# Game of Thrones

#### Jennywocky

##### guud languager
I soooo knew it was gonna be her. lol
I admit, I totally didn't see it coming. I was just like, "No f*cking way." Tyrion already looked resigned and miserable... and then it got so much worse.

So as an audience member, I was devastated.
But as a writer, I was like, "This is so awesome."

She never left. Boy did they make a point of glossing over that and moving on...
Yeah, I'm wondering what's up with Bronn. Did he sell out Tyrion, business as usual? Or did he get her on the boat, and Cersei nabbed her before sailing? Or did Shae GO to Cersei herself and then pretend to sail while never leaving at all? Just so curious.

In the show, she's obviously out to bury him. (The book supposedly says she never loved him and did it for money.) Here, he finally pleads with her and says, "Shae, please don't..." and she just looks at him with momentary hurt and says, "I'm your whore, remember?" and then goes to continue.

#### Redfire

##### and Blood
"The Mountain" alone would provide enough meat to stuff omelets for two Australian rugby teams.
True enough. Joffrey would make a much finer plate though. Gives a whole new meaning to Burger King.

#### Base groove

##### Banned
Yeah, I'm wondering what's up with Bronn. Did he sell out Tyrion, business as usual? Or did he get her on the boat, and Cersei nabbed her before sailing? Or did Shae GO to Cersei herself and then pretend to sail while never leaving at all? Just so curious.

In the show, she's obviously out to bury him. (The book supposedly says she never loved him and did it for money.) Here, he finally pleads with her and says, "Shae, please don't..." and she just looks at him with momentary hurt and says, "I'm your whore, remember?" and then goes to continue.
It seemed pretty authentic but I actually think it was a trick and she has a plan to save him. A key element of the plan involves him being fully convinced she is out to bury him but she is devious and never to be underestimated. That is my belief about the future.

#### Cherry Cola

##### Banned
Tyrion wouldnt want Bronn involved, he wouldn't risk his life. Whether Bronn would risk his I don't know, I don't think it impossible.

I think I figured something out, Oberyn is called the red viper.

#### Jennywocky

##### guud languager
It seemed pretty authentic but I actually think it was a trick and she has a plan to save him. A key element of the plan involves him being fully convinced she is out to bury him but she is devious and never to be underestimated. That is my belief about the future.
I have no idea, but the possibility is interesting.

I'm just not sure what she would plan that would entail completely burying him at court to ensure his execution. I can hear Tyrion exclaiming, "And you thought that was a brilliant strategy, and how again?" Lol.

True enough. Joffrey would make a much finer plate though. Gives a whole new meaning to Burger King.
okay, that was good for a laugh.

... but I'm not sure I could even peck at Joffrey's flesh without puking all over the bucket lady.

#### Reluctantly

##### Resident disMember
What signs of intuition do you see in Tywin? He's concrete, uses plain language, displays a natural mastery of facts and no signs of inferior sensing.
He says some things that struck me as interesting, beyond what sensors will.

He had his view on family legacy that he lectured Jamie on early in the show. None of the other characters seemed to put that kind of philosophical thought into the purpose of their life. He's looking at his power struggles from the perspective of a group of people and not just his own ambitions.

There was also the dialogue with Arya that he had at one point. Tywin put a lot of thought into Arya's behaviors and what she did and said and what that would mean. It was a very unique experience he had with her. And he both enjoyed and appreciated her for her intellect, which sensors don't seem to value in itself, but value for what sensory experiences the intellect can produce instead.

When Joffrey died, Tywin lectured the new king on wisdom and what makes a good king. It became very philosophical and was something that intuitives tend to put a lot of thought into. It was something that I think INTPs might relate to in their ponderings and a breath of fresh air from the whimsical Joffrey, who I imagine could be said to have been a very sadistic ESTP.

I also remember a scene where Joffrey tried to assert his power over Tywin; and Tywin responded with silence and patience and then said the king was tired and should get some rest. It was an interesting response. Tywin is able to abstract himself from what's going on and create a response that seeks more to act on the situation and control/contain it from getting bad, instead of reacting and letting things escalate. Though maybe this is just more points toward introversion and not so much intuition in this case, but it's how I kind of interpreted it.

