Homosexuality

[bloozie]

I would like to know how homosexuality affects you? Or not? Specifically, what's the NT perspective on the topic? It could range from Politics to Relationships, so forth.

Also, If there are any members in here that identify as homosexual... I honestly need your help...
Here's my rant: For the past year or so, I have been contemplating reasons as to why I haven't been in a relationship with a guy, ever. I identify as being homosexual, but I just can't seem to ever find a guy that I can connect with on a more intellectual level and who identifies as being homosexual. I know a few guys that I can talk to with whom I am able to stimulate my mind with, but they are heterosexual. Also, what I find to be odd is that I don't personally (face-to-face) know any homosexual guys aside from the ones that I talk to online. And the type of relationship that I'm looking for is more of an Intellectual type rather than a Sexual type. What I'm getting at here is that I want to know if this is considered "normal" for NT types or perhaps INT's? And how do/would you break away from "normalcy"?

(This topic has probably been rehashed during previous threads, but I wasn't satisfied with the search results that I received so I decided to make one to discuss certain aspects of Homosexuality and the perspectives that the users in this forum have about it.)

 

[asdfasdfasdfsdf]

If there are any members in here that identify as femal... I honestly need your help...
Here's my rant: For the past year or so, I have been contemplating reasons as to why I haven't been in a relationship with a girl, ever. I identify as being heterosexual, but I just can't seem to ever find a girl that I can connect with on a more intellectual level and who identifies as being heterosexual. I know a few girls that I can talk to with whom I am able to stimulate my mind with, but they only exist on the internet. And the type of relationship that I'm looking for is more of an Intellectual type rather than a Sexual type. What I'm getting at here is that I want to know if this is considered "normal" for NT types or perhaps INT's? And how do/would you break away from "normalcy"?
----------------------------------------------------
people are shallow as hell
relationships dont start off on personality any more, and they arent a key factor until later.
it seems, to me, that if you find eachother attractive, you go out, you fuck
and if they like your attractiveness and performance so far, you get into a relationship and roll the dice hoping their personality isnt so fucking different from yours that you cant fuck without getting into a fight.

i think your situation has little to do with homosexuality and most to do with our generation being SO FUCKING SHALLOW IT PISSES ME OFF (and i am very cool headed)

i dont mean anything against you, but personal experience wise, every homosexual guy that i have known was gay talked in that lisp frequently and dressed "fabulous" and had a "im going to act like a girl attitude" so it would seem that the shallowness in the homosexual guy community is much denser than outside of it (although my data could be VERY affected by the fact these shallow types are much more noticeable than the ones that arent)

social/politically i think i speak for every intp here (as long as enola is gone) that everyone here things homosexuals are equals and deserve every right anyone else has (i feel like intps are less likely to be biggots - dont let me down community)

 

[Melkor]

Oh bleh.

What does it matter anyway?

You humans and your silly little categories.

Shameless omnisexual here, and I say, stop looking and start seeing.

 

[Lobstrich]

To want something and not get it? It think that's normal for everyone.

I don't know wether or not, if not being able to connect with other people or people you want relationships with is particular for NT types.

I'm not good at it either.

 

[Oblivious]

Erm... gay bars?

 

[Lobstrich]

If there are any members in here that identify as femal... I honestly need your help...
Here's my rant: For the past year or so, I have been contemplating reasons as to why I haven't been in a relationship with a girl, ever. I identify as being heterosexual, but I just can't seem to ever find a girl that I can connect with on a more intellectual level and who identifies as being heterosexual. I know a few girls that I can talk to with whom I am able to stimulate my mind with, but they only exist on the internet. And the type of relationship that I'm looking for is more of an Intellectual type rather than a Sexual type. What I'm getting at here is that I want to know if this is considered "normal" for NT types or perhaps INT's? And how do/would you break away from "normalcy"?
----------------------------------------------------
people are shallow as hell
relationships dont start off on personality any more, and they arent a key factor until later.
it seems, to me, that if you find eachother attractive, you go out, you fuck
and if they like your attractiveness and performance so far, you get into a relationship and roll the dice hoping their personality isnt so fucking different from yours that you cant fuck without getting into a fight.

social/politically i think i speak for every intp here (as long as enola is gone) that everyone here things homosexuals are equals and deserve every right anyone else has (i feel like intps are less likely to be biggots - dont let me down community)

And you call us shallow? "You like each other and fuck, and if you don't like each other later, you can't fuck without getting into a fight"
Saying that we don't need personality types in finding relationships because the first thing we do is fuck and if we like that then we get to know each other, and THEN we start a relationship..
That's gotta be a joke.

I'd take, being able to connect with, wanting to talk to the person, wanting to share your 'mind' with the person, tell them stuff you haven't told anyone before, and listen to what they have to say, before fucking as a good sign. Specially for INTP's


That being said, yes. I agree that homosexual's should have the same rights as hetero's. We are all humans, we own ourselves, we live our own lives, make our own paths, and should be able to do just that without ANYONE trying to stop you.

 

[Lobstrich]

Erm... gay bars?

Just like the BEST place to find a girl or a guy is a club. Right?

/sarcasm

 

[Thread Killer]

I don't think there is any 'NT' perspective, for one thing. I personally don't have a problem with it and that's about as far as my opinion goes. I also think labels for orientation are stupid. I don't use them.

 

[Methuselah]

Erm... gay bars?

The most horrible places on this little planet.

 

[Kuu]

To whom you are attracted to (sexually or otherwise) is entirely of your concern. How does it affect me? Well I have very few homosexual acquaintances, and even though I am open to the possibility of such attraction I myself have yet to experience it, so I suppose not much in that direct personal way. I do resent when gender roles are shoved on me, when I am accused of "being gay" when "being gay" is not something wrong that one should be "accused" of, and the fact that my behavior regardless of orientation is not something that should be limited according to stupid ancient social codes...

