Guide to typing in real time.

[Adymus]

Jay-Z: ISTJ

Is there a reason you are calling his Ni drifts Si? A rapper is not allowed to be intuitive?

 

[Words]

Is there a reason you are calling his Ni drifts Si? A rapper is not allowed to be intuitive?

Dude, I'm not even convinced of this reality.

I was actually looking for Ni and if you add "musical family", the possibility seems reasonable.(at least to me.) But I didn't find any, at least 'til youtube broke on me.

Heck, If someone gave me a neat explanation as to how Einstein is ESFP, I'd believe it...or at least consider it.

 

[Adymus]

Dude, I'm not even convinced of this reality.

I was actually looking for Ni and if you add "musical family", the possibility seems reasonable.(at least to me.) But I didn't find any, at least 'til youtube broke on me.

Heck, If someone gave me a neat explanation as to how Einstein is ESFP, I'd believe it...or at least consider it.

Hmmm, that's interesting. because that kind of drift regesters as Ni with me, Si is more of a check than a drift. Also when he stays on the left, he is speaking conceptually, not about concrete facts or memories.

 

[XXXX]

So (using another rapper as an example) would T.I.'s leftward eye drifts be more indicative of Si use (ISTJ?) - he seems to speak more concretely rather than conceptually like Jay-Z.

YouTube- T.I. interview "Sets The Record Straight"

 

[Adymus]

Well first of all, he is an Fe user, but again, no that's Ni... INFJ

Did I talk about the concerned look of Si in this thread? It's been too long since I wrote it. Anyway, Si has a look of concern when it is used. To be clearer about what I mean by "concern" is, it appears like the person is trying to read really small print. This is why I refer to Si eye movements as "Si checks" and Ni eye movements as "Ni drifts"

Both Si and Ti are "checks" in that when we use them we are pretty much just looking for specific things, Ti checks for logical consistency, and Si checks for specific facts. Ni and Fi have a more amorphous and holistic usage, when one uses Ni they are actually taking sometime to conceptualize, which is why it has that dreamy look to it, and when a person is using Fi they are resonating with how they feel about something, which is why it also has a dreamy and less mechanical look to it like Si and Ti does.


Here is some actual Si doms so you can see what I mean

Spoiler

Donald Rumfeld (ISTJ) actually notice how he has concern on his face even when not actually disengaging into Si (It's the frilled eyebrows)? that is just something that comes with being an Si dom.

YouTube- # Donald Rumsfeld caught lying about Iraq and "weapons of mass destruction" in interview!
Spencer Pratt (ISFJ)
YouTube- Spencer Pratt on Letterman

 

[Adymus]

If it's not too much trouble, could you explain your reasoning, please? I'm not quite sure I understand how you arrived at that conclusion.

Right, this one in particular was tricky because he kind of bends some of the principles I put in this guide. Face holding is when any type keeps their face clear and neutralized of emotion. It is actually possible to keep a straight face even when using Fe, and doing this might give it the appearance of the cool articulation of Te. The reason I was able to tell the difference was just from experience, Fe still causes the face and mouth to move very differently from Te, even if the person is face holding while using it, and I've learned how to tell the difference just from experience.

Reading people is about 30% theoretical understanding and 70% holistic experience. This is not mathematics, it's really not something you can pull off with 100% accuracy just by having a theoretical understanding of alone, but we all need to start somewhere.

I agree. His expression and mannerisms seem kind of contrived. Did you watch both videos? there's a second video wrapped in the spoiler. He seems much more relaxed in that video, so it might be easier to 'read' him.

Actually, that second video was not very much help, he is still very nervous and not acting as "natural", I found a better video that he does with a second person, and actually shows much more unguarded Fe:

Spoiler

YouTube- Indonesian & Javanese: Languages of Southeast Asia

That's very interesting. I'll have to try it at some point. If you don't mind, could you explain 'modulation'?

certainly.

Momentum and modulation:

Both your dominant and to a lesser extent your Auxiliary functions are continuously processing until they are hindered by another function. Not only are these functions most stimulating to use, they are essentially our source of energy as well as our "starting position", so they are what we always go back to, and what we can never truly "turn off." When using these functions, we gain "Momentum" Momentum is gained when your energy increases due to you being able to use and/or being enticed by the environment to use your Top two function in a way that plays to your stronger, or heroic, mental preferences.
Momentum causes you to "shine" but it also can go too far if not Modulated with a counter weight. This counter weight is created by the Polar Opposite Cognitive function. Polar opposite cognitive functions have a suppressive relationship with each other.

One's top two cognitive functions are their momentum functions, and their bottom two function are their modulation functions.

The Auxiliary function is modulated by the tertiary function, and these two functions are always polar opposites of each other, this is called the "Minor Modulation". It requires that we venture to a less familiar part of the brain to use a 3rd priority function to modulate a second priority function.
The Dominant function is modulated by the Inferior function, which are also always polar opposites of one another. This requires us to reach out to the most unfamiliar part of the brain to use a 4th priority function to modulate a 1st priority function, this is called the "major modulation."