#### Minuend

##### pat pat
I didn't read much beyond the trial. But I don't remember it stating explicit that Shae didn't love Tyrion. Then again, I didn't read too thoroughly. I just figured it was partly* because she sincerely felt betrayed by Tyrion for not taking her as wife or so, being unable to understand why it was not possible for someone like her to wed Tyrion.

I think the dwarf is the only interesting character in the show, probably the only reason I keep watching the dreadfully boring thing. And I somewhat hope something interesting will happen. I tried reading the books, but the 4th was so fucking boring I just couldn't keep at it.

*edit: other part being threatened or rewarded for her betrayal

#### Base groove

##### Banned
I'm having trouble with the prospect that her involvement really was that bland. Maybe she was captured or something.

#### Reluctantly

##### Resident disMember
I figured she was coerced so that Tyrion would get off with a lesser punishment and she wouldn't get hurt in return as well - win-win for her. Reasons being that she was concerned when Tyrion asked for trial by combat. It was also weird how quickly Tywin agreed to Jamie's terms; everything before the trial by combat bit all seemed extremely planned.

#### Jennywocky

##### guud languager
I'm not sure why that would be "weird." It seems pretty clear that Jaime (out of loyalty to Tyrion) did exactly what Tywin arranged to happen and had hoped would happen. Tywin had obviously thought through it all ahead of time, since as soon as Jaime volunteered, Tywin accepted and explained all the ramifications TO him.

Tywin's got everything figured out. He's always writing letters. he arranged for the events of the Red Wedding + a ton of other events.

The end of the episode was the shocker, because Tyrion didn't follow the plan. That's what was so amusing, Tywin was caught off-guard.

#### Reluctantly

##### Resident disMember
Well, weird from Jaime's perspective. Jaime was presenting a compromise, but Tywin was quick to agree to it, as if he wasn't really losing anything (and he wasn't). I imagine it's typical to find it odd or weird when in Jaime's shoes (in the sense of being a bit unsettling or perplexing), expecting a different reaction where Tywin has to consider compromise, instead of agreeing almost immediately. It could make someone feel like a pawn or a fish, manipulated by someone else's hands.

#### Jennywocky

##### guud languager
Well, weird from Jaime's perspective. Jaime was presenting a compromise, but Tywin was quick to agree to it, as if he wasn't really losing anything (and he wasn't). I imagine it's typical to find it odd or weird when in Jaime's shoes (in the sense of being a bit unsettling or perplexing), expecting a different reaction where Tywin has to consider compromise, instead of agreeing almost immediately. It could make someone feel like a pawn or a fish, manipulated by someone else's hands.
Yes, that's likely how Jaime felt, from the look on his face. You can see it on his face, that he's kind of put off by it. But to his honor, despite knowing his father was taking advantage of him, he was still willing to go along with the plan in order to save Tyrion. He didn't waver in his willingness to sacrifice.

#### Jennywocky

##### guud languager
That scene tonight in Tyrion's prison cell was very moving.

Oberyn never was taken in by Cersei, he's always seen through her. In fact, he apparently knew her feelings about Tyrion from the time Tyrion was born. And he never saw Tyrion as the monster everyone spoke of him as... he just saw a baby, albeit one a little different, but still just a human baby. Defending Tyrion is not only part of preventing injustice by the Lannisters again Tyrion but also part of accomplishing his own goals in King's Landing and getting justice for his own family.

The plan I guessed at myself actually was Tyrion's plan, his strategy... but the reality is that Jaime just isn't capable of being his champion. Tyrion even made the joke about how much it would crush Tywin if Jaime died in the fight, and they both laughed about how it was almost worth it just to see father's expression. But Tyrion was kind of devastated -- his first choice had been Jaime, his second was Bronn -- who he couldn't pay enough to outbid his sister -- and he was at a loss until Oberyn came.