I wish homosexuality was widely accepted and that we finally get rid of the ridiculous outdated gender roles and relationship paradigms.

Regarding dating, I agree with what has been said by others, that this is in fact a problem of people in general being shallow and not just limited to homosexual circles.

And you call us shallow? "You like each other and fuck, and if you don't like each other later, you can't fuck without getting into a fight"
Saying that we don't need personality types in finding relationships because the first thing we do is fuck and if we like that then we get to know each other, and THEN we start a relationship..
That's gotta be a joke.

I think you should go back and read sniktawekim's post more carefully...


Edit: Also, welcome bloozie.

And hi there Thread Killer, it's been a while since I saw you last 'round here.

 

[Methuselah]

I would like to know how homosexuality affects you? Or not? Specifically, what's the NT perspective on the topic? It could range from Politics to Relationships, so forth.

Also, If there are any members in here that identify as homosexual... I honestly need your help...
Here's my rant: For the past year or so, I have been contemplating reasons as to why I haven't been in a relationship with a guy, ever. I identify as being homosexual, but I just can't seem to ever find a guy that I can connect with on a more intellectual level and who identifies as being homosexual. I know a few guys that I can talk to with whom I am able to stimulate my mind with, but they are heterosexual. Also, what I find to be odd is that I don't personally (face-to-face) know any homosexual guys aside from the ones that I talk to online. And the type of relationship that I'm looking for is more of an Intellectual type rather than a Sexual type. What I'm getting at here is that I want to know if this is considered "normal" for NT types or perhaps INT's? And how do/would you break away from "normalcy"?

(This topic has probably been rehashed during previous threads, but I wasn't satisfied with the search results that I received so I decided to make one to discuss certain aspects of Homosexuality and the perspectives that the users in this forum have about it.)

Most gays are stupid, silly bitches. There, that is your problem in a nut shell. They want to be glib, needlessly promiscuous, "fashionable" (shudder), and generally commitment phobic, and they are not very skilled at any of those things. Whenever I am in a gay city like P-town or Key West, I want to trepan myself to escape the annoying ridiculousness of it all.

And yeah, what you describe is normal for an NT. Don't go to clubs or gay bars like the other posters suggested, as that will just lead to more disappointment. You won't find NT gays there, for the most part.

It really is just a matter of needing to keep on truckin'. It is hard to find someone compatible as an INTP, even for straight people. When you narrow it down to another extreme minority, it gets even harder. But they're out there.

Back when I was dating, I met all of my friends/boyfriends online. It worked better that way because it is so easy to get a read on people. A myspace profile was the equivalent of giving someone enough rope to hang themselves with and seeing what they did with it.

So that is my advice. Meet people online, hang out with them. Don't wait for the "perfect" one, just one that you can have a conversation with. Try him out for a while, then decide if it is worth sticking around for. If not, then repeat.

 

[Methuselah]

I don't think there is any 'NT' perspective, for one thing. I personally don't have a problem with it and that's about as far as my opinion goes. I also think labels for orientation are stupid. I don't use them.

Lmao, so he asks for relationship advice and you tell him that you don't have a problem with his sexuality. What an intuitive thinker you are.

 

[Cavallier]

As said before, I think that it is difficult for either gender to find an intellectual relationship regardless of gender, sexual orientation, or even sexual desire. It's hard to find an intellectual friendship.

That being said don't the relationship finder websites offer sexual orientation options? It seems utterly ridiculous that chemistry and match.com would not allow homosexuality. E-harmony doesn't. Supposedly, you can go to those other sites and make it clear what you want in a partner. I've known a number of girls who have had success with those sites when looking for a serious heterosexual relationship. Why not a homosexual one?

 

[Lobstrich]

I think you should go back and read sniktawekim's post more carefully...

I probably should, can't see what I missed. Can't be bothered to check either, It's not a big deal.

 

[Lobstrich]

As said before, I think that it is difficult for either gender to find an intellectual relationship regardless of gender, sexual orientation, or even sexual desire. It's hard to find an intellectual friendship.

Sad as it is, it's true.

 

[bloozie]

i think your situation has little to do with homosexuality and most to do with our generation being SO FUCKING SHALLOW IT PISSES ME OFF (and i am very cool headed)

i dont mean anything against you, but personal experience wise, every homosexual guy that i have known was gay talked in that lisp frequently and dressed "fabulous" and had a "im going to act like a girl attitude" so it would seem that the shallowness in the homosexual guy community is much denser than outside of it (although my data could be VERY affected by the fact these shallow types are much more noticeable than the ones that arent)

If we focus on certain MBTI types on this, don't you think that INT's would be more reticent in acting in the way that you mentioned? I would consider what you said to be more of a stereotype.. I guess. I mean, I have seen "flamboyant" homosexuals and I have heard about the "masculine" homosexuals and I would consider myself to be of the latter type... And I agree on your view about how shallow people can be in general. But what I think is that no matter what... deep down... everyone is looking for a relationship that has substance in it rather than the shallow fulfillment of sexual desire.

Erm... gay bars?

I have thought about this and people that I know have told me that I should go to them. Just thinking about going makes me wonder what are the chances of finding someone that I can connect with on an intellectual level rather than someone that wants to have a one night stand. But of course, there is that opportune time in just being able to let go and experience a night out at a bar, but I would probably be sitting at the lounge... drinking water. So basically, going to a bar would be a waste of time since I don't drink alcohol at all!

I'd take, being able to connect with, wanting to talk to the person, wanting to share your 'mind' with the person, tell them stuff you haven't told anyone before, and listen to what they have to say, before fucking as a good sign. Specially for INTP's.

I'm assuming that all INTPs would prefer this type of process, right? Because for me, I express this desire, but rarely do I feel any sexual desire... perhaps I don't have any? Perhaps I should consider myself to be Homoasexual.

 

[Oblivious]

I thought gays were all sensitive, feely types. Should it not be be easier to find a deep gay partner in a gay bar than a deep straight guy in a normal bar?