The most noticeable drop of energy will come from the major modulation, this is because your dominant function has the strongest pull forward, and because it is our true source of energy, thus modulating it will be the most draining for us.
The Minor Modulation is also draining, but as your Auxiliary is not our dominant function, modulating it will be much less draining of a task, and thus the drop of energy will not be as severe as the Major Modulation's.

In Moderated amounts, modulation adds ballast and gravitas to a person. In excessive amounts, as can often happen due to various Social factors, it can cause toxicity to the person's Apparatus and Personality. This is most often manifested in confusion, fatigue and irritation.
The two lower functions should not be considered the bane of a certain personality type, because their use is crucial to our functionality. If our top two functions were not counter balanced in some way, we would have no way or reason to come out of them, and we would not be able survive in the world if that were the case. It is also necessary that we use our modulation to refine the products of our Dominant and Auxiliary functions, without this modulation we would have very unrealistic and incomplete perceptions of reality.

For example an Ne without Si has absolutely no grounding, it would go from one possibility to another without every being able to relate anything to constant truth. And an Si with no Ne would have no concept of chaos of change in the world. A Ti with No Fe would have no way of relating any of it's understandings to the human dynamic, and an Fe with no Ti would have no way of doing any personal thinking or consideration outside of the human collective.

 

[echoplex]

Adymus:
On the T.I. video, it seems that when he looks to his left he's talking about facts moreso than concepts. Are you saying that facial expression (anger/drift vs. concern/check) is more important than content when differentiating Ni/Si? He did say a few Ni-ish things, but they didn't seem to coincide with him looking to his left. Though perhaps there is a delay (especially with introverts) between conviction and articulation, since Ni doesn't actually articulate anything, like Fe does.

 

[Adymus]

Adymus:
On the T.I. video, it seems that when he looks to his left he's talking about facts moreso than concepts. Are you saying that facial expression (anger/drift vs. concern/check) is more important than content when differentiating Ni/Si? He did say a few Ni-ish things, but they didn't seem to coincide with him looking to his left. Though perhaps there is a delay (especially with introverts) between conviction and articulation, since Ni doesn't actually articulate anything, like Fe does.

First of all, when articulating Ni, it is not always going to be profound concepts, it is their worldview, sometimes it will be stating facts. But it is actually not that important to match up the cues with what they are saying, just look for the cues, because telling the difference by content alone will be 1000 times harder.

 

[Words]

Jay-Z: ISTJ

0:32(and most of the video) = eye direction: left. action: extracting information. Si

1:14 = eye direction: left. action: raises both eyebrow to show agreement. Si + Te.

1:25 = action: *eyebrow agreement*. eye contact. Te

1:26
eye: left
activity: information extraction
Form: concrete
Conclusion: Si

1:28
Ditto

1:30
Ditto
I. Mid Analyzation
Speech: "Everyone came to our house to listen to music and have fun."
Thoughts: This seems like a generalization encompassing an idea. Perhaps it is Ni?

1:34
Ditto
Mid A: "Jackson 5". It is specific but could indicate more than what it is as form of Ni.

1:35
Ditto
Mid A: "You know...the early funk and all"

1:36 - 1:48
Continuous switches of extraction to articulation.
I. Extraction
Eye: Left
Face: Left
Time length: Long.
Speed: Slow.
Time Analyzation: Too long and slow to be simple Si checks? Drifting in the form of Se-Ni reliving?

Form: Concrete
Conclusion: Si

II. Articulation
Eye: Contact
Face: Interviewer
Time Length: Short
Speed: Fast
Analyzation: Absence of Fe's "externalized smiles" and "cold facial approval" indicates Te.

III. Analyzation
A. Time duration emphasizes greater use of Pi.
B. Although this may be because of topic of extraction.
C. Overall, Pi overwhelms Je.
Conclusion: Dominant Si Te.

2:21-2:23
Eye: Left to Contact to Left.
Face: Interviewer
Time Length: Short
Speed: Fast
Speech: "That's pretty much where rap was really heading."
Analyzation: An indication of prediction + An indication of general idea.
Form: Abstract
Conclusion: Ni
Analyzation II: I think I need further clarification on Ni vs. Si. I see both in this guy.

2:35
Eye: Contact.
Face: to Interviewer and face is "wrinkled up".
Analyzation: What is this? A sign of grave attention to the present detail?
Conclusion: Se?

2:44 - 3:09
I. Extraction
Eye: Left and sudden right scanning of environment(2:46).
Speech: Information preference is asked and he answers "I read about life and all that goes beyond the tangible...the way you deliver it...it's poetry if you look for it."
Analyzation: "Ni drifts" are present. There is no "memory check".
Form: Abstract
Conclustion: Ni

II. Articulation
Eye: Interviewer
Analyzation: at 2:56, there is warming? 2:57
Voice: shaky(although it might be present in other parts of the video so perhaps irrelevant.) Distinct change of pitch at "but it's poetry and everything".
Conclusion: Te with slight Fi.

 

[Words]

First of all, when articulating Ni, it is not always going to be profound concepts, it is their worldview, sometimes it will be stating facts. But it is actually not that important to match up the cues with what they are saying, just look for the cues, because telling the difference by content alone will be 1000 times harder.

