Have you ever noticed ESxP types seem to relate to their Inferior more than any other type?

[Adymus]

A really good friend of mine whom I have known for about 8 years now is an ESTP. Every now and Then we'll watch some show or movie together like Psyche, or Sherlock Holmes, or the mentalist, about a really bad ass Ni dominant type (Actually I'd say the mentalist is ENFJ, but you get what I mean) who uses their Se inferior to take notice of some details, and their Ni to make massive leaps and connections to solve the mystery.

So my ESTP friend will see this and say "Dude, that's totally me! That is exactly what I do!"

And I'll say "Welll... meh.. No, not really. Okay so you notice details, god know you notice fucking everything."

ESTP: "Right!"

Me: "Right, but the amount of imagination, speculation, and cross contextualizing that these people are using is way more than the amount you are. They have an emphasis on Making intuitive leaps from something they noticed, while you have an emphasis on noticing as many things as possible.

ESTP: "But I've made leaps and connections connections too!"

Me: "Yeah but when you do it, they are only slight leaps, as opposed to these guys who are making giant leaps that are seemingly paradoxical or contradictory to what it is that they noticed."

Basically I continue to explain the Difference between using Se dominance and Ni dominance while avoiding using MBTI terminology. Yet he still see the two as one and the same.

I had an ESFP Exgirlfriend who was trying to become a crime scene investigator and saw herself in the same way as the ESTP above. It's actually normal for people to have a "fetishy" relationship with their inferior, and want to get really good at it. But I have only seen ESxPs look at someone use their Ni at Ni dominant level and say "Hey! That person is exactly like me!"

I definitely like getting good at activities that require Good Fe as well, but I've never once Looked at an ENFJ move the room with their Fe and say "Yup, this guy is exactly like me."

Likewise, you are also not going to see an ISTJ watch an ENTP bounce rapidly off of possibilities and relate to that at all. On the contrary they would say "HEY STOP THAT! There are no possibilities, this is the way it is!"

I think the reason they might relate however, is because there is a very apparent connection between Ni and Se, that is not as apparent as other polar functions. Ni and Se can communicate back and forth in such a way that I think is a bit clearer, than how Ti and Fe communicate or Ne and Si; However I think all polar functions have the same capability.
Both Se and Ni are both in some way, sensual functions. For Se the sensation comes from the 5 senses, and with Ni the sensation comes from the imagination. This is why the two can work from Se to Ni, where a person gathers detailed information in the present reality, and then uses Ni to paint a bigger picture based off of that. Or from Ni to Se, where the person builds a model or design in Ni and then brings in into the world with Se. Much like how Tolkien was able to illustrate his Middle earth, down to the very last detail into something tangible. Or how an INTJ can design a deathstar (or whatever it is INTJs like making), and breath life into it by actually creating it.

 

[Starfruit M.E.]

I'm having trouble understanding what you are saying, but I do think that certain types do like to think they are better (for instance, smarter) than they really are. Like they think they can be Sherlock Holmes... (like you said in your example) and they don't really have abilities to that level. Maybe these are the same people who seem to be optimists. lol

 

[Words]

I think ESTP's can be sherlock holmes. Its all in the matter of strengthening both of their strengths and weaknesses. Holmes might've even started that way.

 

[Adymus]

I think ESTP's can be sherlock holmes. Its all in the matter of strengthening both of their strengths and weaknesses. Holmes might've even started that way.

This isn't about whether or not they could be Sherlock Holmes, I don't doubt it either.
I'm pointing out how odd it is that can see an INTJ or INFJ mind and think they their mind works the exact same way.

 

[Agent Intellect]

My brother is ISTP, and I do notice that he can make a lot of intuitive leaps while watching movies and so forth that I can't. He has predicted the outcomes of movies and TV shows more times then I can count, but I guess ISTP's have Ni as an even more developed trait then ESTP's.

But, this could be attributed to the fact that our least developed trait, in the case of an INTP our Fe, is sort of the trait that seems to be used "behind the scenes" (ie, without us really noticing it). For us this ends up being our social chameleon tendencies, for an ESTP it's probably the ability to make intuitive leaps.

 

[Adymus]

My brother is ISTP, and I do notice that he can make a lot of intuitive leaps while watching movies and so forth that I can't. He has predicted the outcomes of movies and TV shows more times then I can count, but I guess ISTP's have Ni as an even more developed trait then ESTP's.