 

[Lobstrich]

I'm assuming that all INTPs would prefer this type of process, right? Because for me, I express this desire, but rarely do I feel any sexual desire... perhaps I don't have any? Perhaps I should consider myself to be Homoasexual.

Well, at least it is so for me. Yet, I do feel sexual desire, It hasn't been fulfilled yet, though. But my desire to have a person I actually WANT to talk to, that I even miss talking to sometimes. Is what I want the most.
And finding that, being 18 is difficult. Around here, what 18 year olds do is party, get drunk, puke, drink more, and talk about how drunk you were the next day, maybe also talk about how ugly John or Mary were. And I have NO desire for those kinds of talks.

I've only met one person in my life that I actually missed talking to when we stopped talking, I wanted to share everything with her. We only knew each other for a couple of years, only really talked for 1. But I felt like I knew her better than alot of other people I know (I think she was an INFJ) I managed to push her away somehow, though, then we stopped talking. And I'm hating myself for that.

 

[Lobstrich]

I thought gays were all sensitive, feely types. Should it not be be easier to find a deep gay partner in a gay bar than a deep straight guy in a normal bar?

Wow.. You really are oblivious.

You have no idea how many overly shallow gay people there are..
I have a co-worker, he was gay. And he did NOTHING but talk behind other peoples back, sigh at everything/one that wasn't going his way etc.

EDIT: Not to say, abusive, guys that just go to bars. Have sex with the ones that are actually trying to find love etc. You have no idea... It's just as bad as the hetero's

 

[Onis]

Relationship = sex, arguing, enjoying coffee together
Friendship = having fun together, talking about the wonders of the world, trusting the other with secrets, etc

From my pov, the more time you spend with someone in a romantic relationship, the less you'll talk about anything interesting with them, and the more you believe you know the person (which will bring a lot of assumptions). So having someone with you who shares the same ideals and has the most interesting things to say, is not necessary. After few years of living together, you'll wake up together, then you'll share your morning coffee and you go to work/school, you meet your own friends and then you'll fall asleep together.
And occasionally there will be some sweet memories made.
As for the previous intelligent conversations you had before the relationship? not much of those left anymore.

In fact, I find it much harder to talk anything important with the people I see most, as I see them every day; it becomes quite awkward. It would also bring unnecessary stress to our daily lives. I rather go to sleep with assured mind that everything's o-kay on my relationship, than stress it with stuff. It's not great to wake up, look at the other person and realize that life is shit; it's much nicer to wake up to a happy morning together and understand that in theoretical level in your mind life is shit.

Sex isn't just about 'sex'... the actual act lasts only for a moment - it's more about what happens before and after. It's a perfectly normal thing to do, it doesn't make someone less smart or more shallow to have sex on the first date. Nor does it mean that it's the only thing you're looking for. And generally speaking, people who are afraid of commitments do want commitment, but just have bad previous experiences. It's possible to get through it and find an unexpectedly great and trustworthy person behind all that.
Not to say that you need to do it, of course. Especially if you're in your teens.

Although... I'll have to agree with people being overly shallow these days and putting too much faith in sex. Especially homosexuals/bi-sexuals...
I generally find it very easy to get to know men very well and talk about all kinds of meaningful things. For some reason they seem to find it difficult to talk those things from man to man, apparently it hurts their man pride... or something? It's not so much that they wouldn't be romantic/thoughtful, just that most seem to want to hold some sort of manly image of them, which does not include being interested of why life exists, but about good looking shirts and handsome grins.
It seems to be allright for them to talk with chicks about their dreams and such; it seems to be an acceptable way to make a move on women. After all, chicks are sweet little things that fall for romantic poets. So it's not so much that they don't think... they just don't want any other males to find out. With that said, I'm sure it's possible to break that wall somehow.



or something.
I'm just a cynical bastard though, so you might want to listen more to the "you'll find someone nice some day!" comments more.

 

[AlisaD]

Oh come on, get off your clouds and just try and relax and have a bit of fun.

There's nothing wrong with a bit of shallowness, or a few drinks and some casual sex. It's all just fun.

It's not only that this search for this magical person who you will connect with on a deep intellectual level makes me want to puke, the problem is that you are missing so many wonderful, just not totally perfect people while waiting for "the one"

Fuck the one. There are so many.

 

[Cavallier]

It's not only that this search for this magical person who you will connect with on a deep intellectual level makes me want to puke, the problem is that you are missing so many wonderful, just not totally perfect people while waiting for "the one"

Fuck the one. There are so many.

Sometimes I wonder if you are my "one".

 

[MidnightGino]

I like this thread, keep it up everyone. I just turned 16 three weeks ago, and I discovered my homosexuality (well, more like finally accepted it, I was in a catholic school and have a very religious family, and everyone was always saying "Oh oh, homosexuality is all wrong, it's the Devil's path" and blah blah) and said "Screw that!" one year ago when it became even more clear to me that I wasn't straight, and I haven't told anyone I know about it. I don't fake and say I'm straight, when people ask me "so, who do you like?" I just say "someone" or "no one", and that's that. I don't know that much about the U.S., but here in Mexico, homosexuality is still in its early stages, people still say "eww" about it, and think it's a mental disorder. Yeah, Mexican society is shitty.

I've thought about coming out to some people sometimes, but then my lazy self takes over and says "uh... What for? How would I benefit from that?" and don't do it. Anyway, it feels kind of nice to have your own secret that nobody knows. An INTP thing, perhaps?

I'm surprised by how common homosexuality is here (INTP forum). At my school, in my grade, there's only one bisexual guy, and he's the shallow type. I can't believe that he's the only one out there, we're around 130 people, half of us being guys. Probably some are just lying, but it's hard to know, I've talked with a lot of them and most have told me about this girlfriend/crush they have, it's just weird. What's your take on this guys?