Cues. Can you elaborate on Ni vs. Si cues? If both can be about facts and profound concepts, what is the deciding difference? Is it time length(short or long) of eye direction? Is it the focus of eyes? Could you define "dreamy"?

 

[XXXX]

Some more to practice typing:

Warren Buffett

Spoiler

YouTube- Warren Buffett interview on how to read stocks

Gordon Ramsay

Spoiler

YouTube- Gordon Ramsay Interview - Parkinson - BBC

Neil Strauss

Spoiler

YouTube- Neil Strauss picks up Jessica Alba on Jimmy Kimmel

Beyonce

Spoiler

YouTube- Beyonce Interview at Late Show with David Letterman (22 April 2009)

Buffett INTJ?
Strauss ENFP?
Ramsay ENTJ?
Beyonce ISFP?

 

[XXXX]

Actually for Ramsay I think ESTJ on second thoughts - I see Te, Si and Fi use in this interview.

Spoiler

YouTube- Gordon Ramsay on 60 minutes (UnCensored)

 

[Silas]

OK, so I'm wanting to get to your level of typing (Adymus), so far I've read all the major threads here on cognitive functions, personality types, their contradictions etc, and it all makes good sense.
I'm about to start reading Personality Types, Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious and Analytical Psychology: Theory and Practice all by Jung, just to see how your information builds upon things.
But basically is it enough of a starting point to have read this guide, have an decent overview of the functions, and from there just go out and practice?

Practice basically consisting of speaking to and observing people, but for a beginner is there a desired starting point?
Maybe concentrating on just one person for a while, building up an idea of their dom/aux from the tell-tale signs, and as assurance relating this back to ones knowledge of the cognitive functions...?
I'm thinking it may be good to start with younger people, as to avoid mistyping if adults tend to have better use of their lower functions?

Also in a fast-paced, say heated conversation it's going to be harder (unless experienced) to tell what is dominant/aux as the person may be using all their functions interchangeably, what I mean is, it may be difficult to see an Ni drift if its happening too fast to make a reliable judgement of the eye movement.
Being the case, for a beginner it would be best to not try to type someone in this state?
Maybe I'm just referring to an agitated or stressed person, but I think you maybe said somewhere that it's not reliable to type them anyway being the case (stress brings out the shadow/lower functions/'the other'?)

And like Jung recommended, it's best to see as much of a variety of people as possible first-hand, but I don't exactly take regular expeditions down to the local pub, any suggestions (I'm prepared to get right out of my comfort zone)?

And I know you're a busy man, and my post maybe wasn't too coherent, so reply anytime you can.

 

[Adymus]

XXXX - Pretty nice work!

Warren Buffet - INTJ (Nice)

Gordon Ramsay - ENFJ (That is Fe he is using, and he is waaaayy too warm to be an ESTJ.)

Neil Strauss - ENTP (You got the Ne dom part right, but he is articulating with Fe.)

Beyonce - ISFP (Nice.)

And for the Bonus...

Jessica Alba - ISFP

 

[XXXX]

Cheers Adymus - my reading is still a bit off but at least I'm making some progress.

Like Silas your threads have really captivated my interest and real time typing is something I really want to get good at ... so I'm going to go on a bit of a typing frenzy over the next 2 weeks (at least) before college starts up again - let me know if it's too much for you!

Some more I've attempted to type...

Marilyn Vos Savant - INFJ?

Spoiler

YouTube- Marilyn vos Savant - Raising Intelligent Children

Emma Watson - INFP? (is the interviewer Fe-dom - ENFJ? They seem to feed of each other well - I remember you saying something like Fe has a nurturing relationship with Fi?)

Spoiler

YouTube- Emma Watson's 'Potter' Romance

Kobe Bryant - ESTP?

Spoiler

YouTube- Kobe Bryant interview with Stephen A. Smith

Bernie Mac - ESFJ?

Spoiler

YouTube- Bernie Mac on Charlie Rose (Part 1 of 3)

Shakira - ENFP?

Spoiler

YouTube- Shakira Interview

 

[ckm]

Okay, I have two I'd like to check my typing with.

Janelle Monáe:
YouTube- Janelle Monae: The Meaning Of 'Tightrope'

Spoiler

Worldview dominant surely, and I'm pretty confident it's Ni over Si. At first I thought she was using Te because of the general lack of expression, but she talks about society so much I'm thinking Fe now. INFJ?

Marina Diamandis:
YouTube- Marina & The Diamonds at Glastonbury Festival 2009

Spoiler

I found this very hard. Stimulus dominant, I think. She seems to flow with the instant a lot. I wasn't sure if she was using Fi or Fe, but I think it's Fi because her expressions seems to be subconscious. ESFP?

 

[XXXX]

Janelle Monáe - I would agree with INFJ (I'm picking up a Fe warmness undertone particularly in the voice)

Marina and the Diamonds - ENTP? (I'm reading Ne and Fe - her feelings seems directed outward rather than inward to me?)