Oh, and we're running out of Batshit Crazy; we'll need to order more.

And yeah, that guy [YOU KNOW WHO] IS a freaking creeper. It was pretty clear over the last few episodes, tonight was just confirmation.

#### Budthestud

##### BAMF
That scene tonight in Tyrion's prison cell was very moving.

Oberyn never was taken in by Cersei, he's always seen through her. In fact, he apparently knew her feelings about Tyrion from the time Tyrion was born. And he never saw Tyrion as the monster everyone spoke of him as... he just saw a baby, albeit one a little different, but still just a human baby. Defending Tyrion is not only part of preventing injustice by the Lannisters again Tyrion but also part of accomplishing his own goals in King's Landing and getting justice for his own family.

The plan I guessed at myself actually was Tyrion's plan, his strategy... but the reality is that Jaime just isn't capable of being his champion. Tyrion even made the joke about how much it would crush Tywin if Jaime died in the fight, and they both laughed about how it was almost worth it just to see father's expression. But Tyrion was kind of devastated -- his first choice had been Jaime, his second was Bronn -- who he couldn't pay enough to outbid his sister -- and he was at a loss until Oberyn came.

Oh, and we're running out of Batshit Crazy; we'll need to order more.

And yeah, that guy [YOU KNOW WHO] IS a freaking creeper. It was pretty clear over the last few episodes, tonight was just confirmation.
First of all if you are reading this far in and havn't watched the latest episode, you do not have my sympathy :P

As soon as I saw the mountain I totally called that the dorn guy was going to be Tyrions champion

as for [YOU KNOW WHO], I am guessing Peter? lol I am not actually sure who you are talking about but that's my logical guess. I am glad he killed that bitch

I want to see the rest of the season already! HBO, Y U NO LET ME BINGE WATCH!!

#### Cherry Cola

##### Banned
So I guess Tyrion was actually willing to sacrifice Bronn. That fucker. Jaime sure, I mean it would've been epic seeing both brothers go out together in front of Tywin. But Bronn? Come on, that's expecting too much.

#### Jennywocky

##### guud languager
So I guess Tyrion was actually willing to sacrifice Bronn. That fucker. Jaime sure, I mean it would've been epic seeing both brothers go out together in front of Tywin. But Bronn? Come on, that's expecting too much.
Hey, Bronn was a sellsword. That's his job. (And note that Tyrion dies if Bronn dies.)

So they re-negotiated Bronn's contract and Tyrion just couldn't meet his sister's offer. It's just business, which pretty much Bronn and Tyrion agreed, no hard feelings despite genuinely liking each other.

But Bronn did make the great point that Tyrion had never really put himself at permanent risk (AKA death) for Bronn, and Tyrion recognized the truth in that when Bronn brought it up. I could see Tyrion doing everything he could to help Bronn if their situations were reversed ... but that wouldn't include dying for him. So yeah... there were limits.

...

Littlefinger: "In another world, if things had turned out differently, I might have been your dad, my sweet Sansanita... so come here and stick your tongue down Daddy's throat!" Dear god, that poor girl. She might just throw herself out the Moon gate after the last four seasons.

#### Cherry Cola

##### Banned
Meh it went beyond business, it was all the friendship too, it's just that friendship has limits as well. If it were anyone but Gregor hey could'a done it though :P Fucking Cersei.

And Sansa's doing better. Slapping that cunt was good. Hanging out with Littlefinger gets her brain working, you can see it. She's full of doubt and questions, she's learning.

#### Blarraun

##### straightedgy
I'd like to see Arya picking up martial arts and killing everyone, or most of the cast. I have no further expectations from this poor storyline.

It's not that I expect anything...Just toying with the prospect.

#### Jennywocky

##### guud languager
... Slapping that cunt was good.
On second thought, that little wretch will starve to death now.

#### Redfire

##### and Blood
Littlefinger: "In another world, if things had turned out differently, I might have been your dad, my sweet Sansanita... so come here and stick your tongue down Daddy's throat!" Dear god, that poor girl. She might just throw herself out the Moon gate after the last four seasons.
Not to mention that it's not shown how Lord Baby crawls into her bed at night, since her mother is...shall we say, busy. So yeah, for a noble lady her life kind of sucks.
That said, slapping Robert is kind of a dumb move. She should strive to get into his good side, the way Margaery did with Joffrey.