But, this could be attributed to the fact that our least developed trait, in the case of an INTP our Fe, is sort of the trait that seems to be used "behind the scenes" (ie, without us really noticing it). For us this ends up being our social chameleon tendencies, for an ESTP it's probably the ability to make intuitive leaps.

That's actually a really good point, because even for an ENFJ it is Ti that works behind the scenes as well, in calibrating their approach to using their Fe. So it is a bit less conscious for both the Ti dominant and the Fe dominant. For the Se dominant and Ni dominant it is a kind of speculation that they are both consciously taking part in, so naturally they are going to be naturally aware of that side of themselves in ways that we are not.

 

[Auburn]

I notice this too. I have a younger ESTP brother who was fascinated with Death Note and had a fetish for their massive use of intuition. He'd occasionally also comment on how he was thinking the same thing as L/Light but at the time I simply chuckled and passed it off as him just wishing he had their traits so much that he starts believing that he does.

However, now that you bring this up, I have to admit that ESTPs [Se-Ti-Fe-Ni] at least have Ni in their top four. Me being INTP, i don't even have it in the top four, but instead buried somewhere deep within my subconscious - so it makes sense that he can use Ni, his inferior function, better than me even at this early age.

Taking into consideration that each type has two pairs of polar opposites that define their top four functions, it does seem natural for types to identify with their "opposites" doesn't it? Dominant Ti users might identify (i.e. "that sounds like me!") with another person's usage of Fe in a situation because in essence, it's also part of who they are (granted likely underdeveloped) - and the same applies for all other functions.

***
​

Actually those I notice this phenomena in more are usually ISTPs as opposed to ESxPs. I've had/have three ISTP friends, who I've interacted with on a daily basis, and all of them considered themselves to be N types instead. They claim to be INTJ, INFJ and INTP, however I've known several other INs before and the difference is very clear to me.

I suppose this may be because ISTPs have Ni as their third function, not fourth like ESxPs? I think it may also be because they're introverts and they see N as more introverted function and S being more extroverted - thus naturally gravitate more to N? Just some thoughts..

 

[Anthile]

Hmm, I read somewhere that it is supposed to be rather easy for INFJs and ESTPs to slip into their respective shadow types. Maybe it has something to do with that.

 

[echoplex]

I think the attention to detail of an Se-dom gives them a kind of certainty about their environment that is somewhat akin to the certainty of POV than an Ni-dom has.

To contrast, looking at Si-Ne, I think Ne makes any feeling of certainty hard to come by. Ne-doms probably hate certainty anyway, and are likely to avoid it by design. Whereas the Si-dom avoids anything that doesn't seem certain to them.

That's not to say an Se-dom is concerned with certainty; they likely aren't. But their extroverted perception is directed at something more tangible, and thus a feeling of mastery is more likely to develop than for an Ne-dom, whose perception is directed at things that are more abstract.

I suppose this may be because ISTPs have Ni as their third function, not fourth like ESxPs? I think it may also be because they're introverts and they see N as more introverted function and S being more extroverted - thus naturally gravitate more to N? Just some thoughts..

Yes, I've read that people supposedly often find it more comfortable (there's probably a better word though) to use their tertiary function than their auxiliary one, at least when they're younger, because it always has the same attitude (E/I) as their dominant one, so perhaps it's easier for an introvert to keep using introverted functions (for a while at least) than switch to an extroverted one. There was some wiki that called it "tertiary temptation" where people will refrain from better developing their 2nd function for the comfort of the familiar attitude of the 3rd. This might explain the ISTP gravitating towards Ni, especially if said ISTP is uncomfortable with extroverted activities.

 

[Adymus]

I notice this too. I have a younger ESTP brother who was fascinated with Death Note and had a fetish for their massive use of intuition. He'd occasionally also comment on how he was thinking the same thing as L/Light but at the time I simply chuckled and passed it off as him just wishing he had their traits so much that he starts believing that he does.

However, now that you bring this up, I have to admit that ESTPs [Se-Ti-Fe-Ni] at least have Ni in their top four. Me being INTP, i don't even have it in the top four, but instead buried somewhere deep within my subconscious - so it makes sense that he can use Ni, his inferior function, better than me even at this early age.