 

[Irishpenguin]

Yea with Marina Diamandis I don't think she's ESFP, I'd definitely be more on board with ENTP , or maybe even possibly INTP (all I know is that I see some Ne at work there, and the Fe would make sense, it also seems like she's checking Si a lot in the vid, I just don't know what order to put them in )

 

[cheese]

Marilyn vos Savant:
No freakin clue. I'd guess INFJ or INTP, maybe some extroverted type since she seems to be pretty engaged, but the constant rightward drifts could be the Ti of a dominant or a well-developed, intellectual INFJ. And I can't tell whether she's using Fe or Te. So maybe INTJ or INFP. Dunno.

Emma Watson:
INFJ! I did her before (lolzerz) and that was Adymus' verdict anyway. I tagged her as ENFJ originally but apparently that's due to her being a girl and better at hiding her introversion.

Kobe:
I think he's got good-ish Fi? I don't think it's Fe, I think he's using Te to communicate. I'd say INFP or INTJ? Don't really know.

Bernie Mac:
Some sort of J. He is definitely pushing, and has structured responses. Probably E? Not sure if he's using Fe or Te, though I'd go with Fe. xNFJ, I'd say.
Or xNTJ.
Actually I don't know. This is one of those that I'll probably have a moment about after it's revealed, but for now I feel a little confused.
He has that angry look in his eyes that you associate with NiFe, but maybe he's just got a bad face.
Actually he kind of reminds me of Tom Cruise (ISFJ). Maybe that anger is Si concern. Aaargh!

I'll go with NFJ for now.

Shakira:
I see Fi, but I don't really want to do anymore because English isn't her native language (see Ran). Not going to attempt typing her but man, she's glued to the left.

Janelle:
INTJ? Face seems cold, and I think I saw Fi.

Marina:
I think she's articulating with Fe. That seems fairly clear. Didn't use it much though, and her eyes seem dead, so I'd guess tertiary or inferior, plus she speaks like a P (rambling). She seems like an introvert to me, which'd make her IXTP. I'd say INTP just based on the fact that her facial expressions remind me of myself, but I'm not sure of my own type anyway.

 

[echoplex]

Is Kobe's excessive lip-licking a sign of Se? Either way it's freaking annoying.

 

[ckm]

Er, at least we agree on P for Marina anyway. ENTP did cross my mind, I am not familiar with how Se appears so I kind of settled on that without any real basis. INTP seems obscure, but that's probably because I have my own perceptions of how an INTP would be, which are obviously blurred by my subjectivity.

 

[cheese]

Katee Sackhoff?

Spoiler

YouTube- Battlestar: Katee Sackhoff

I don't know where to go with this (well, not like I ever really know anyway). I think I see Ne, and probably introversion, plus her face seems quite alive - so I'd say INFP. But I'm not sure if I'm seeing FiNe or Fe (ie Ne flashes and energy or Fe engagement - help!). Maybe IxTP?

Or INFJ that's clamping down with Ti.


Tricia Helfer:

Spoiler

YouTube- Battlestar Galactica: Tricia Helfer

IxFJ?

 

[s0nystyle]

for some strange reason i thought this topic was about typing as in "http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/typing " and was wholeheartedly confused

 

[snafupants]

So the link below is of Thom Yorke and Colin Greenwood of Radiohead. Skip ahead to 2:13 and tell me what you think with Colin's inner wanderings. On a side note, they are leaning back so much, theyre essentially supine.

YouTube- Thom Yorke and Colin Greenwood Summer Sonic 2003 interview Super curious to hear from people on the forum.

 

[XXXX]

Adymus - do head tilts indicate use of particular cognitive processes? Are you still going to make that youtube video you mentioned in the first post?

Katee Sackhoff - ENFJ? I'm picking up Fe/Ti and Ni use - she seems extroverted and directive (J) to me, but what do I know!

Tricia Helfer - ENTP? She seems very Ne bouncy to me - I think it's her lead process? (I saw a few eye flashes throughout the video - Ne?) I also get the impression of Fe being used too.

Some more I've tried typing over the last few days:

Richard Branson - ENFJ

Spoiler

YouTube- Richard Branson - Lifetime Achievement Stevie Award Winner

Adam Sandler INFP?

Spoiler

YouTube- Adam Sandler Interview

Colin Mochrie – INTP?

Spoiler

YouTube- Colin Mochrie interview on the Wayne Brady Show

Muhammad Ali - INFJ?

Spoiler

YouTube- Muhammad Ali Amazing Interview PT 1

John Wayne Gacy – ISTJ?
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

Spoiler

YouTube- John Wayne Gacy claims he is a misunderstood victim of circumstance. Interview 2 of 5.

 

[cheese]

Adymus - do head tilts indicate use of particular cognitive processes? Are you still going to make that youtube video you mentioned in the first post?

Katee Sackhoff - ENFJ? I'm picking up Fe/Ti and Ni use - she seems extroverted and directive (J) to me, but what do I know!

Tricia Helfer - ENTP? She seems very Ne bouncy to me - I think it's her lead process? (I saw a few eye flashes throughout the video - Ne?) I also get the impression of Fe being used too.

