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Group work?

James Black

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This bothered me quite a bit in High School, and I even argued and got credit my teacher initially didn't want to give me once, but it didn't matter since I essentially decided I hated education and dropped out...

But, for some reason, I had higher expectations in college. Granted, I'm currently nearing the end of my time at a community college, not an university, but I still expected... more.

I received my mid-semester grades recently. I'm rather happy: this is the first time I've actually tried to do well instead of glide along since sometime near the 4th grade. My grades were three 4.0s and two 3.5s. Now, sure, I shouldn't complain... Because, hey, those aren't too shabby. But out of those two 3.5s, I only felt I deserved one... My "Analytic Geometry and Calculus I" grade. Which I feel I can easily raise to a 4.0 before the end of the semester, anyway. The other, however? "Supporting End Users." Its a class I attend once a week, for 3 hours. Every class is the same routine: listen to the professor read a powerpoint word-for-word, then split up into four groups, which each then get a "subject," and then use the remaining two hours to research the subject, make a powerpoint, and present the subject. Anyone good with math or time knows instantly this is a horrible idea. And often the class runs beyond the allotted time. The groups have minimal time to work together to make the powerpoint, obviously, so common practice is to have everyone make their own slides, put it all together, and present your own portion. Not bad... Except every damn presentation so far has resulted in one or two dumb-ass members who don't properly follow the directions, and I constantly lose points in the class for these other people's mistakes. Not only do I feel I shouldn't be responsible for the others (this isn't a leadership class, after all) but if I tried to take responsibility, I'd quickly run out of preparation time trying to get everyone to understand the project... And thats assuming the best-case scenario where nobody argues that they're right and I'm wrong.

With that rant out of the way, on to what this thread was about...

What is your opinion of the practice of grading students as a group?
Not necessarily making students work in groups, but making them work as a group and then grading them as one as well? I'd be less annoyed if we received individual grades. Its not entirely that "I don't want to help others," but a lot more of "I don't have the time to help others and get my shit done in a timely fashion," and I feel as if ultimately, I'm powerless to alter my grades and have to succumb to the mercy of my group mates' efforts.
 

ProxyAmenRa

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Group work is a pain in the ass. Just do the whole assignment yourself.
 

Cogwulf

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My university runs a peer review system for all group work, where if you feel a group member isn't contributing enough, you can raise the issue and if it's decided you are right the marks each member gets is altered to reflect it.

I hate group work though. Luckily most of the time I'm with quite good workers. But due to my procrastination issues I always feel I should be the one getting lower marks.
 

Bird

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I do not mix well with group work.
I tend to just do it all on my own
whether the others want to
contribute or not.
 

aaaw

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I don't like group work, but there are some sound pedagogical reasons behind it.
 

Vrecknidj

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As a rule, INTPs are going to be against group work.

Teachers sometimes find them useful because teachers have different goals than students do. Teachers have to consider every student's advancement. Teachers have to try to find ways to get some students to do better. Teachers sometimes try to get the students who understand more to provide assistance to students who understand less.

Unfortunately, many teachers also use group activities as means of achieving other ends. Sometimes they just don't have a plan for the day. And, sometimes even when they do have a plan, they don't think through the dynamics of the groups they create.

My own recommendation is to do the best you can with the group. Try to get the others to carry their weight, try to get the others to also aim for a 4.0. After all, later in life, unless you're remarkably lucky, you're going to be forced into plenty of situations where your success will rely on others....

Dave
 

Zionoxis

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I despise group work with a fire-breathing passion. Nice analogy, don't you think? Anyway, back on topic. I have always just done projects myself if I felt my group was not competent enough to help. Some teachers find it irritating, but personally, I don't care. As far as the comment on relying on others later in life, I plan on reducing those times to as few as possible. The job I plan to get (Security Operations Manager), I will most likely HAVE to rely on them. The difference? I'll be in charge (and I will only employ people who know how to count unlike most of my class in high school).
 

EyeSeeCold

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mh6Xh.jpg
 

BigApplePi

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Everything said here is correct. Groups are something you will encounter in life. Do your own share the best you can. There will be a slacker and you have to deal with it. You are 5 percent responsible for taking care of the slacker, 50 percent for working well with the group and 100 percent for yourself. If someone tries to destroy the group after you've tried to do something, you are responsible for calling attention to authorities to that.
 

James Black

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I suppose I'll just diligently work through the semester and hope my grade improves, or at the very least, remains the same rather than dropping.
 