#### Base groove

##### Banned
That said, slapping Robert is kind of a dumb move. She should strive to get into his good side, the way Margaery did with Joffrey.
Haven't seen it yet, about to watch, but I'm sure you mean Robin.

They changed his name to Robin for the show to avoid confusion with Robb Stark. While all this 'spoiler' talk was going on last week I just read the entire Wikipedia collection on the continents and denizens of Westeros, complete with every spoiler conceivable, that's how I know that little factoid.

#### Redfire

##### and Blood
Haven't seen it yet, about to watch, but I'm sure you mean Robin.

They changed his name to Robin for the show to avoid confusion with Robb Stark. While all this 'spoiler' talk was going on last week I just read the entire Wikipedia collection on the continents and denizens of Westeros, complete with every spoiler conceivable, that's how I know that little factoid.
Yeah, you are right.
Is that why they changed Asha's name to Yara too?

#### Budthestud

##### BAMF
On second thought, that little wretch will starve to death now.
LMFAO!

#### Jennywocky

##### guud languager
Yeah, you are right.
Is that why they changed Asha's name to Yara too?
Yes, what I read said it was to keep the name from being confused with other names.

That said, slapping Robert is kind of a dumb move. She should strive to get into his good side, the way Margaery did with Joffrey.
1. That's not Sansa's personality, she's too straight-forward.
2. He won't be around much longer. Fish gotta swim, Robins gotta fly!

#### Reluctantly

##### Resident disMember
And yeah, that guy [YOU KNOW WHO] IS a freaking creeper. It was pretty clear over the last few episodes, tonight was just confirmation.
Haha. As soon as he was next to her at that spot, I called it before it happened; and then it happened just like that. That guy freaks me out too. The kid's kind of creepy as well. Oberyn should be fun to watch; I hope he has something in mind to kill gregor, without playing fair. It's more exciting that way.

#### Jennywocky

##### guud languager
Haha. As soon as he was next to her at that spot, I called it before it happened; and then it happened just like that.
Yeah, his body language was like, "Girl, we're gonna lock lips here, and you're gonna love it," and then I was like OMG no fucking way and then he was doing it and then she was like, "shit did that happen?? WTF??? Why does god hate me??" and I was like "Oh geez girl can't you ever get a break?"

... sorry, my son is listening to Jenna Marbles as I'm typing and I kinda absorbed her speaking style.

That guy freaks me out too. The kid's kind of creepy as well. Oberyn should be fun to watch; I hope he has something in mind to kill gregor, without playing fair. It's more exciting that way.
yeah, I'm having trouble waiting until next week to see this. I've heard the last three episodes are like a supersonic train ride. I have no real clue what's gonna happen here. But it should be one hell of a fight.

#### The Gopher

##### President
Guys I come here for post episode commentary where did you all go?

#### Jennywocky

##### guud languager
Guys I come here for post episode commentary where did you all go?
Too fucking depressed.
WTF?????!!!!....

I had to take half a sleeping pill after that.

... I actually tried to post last night after I watched it, but I couldn't get a post to work so I just said thwi.

----

Lessons learned:
This is why extroverts should never be allowed to undertake missions of pivotal importance.
The time they could have spent finishing the job is always spent talking. ROFL.

------

Oh look, our little Sansa is all grown up now!
I think Baelish might be quaking in his boots a little.
Is he in over his head?

A bit of girl bonding in the brothel there -- solidarity, sistahs! *fist pump*
Oh, and Sam's an idiot.

One character gets a promotion. (Srsly?!)
Another gets a demotion. (SRSLY?!) Fuckin' Tywin and his fuckin' letters.