Re head tilts:
Yeah, I'm not Adymus, but (I think!) I've noticed Fi types at least tend to have this little head tilt and shrug to the right (he called it an 'aww' shrug on Catherine Keener, and that is how it comes across). Even those who have it as a lower function do it. I saw it on Hurley (I think) from Lost - I'd say the character's an XXFP.

Katee:
Yeah, I think I see Fe, but I also saw (if I remember correctly) a lot of right-drifts, which I thought might be Fi instead. She wasn't clear (to me) what she was using to articulate - Fe or Te. She had the businesslike manner of T-ness, I thought, which you get even with xxFPs because they're using Te to talk. But then all those rightward drifts - could be a combination of FeTi (ie INFJ), and she did seem to close herself off a lot (clamping down with Ti).

She lost eye contact a lot, I thought, so I not E for me.

Tricia:
Her smile really engulfs her face though, not in the way I'd expect for a T. I do think she's using Fe, but using it as a higher function. Plus she kept having to look away, so I'd say I not E.

Re the Ne flashes:
Yeah, this is what I'm starting to have trouble with - telling Ne excitement from Fe engagement. I'm sure once I learn it properly it'll be obvious and I'll feel like a tool, but for now I'm all-a-muddle.

---
Felt like answering XXXX, even though it doesn't actually 'answer' anything, sorry. This stuff really interests me and I like discussing it. I just wish we had an answer booklet for the dratted things though.

Actually Adymus, if you could work on giving us a list of 5-10 celebs of each type (that's a lot, I know) then we could work backwards by ourselves, maybe.

 

[XXXX]

I watched a few more interviews of Katee Sackhoff - I think you're right about Te articulation and Fi use instead of Fe articulation and Ti use which I previously thought - I spotted some Si in a few as well. So maybe INFP on second thought ? (I feel like I'm getting worse at this the more I do it!)

 

[Words]

I think Fe. specially at 3:42. "Phenomenal". Intuitive value-based Persuasion Cue.

 

[docile]

I think you are trying to explain what most intps can only conceptualize in their own heads... well that's how it is for me. Good job of trying to explain the gestures that support the intuition

 

[cheese]

I watched a few more interviews of Katee Sackhoff - I think you're right about Te articulation and Fi use instead of Fe articulation and Ti use which I previously thought - I spotted some Si in a few as well. So maybe INFP on second thought ? (I feel like I'm getting worse at this the more I do it!)

Yeah, me too. I think it's like any sort of practice though - the initial phase is relatively easy, because you don't know enough to screw up. But then you learn a little more and get to that awkward phase between ignorance and true understanding, where all the extra strands of data tangle with everything in the vicinity.

At least this means we're progressing.

*edit
Hah, having watched a few more, I'm now almost convinced Sackhoff is a Fe user. Dom or aux.

Another problem I have: telling the difference between Fe and girls, usually American, who've simply gotten used to being sort of fake and overly engaging (comes up a lot in the voice - super sing-songy. Pretty damn annoying.) as part of being a typical girl. Or perhaps there's no difference - perhaps the only girls who develop that way are Fe users? Bauble.

 

[Thoughtful Tom]

This is fascinating. INTPs have Spocked this thing! I approach it from a very intuitive perspective (shocking, I know). I can identify a female NFP from a mile away (clothing).

I find I do best when I am typing someone I have just recently met. The more I know them, the more I get confused because they say and do things that could be various types.

I like the structure of this approach, and have no problem understanding that it works, and that it takes practice.

Reading through the thread, I note that there is a strong bias towards typing people as Ns (not from Adymus, but folks new to Adymus' approach) . That could be because famous people tend to be Ns, or because the vast majority of posters here are N and are projecting.

Finding the Ss for me is fairly easy - if I don't care for them, they are probably an S. Sigh. Not a generalizable rule!

 

[Adymus]

I can identify a female NFP from a mile away (clothing).

No, you can't. That's called stereotyping, and you don't truly learn to read people until you clean your lenses of that shit.

 

[IndigoSensor]

Ooook, my head hurts. I very very much like this, but I have to say, there is waaaay too much detail in all of this! Yeesh! Not saying it's wrong, its just, I can't work with this level of detail. I actually have been attempting to type people by watching them for a while now, and I often get it right or very close. Maybe it is just my Ni, but I can't actually sit there and think "this cue means this", it sort of all blends together. Of course, after reading all of this I am definintely going to be adding these to my arsenol. I have to make it my own though before I can use it. I am a very rigid learner, so I have to interpret things first before I can use it.

I can't really explain it. I see all of the stuff in the examples, I understand it, but I can't replicate the details of what I see. I simply know it and it makes sense when I see it. It's implicit.

And for information purposes, here is a video of me. I am decidedly an INFJ and you don't need to watch more then 10 seconds to see that. My Ni is ALWAYS on, I use it a shit ton (perhaps too much). You can also see me pulling something out of the air using Ni at like 0:20 or so (I never noticed how blatent that is before).

