RB it's understandable that you take a hit to your confidence with reading mafia day one.
But it's more difficult to read you if you're just hunting for town. Maybe that's why you're not coming across as as 'sharp' as you were last game. There were several points at which, even though you may have ultimately been wrong, you really nailed someone in a townish way. Hunting scum isn't just about actually lynching them, it's about progressing the zeitgeist and proving yourself town. By tunneling someone on day one you set the stage for day two. For instance, I have no intention of lynching gopher day one, but I'm still building a case.
I'm not really concerned with, "proving myself town" though. I'm playing a game that puts me in a good position to make reads down the track, because I'm pretty certain that I can make better reads than majority of people in the game once the game progresses to a certain point.
Yes, even you. I think you're better at this game overall. You're more experienced, have better understanding of the ins and outs of the game - but I'm better at reads and I don't think being good at reads is a thing that manifests as much through experience in mafia in particular, since reading people isn't a mafia-exclusive skill. It's a game that probably improves it, but they're two separate things.
Thing is that a lot of your reads come on 'scumtells' and shit like that, but the thing is that half the shit you tell me is a scumtell,
isn't seen as a scumtell when I look at various other mafia games on other forums. So I can't be bothered fucking around with, "X behaviour has Y connotation" because I don't think it's at all reliable.
In another game, with another kind of player and in another kind of context - I'd see Reluctantly's behaviour as scummy because it looks like he's cop/doc-hunting. But I don't think he is this game. So when you say, "this is a scumtell" I don't buy it. I think there's behaviours that genuinely need to be encouraged or discouraged (martyring - yes) but that they aren't necessarily scumtells.
It's the fact that martyring is such an unhelpful
NO-TELL that makes us discourage it. Once someone does that, all bets are off. If they're town they're just being dumb and refusing to help, because they should be absolutely spending all of their energy trying to direct us the right way and providing their reads - so that when they die and flip green, we can now confirm all their opinions and thoughts were honestly for the benefit of town.
But, that doesn't mean town don't do it. So it's good we've discouraged it, and for the record I'm not going to let anyone get away with it. Anyone who pulls an ESC gets voted, I don't give a fuck either. But if that's not expressly established at the start of the game, it's not a scumtell.
Yeah my confidence in Day 1 reads took a hit, but my confidence in later-game reads got a boost, since I picked Zerkalo + Puffy pretty easily at start of Day 2. I let you pull me off Zerkalo to ESC because you seemed really sure, and while I don't necessarily disagree with how you play (hardcore scumhunt 24/7) I don't agree that it's the right style for me.
Hadoblado said:
And hunting town is kind of a standard scum tell btw. It's normal to try and confirm town, but it isn't your active duty. If people don't stand out as green to you then don't go to efforts to prove them green unless there's an easy tell (like last game with me figuring out Sinny early on, as I had a solid prediction of what town sinny would look like). If you're still not certain now, just leave it be and hunt scum.
I have two easy tells, you and Reluctantly. Reluctantly's strategy shtick isn't what mafia do. If mafia cop hunt or try to pass off as being town by posting strategies and whatnot, then their follow-up behaviours are also going to be things to try and make them look more town (because it looks retarded to just come in, post a bunch of shit about power roles and then disappear for another 24 hours like he did).
At least, I don't register him as trying hard to look town. I don't read either scum intent or any inconsistency in anything he says.
Hadoblado said:
Btw I think we can start contributing properly again now. We've given ample time, and people stepped up to the plate. I need to finish this case off, but I'll be popping in to offer thoughts etc.
In that case, I'll justify why before I thought you were town and why now I'm almost certain you're town.
When I sheeped you I figured you'd be suspicious and 'turn' on me for it. It's what both town and mafia Hado would do, so that's not what sold it. Especially since Gopher is in the game, I had to confirm that you weren't bussing each other and were both mafia or else I couldn't play this card because you'd both just support the sheeping and ride me all the way to victory. There'd be no way town could beat a Gopher-Hado mafia combo with me sheeping (no offence town).
Town Hado turns on me, because he's genuinely suspicious about my sheep. He has a case and needs to rule out that I'm conveniently sheeping him just to play last game's meta.
Mafia Hado turns suspicion on me, because he knows there's potential that someone (Gopher especially) will see straight through the sheep and recognize the danger of potential mafia Hado having Town RB sheep him all game. It's going to divide Town. Mafia Hado knows that Gopher knows this, so Hado turns on me first to clear himself of guilt.
The difference though, is that mafia Hado would never say this:
Hadoblado said:
While I'm not confident he wouldn't catch me as scum, a player on their second game has no business being that confident they could catch an experienced player without issue.
It's a sore spot that I'm digging at by saying you just outright can't beat me if you're mafia, and if you're mafia you're not going to defend it like that because if I'm sheeping you and calling you town, mafia Hado wouldn't plant the seed that, "Actually I could beat you dick." - because if you're really mafia and I sheep you, then you already
KNOW that you're winning and you can just sit there smugly and ride my misplaced arrogance to victory.
So you're town, and I'd implore others that even if I get lynched by Hado - when I flip green, please don't reflexively lynch him in response. Thanks.
Obviously none of this makes me more green, but when and if I die then you'll at least know you can trust Hado.