The pillar sans stones looks into the heart of the sun and romance kindles. (I would say I was excited by the possibility of new love, except I know that anything good in this show eventually gets shat all over. Run, Grey Worm. Run!!!)

Theron Greyjoy as Reek as Theron Greyjoy: $100 Beetle-crunching stories:$1000
Arya's compulsive laughter at the newest news: Priceless

As far as the rest... it is something we shall never talk about, from this day until the final ending.

#### The Gopher

##### President
The compulsive laughter was indeed priceless, highlight of the episode.

#### Redfire

##### and Blood
As far as the rest... it is something we shall never talk about, from this day until the final ending.
Hm....ok.
You owe me

Sansa finally shined in this episode. Good for her.

The pillar sans stones looks into the heart of the sun and romance kindles. (I would say I was excited by the possibility of new love, except I know that anything good in this show eventually gets shat all over. Run, Grey Worm. Run!!!)
That actually got me curious about the whole subject. I googled a bit and it seems that some eunuchs can actually have sex, provided they cut only the stones and not the pillar. I didn't know that. I guess their sex drive is immensely lowered, though.

#### Jennywocky

##### guud languager
Hm....ok.
You owe me
Well, if you wanna talk about it, we can. I'm gonna rewatch it tonight, lol.
But....argggg.

I'm assuming Martin needed to play a card to drag Dorne into the clusterf&ck that Westeros is becoming, and that should do nicely. I mean, we were running out of major players with all the deaths in seasons 1-3.

Sansa finally shined in this episode. Good for her.
It kinda helped that some of the baddies have already been weeded out. She might have a fighting chance.

That actually got me curious about the whole subject. I googled a bit and it seems that some eunuchs can actually have sex, provided they cut only the stones and not the pillar. I didn't know that. I guess their sex drive is immensely lowered, though.
We were having this discussion briefly on another thread.

Apparently some cultures typically remove the pillar and stones, others just the stones. I've never really heard of just removing the pillar.

Yet, if they are created to be fighting machines, cutting their testosterone before puberty seems like a lousy idea. Testosterone won't just impact sex drive, it contributes to muscle mass and similar desirable traits in soldiers. (Libido energy also can be directed elsewhere besides sex, to positive outcome.)

So yeah, if they only gelded him, he can still get an erection and have sex.

#### Redfire

##### and Blood
We were having this discussion briefly on another thread.

Apparently some cultures typically remove the pillar and stones, others just the stones. I've never really heard of just removing the pillar.
It's just not as sexy as the other options.

Yet, if they are created to be fighting machines, cutting their testosterone before puberty seems like a lousy idea. Testosterone won't just impact sex drive, it contributes to muscle mass and similar desirable traits in soldiers.
That's true. (real)Men just make better warriors. But training can overcome that. I certainly wouldn't want to mess with any Unsullied, regardless of my full genitalia.

My thinking at first was that it would at least make them more submissive and less likely to rebel. But I had second thoughts after they slaughtered all their masters. At the very least it should make them less distracted.

(Libido energy also can be directed elsewhere besides sex, to positive outcome.)
It certainly can, I read a paper explaining Freud and Nietzsche's view on sublimation once. Newton, Tesla and Erdos are some examples of continent men who instead became science studs.
But I don't masturbate and it doesn't seem to be working for me yet, so the theory doesn't always apply. (I'm still young though).

So yeah, if they only gelded him, he can still get an erection and have sex.
That's an awesome option for Missandei then. All the perks of sex minus the mess and the babies!

##### think again losers
I'd have liked to have seen Tyrion name Jaime his champion, not because Jaime stood a chance, but because Tywin, and to a certain extent Cersie, can't afford to lose him. Tyrion would no longer need to find a way to save himself because he'd have Tywin working around the clock to save his two sons.

#### Jennywocky

##### guud languager
I think it came up in discussion earlier after the trial scene aired; and that was my take, in that narratively and dramatically it would put Tywin in a HUGE bind. (I think it was one reason Tywin was all dumbfounded and pissed when Tyrion called for trial by combat.)