Finally, about the NT perspective and homosexuality thing... I think NT's are less prone to discrimination, I've observed that one thing most NTs have in common is that we want the same rights for everyone, especially INTs, because "as long as it doesn't affect my world, I'm ok with it". Well that's just how I see it, maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm right, that's what I like about this forum, you get new perspectives on things often.

 

[Methuselah]

Mexico is so odd about homosexuality, IME.

Guys will be absolutely undeniably flaming queens, but they'll constantly talk about their "wives" and everyone will accept that. Straight guys will go with other men on the side, but it is all fine unless they are the ones getting penetrated. I guess it is a lot like Roman society in that.

 

[s0nystyle]

gay bars are the greatest things invented; free drinks anyone? Nothing like getting hit on by some guys to mix things up a la Le Queens.

Oh and uhm... INTPs are asexual? or was it sapiosexual *browses*

 

[bloozie]

From my pov, the more time you spend with someone in a romantic relationship, the less you'll talk about anything interesting with them, and the more you believe you know the person (which will bring a lot of assumptions). So having someone with you who shares the same ideals and has the most interesting things to say, is not necessary. After few years of living together, you'll wake up together, then you'll share your morning coffee and you go to work/school, you meet your own friends and then you'll fall asleep together.
And occasionally there will be some sweet memories made.
As for the previous intelligent conversations you had before the relationship? not much of those left anymore.

In fact, I find it much harder to talk (about) anything important with the people I see most, as I see them every day; it becomes quite awkward. It would also bring unnecessary stress to our daily lives. I rather go to sleep with assured mind that everything's o-kay on my relationship, than stress it with stuff. It's not great to wake up, look at the other person and realize that life is shit; it's much nicer to wake up to a happy morning together and understand that in theoretical level in your mind life is shit.

You make a great point, Onis. Although, I kind of see it as a pessimistic perspective... but now you have me worried about how I have been going at it the wrong way. Then again, you may be right? To be honest, I don't have any experience whatsoever in romantic relationships. Yes... I'm being serious... I have never, ever, been in love with anyone. And I'm 24! So that's why I've started this query to understand where my place is. Is this how an INT, in general, be forever doomed to be alone in life? Maybe I don't need a relationship at all, after reading what you wrote... maybe all I really want is someone special that can think with me... (which is kind of the same thing)

It's not only that this search for this magical person who you will connect with on a deep intellectual level makes me want to puke, the problem is that you are missing so many wonderful, just not totally perfect people while waiting for "the one"

My mind has been rotting, waiting for "the one". I apologize for making you puke, but then again, I guess I'm not wired to notice the wonderful people that pass me by who can be potential mates... Actually, I have run by a few guys that I see as potential mates, but then they are heterosexual... Yep.

 

[bloozie]

I like this thread, keep it up everyone. I just turned 16 three weeks ago, and I discovered my homosexuality (well, more like finally accepted it, I was in a catholic school and have a very religious family, and everyone was always saying "Oh oh, homosexuality is all wrong, it's the Devil's path" and blah blah) and said "Screw that!" one year ago when it became even more clear to me that I wasn't straight, and I haven't told anyone I know about it. I don't fake and say I'm straight, when people ask me "so, who do you like?" I just say "someone" or "no one", and that's that. I don't know that much about the U.S., but here in Mexico, homosexuality is still in its early stages, people still say "eww" about it, and think it's a mental disorder. Yeah, Mexican society is shitty.

Wow, at 16? I accepted my homosexuality when I was 18. Back then, I started to think about when I really had feelings for guys.. and I pinpointed it to have begun when I was 8 years old. At this time, I was definitely unsure about my feelings for this guy at my school, which is totally crazy once I think about. I shoved these feelings aside because they didn't seem right to me at the time... the reason why I did this is because I was never introduced to such a thing at the time and that I only knew boys and girls were supposed to be together... I probably deducted this from the types of movies that I saw or through social media.

My family is traditional and I choose not to tell my parents that I am homosexual because... I guess I don't want to ruin their pride in their family... although to outsiders, this may be sad, but for me, I think it's necessary.. and plus, it's really on a need to know basis! So, once, if ever, I do get married, they will know then that I am homosexual... Although I think my mom knows but I don't think she wants to ask me.

And MidnightGino, if you're close to anyone and you haven't told them that you're a homosexual... open yourself up a bit. They might be surprised at first, and they may accept your or not. The thing here is that it may be hard to "act different" when you're with people that don't know about your sexuality. For me though, I don't see or express myself any differently to everyone that I know or meet. Even my close friends are still surprised to know that I'm a homosexual and I think they still have trouble accepting it...not in rejecting me... but more along the lines that I don't meet the stereotypical flamboyant homosexual that they are used to.
So yeah, I think I have more to say, but I don't know how to explain it just yet... unless you ask certain questions... I should be sleeping, though.

 

[asdfasdfasdfsdf]

And you call us shallow? "You like each other and fuck, and if you don't like each other later, you can't fuck without getting into a fight"
Saying that we don't need personality types in finding relationships because the first thing we do is fuck and if we like that then we get to know each other, and THEN we start a relationship..
That's gotta be a joke.

i think you misunderstood me.
i am saying that people, at least the ones around where i live, start a relationship on physical attraction and small talk alone. Mainstream society kind of has this unspoken standard that sex is done on the third date - and then a relationship starts..
i think that is kind of shallow and it is no wonder everyone and their brother has relationship drama.

 

[telepathink]

don't be so picky with where to find a perfect match. try anything new and you will see for yourself. There must be lots of gays on these forums, or anywhere else. If I was a gay living in SF I would be PMing you right now

 

[Jennywocky]

Finally, about the NT perspective and homosexuality thing... I think NT's are less prone to discrimination, I've observed that one thing most NTs have in common is that we want the same rights for everyone, especially INTs, because "as long as it doesn't affect my world, I'm ok with it". Well that's just how I see it, maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm right, that's what I like about this forum, you get new perspectives on things often.