Taking into consideration that each type has two pairs of polar opposites that define their top four functions, it does seem natural for types to identify with their "opposites" doesn't it? Dominant Ti users might identify (i.e. "that sounds like me!") with another person's usage of Fe in a situation because in essence, it's also part of who they are (granted likely underdeveloped) - and the same applies for all other functions.

***
​

Actually those I notice this phenomena in more are usually ISTPs as opposed to ESxPs. I've had/have three ISTP friends, who I've interacted with on a daily basis, and all of them considered themselves to be N types instead. They claim to be INTJ, INFJ and INTP, however I've known several other INs before and the difference is very clear to me.

I suppose this may be because ISTPs have Ni as their third function, not fourth like ESxPs? I think it may also be because they're introverts and they see N as more introverted function and S being more extroverted - thus naturally gravitate more to N? Just some thoughts..

In some way we will all identify with our polar functions. For example I've noticed INTP, whether they know they are an INTP for not have an aspiration to Fe. Someone on another thread talked about how when you complement an INTP don't do it for how they look, but how they think. INTPs like all Fe users want to be liked, but we want to be liked for what we do best, Ti. Every now and Then I'll see myself in a good ESFJ friend of mine. She's also my hairstylist, so I'll ask her some question, and then she'll give me this sweet Ti-Ne explanation of how the Chemistry of the dyes or chemicals she is using effects my hair. Or someone will insult her and she will give this "I don't give a shit what you think" response, and I'll be silently thinking "You go girl, You Ti that bitch all the way to the bank."
ESFJ hairstylists actually have really good use of all of their functions. A person will tell them what hairstyle they want, and then they'll use Si to relate it to their inner historical model of how they have seen it look. Then they will use Ne to alter that model so it can relate better to what that person is going for. Then they use Ti to calibrate how it will all be executed.

Okay I kind of got off topic there, what was I talking about? Right, polar functions.

I personally have actually found myself identifying with another a stronger Fe using type. However, it is mainly the INFJ style of using Fe that I identify with, rather than The ESFJ style. I like being the guy that seems really reserved, and then when it is my turn to talk I just bust out with a bunch of extroverted energy. INTPs and INFJs actually use Fe in a very similar style, because we both take advantage of our ability to abstract Fe and then use Ti to calibrate how we will deliver our articulation for maximum effect (Well, INTPs who get good at using Fe do this anyhow.)

Hmm, I actually don't know too many ISxPs but yeah it would make sense that they would identify with Ni even more than an ESxP. Interestingly enough however, in my own experience, ESFPs are the most reluctant to come to terms with themselves being sensors. But I think both of what we are talking about is still rather interesting just because this pattern of identifying with your Opposite type still does seem to show up mostly with those who have Se over Ni. Another reason for this is that they experience the drain of polar functions less than anybody. You can go a whole week and avoid Ni if you wanted to. However as soon as an INFJ wakes up, they feel the drain of Se. As soon as an INTP interacts with another person, they feel the drain of Fe. It doesn't work like that with ESxPs, they actually have to make an effort to go into Ni, and when they do, they can do it on their own terms to minimize how much energy it is actually taking. They never really have it forced onto them like most of us do with our inferior functions. With that said, I think a lot of us develop and adversarial relationship to our Inferior functions that might make us more reluctant to identify with them than ESxPs.

 

[Adymus]

Hmm, I read somewhere that it is supposed to be rather easy for INFJs and ESTPs to slip into their respective shadow types. Maybe it has something to do with that.

INFJs and ESTPs are an opposite that act a lot like two sides of the same coin. For instance they are both known for being "Tricksters". On one hand you have the ESTP con artist that can sell you into any deal just buy going off of how sweet it's bells and whistles are, and use their Fe to read and influence you into sealing the deal.

And then you have the INFJ who can completely fuck with by developing a character that they play in their Ni, acting it out and also reading your response with their Fe, calibrate their approach with their Ti, and the make detailed performances with their Se. Think Sasha Baron Cohen.

 

[Auburn]

However, it is mainly the INFJ style of using Fe that I identify with, rather than The ESFJ style. I like being the guy that seems really reserved, and then when it is my turn to talk I just bust out with a bunch of extroverted energy. INTPs and INFJs actually use Fe in a very similar style, because we both take advantage of our ability to abstract Fe and then use Ti to calibrate how we will deliver our articulation for maximum effect (Well, INTPs who get good at using Fe do this anyhow.)

