Homosexuality

[ckm]

It has been scientifically documented, through both biology and psychology. Nature and nurture both have a role in determining whether one becomes homosexual. The exact debate is how much each one plays a role.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080617151845.htm
http://allpsych.com/journal/homosexuality.html

There's no clear-cut theory to this or anything explaining whether babies can literally be BORN gay, but it is certain that it is a mix of biological and environmental factors.

I read both of those, and it was quite interesting. However, there were many more examples of biological relationships (physical similarities and differences in brains etc.) with homosexuality than psychological/sociocultural reasons. Also, I would say that the latter were not examples of "scientific documentations", rather they were theories without scientific evidence. I'm not dismissing anything, but scientifically speaking, judging from what you have provided, there are more reasons to believe that sexuality is a matter of nature.

Anyway, I don't see how this is proof that sexuality is a result of both nurture and nature.

Why would a man raised in a homosexual home NOT be more likely to be homosexual, and why would someone raised in a Christian home who view homosexuality as a sin NOT be heterosexual. Of course, it still does sometimes happen, and that discrepancy can be related to the biological factors of some people being born with more of a predisposition to become homosexual later in life than other.

Both of those could be accounted for the openness to (in the case of a child raised by same-sex parents (I'm assuming that's what you meant by "a homosexual home")) or rejection of (in the case of the other) homosexuality. A person raised in the latter may in fact be homosexual but would not express it, because s/he was taught it was a sin; likewise in the former, the person would be comfortable with expressing his/her homosexuality because s/he was (assumedly) taught that it is acceptable to do so. A person does not become homosexual when they express it.

 

[ckm]

I was, is, and always will be saying that being homosexual isn't a choice. But it is still a result of saying that. You JUST said that you agree that sexuality can't be fully developed at birth. I assumed context was clear enough to represent in my post that I also was saying sexuality can't be FULLY realized at birth, not saying it wasn't developed at all. But even if someone is born with a predisposition to be homosexual, it by no means follows that the baby is going to be homosexual. So babies aren't literally BORN gay.

I believe what Trebuchet is say is that, like handedness, sexuality is not expressed the moment one is born, but that does not mean the final result of its development can be altered.

 

[SpaceYeti]

Whether being gay is natural or a choice, why does it matter? Is it bad if you can make the choice? If you cannot? Why would that make a difference. Right and wrong are how you judge actions regardless why someone does them (hence my considering hate crimes stupid. The crime should be the crime, not motive. Killing a dude is killing a dude regardless why you did it). Anyhow... I think I already stated my point...

 

[IfloatTHRUlife]

Short sweet and to the point, I'm heterosexual, i cant imagine why two men would be sexually attracted to each other, i do think that it is pretty disturbing and that there is probably something wrong with homosexuals, but at the same time, i can accept that its their decision, and even see it from the perspective that, a lot of people probably see my Intp personality traits and assume something is seriously wrong with me. And i know that i hate being judged for my thoughts and lifestyle, so it just seems more rational to me to just not care whether someone is gay or not. I would never persecute a homosexual for being the way they are, but i wont lie about my opinion if they ask me what i think, since i would expect someone to be honest if i asked them if they thought i was kind of weird. (and yes i'm comparing being gay to being an Intp for this posts purposes LOL, whether i think being gay is a choice or not, while being an intp is obviously not)

 

[Trebuchet]

I was, is, and always will be saying that being homosexual isn't a choice. But it is still a result of saying that. You JUST said that you agree that sexuality can't be fully developed at birth. I assumed context was clear enough to represent in my post that I also was saying sexuality can't be FULLY realized at birth, not saying it wasn't developed at all. But even if someone is born with a predisposition to be homosexual, it by no means follows that the baby is going to be homosexual. So babies aren't literally BORN gay.

How do you know? Maybe they are. If you agree that sexual identity is PARTLY developed at birth, how do you know that isn't one of the already developed parts?

Yes, sexuality isn't FULLY realized at birth, obviously. Girls develop breasts and boys' voices deepen years after being born. But that doesn't mean the structures of the brain or endocrine system or whatever, that determine sexuality, aren't fully developed at birth.

I agree that logically, "predisposition to homosexuality at birth" does not imply "going to be homosexual." But you are making the assumption that it is merely a predisposition, and I don't think you can know that. I am saying that it is equally logical that "homosexual at birth" implies "homosexual in adulthood."

 

[jachian]

Which is fine. You aren't required to be a practicing homosexual.

I think what hets fail to get is that someone who identifies as homosexual is as repulsed and unfulfilled by having to be in a het relationship as much as a het person would feel repulsed and unfulfilled being forced to be in a homosexual relationship.

I also doubt there is anything you can imagine -- any form of drug or therapy -- that would allow you to no longer identify as het and suddenly only want to be in same-sex relationships. In fact, the very concept probably seems insane to you, depending on how strong your het tendencies are. Like it or not, you probably strongly feel that you have the best chance for fulfillment and self-maturation within a het relationship.

Does that allow you to understand the situation better?

Ps. No, I'm not gay.

Wait ....... a practicing homosexual ?!..............

So you mean that there are homosexuals that dont practice ?...........

So your pretty much alluding that one does not have to actually have homosexual relationships in order to be a homosexual...... is that right?........

Okay..... so would you say that it is also possible for a het to have homosexual relationship and not be a homosexual?..............

so then what is the conclusion of the matter...... what really is this thing call homosexuality....... how can we properly define it....... and not just that but het and sexuality as a whole..........

 

[typus]

Wait ....... a practicing homosexual ?!..............

So you mean that there are homosexuals that dont practice ?...........

So your pretty much alluding that one does not have to actually have homosexual relationships in order to be a homosexual...... is that right?........

Okay..... so would you say that it is also possible for a het to have homosexual relationship and not be a homosexual?..............

so then what is the conclusion of the matter...... what really is this thing call homosexuality....... how can we properly define it....... and not just that but het and sexuality as a whole..........

obviously there are homosexuals who don't engage in homosexual relationships, and homosexuals being in heterosexual relationships is very usual... the sexuality is based on what your attracted to, not what you actually do

 

[jachian]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality:

A homosexual is someone who suffers from this condition. I'm not being serious.


Now, considering the above definition, does the thought of homosexuality still make your skin crawl? Basically, I'm asking which of these you meant:

• the thought of the concept of homosexuality, i.e. any given person who is romantically or sexually attracted to members of the same sex, or;
• the thought of a sexual act between two members of the same sex.

The two are not synonymous.

.......... Thats a very subjective definition.........

Actually both still make my skin crawl.........

Actually the first one...... ie any given person who is romantically attracted to members of the the same sex....... this makes me scared ..... this sounds really ....... I dont know why........... maybe the thought of being hit on or seeing one homosexual hit on another....... yeah scary stuff.....

the second still makes my skin crawl............

 

[SpaceYeti]

what really is this thing call homosexuality

Being sexually attracted to someone of your own sex and not to people of the opposite sex. It's pretty simple.