In the show, Tyrion *expected* Jaime to be his champion (you can tell by the conversation he and Jaime have in the next episode), but Jaime declines. He wants to do it, but he knows he's incapable of winning... so he refuses. I think he really wanted to do it, if he could.

I've watched the fight from last night a few times, and Jaime is thrilled at how well Oberyn is doing -- he keeps smiling at Tyrion across the spectator area, they're the only Lannisters who seem excited at the prospect of Oberyn winning.

I suspect Jaime will do whatever he can to help Tyrion regardless. The Lannister family is falling apart, with the two brothers on one side, and Tywin and Cersie on the other if that much.

#### Base groove

##### Banned
Just watched it. I already knew what was going to happen as I've been poring over the GoT wiki and to a lesser extent the Wiki of Ice and Fire so I was a tad surprised when it looked like he basically had him beat... as I was expecting a good head crushing.

Fuck was that a good head crushing. Aw man you can't help but ... what is word... sad-feel? For the woman, and Tyrion, and Oberyn,... justice or no justice..

Oh Sansa is gonna give herself away before they escape the Vale that is my prediction. I thought the main inquisitor at that hearing didn't actually believe her story and knew exactly when she stopped telling the truth.

Then the creepy dress/jewelery ..... come on... she'll be reunited with her sister briefly, then taken away for more inquisition. She's gonna blow it.

Now that my prediction has landed, I'll be off to double check it against my wikis.

#### Jennywocky

##### guud languager
Fuck was that a good head crushing. Aw man you can't help but ... what is word... sad-feel? For the woman, and Tyrion, and Oberyn,... justice or no justice..
Yeah, note:
(warm final kiss)
Ellaria (fearfully): "Don't leave me alone in this world."
Oberyn (heartfeltly): "Never."

And then the look on her face, when, well, you know... uggh.

EDIT: Tywin's such a beast; he doesn't miss a beat in pronouncing judgement. Kinda funny.

I knew Oberyn was too cool to live.

#### Base groove

##### Banned
Would it be wrong for me to post a bunch of random spoilers here since I've been reading the wiki??

Yes, it would.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Illyrio_Mopatis said:
After Tyrion Lannister was convicted of treason in the poisoning of King Joffrey Baratheon, Varys arranged to smuggle him out of King's Landing and put him in Illyrio's care. When Tyrion arrives to Pentos Illyrio greets him, he hosts Tyrion and offers him a way to become Lord of Casterly Rock. He reveals the truth about Daenerys Targaryen to Tyrion. Tyrion though reluctant and wary saw it as his only chance to gain his birthright and agreed to travel to her. Illyrio also reveals that his interest in supporting the Targaryens is to become the Master of Coin of the Seven Kingdoms.

#### Cherry Cola

##### Banned
I will be proven right, just you wait.

#### Jennywocky

##### guud languager
Would it be wrong for me to post a bunch of random spoilers here since I've been reading the wiki??
Monster.

#### Redfire

##### and Blood
How many bards are there in Westeros? Hundreeds? Thousands?
It's odd that with all their creative power combined they managed to create exactly TWO songs: The Bear and the Maiden Fair, and the Rains of Castamere. It'd be better if they just invented some crappy random nameless songs, than two hear those songs again, and again, and AGAIN.

#### Jennywocky

##### guud languager
Hmmm. I thought we ate all the bards during the last famine.
(and there was much rejoicing.)

... the last official bard I remember seeing in court, Joffrey pulled out his tongue. Aside from those Red Wedding Singer sellouts.

##### Death is coming
I sometimes wonder what watching the show is like if you haven't read the books...
Very strange indeed.

#### Redfire

##### and Blood
Ygritte
I thought they might spare her in the show.

#### Spirit

##### ISTP Preference
Ygritte
I thought they might spare her in the show.
The war gods must have their deaths

#### Jennywocky

##### guud languager
Ygritte
I thought they might spare her in the show.
You know nothing, Red Fire. *dies*

#### Base groove

##### Banned
I thought it was weird how they kept killing so many Night's Watch members yet so many were left alive after the battle.

^