This! =^^=
I absolutely love how INFJs use their Fe!
At least from my experience, it's a lot more shy, passive and childlike than how other types use theirs. I find it so adorable <3. I identify a lot with them, and usually befriend them rather quickly. An INFJ with a developed Ti would have me swoon.

 

[Anthile]

This! =^^=
I absolutely love how INFJs use their Fe!
At least from my experience, it's a lot more shy, passive and childlike than how other types use theirs. I find it so adorable <3. I identify a lot with them, and usually befriend them rather quickly. An INFJ with a developed Ti would have me swoon.

@Adymus: Very true, I think. That's where I read it btw: http://typelogic.com/infj.html

 

[Adymus]

This! =^^=
I absolutely love how INFJs use their Fe!
At least from my experience, it's a lot more shy, passive and childlike than how other types use theirs. I find it so adorable <3. I can identify a lot with them, and usually befriend them instantly. An INFJ with a developed Ti would have me swoon.

Have you ever been to a poetry reading? There is always this super reserved and angry INFJ sitting in the corner, and then when it is his or her turn to read, he'll walk up to the stage, stair at the ground for a few seconds, and then BAM! Unleashes this massive explosion of Fe and Se theatrics, that just catches everybody off guard.

I want that! I so want to be that guy!


You would like a good friend of mine then, his Ti is so well developed it's scary sometimes. Seeing how he uses his Ti has actually taught me a lot about how I use my own.

 

[Adymus]

@Adymus: Very true, I think. That's where I read it btw: http://typelogic.com/infj.html

This also reminds me of a friend of mine who is an INFJ martial artist. He's told me about how whenever he goes up against Se dominant opponents who just blitzkreig him with a flurry of aggressive attacks, he will go into this mode where he matches the same "Go go go" style they are using.

 

[walfin]

My brother is ISTP, and I do notice that he can make a lot of intuitive leaps while watching movies and so forth that I can't. He has predicted the outcomes of movies and TV shows more times then I can count, but I guess ISTP's have Ni as an even more developed trait then ESTP's.

That might be because movies appeal to SP types more. I'm not sure about this but I think many people in the entertainment industry are SPs.

But that aside, I don't think a dominant Ni type, INTJ, for instance, would have noticed so many details. These characters are just very unlikely to exist in real life.

 

[Adymus]

That might be because movies appeal to SP types more. I'm not sure about this but I think many people in the entertainment industry are SPs.

But that aside, I don't think a dominant Ni type, INTJ, for instance, would have noticed so many details. These characters are just very unlikely to exist in real life.

Definitely not, the majority of the super famous actors we see are Ns. (My friends an I do a lot of celebrity typing... and I really mean A LOT.) NFs, I would say is biggest majority.


I find it pretty believable actually. An INTJ wouldn't feed on EVERY detail, only the ones that send them off on Ni leaps, they rest they will forget.

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

I have to say my ESFP husband has never made such claims. Ni seems to scare him. I'd say he's more prone to initially believing conspiracy theories and getting all excited about them. But then he thinks about it some more and the practical side of him realizes it's pretty stupid so he drops it.

 

[Sparrow]

Have you ever been to a poetry reading? There is always this super reserved and angry INFJ sitting in the corner, and then when it is his or her turn to read, he'll walk up to the stage, stair at the ground for a few seconds, and then BAM! Unleashes this massive explosion of Fe and Se theatrics, that just catches everybody off guard.

I want that! I so want to be that guy!


You would like a good friend of mine then, his Ti is so well developed it's scary sometimes. Seeing how he uses his Ti has actually taught me a lot about how I use my own.

That reminds me of myself. At least the first paragraph. Lmao.

 

[kibou]

I've noticed this pattern a lot, mostly with ESFPs. Especially if they take some online test on their own, they come out as ENFP, but everything about them is ESFP (I'm thinking of multiple people off the top of my head), especially their eye movements. A lot of ESFPs I've known are pretty appreciative of the magic of Ni when it does concretely insightful things they're not sure how happened, and have kinda romantic notions of it (general affectionate references to quantum physics and stuff...often ISFPs too). It's to the point that I've wondered if maybe there's a number of mistyped ENFPs who are actually ESFPs, because I don't meet that many ENFPs, at least it seems much less than 5%.