Oh this is definintely exciting, I will certainly be able to see more concerete examples now! I hadn't even noticed that "blatent" use of functions before. Now that I have seen examples though, they will stand out a lot more. Although this is gonna take a long time and a lot of work to get it down pat. I really reccomend to everyone that is interested in typing to try these methods, they certainly do work.

It's also really interesting that functions would have such a direct effect on physical actions. Take that nurture arguers! This also backs up the idea I had about being born with 4 functions and working into one type.

Thoughts on this thread:

 

[Adymus]

Indy:

Yeah as an INFJ you are for the most part better off with the straight intuitive approach, I would actually recommend that for most NFs, although it is good to know the cues too so you have something to fall back on if you are just not getting a single read on a person.

To be honest, I personally rarely uses any of what I am talking about on this thread haha, like you said after while you start getting so fast that it all becomes an intuitive blur. When it gets to that point then that is when you are truly reading a person, and not just guessing at their type, however as thinkers this is something that does not come to us naturally, so it is good to start with the more mechanical approach of seeing function cues, and then as you get more familiar with it you will start to intuitively see the patterns and be able to read people within seconds without even seeing any of the cues.

 

[IndigoSensor]

Yup, makes sense. I guess I am doing this backwards from that then, as I will be using this to refine what I already know (which does need work), and sort of use it as a check system.

This is what I can extract from my own understandings. I sort of look at it like an axis cause everything comes in pairs. When you try to focus on spotting individual functions, it actually becomes harder. Doing this makes it easier for me in a sense, because it eliminates a lot of variables. If you can pin down which two axis's a person uses, then all you need to do is pick out the top two, which is much easier to do then when you try to spot a single function one at a time.

Fi/Te: This tends to lend to a person having a very direct look, eyes are stationary or slow moving for the most part. There often isn't a easy to see pattern of face muscle movement (its slow to change), it's usually pretty focused.

Fe/Ti: There is a lot more turbulance in the face then the previous. Even if it is small, the muscles move a lot more and there is often patterns with it.

Si/Ne: There is more full head movement, not much blinking. When they eyes move they almost always return to where they were previously after a short while.

Se/Ni: Eye movement is pretty rapid and often, and does not remain in one fixated spot. Due to this, there is often a sense of not actually looking at something that can be seen.


Bah, this is really hard for me to quantify, and you said most of this in way or another already, but I just think using axis's makes things more streamlined.

 

[Adymus]

Here are some outdated answers.

Marilyn Vos Savant - INTJ

Emma Watson - INFJ

Kobe Bryant - ISTJ (XXXX: I noticed in your PM you sent me you confused another ISTJ for an ESTP, remeber how these two ISTJs are, because a lot of ISTJ athletes have this similar game playing style.)

Bernie Mac - INTJ (Te backed up with a strong Fi seems very soulful, but they are still pushing with Te.)

Shakira - ISFP (ISFPs and ISTPs are the two easiest to confuse with intuitives, but as you said cheese, she was Ni drifting almost the whole time, so if you see an Fi dom using Ni, that can only mean one thing.)

Janelle Monáe: INTJ (Damn it CKM! If you see INTJ, then she is an INTJ, who cares what she is saying, cognitive functions speak for themselves! Your Ti is naturally going to fuck with you like this, it is going to try and take other things into consideration like: "How likely is it for an INTJ to speak this much about the people?", DO NOT LET IT DO THIS! Remember, we are not typing people, we are reading them.)

Marina Diamandis: ENFP (Damn it CKM! How dare you call my Marina an ESFP!)

Katee Sackhoff - INFP

Tricia Helfer - ENTP

Richard Branson - ENFJ

Adam Sandler - INFJ

Colin Mochrie – INTP

Muhamud Ali - INFJ

John Wayne Gacy – INTJ

​

 

[Adymus]

Yup, makes sense. I guess I am doing this backwards from that then, as I will be using this to refine what I already know (which does need work), and sort of use it as a check system.

This is what I can extract from my own understandings. I sort of look at it like an axis cause everything comes in pairs. When you try to focus on spotting individual functions, it actually becomes harder. Doing this makes it easier for me in a sense, because it eliminates a lot of variables. If you can pin down which two axis's a person uses, then all you need to do is pick out the top two, which is much easier to do then when you try to spot a single function one at a time.

Fi/Te: This tends to lend to a person having a very direct look, eyes are stationary or slow moving for the most part. There often isn't a easy to see pattern of face muscle movement (its slow to change), it's usually pretty focused.

Fe/Ti: There is a lot more turbulance in the face then the previous. Even if it is small, the muscles move a lot more and there is often patterns with it.

Si/Ne: There is more full head movement, not much blinking. When they eyes move they almost always return to where they were previously after a short while.

Se/Ni: Eye movement is pretty rapid and often, and does not remain in one fixated spot. Due to this, there is often a sense of not actually looking at something that can be seen.


Bah, this is really hard for me to quantify, and you said most of this in way or another already, but I just think using axis's makes things more streamlined.

The Axis are always implied, If you see Si then Ne must be present, if you see Te then Fi must present, personally I prefer it this way. For instance, If you see Ne in the Eyes and Fe in the face then that automagically tells you about the other two.