Maybe, but I've also met a number of *sshat NT's online who are prejudiced because they're sheltered and still rigid within their Ti or Te mindset.

Still, NTs focus more on smarts and whether something works. And for NTPs, rules are derived from reality rather than from social norms, typically. So they're more open to things if they seem to make sense within the larger pattern.

All that being said, homosexuality has passed from being a behavior to being an identity, and it makes sense why, but I feel it can confound the issue and create its own boxes. Usually no one is 100% het or homo. It could be 99%/1% or 75/25% or some other ratio, and that preference is then influenced by cultural and experiential pressures, but really, it works better as a descriptive label than a prescriptive one.
I have been on both sides of the fence in my life and realized that while I'm almost always been attracted to guys in the overt ways, I'm still capable of running across another woman on occassion who I can fall in love with. I'm realize in reality, while there are physical things that I am attracted to or not, I'm ultimately being attracted to the person. The Straight/Gay label seems sometimes to be prohibitive rather than helpful.

 

[AlisaD]

Sometimes I wonder if you are my "one".

I might be one of them

My mind has been rotting, waiting for "the one". I apologize for making you puke, but then again, I guess I'm not wired to notice the wonderful people that pass me by who can be potential mates... Actually, I have run by a few guys that I see as potential mates, but then they are heterosexual... Yep.

Sorry if I came off a bit harsh, but a good friend of mine is gay, and has spent years doing exactly what you are doing now, waiting for the one, feeling miserable, until he finally gave up on the idea of one person fulfilling all his emotional and intellectual needs.

He started going out, meeting all kinds of people, giving them a chance. He spent years in totally shallow, short-term relationships, but at least he was getting laid and wasn't whining any more

And then he found someone special. It's really hard to do that if you don't give people a chance just because they seem shallow at first sight.

 

[Jennywocky]

Sorry if I came off a bit harsh, but a good friend of mine is gay, and has spent years doing exactly what you are doing now, waiting for the one, feeling miserable, until he finally gave up on the idea of one person fulfilling all his emotional and intellectual needs.

Yeah, I think that is a big deal for anyone (het or gay). One person can't be all those things, we're just human and need various types of relationships in our lives.

 

[Lobstrich]

i think you misunderstood me.
i am saying that people, at least the ones around where i live, start a relationship on physical attraction and small talk alone. Mainstream society kind of has this unspoken standard that sex is done on the third date - and then a relationship starts..
i think that is kind of shallow and it is no wonder everyone and their brother has relationship drama.

I might have, my bad. And what you said now is true. But what I said without the "And you call us shallow" part. I still believe, hehe.

 

[Lobstrich]

Yeah, I think that is a big deal for anyone (het or gay). One person can't be all those things, we're just human and need various types of relationships in our lives.

True, but there's no need to settle for a person you don't feel comfortable with, is there?

I realise one person can't be all another person requires.. But at least some.
And I wouldn't go into some bullshit where "Umm, like" was in every sentence.
Then I'd rather be miserable.

 

[MidnightGino]

Maybe, but I've also met a number of *sshat NT's online who are prejudiced because they're sheltered and still rigid within their Ti or Te mindset.

Still, NTs focus more on smarts and whether something works. And for NTPs, rules are derived from reality rather than from social norms, typically. So they're more open to things if they seem to make sense within the larger pattern.

All that being said, homosexuality has passed from being a behavior to being an identity, and it makes sense why, but I feel it can confound the issue and create its own boxes. Usually no one is 100% het or homo. It could be 99%/1% or 75/25% or some other ratio, and that preference is then influenced by cultural and experiential pressures, but really, it works better as a descriptive label than a prescriptive one.
I have been on both sides of the fence in my life and realized that while I'm almost always been attracted to guys in the overt ways, I'm still capable of running across another woman on occassion who I can fall in love with. I'm realize in reality, while there are physical things that I am attracted to or not, I'm ultimately being attracted to the person. The Straight/Gay label seems sometimes to be prohibitive rather than helpful.

Exactly what I think, even though most say they're 100% straight or 100% gay. Sure, I like guys, but that doesn't stop me from feeling something for a girl once in a while, though it's usually not that strong and lasts less time.

You're right, not all NT's are the same, not even all INTPs are the same, it'd be weird if 15% of the population shared the same thoughts.

Homosexuality is often seen more like a personality type instead of just orientation, unfortunately. Maybe it's because of all those parades and how they portray it in TV shows, movies, etc. Maybe they should stop using it as a comedy joke, and start saying "IT'S JUST ORIENTATION!".

 

[Jennywocky]

True, but there's no need to settle for a person you don't feel comfortable with, is there?

lol. Of course not.

The trick is making sure you don't ditch someone you could have built a good life with because you were trying to find someone who did not exist. It's not easy to figure out sometimes.

I spent 15 years in a marriage after we realized things were going to be really hard to work through. We did work through anyway, it was agonizing but rewarding... yet in the end we did end up splitting up for other reasons.

Since then I've had opportunities for other relationships. Just because I made the first one work (and still love them as part of who I am) doesn't mean I want someone like that if I get to start over again. I've found other types of people I am far more compatible with, and the ease of the relationships has been astonishing when I find someone better suited.

But no one has been perfect in every way. I need to be careful I don't let something go that I will later regret.

Getting back more on topic, it's not all even about the relationship; when I'm with a guy I don't have to think at all about our relationship or how we interact regardless of where we are, but if I'm with a woman I am suddenly aware of how much attention it can attract if I do something as simple as hold her hand in public or bring her to the office xmas party. Since I tend to be very conscious of social perception, this can be hard for me to deal with at times.

 

[MidnightGino]

Wow, at 16? I accepted my homosexuality when I was 18. Back then, I started to think about when I really had feelings for guys.. and I pinpointed it to have begun when I was 8 years old. At this time, I was definitely unsure about my feelings for this guy at my school, which is totally crazy once I think about. I shoved these feelings aside because they didn't seem right to me at the time... the reason why I did this is because I was never introduced to such a thing at the time and that I only knew boys and girls were supposed to be together... I probably deducted this from the types of movies that I saw or through social media.