Cogwulf

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At my university, everyone I've worked with in groups has an idea set in their heads of splitting work into a separate section for each member. Whilst this method appeals to me as it allows me to do the bulk of my work alone, it usually results in terrible reports at the end.
In my last group project, we were very specifically told that we should not work on individual sections, yet just five minutes later after we formed groups, the natural leader said "you can do this, and you can do this..."
In the end I volunteered to combine the groups sections into a single report. It was dire, I practically re-wrote the whole thing. First of all there were things like blatant differences in grammar or repetition of facts, then there were things like inconsistencies and contradictions that I had to make sense of. But what I hate most of all is having to deal with some peoples obsessions with irrelevant or unimportant facts.
I actually enjoyed it a bit though, because it was like a jigsaw.
 
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I found the best way is to tell the others in the group that are are going to do x, and go do it yourself. The others won't necessarily appreciate your efforts when you do this, but screw them.

Alternatively, it is a good way to meet others, as you already have something to talk about and therefore are not required to engage in small talk.
That doesn't stop it being frustrating though.
 

Lobstrich

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I tend to be all in for group work. Saves me doing a lot of work.

If it's a topic which I'm interested in, I prefer doing it alone, as there's nobody around to tell me what to write and what to think.
 

EditorOne

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Group work becomes more interesting and rewarding if the result is worthwhile. Just a footnote for those who are put off not by the need to work with others in a small group, but by the degraded work product you're seeing. It doesn't always have to produce crap.

Speaking very broadly, it is also easier to work in a group of people you've known for quite a while. You don't have to like them, but your comfort level with them will be a lot higher than an arbitrary grouping based on who is sitting near whom in a classroom of strangers.

The default position is as noted: Be the person who volunteers for the role of "final assembly." We are 1. Better suited to seeing the big picture 2. Better suited to analyzing component parts and relating them to each other and 3. Much more comfortable when in a position to put our imprimatur (ie, 'get it right') on the final product. Just remember when you do that - when you volunteer and when you do it - to remain aware of the relatively larger role emotions play in the personalities of others. "Since you are all clods who can't count or spell, it would be best if you let me put this together at the end and save us all from your shortcomings" is not the way to go. Not because it's not nice, but because it won't get you the desired result. You'll be put in charge of punctuation or something. "It looks like the final assembly of this will be a big ugly bear to wrestle with. I don't have a life, so I've got the time, so I'll do it." A little self-deprecation (that is probably also true, as phrased) will get you where you need to go.
 

BigApplePi

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I prefer doing it alone, as there's nobody around to tell me what to write and what to think.
Group work ... doesn't always have to produce crap.

Speaking very broadly, it is also easier to work in a group of people you've known for quite a while. You don't have to like them, but your comfort level with them will be a lot higher than an arbitrary grouping based on who is sitting near whom in a classroom of strangers.
I'm thinking of an extrovert who confronted with a group project might enjoy themselves, increasing their chances of fitting right in, but not necessarily.

An INTP when confronted with a group would have a tougher time. But an INTP as Editor1 says has certain skills. If the group of people is well-known and one gets along with them, the social distance disappears. If the subject matter is one of the INTP's skills

Editor 1: 1. Better suited to seeing the big picture 2. Better suited to analyzing component parts and relating them to each other and 3. Much more comfortable when in a position to put our imprimatur (ie, 'get it right') on the final product.
, then they have an chance of optimum contribution. If the INTP can treat the group players as positions in a game to be contemplated and moved into position, the human group aspect strangely vanishes.
 

Minuend

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Hate! Hate!

Student 1 writes A, student 2 writes C and student 3 writes B, then combine to a ugly mass.
 

Dr. Freeman

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I actually had a good expierence with group work in my intro to engineering class. After a year of bad expierences with people who seem incapable of rational or creative thought and being forced into a leadership position, I finally was placed in a group of highly intelligent people, and I made an almost flawless design, and together we executed the design perfectly. Great expierence. (Three other members, an INTJ, an INTP, and an ISTP)
 

Lobstrich

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being forced into a leadership position

Ah yes, I hate this as well. I'm not going to all those I were in groups what you did. As I don't know, and I never will because they didn't participate it's just like "meh" every time you ask for their contribution. And that always forces me into a leadership position, which is annoying. I'd much rather just solve the problem alone than tell other people how to solve it.
 
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