive tool for abstraction or something related to "abstraction." To "abstract" something is take it's "essence" or it's general aspect. For example, philosophy is more abstract than being a mechanic wherein philosophy --> science ---> engineering ---> mechanic. It's different from the dictionary word.

Ne is a just a type of abstraction. Ni is the other type. Hope that makes sense.

 

[Eido]

Do you feel (bad word, I know) that the world seems to be build around ESJs? All these routines and such seem to cater to them. Are they the dominant/majority of the population?

And what exactly is "Ne"? Also, What do you mean by intuition? Sorry, I am quite new to all this.

First, let me say that you are making a mistake many new to MBTI make: you are framing your entire perspective on the world through the very narrow lens of Myers-Briggs. MBTI is a means of better understanding your place in the world, but not necessarily for better understanding the world-at-large. It's important to recognize the difference; otherwise, you might drive yourself towards a far too rigid way of thinking.

That said, the world is built around the majority. Introversion, for one, is frowned upon and often shunned by our culture. INTPs are one of -- if not the -- least common type. Therefore, we are the most likely to have issues conforming to a culture that runs counter to INTP nature.

Like you, I had trouble with my schooling for the same reasons you describe. Unfortunately, I let it get the best of me, and dropped out -- twice.

So, in other words, what you are experiencing is normal for INTPs, but we don't live in an INTP world. Recognizing that will help you remember that you cannot indulge the "rebel" qualities too much, or else you will get left behind by society as a whole.

 

[Coolydudey]

What has happened to me during my school years (not done yet either), is that my parents are so controlling over me that I don't really have a choice to do badly at school etc. (although I like this, since I want to study at Cambridge/Oxford in the UK, and you need seriously good grades as well as a brain to get in).

My tip is: find or remember why what you are doing interests you and this will motivate you somewhat to keep going. Remember the consequences of just giving up too, not pushing for three years might land you here, there (fill in blanks with unpleasant jobs etc.) and this will help also. Sometimes setting up competition with someone else, preferably a friend (but not over a long period of time) can be the best for motivation.
EDIT:also, if you find what you're doing really boring, then do a 5 minutes of work-2 minutes of daydreaming type thing (actually 2 minutes though). This makes the work seem less daunting, and also you don't get bored so easily. You can also try setting an amount of work to do before you daydream (although I find this makes it worse)
Basically I just lectured you on how to be motivated, but that's where it all starts in my opinion

 

[RockinLollipop]

My superior lurking abilities have led me to a mostly clear understanding of INTP thought patterns, and the worries you have expressed here don't seem to contradict them, but, in fact, supports them quite well. I remember that I was really frustrated about the same things (before I became OCD) all the way up until my sophomore year of high school. It could be just the rebellion stage, or it could be a highly inconvenient mix of your Thinking and Perceiving (you don't like to be structured, but can't understand why you're expected to be while you're already functioning fine), or some combination of both.

Do you feel (bad word, I know) that the world seems to be build around ESJs? All these routines and such seem to cater to them. Are they the dominant/majority of the population?

And what exactly is "Ne"? Also, What do you mean by intuition? Sorry, I am quite new to all this.

(I know somebody already answered this, but I'm bored) Based on my own observations, that seems to be the case. There are different statistics everywhere, but INxx types in general seem to be a small minority.
Ne is a cognitive function of intuition (that would be the "N" in INTP, iNtuition) which sees patterns and is more objective in that it deals with the reality rather than the possibilities.

I would probably have been more "rebellious" myself during my younger school years had it not been for my respect (and fear) for my mother. (She is very passive-aggressive, please help me)

 

[Da Blob]

So it is normal to be doubtful at this stage in life? Interesting.

Yes, there is a lot going on once the brain reaches full capacity. A world of two dimensional imagery has to be transformed into three dimensional imagery. All of the Black versus White dichotomies, absolutes so essential to understanding as a child, suddenly transform into scales of various shades of gray with a little bit of black at one end and a little bit of white at the other. Not to mention that the ability to think in abstract terms suddenly comes online.

Oh and if that's not enough puberty, the rebellion of the flesh, usually results in a major identity crisis, which only one out of four adolescents negotiate successfully. I was amongst those that failed that negotiation, so my whole life has been an identity crisis prolonged...

 

[Santiago]

Recently, I have been doing very poorly in school, Freshmen year. My reason is that I am really starting to get fed up with the routines, the administration, lack of freedom, constant checks, and redundancy etc.

This is the exact same thing that happened to me last year, my freshmen year as well. I told my parents and we arranged for me to go to a private school that really helps deal with that (especially the freedom as its a boarding school, so I'm pretty much on my own for the most part).
And i agree with your deer killing part, I answered the same thing when I was asked that.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

I dropped out of high school and I am now, 23 years old, studying a PhD. I say be rebellious!

 

[Pistoli]

short version, relax, it is biology at work...

yes relax. If you are on the internet, that means your life can't be too bad. See quote below

I get tired of those irrational and mundane procedures often as well, but I regenerate my motivation with my eagerness for other things.

Good advice. You must first relax and get with the fact that everything is cool and you are in control now.

Sounds like classic INTP to me. Just try not to let it screw your future up.

It can happen. You only get one go round on this rock.

Setting goals for yourself, no matter how big or small, is a great way to keep your mind tweaking toward something you enjoy.

 

[cheese]

I dropped out of high school and I am now, 23 years old, studying a PhD. I say be rebellious!

How did you do that?

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

@cheese

How did you do that?

I dropped out high school at grade 11 because I thought school was a complete waste of my time. The work was too simple. Teachers were idiotic condescending assholes. Most students were thick as two planks. The reasonably intelligent lived in some sort of bubble and spoke a language that was not intelligible. The interesting people were the delinquents.

I worked for a year full time in various vocations. The next year I sat a competency exam and applied for a scholarship to attend a high school which was arranged in a similar fashion to a university i.e. only attending the facility when there was a class on and no uniforms. The place was designed for people who had learning difficulties, "attitude" issues or were reasonably gifted.

I received the scholarship. I only had to attend the facility two to three days a week and I worked four days a week. I completed years 11 and 12 in 1.5 years. Results: valedictorian and 12th highest grades in my state for that year.

I managed to get a full tuition scholarship for a bachelors in engineering + some other scholarships over the course of the degree. During the degree I worked in designing water infrastructure and in the fields of data analysis. I decided to really stress myself out by taking an applied mathematics degree. I received first class honors with my engineering degree which enabled me to skip doing a masters degree and move straight to a PhD. Third highest grades out of 800 graduating engineering students.

If I had to do a masters degree, I would not be doing a PhD. Such a long process would be a waste of my time.

Yesterday I checked out my university's economics degree. It was lacking in depth in comparison to the amount I have studied on the subject.

There you have it, my life story in short. And I have a lesser mind according to philosophyking87.