I also wonder how often we attract specific types, or how patterned types are in certain demographics (ESPECIALLY universities or majors).

Also...I wonder if how Te looks different in ENFPs compared to ESFPs? I notice it mostly when the two go into leadership positions, but I've met more ENFPs using Te naturally and I've wondered why.

 

[Words]

I think ESTP's can be sherlock holmes. Its all in the matter of strengthening both of their strengths and weaknesses. Holmes might've even started that way.

How did I interpret the OP this way? Ah, fallacious mindset of collective understanding of thoughts. damn projection. And I even concluded a false premise of Holmes' "fantasy-realm" existing. -_-"

-----

Back to the topic:

The vivid(obvious) ESxP's I've encountered, granted type based on my judgment alone, all have their fair displays of Inferior Ni. Likewise, the most vivid INFJ.

I guess their ineptitude adds into the visibility of their type.

All observed INTJ's, on the other hand, show no significant Se difficulty.

Perhaps there is relationship between Judgement and Perceiving Functions in regards to Dominant-Inferior "slip"?

All of that said, I judge my experiences to be too limited to formulate sound pattern.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Adymus I agree with your hypothesis and observations. Though it is not just ESxP, that's just the only type you noticed. *This is why I say MBTI is flawed. An extravert's inferior is their complement while introverts relatively have all the wrong functions attributed to their essence. INTPs should be Ni-Te-Fi-Se and our complement is Se. Which is shown in the hoarding of pictures, music, videos, gifts etc to recapture the essence of objects or memories to feed into our Ni. We also overestimate the amount of energy tasks would take in the external world and become anxious or exhausted. We also sometimes lack true experience to support theories and overlook certain things.* In Socionics all of this is explained.

*Personal views start/end here.

 

[viche]

I was just reading another thread on this forum about an INTP saying that using inferior gives him or her a sense of losing "control". While I don't have such a relationship with my inferior (Se) - it kind of freaks me out at times when it is used in manner that grosses out the other 3 functions, but I'm not that afraid of letting it go. I don't have this sense of losing control over it. Which has made me wonder whether personality types with perceiving function as dominant are more relaxed about using their inferior while types with judging function as dominant get more frightened of letting it go because you first have to make a judgement to allow it into being? I just made this random connection not sure whether it is true.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I was just reading another thread on this forum about an INTP saying that using inferior gives him or her a sense of losing "control". While I don't have such a relationship with my inferior (Se) - it kind of freaks me out at times when it is used in manner that grosses out the other 3 functions, but I'm not that afraid of letting it go. I don't have this sense of losing control over it. Which has made me wonder whether personality types with perceiving function as dominant are more relaxed about using their inferior while types with judging function as dominant get more frightened of letting it go because you first have to make a judgement to allow it into being? I just made this random connection not sure whether it is true.

Se is your stimulating function, it invigorates you. Fe is the one that you have no control over.

 

[viche]

Se is your stimulating function, it invigorates you. Fe is the one that you have no control over.

I do have decent use of my Fe and am mostly in control of it as Fe is my auxiliary function. I've used it nearly all my life. I do not have good control of Se however and alike INTP's Fe it at times switches on and off in all-or-nothing manner. Fe invigorates INTPs as well and this is why INTPs are drawn to ENFJs, ESFJs, ISFJs, INFJs, and intuitive subtype of ENTP as they all express more Fe than an INTP. So I am not sure what you are trying to say here.

 

[Thoughtful]

Well, I have an ESFP at work who seems okay at using her intuition. The trade-off is that she's incapable of thinking. I'm dead serious. I've tried to bring it out, I've watched and waited for it for months, It's just not there.

I confess to thinking she would love working as a hairstylist, I've thought it before, I wouldn't want her as a hairstylist, because I think she'd wreck it, but it'd be a job she'd enjoy.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Fe invigorates INTPs as well and this is why INTPs are drawn to ENFJs, ESFJs, ISFJs, INFJs, and intuitive subtype of ENTP as they all express more Fe than an INTP.

This is rational knowledge you have gained through reading, which is actually inaccurate. Please do not base your suppositions on non-empirical evidence.