My family is traditional and I choose not to tell my parents that I am homosexual because... I guess I don't want to ruin their pride in their family... although to outsiders, this may be sad, but for me, I think it's necessary.. and plus, it's really on a need to know basis! So, once, if ever, I do get married, they will know then that I am homosexual... Although I think my mom knows but I don't think she wants to ask me.

And MidnightGino, if you're close to anyone and you haven't told them that you're a homosexual... open yourself up a bit. They might be surprised at first, and they may accept your or not. The thing here is that it may be hard to "act different" when you're with people that don't know about your sexuality. For me though, I don't see or express myself any differently to everyone that I know or meet. Even my close friends are still surprised to know that I'm a homosexual and I think they still have trouble accepting it...not in rejecting me... but more along the lines that I don't meet the stereotypical flamboyant homosexual that they are used to.
So yeah, I think I have more to say, but I don't know how to explain it just yet... unless you ask certain questions... I should be sleeping, though.

Well I don't really act different, the only thing is that if I like some guy I have to be discreet, and don't stare or something like that, but I don't have a problem with it. And about telling someone close... Hmm I don't know, I don't have people that close to me, just occasional friends (very close to acquaintances), most of the time I'm either by myself or with my family, and telling my family is a no-no. Except for school, where I just sit with whoever I see first, I don't really think I have a best friend or really close friends... This may sound weird, but I think I am my best friend, and that's enough. Taking I (introversion) to the limit haha.

 

[ckm]

For the sake of simplicity I simply say "I'm gay" though it feels that there is much more to say than that. I have no intention of ruling anything out, and I detest the thought that I may steer away from a girl I am attracted to because of the title I subscribe to. However, I identify as homosexual in that in my experience so far I have found myself almost exclusively attracted to guys.

As far as relationships go I am inexperienced, but I think that would be the case whether I liked guys or not, to be honest. Sometimes I feel lonely and wish I had someone to cling on to, but usually I find that when I'm in that mindset my motives are very questionable. For the time being, I'm just seeing how things go and not actively seeking. However a week ago or so I missed an opportunity that will not come again, so hopefully that will encourage me to be more grounded in the moment in future.

 

[Lobstrich]

lol. Of course not.

The trick is making sure you don't ditch someone you could have built a good life with because you were trying to find someone who did not exist. It's not easy to figure out sometimes.

True.. But that is what's hard for most people, taking the chance.
It's a mental barrier that one has to go around, or smash through, if you're that kind of person, hehe.

 

[Kellhus]

Oh bleh.

What does it matter anyway?

You humans and your silly little categories.

Shameless omnisexual here, and I say, stop looking and start seeing.

Oh melkor, you know being a pan is way better than omni.

 

[Kellhus]

Well, at least it is so for me. Yet, I do feel sexual desire, It hasn't been fulfilled yet, though. But my desire to have a person I actually WANT to talk to, that I even miss talking to sometimes. Is what I want the most.
And finding that, being 18 is difficult. Around here, what 18 year olds do is party, get drunk, puke, drink more, and talk about how drunk you were the next day, maybe also talk about how ugly John or Mary were. And I have NO desire for those kinds of talks.

I've only met one person in my life that I actually missed talking to when we stopped talking, I wanted to share everything with her. We only knew each other for a couple of years, only really talked for 1. But I felt like I knew her better than alot of other people I know (I think she was an INFJ) I managed to push her away somehow, though, then we stopped talking. And I'm hating myself for that.

So you are saying you prioritize your want of a mutually intellectually stimulating and meaningful friendship more so than romantic relationship with such factors included, or more of a "take what is practical to want" scenario?

 

[Lobstrich]

So you are saying you prioritize your want of a mutually intellectually stimulating and meaningful friendship more so than romantic relationship with such factors included, or more of a "take what is practical to want" scenario?

As I said, I'd want a intellectually stimulating relationship (friend or partner)
rather than a dumb sexual partner. So to speak.

"romantic relationship with such factors included" If I understand this correctly;

No, if I could have a romantic relationship and still have it be a intellctually stimulating one, that'd be the greatest thing on earth for me.

I'd do anything for another chance to have a relationship with the girl I was talking about. Because I know that it'll still be an intellectual one.

 

[Jennywocky]

No, if I could have a romantic relationship and still have it be intellctually stimulating relationship, that'd be the greatest thing on earth for me.

There's a lot of life ahead.
I remember my teen years (and college too, but not as bad) feeling sort of like a wasteland.
It's hard being an abstract thinker at that age, because many of our peers will not yet have developed that part of themselves, so we're still sort of alone and misunderstood.

It does get better, the older you get; the issue more is a declining pool of options and uncertainty over where to meet someone. However, there are more people available who are compatible because by that point everyone is becoming more well-rounded and getting a sense of themselves and what matters to them.

I'd do anything for another chance to have a relationship with the girl I was talking about. Because I know that it'll still be an intellectual one.

Could you just be friends againg, to start with?
Or is the friendship completely shot?

 

[Lobstrich]

There's a lot of life ahead.
I remember my teen years (and college too, but not as bad) feeling sort of like a wasteland.
It's hard being an abstract thinker at that age, because many of our peers will not yet have developed that part of themselves, so we're still sort of alone and misunderstood.

It does get better, the older you get; the issue more is a declining pool of options and uncertainty over where to meet someone. However, there are more people available who are compatible because by that point everyone is becoming more well-rounded and getting a sense of themselves and what matters to them.



Could you just be friends againg, to start with?
Or is the friendship completely shot?

Well I enjoy not being like everyone else. It's just alot tougher, yeah. But that's how it goes =)

And no, I think the friendship is completely shot.. We talked alot for that one year, I can be quite blunt. And I must have insulted her. Because she ended up giving me a message saying we shouldn't talk.