 

[Razare]

Alright, I am pretty good about typing people in real life (except myself), but I never used this stuff that you posted Adymus. I'll have to give it a try. I guess I normally use the NF intuitive method of typing people. I can just put myself in a person's shoes after I've seen them interact some. If I see them make one or two decisions, I can almost certainly determine F or T... was that decision feeling based or logic based? T types will make logical decisions with concern for no one else. S vs N is probably the hardest to determine, but now I got some hints. This might be because there's people good at using both.


PS - I never thought I'd say this about another man, but Indigo, you have the most amazing eyes. Also, that's the easiest way to figure out N types too. Dreamy eyes like that, almost always mean INXX, or maybe an ENXX. INXX's get the best ones, I do believe.

 

[Razare]

Katee Sackhoff - INFJ

Definately I, she's maintaining composure and holding herself with posture that she returns to.

Definately N, when he asks if she's happy with how they are wrapping up the series, she looks to the up and to the left. She's accessing her Ni to see how the ending of the show fits with her ideal of what it should be.

Definately F, she's using Fe.

Tertiary Ti, on several occasions, she looks down and to the right when accessing it.

At 4:05, she has a laughter fit but then looks down and right some, which clamps down on her giggle. She does this once in the beginning to as she laughs. This is Ti repressing Fe.

Towards the end, she does access Si once to remember some names, but it's not widely exhibited by her in that clip.

She might be using the occasional Ne for a bit of wit in her conversation. I think this is possible for an INFJ to do.

-------------

She doesn't have the INFP vibe either. They all got a vibe and she doesn't have it.

 

[ckm]

Damm it Adymus! I'm somewhat happy that I got the structures right though, i.e. IxxJ for Janelle and ExxP for Marina.

Re: What you said about trusting your first notion, what function/s would this involve? Not Ti, as stated, but I can't see it using Ne (overflow of possibilities, not just one) or Si (would be referring to descriptions etc constantly). So... Fe? Though that seems obscure.

What do you think of this approach: observing someone for a time while trying not to analyse anything, just absorb what you see, then checking what comes to you when you're done. On the other hand, since this involves Ti supression, for practical reasons this may not be viable for INTPs.

P.S. Screw you, Marina's mine.

 

[Thoughtful Tom]

You get it...

Indy:

To be honest, I personally rarely uses any of what I am talking about on this thread haha, like you said after while you start getting so fast that it all becomes an intuitive blur. When it gets to that point then that is when you are truly reading a person, and not just guessing at their type, however as thinkers this is something that does not come to us naturally, so it is good to start with the more mechanical approach of seeing function cues, and then as you get more familiar with it you will start to intuitively see the patterns and be able to read people within seconds without even seeing any of the cues.

And then you don't:

No, you can't. That's called stereotyping, and you don't truly learn to read people until you clean your lenses of that shit.

Clothing is one external, visible cue that fuels my intuitive, visual typing. I have not rigorously studied my results, but I am also aware of rarely being wrong in a long time. I do like your technical breakdown - as you point out - grinding through it consciously, then tossing that into the intuitive bin, will most likely improve my results.

 

[Adymus]

Katee Sackhoff - INFJ

Definately I, she's maintaining composure and holding herself with posture that she returns to.

Definately N, when he asks if she's happy with how they are wrapping up the series, she looks to the up and to the left. She's accessing her Ni to see how the ending of the show fits with her ideal of what it should be.

Definately F, she's using Fe.

Tertiary Ti, on several occasions, she looks down and to the right when accessing it.

At 4:05, she has a laughter fit but then looks down and right some, which clamps down on her giggle. She does this once in the beginning to as she laughs. This is Ti repressing Fe.

Towards the end, she does access Si once to remember some names, but it's not widely exhibited by her in that clip.

She might be using the occasional Ne for a bit of wit in her conversation. I think this is possible for an INFJ to do.

-------------

She doesn't have the INFP vibe either. They all got a vibe and she doesn't have it.

That is Fi she is using, as expressive as she is, she is unaware of it, she also clamps her expression down as soon as she begins talking and begins listening, she is articulating with Te.

You're right, she is using Ne, which negates the possibility of her being INFJ, no Razare, INFJs don't do this, if they did do this then this system of reading people would not work at all (This system of personality wouldn't work either.)

 

[Adymus]

Clothing is one external, visible cue that fuels my intuitive, visual typing. I have not rigorously studied my results, but I am also aware of rarely being wrong in a long time. I do like your technical breakdown - as you point out - grinding through it consciously, then tossing that into the intuitive bin, will most likely improve my results.

No thoughtful Tom, I get it just fine.

Tell me, how do you read people when that person is from a different culture? How do you read people when they are from a different state or family that was not brought up to dress like everyone else? What do you do when you come across the NFP that does just happen to dress like everyone else?

Clothing style is a Meme, it does not tell you any more about a person's personality than their gender, ethnicity, age, religion, or social economic status does. You cannot read a person through memes, because people were not meant to be memes, they were not meant to be anything other than what they were built to be.