I too did the same thing, I was emotionally attached and had a confirmation bias.
I have ESFJ family members, teachers and friends. I had one ENFJ teacher. One INFJ friend. One ISFJ friend and one cousin. 3 ESFP friends, and one ESFP sister. 2 ISFP friends, 3/4 ESTP friends and 3 INFP friends.

Types who irritate me:
ESFJ, ENFJ

Types I get along with great or am attracted to:
ESFP, ESTP

Us against the world:
ISFJ

Odd attraction:
ISFP

Neutral:
INFP, INFJ

 

[viche]

This is rational knowledge you have gained through reading, which is actually inaccurate. Please do not base your suppositions on non-empirical evidence.

I too did the same thing, I was emotionally attached and had a confirmation bias.
I have ESFJ family members, teachers and friends. I had one ENFJ teacher. One INFJ friend. One ISFJ friend and one cousin. 3 ESFP friends, and one ESFP sister. 2 ISFP friends, 3/4 ESTP friends and 3 INFP friends.

Types who irritate me:
ESFJ, ENFJ

well you yourself are just one data point
I was browsing the relationship forums for INTPs and there seems to be quite a few relationships started with ENFJs ISFJs ESFJs and INFJs which is as much empirical data as I can possibly have access to

how old are you btw?

 

[dark]

Yep, my father is an ESFP and he seems to think he can do Ni things. I am an ENTP and he thinks he has better use of N than I do, I always laugh inside. Same thing with my brother an ISTP. The more I learn about functions I know for certain my mother is not an INFJ, she has no use of Ni at all. Which if is true, explains why I don't fit in a S-dom family. My grandfather, ESTP has no claims to being able to use N functions.

And to the person who mentioned about younger people people using their 3rd function more than their 2nd, I think you are right. As I look back I have more uses of Fe than Ti as a child. Now I run more on Ne/Ti with a little Fe, and Si I hardly use at all. I really need to start using it. Really sucks because makes it hard for me to do actual work without my Si. I miss things to much and cause to much damage haha. Mostly to myself.

So I don't think I associate with my Si much, unless you count the times when I notice things no one else can, but I think that is my Ne doing something.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

well you yourself are just one data point
I was browsing the relationship forums for INTPs and there seems to be quite a few relationships started with ENFJs ISFJs ESFJs and INFJs which is as much empirical data as I can possibly have access to

how old are you btw?

I agree I am one case, but also, my case is relative to other types which so far has been consistent with Socionics theory.

Browsing on forums is still rational evidence, I'd like you to reflect on your own observations to come to these conclusions. Or better yet hold your opinions until you experience more interaction with types.

To refrain from possibly adding to or subtracting from your likely confirmation bias, I will not disclose my age.

 

[viche]

I agree I am one case, but also, my case is relative to other types which so far has been consistent with Socionics theory.

Browsing on forums is still rational evidence, I'd like you to reflect on your own observations to come to these conclusions. Or better yet hold your opinions until you experience more interaction with types.

To refrain from possibly adding to or subtracting from your likely confirmation bias, I will not disclose my age.

Your relationship history is not consistent with socionics theory because as I have stated you do have to invert last letter for all introverts as last letter corresponds to dominant function which for INTPs in a judging one, Ti, making INTP be INTj in socionics. My own relationship history is consistent with what socionics predicts for INFp. I do have a sense that you are younger, so one way to rationalize this is that for people younger than early 20s strong expressions of inferior can be rather unpleasant to the point of being mentally rejected. Enjoyment of inferior however grows with age. It improves into late 20s and really blossoms into middle age. Another possibility is that you're an MBTI INTJ which is why you'd find other TeFi types appealing (which by your style of posting I do not find likely)

I do know that INTPs have a sort of fascination with IxFPs and ExFPs as Fi seems to intrigue Ti because it doesn't quite yield to Ti's analysis. However INTP finds more understanding with a type that shares same set of judging functions: TiFe. This allows for both people to judge things similarly thus arriving at agreement more often than not. To the contrary Fe and Te mix together like oil and water i.e. they are blind to each other's way of judging external world and thus TiFe and TeFi types may frequently misunderstand each other's judgements.