The "funny" thing is that as we started to get to know each other I linked all this MBTI stuff to her. I linked her the "portrait of an INTP" Which I think is faily accurate (at least on me, it's insanely accurate)
And we talked about that a couple of day. And she kind of acknowledge that I am blunt and I prefer ANY truth, good or bad. Above a lie or excuse.
And I told her to tell me if she had ANY problems. I would not get insulted at all. I would take it as an advice, to "improve" myself.

And in my ignorance, I thought she would the same. She had this friend which was kind of preventing her from enjoying the world, I mean really. Every time me and her were togethher messages came in constantly about nonsense dragging her away, she even stopped talking to her very best friend because of that other person. Because she somehow got turned into believing that she was no good.

And I told her that, I told her that it was painful for me to see it. Not only throwing away af 18 year relationship with her best friend but also shutting me out. And I wanted her to talk to her friend about it.
And well, she felt that I was being unfair, that I should say that kind of stuff about her friend and the day after I gave her a ring telling her that I was sorry about all the noise a I had made about that friend (And apologies come rarely from me, because I never do anything I think is objectively unfair. Or is against my beliefs. But I thought that I could have done it in a less insulting manner) And she went "Oh, okay... Sure. Thanks" And got that message basically saying "bye" 1 hour later.

I talked to her best friend, whom we have in common (Not as a best friend, just friend. Hehe) And I told her the story, and she told me that she had experienced the same thing.. Not a direct goodbye, like mine. But a more subtle shutout.


So yes, I do think it's comepletly shot.


(Sorry for typos, can't be bothered to go through a wall, lol)

 

[bloozie]

As far as relationships go I am inexperienced, but I think that would be the case whether I liked guys or not, to be honest. Sometimes I feel lonely and wish I had someone to cling on to, but usually I find that when I'm in that mindset my motives are very questionable. For the time being, I'm just seeing how things go and not actively seeking. However a week ago or so I missed an opportunity that will not come again, so hopefully that will encourage me to be more grounded in the moment in future.

I think i'm in the same situation right now, but I'm just assuming that this guy is interested in me even though the few times that we have crossed paths, he would be talking to me and smiling... although most of my comments toward him during our "conversations" have been short and to the point... I may end up coming off to him as an arrogant jerk, even though I'm kinda interested in him. The reason being is that he's in the same major as I am and I'm passionate about talking about things related to what I'm studying... and I'm hoping that he is too, so perhaps something awesome could come from it.

 

[bloozie]

Hmm I don't know, I don't have people that close to me, just occasional friends (very close to acquaintances), most of the time I'm either by myself or with my family, and telling my family is a no-no. Except for school, where I just sit with whoever I see first, I don't really think I have a best friend or really close friends... This may sound weird, but I think I am my best friend, and that's enough. Taking I (introversion) to the limit haha.

I guess that I could relate to what you're saying about not having friends during high school. I mean, I knew a lot of people and people knew me, but that was basically where it ended. Although, I had three friends that I hung around with most of the time at school and they were a fun bunch of quiet people. You know, you should figure out who you would love to hang out with at school because eventually they will be your friends for the rest of your time there. I wouldn't want to see anyone hanging out by themselves all alone, ever... And this is a quote that I thought up of.. "A person that walks alone has a story to tell, yet no one walks with him to listen to it."

... How I see it is that anyone.. even introverted types... will always have a desire to speak about anything that they are passionate about. Don't be a recluse, from my experience, it's not worth it. Although I had no yearning to hang out with people that went to parties every weekend, I was able to connect with only a few people with whom I spoke to on just about anything... The three friends that I hung out with were the first people with whom I came out to, also. They were accepting and I felt lucky. They were not the type to make really insensitive jokes about homosexuality unlike some other people that I knew during high school. Ultimately, what I'm saying is that you will inevitably want to belong to a small group of people who understand you and accept you.. find them, I'm sure you will... It's just not worth it going at it alone at your age.

 

[ShipwreckSilence]

While a bar might not be the most promising place to find a serious partner, it might be a good place to make some friends, who in turn can introduce you to their friends, who might be very smart and attractive.

The biggest problem with being gay and not particularly flamboyant is that nobody knows to ask you unless you're in a place that makes it obvious.

As for an NT prospective on dating I think, if anything, we probably analyze everything too much and forget to actually get out there and make waves. To avoid this, I just assume everyone must obviously be attracted to me, which saves me the trouble of trying to decipher their intentions.

 

[Jennywocky]

The "funny" thing is that as we started to get to know each other I linked all this MBTI stuff to her. I linked her the "portrait of an INTP" Which I think is faily accurate (at least on me, it's insanely accurate) . And we talked about that a couple of day. And she kind of acknowledge that I am blunt and I prefer ANY truth, good or bad. Above a lie or excuse. And I told her to tell me if she had ANY problems. I would not get insulted at all. I would take it as an advice, to "improve" myself.

Yeah, I can really relate to that part.

Even if something hurts, esp if someone is sharing something out of concern, I just deal with it as constructive feedback. Even if it's a person who is just being mean, I might push back on the surface but inside I still ask myself if what they said is true, because I want to be honest with myself and become a better human being. It's not even something I try to do, it's instinctive -- I need to question, understand, and improve myself.

But not everyone is like that.

And in my ignorance, I thought she would the same.

Yeah. Who wouldn't?
But it's never that simple.

She had this friend which was kind of preventing her from enjoying the world, I mean really. Every time me and her were togethher messages came in constantly about nonsense dragging her away, she even stopped talking to her very best friend because of that other person. Because she somehow got turned into believing that she was no good.

And I told her that, I told her that it was painful for me to see it. Not only throwing away af 18 year relationship with her best friend but also shutting me out. And I wanted her to talk to her friend about it.
And well, she felt that I was being unfair, that I should say that kind of stuff about her friend and the day after I gave her a ring telling her that I was sorry about all the noise a I had made about that friend (And apologies come rarely from me, because I never do anything I think is objectively unfair. Or is against my beliefs. But I thought that I could have done it in a less insulting manner) And she went "Oh, okay... Sure. Thanks" And got that message basically saying "bye" 1 hour later.

