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Forum Mafia Game #2

The Gopher

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Also gopher thanks for bringing the vote count back to my attention, who's the fourth vote on happy? I only recall you, Reluctantly and sinny voting
Jenny

It's actually very clever if he is scum. It comes off as extremely pro town but simultaneously gives him an excuse not to actively participate. It's better than just brushing stuff off on outside commitments.
Yeah ikr. But unfortunately I can't exactly make the case on him until I see why he's making the case on me and see why it took so long. It makes sense for him to have to make it today otherwise if I was mafia I could just Nk him before he did. Basically I can see reasons why what he's doing could be town it's really gonna depend on what actually happens when it does. Hence how we ended up in this weird leave it til day two situation.

However the compromise could work depending on how much he has.

Also Lunch social time starts now. Kill me.
 

Helvete

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Jenny



Yeah ikr. But unfortunately I can't exactly make the case on him until I see why he's making the case on me and see why it took so long. It makes sense for him to have to make it today otherwise if I was mafia I could just Nk him before he did. Basically I can see reasons why what he's doing could be town it's really gonna depend on what actually happens when it does. Hence how we ended up in this weird leave it til day two situation.

However the compromise could work depending on how much he has.

Also Lunch social time starts now. Kill me.
So he should post what he has. He should be at least open enough to post a bare bones case to show, to prove he really is doing what he says he is doing, then he can elaborate later.

Hado prove to us you aren't just wasting our time
 

Hadoblado

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I mean that I have nothing against rook joining the game, it's not personal. I'd just prefer Blarraun because the more people swap the more confusing it is. I would prefer Rook to jump in than for that slot to be AFK.

@Helvete
I'm starting again. My total word count for the case is 3000 (including the 650 words I've already quoted from it, but not including quotes withing the case), but I'm aware that TMI will diminish impact, and poor phrasing will send town into wifom. When you think like I do there's a lot that could be said that shouldn't be said, because frankly, it's unrelatable.

I'm relying on the fact that reading my case will be the most prominent option for town during the nightphase, I won't be avoiding attention. While you may not have any hard evidence of my case now, not coughing up a good case would make me look terrible tomorrow. You'd have scum hado over a barrel. Considering I've not been in any danger of being lynched day one, it's completely unnecessary for me to resort to such stall tactics as scum. Trust me now because a scum Hado has no incentive to avoid posting.

@Gopher
Twilight is a phase where I don't know how much time is in it. QT could be on the ball and end it within ten minutes, or it could be ten hours. If I don't post it before the end of twilight, I've given a mafia Gopher a golden opportunity to kill me and have the case never hit OR a golden opportunity for mafia to frame town Gopher by killing me.

To be honest, I have not been paying as much attention to the middle of the pack. None of them are as clear a read as you. My real reads are unattainable day one, so hunting these guys would be forced. I am paying a loose attention to them, and I'm picking up a fair few greensigns, but I'm not able to tunnel hard enough to attain the scumsign while also completing this case.
 

The Gopher

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Oh he will, just at twilight so it doesn't detract from today. See him not posting at all and just working on the case detracts from the lynch today but also posting (the case on me) today before lynch also detracts from it since if it's as long as it should be there's no reasonable way I'm gonna be able to reply to it which would be a scum tactic.

What I was suggesting is he stops working on it and instead posts what he has on it today at twilight and instead focuses on the lynch today.

and now I'm getting yelled at for not being at lunch.
 

redbaron

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RB it's understandable that you take a hit to your confidence with reading mafia day one.

But it's more difficult to read you if you're just hunting for town. Maybe that's why you're not coming across as as 'sharp' as you were last game. There were several points at which, even though you may have ultimately been wrong, you really nailed someone in a townish way. Hunting scum isn't just about actually lynching them, it's about progressing the zeitgeist and proving yourself town. By tunneling someone on day one you set the stage for day two. For instance, I have no intention of lynching gopher day one, but I'm still building a case.
I'm not really concerned with, "proving myself town" though. I'm playing a game that puts me in a good position to make reads down the track, because I'm pretty certain that I can make better reads than majority of people in the game once the game progresses to a certain point.

Yes, even you. I think you're better at this game overall. You're more experienced, have better understanding of the ins and outs of the game - but I'm better at reads and I don't think being good at reads is a thing that manifests as much through experience in mafia in particular, since reading people isn't a mafia-exclusive skill. It's a game that probably improves it, but they're two separate things.