What I say is based on my interaction with about several dozen different people in my life, many hours spent on MBTI and other typology forums, resulting in a sum of a couple thousand posts spread over many discussions. After this several patters became clear to me, including that types sharing same judging functions actually get along better and experience more understanding and attraction for each other.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Your relationship history is not consistent with socionics theory because as I have stated you do have to invert last letter for all introverts as last letter corresponds to dominant function which for INTPs in a judging one, Ti, making INTP be INTj in socionics.

So you are telling me that my life is false? What an audacious claim. I am INTp/ILI in Socionics.

My own relationship history is consistent with what socionics predicts for INFp.

Because you are INFp. And also INFP.

However INTP finds more understanding with a type that shares same set of judging functions: TiFe. This allows for both people to judge things similarly thus arriving at agreement more often than not. To the contrary Fe and Te mix together like oil and water i.e. they are blind to each other's way of judging external world and thus TiFe and TeFi types may frequently misunderstand each other's judgements.

More understanding? I suspect you do not have many ExFJ people in your life.

 

[viche]

So you are telling me that my life is false? What an audacious claim. I am INTp/ILI in Socionics.

Because you are INFp. And also INFP.

More understanding? I suspect you do not have many ExFJ people in your life.

I work with two ENFJs and one INTP quite closely at work and have an ESFJ in my immediate family as well as ISFJ.

Perhaps you are MBTI INTJ then. I hear INTJs mis-test into INTPs quite often. Then of course your age is still under question as it would influence your judgements.

Here is definition of introverted intuition from Wikosocion which assigns Ni as dominant function of IEI or INFp:
Ni is generally associated with the ability to recognize the unfolding of processes over time (how one event leads to another), have visions of the past and future, develop mental imagery, and see intangible hints of relationships between processes or objects.
Types that value Ni always like to have in mind a specific plan for how their life will develop in the future. Thus they have little time for the concept of "living for the moment" or "making the best of the present". They generally engage in pure leisure activities only for short periods of time, and even then their leisure activities generally involve a psychologically demanding or competitive aspect. As a base function, generally manifests itself through a lack of direct attention to the world around oneself, and a sense of detachment or freedom from worldly affairs. This can lead to a highly developed imagination and very unique mental world.

And here is definition of Ni from MBTI, dominant function of INFJs:
Ni - Deep vision and understanding. Can make sense of what others see as paradoxical, capricious and contradictory. Has deepest conceptual understanding. Often peridime shifting moments that float from the subconscious. Will often see at a new level, beyond and above what first appears rational. The mind is vortexed in to the subconscious, as if the brain is using processing and a “Eureka” moment ensues. The sense of the future gives confidence and seems to assist those with Ni keep on track and not get discouraged. They see the light at the end of the tunnel and can then do what it takes to get there. Others with out this vision will get discouraged. Developed and use symbols only known to the user of Ni that are compacted packets of massive data, like matrixes.

Both are intuition of time, like you have said. So stop denying this and claiming that Ni is different functions in MBTI and Wikisocion and assigning me some weird Ne function that I as MBTI INFJ and socionics INFp simply don't have and do not use. It sounds like you strongly want to believe this for some reason but it is simply not true.

For reference:
Wikisocion INFp uses Ni-Fe
MBTI INFJ uses Ni-Fe
MBTI INTP uses Fi-Ne
I use Ni and in Wikisocion and MBTI describe it to be same function. What is your reasoning for telling me that I am INFP in MBTI? I have never used Fi, introverted ethics, as my base function. I am Wikisocion INFp and MBTI INFJ both of which use Ni-Fe.



(I'll throw in another more familiar to INTP's function just for another comparison.
Here is description of Ti from Wikisocion. Ti is dominant function of LII or INTj:
Ti: is generally associated with the ability to recognize logical consistency and correctness, generate and apply classifications and systems, organize systematic and conceptual understanding, see logical connections between things (including logical similarities, differences, and correlations) by means of instinctive feelings of validity, symmetry, and even beauty. Types that value Ti naturally question the consistency of beliefs that are taken for granted in everyday life. They also have respect for people with clearly defined and internally consistent opinions, believing that a sense of internal certainty is necessary for orienting oneself in life. To these types, one's personal standards of truth are more reliable than public consensus.