I talked to her best friend, whom we have in common (Not as a best friend, just friend. Hehe) And I told her the story, and she told me that she had experienced the same thing.. Not a direct goodbye, like mine. But a more subtle shutout.

Uggh. Well, I'm sorry... it sucks to be punished for being honest, even if you could have been honest in a more tactful fashion. It sounds like you tried to make amends.

Just to give you some more ideas to work with, I've been involved in the "third wheel friend bad for you" scenario on BOTH ends... as the person telling the truth AND as the person with the flawed friend who is having something told to me. (I try like hell, though, never to play the role of the annoying, clingy third friend. Shoot me now if I ever become that.)

I think something to remember is just to tread carefully, especially if you don't know the depth of the relationship. Relationships never seem to be all bad, there are usually some good moments along with the bad ones. So while your assessment might have been correct about her friend's behavior as far as you could see it, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a lot of positive and private stuff that was still binding them together; it's frustrating to me when one of my friends is dissing another one of my friends for being "bad for me" or misreading my other friend's behavior that I've already analzyed; it's often not as simple as it looks. Now I have a situation where I feel forced to choose between my friends.

Of course, there's also a good chance she just didn't want to deal with it, especially since another friend had the same issues you did (it's becoming a pattern this particular girl); but I'm just noting that, sometimes, your first assessment is not nuanced or is missing a lot of the behind the scenes aspects of the relationship, so it's best to ask lots of questions first, to find out more, before giving someone the "Sledgehammer of Reality" talk.

FWIW.

Sorry things look like they won't recover there.

 

[Lobstrich]

I think something to remember is just to tread carefully, especially if you don't know the depth of the relationship. Relationships never seem to be all bad, there are usually some good moments along with the bad ones. So while your assessment might have been correct about her friend's behavior as far as you could see it, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a lot of positive and private stuff that was still binding them together; it's frustrating to me when one of my friends is dissing another one of my friends for being "bad for me" or misreading my other friend's behavior that I've already analzyed; it's often not as simple as it looks. Now I have a situation where I feel forced to choose between my friends.

Of course, there's also a good chance she just didn't want to deal with it, especially since another friend had the same issues you did (it's becoming a pattern this particular girl); but I'm just noting that, sometimes, your first assessment is not nuanced or is missing a lot of the behind the scenes aspects of the relationship, so it's best to ask lots of questions first, to find out more, before giving someone the "Sledgehammer of Reality" talk.

FWIW.

Sorry things look like they won't recover there.

Yeah, well that's the thing. I did actually talk alot about the friend.
Asked alot of questions, and they did genuinely care alot about each other.
But I wouldn't have said it any other way, because she WAS being locked up.

FWIW?? Can't say I know what that means, hehe.

And yeah, probably wont recover.
But that's how things goes, I can whine as much as I want. Nothing is ever going to change, too bad.

 

[nexion]

If there are any members in here that identify as femal... I honestly need your help...
Here's my rant: For the past year or so, I have been contemplating reasons as to why I haven't been in a relationship with a girl, ever. I identify as being heterosexual, but I just can't seem to ever find a girl that I can connect with on a more intellectual level and who identifies as being heterosexual. I know a few girls that I can talk to with whom I am able to stimulate my mind with, but they only exist on the internet. And the type of relationship that I'm looking for is more of an Intellectual type rather than a Sexual type. What I'm getting at here is that I want to know if this is considered "normal" for NT types or perhaps INT's? And how do/would you break away from "normalcy"?
----------------------------------------------------
people are shallow as hell
relationships dont start off on personality any more, and they arent a key factor until later.
it seems, to me, that if you find eachother attractive, you go out, you fuck
and if they like your attractiveness and performance so far, you get into a relationship and roll the dice hoping their personality isnt so fucking different from yours that you cant fuck without getting into a fight.

i think your situation has little to do with homosexuality and most to do with our generation being SO FUCKING SHALLOW IT PISSES ME OFF (and i am very cool headed)

i dont mean anything against you, but personal experience wise, every homosexual guy that i have known was gay talked in that lisp frequently and dressed "fabulous" and had a "im going to act like a girl attitude" so it would seem that the shallowness in the homosexual guy community is much denser than outside of it (although my data could be VERY affected by the fact these shallow types are much more noticeable than the ones that arent)

social/politically i think i speak for every intp here (as long as enola is gone) that everyone here things homosexuals are equals and deserve every right anyone else has (i feel like intps are less likely to be biggots - dont let me down community)

Goddamn it that pisses me off too. No one cares about intellect or personality anymore. They want money, or sex. Or booze. I couldn't even begin to delve into my hate-filled rage for those types of people.

Ahem. As for the nature of homosexuality... I personally am not homosexual. Politically, I think homosexuals should have the same rights as everyone else, and furthermore, this issue is so clear-cut amongst politicians that they miss other, more important issues, such as the economy and world affairs. I question why any politician wouldn't want a person to have equal rights to everyone else? Why are republicans so intent on not having homosexual marriage? Fucking traditionalists.

I'm assuming that all INTPs would prefer this type of process, right? Because for me, I express this desire, but rarely do I feel any sexual desire... perhaps I don't have any? Perhaps I should consider myself to be Homoasexual.

I have sexual desire sometimes... a better question to me would be, is it healthy to suppress sexual desire?

Oh come on, get off your clouds and just try and relax and have a bit of fun.

There's nothing wrong with a bit of shallowness, or a few drinks and some casual sex. It's all just fun.

It's not only that this search for this magical person who you will connect with on a deep intellectual level makes me want to puke, the problem is that you are missing so many wonderful, just not totally perfect people while waiting for "the one"

Fuck the one. There are so many.

I respectfully disagree.