What I am trying to show people here is how to look beyond the flawed lens of Meme based people reading. What we are looking at is not just the superficialities of their fashion sense and interests, but the kind of creature they are physiologically wired to be. With this, we are reading the natural language of man kind, not simply the languages man kind made. With this, we can read anyone in the world, regardless of age, culture, ethnicity, gender, or sexual orientation, because their wiring is all the same.

 

[Adymus]

Re: What you said about trusting your first notion, what function/s would this involve? Not Ti, as stated, but I can't see it using Ne (overflow of possibilities, not just one) or Si (would be referring to descriptions etc constantly). So... Fe? Though that seems obscure.

What do you think of this approach: observing someone for a time while trying not to analyse anything, just absorb what you see, then checking what comes to you when you're done. On the other hand, since this involves Ti supression, for practical reasons this may not be viable for INTPs.

P.S. Screw you, Marina's mine.

You don't have to jump to conclusions with your first notion, explore why you think you are getting this first impression, but don't talk yourself out of it based on something that you didn't actually read.
Every time you get an answer wrong, you should go back and explore why you were wrong and what you missed, and correct your mistakes.

Essentially this will take all four of your functions working in symphony, but mainly Ne to read patterns, Fe to feel out vibes, and Si to attach them all to something concrete, with your Ti overseeing the whole process and maintaining clarity. However, your Ti is going to have to be tamed so to speak, the biggest part of learning to read people is self-mastery, learning to trust your more holistic instincts, and keeping your lens clear of impure data. Ti is actually great at keeping your lens clear as long as it does not try to eradicate the data your Si-Fe is giving you.

Taking a minute to just get an overall vibe read of people is a great practice, and yes it is viable for INTPs too. While you are doing this, be aware of your mental state, and how this person is impacting you and making your feel, and then begin exploring why it is that they are making you feel this way. Also it is important to keep tabs on your emotional state, this includes how you were feeling before you even started reading. If you feel like you are not confident with yourself in that moment in time, it's probably best to stop and try again tomorrow when you are seeing things more clearly.

Expect to be surprised by your prejudices; there will be aspects of certain people that cause misreads due to a prejudice that you were unaware of. Maybe you saw something in them that you don't like in yourself. Maybe you consider this person an evil person so you automatically type them as something you don't like. This is why you must always ask yourself, why you were wrong, that way you can discover these prejudices, and you will be able to rid yourself of them, thus becoming a more competent and accurate people reader.
And lastly, never need the answer to be something! Completely detach yourself, be uninvested in your read, if George W. Bush turns out to be INTP, so be it, the facts are what they are.

 

[IndigoSensor]

I don't know why but I simply can not find any band members with good (or any) interview pages to try and type, I found one.

Alice Glass (singer for crystal castles): I am gonna guess ISFP

YouTube- Crystal Castles - NME Interview


As a side note I can't stand these two, but their music is good.

 

[ckm]

Thanks for the advice/clarification Adymus. It should be useful.

I don't know why but I simply can not find any band members with good (or any) interview pages to try and type, I found one.

Alice Glass (singer for crystal castles): I am gonna guess ISFP

YouTube- Crystal Castles - NME Interview


As a side note I can't stand these two, but their music is good.

I really like their music. I can see why you might hate them, but I don't find them annoying for some reason.

I would probably agree with your assessment of Alice. As for Ethan, he also seems to be IxxP, maybe ISTP?

 

[IndigoSensor]

Thanks for the advice/clarification Adymus. It should be useful.



I really like their music. I can see why you might hate them, but I don't find them annoying for some reason.

I would probably agree with your assessment of Alice. As for Ethan, he also seems to be IxxP, maybe ISTP?

I can't type ethan because he has on glasses. I actually would guess INTJ, but that is pure gut.

So here is another one. As Faithless just released a new album.

YouTube- Faithless 'The Dance' - album track by track

I would guess ISTJ for sister bliss and ISTP for maxi. These two are kinda hard though.

ETA: Actually, I am going to say ISFJ for SB, she is a hard nut to crack.

 

[Razare]

ISFP's are very good when it comes to lyrics. My ex wrote me the best romantic poems ever.

 

[Adymus]

I can't type ethan because he has on glasses. I actually would guess INTJ, but that is pure gut.

So here is another one. As Faithless just released a new album.

YouTube- Faithless 'The Dance' - album track by track

I would guess ISTJ for sister bliss and ISTP for maxi. These two are kinda hard though.

ETA: Actually, I am going to say ISFJ for SB, she is a hard nut to crack.

Oooooohh I know what this is, this should be fun, I'll wait for more to guess, great post Indigo!

Warning: Both of them are highly developed models, do not expect them to act like the MBTI "stereotypical" versions of their types.

 

[IndigoSensor]

ISFP's are very good when it comes to lyrics. My ex wrote me the best romantic poems ever.

Well, Alice Glass sure is. I was actually surprised when I read some of Crystal Castles lyrics, there really good.

Oooooohh I know what this is, this should be fun, I'll wait for more to guess, great post Indigo!

Warning: Both of them are highly developed models, do not expect them to act like the MBTI "stereotypical" versions of their types.

Yup, that's why it's so darn hard.