And here is description of Ti from MBTI, dominant function of INTP:
Ti – Bringing logical order to the mind and ideas. Finding the right words to clearly express an idea perfectly. Ti allows one to ponder and ascertain the essential qualities of something or an idea and noticing the fine distinctions that make it what it is. Ti finds categories of classes and sub principles of general principles. Ti feels at home when problem solving, analysis and refining an idea. Ti makes it a compulsion to understand then improve upon an idea or thought. Ti enjoys taking apart things to see how they work, seeing all sides of an issue. Ti enjoys finding the details in ideas or processes and understanding their ramifications in the logical system. Ti loves finding the focus point in a system where the maximum effect can be had with minimum energy. Can easily see logical inconsistencies in models and statements. Enjoy using highly functioning models, that end up being detailed.

Clearly these are the same function, which is dominant of socionics LII or INTj and INTP of the MBTI. From this follows the MBTI INTP is socionics INTj or LII.)

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Perhaps you are MBTI INTJ then. I hear INTJs mis-test into INTPs quite often. Then of course your age is still under question as it would influence your judgements.

100% purebred INTP. The exact reason why I left out my age, I can see you were ready to put a bias on me.

Both are intuition of time, like you have said. So stop denying this and claiming that Ni is different functions in MBTI and Wikisocion and assigning me some weird Ne function that I as MBTI INFJ and socionics INFp simply don't have and do not use. It sounds like you strongly want to believe this for some reason but it is simply not true.

You constantly fail to realize I went through the same thing. I find it funny how you would rather support your beliefs than step back at look at the information skeptically.

These walls of texts don't do anything. I already know they appear similar, but the fact is, they are not the same. I have already pointed you to 16types yet you still refrain from posting there. Are you afraid of being wrong?

 

[viche]

100% purebred INTP. The exact reason why I left out my age, I can see you were ready to put a bias on me.

You are quick to make judgements. I did not put a bias on you. I have simply put forward an option that you may be mistaken of your type, which you cannot deny is a possibility.

You constantly fail to realize I went through the same thing. I find it funny how you would rather support your beliefs than step back at look at the information skeptically.

These walls of texts don't do anything. I already know they appear similar, but the fact is, they are not the same. I have already pointed you to 16types yet you still refrain from posting there. Are you afraid of being wrong?

I have given you quotes directly from Wikisocion demonstrating to you how MBTI Ni and Wikisocion Ni is extremely similar cognitive processes. This is objective evidence that you do not accept for some reason. If you don't accept direct evidence then I cannot do anything else to influence your thinking because it is only up to you what you will take in with your Ti (or whatever introverted function you're using to ignore this).

I've read the profiles on Wikisocion and I associate most with INFp. On MBTI INFJ forums nobody ever doubts that I am an INFJ. Other INFJs have told me numerous times that it is as if I read their minds. Not matter how much you may wish for it, I am not an INFP. I am not able to use introverted ethics which following you logic should be my dominant function. I use introverted intuition as my dominant function which is prescribed to INFps/IEI in Wikisocion and INFJs in MBTI.

If you believe that you are ILI in socionics and INTP in MBTI then either you are confused and should re-read the profiles or your are using another socionics branch and not Model A of Wikisocion from which I have given you numerous quotes that support my point.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

If you don't accept direct evidence then I cannot do anything else to influence your thinking because it is only up to you what you will take in with your Ti (or whatever introverted function you're using to ignore this).

Lol. Trust me I'm reading it all.

I've read the profiles on Wikisocion and I associate most with INFp. On MBTI INFJ forums nobody ever doubts that I am an INFJ. Other INFJs have told me numerous times that it is as if I read their minds. Not matter how much you may wish for it, I am not an INFP. I am not able to use introverted ethics which following you logic should be my dominant function. I use introverted intuition as my dominant function which is prescribed to INFps/IEI in Wikisocion and INFJs in MBTI.

You can believe what you want to believe, I don't know you, so I won't argue your type. What I do know is that MBTI functions != Socionics functions. Once again, I direct you to 16types. Will you at least make one post?

If you believe that you are ILI in socionics and INTP in MBTI then either you are confused and should re-read the profiles or your are using another socionics branch and not Model A of Wikisocion from which I have given you numerous quotes that support my point.

While skeptical, I am sure of my typing. With an adequate amount of empirical evidence, I can be sure of one thing: I loathe small talk and fake displays of camaraderie. It does not open me up to be a looser person. I long for few true relationships will people who do not BS me.