Thing is that a lot of your reads come on 'scumtells' and shit like that, but the thing is that half the shit you tell me is a scumtell, isn't seen as a scumtell when I look at various other mafia games on other forums. So I can't be bothered fucking around with, "X behaviour has Y connotation" because I don't think it's at all reliable.

In another game, with another kind of player and in another kind of context - I'd see Reluctantly's behaviour as scummy because it looks like he's cop/doc-hunting. But I don't think he is this game. So when you say, "this is a scumtell" I don't buy it. I think there's behaviours that genuinely need to be encouraged or discouraged (martyring - yes) but that they aren't necessarily scumtells.

It's the fact that martyring is such an unhelpful NO-TELL that makes us discourage it. Once someone does that, all bets are off. If they're town they're just being dumb and refusing to help, because they should be absolutely spending all of their energy trying to direct us the right way and providing their reads - so that when they die and flip green, we can now confirm all their opinions and thoughts were honestly for the benefit of town.

But, that doesn't mean town don't do it. So it's good we've discouraged it, and for the record I'm not going to let anyone get away with it. Anyone who pulls an ESC gets voted, I don't give a fuck either. But if that's not expressly established at the start of the game, it's not a scumtell.

Yeah my confidence in Day 1 reads took a hit, but my confidence in later-game reads got a boost, since I picked Zerkalo + Puffy pretty easily at start of Day 2. I let you pull me off Zerkalo to ESC because you seemed really sure, and while I don't necessarily disagree with how you play (hardcore scumhunt 24/7) I don't agree that it's the right style for me.

Hadoblado said:
And hunting town is kind of a standard scum tell btw. It's normal to try and confirm town, but it isn't your active duty. If people don't stand out as green to you then don't go to efforts to prove them green unless there's an easy tell (like last game with me figuring out Sinny early on, as I had a solid prediction of what town sinny would look like). If you're still not certain now, just leave it be and hunt scum.
I have two easy tells, you and Reluctantly. Reluctantly's strategy shtick isn't what mafia do. If mafia cop hunt or try to pass off as being town by posting strategies and whatnot, then their follow-up behaviours are also going to be things to try and make them look more town (because it looks retarded to just come in, post a bunch of shit about power roles and then disappear for another 24 hours like he did).

At least, I don't register him as trying hard to look town. I don't read either scum intent or any inconsistency in anything he says.

Hadoblado said:
Btw I think we can start contributing properly again now. We've given ample time, and people stepped up to the plate. I need to finish this case off, but I'll be popping in to offer thoughts etc.
In that case, I'll justify why before I thought you were town and why now I'm almost certain you're town.

When I sheeped you I figured you'd be suspicious and 'turn' on me for it. It's what both town and mafia Hado would do, so that's not what sold it. Especially since Gopher is in the game, I had to confirm that you weren't bussing each other and were both mafia or else I couldn't play this card because you'd both just support the sheeping and ride me all the way to victory. There'd be no way town could beat a Gopher-Hado mafia combo with me sheeping (no offence town).

Town Hado turns on me, because he's genuinely suspicious about my sheep. He has a case and needs to rule out that I'm conveniently sheeping him just to play last game's meta.

Mafia Hado turns suspicion on me, because he knows there's potential that someone (Gopher especially) will see straight through the sheep and recognize the danger of potential mafia Hado having Town RB sheep him all game. It's going to divide Town. Mafia Hado knows that Gopher knows this, so Hado turns on me first to clear himself of guilt.

The difference though, is that mafia Hado would never say this:

Hadoblado said:
While I'm not confident he wouldn't catch me as scum, a player on their second game has no business being that confident they could catch an experienced player without issue.
It's a sore spot that I'm digging at by saying you just outright can't beat me if you're mafia, and if you're mafia you're not going to defend it like that because if I'm sheeping you and calling you town, mafia Hado wouldn't plant the seed that, "Actually I could beat you dick." - because if you're really mafia and I sheep you, then you already KNOW that you're winning and you can just sit there smugly and ride my misplaced arrogance to victory.

So you're town, and I'd implore others that even if I get lynched by Hado - when I flip green, please don't reflexively lynch him in response. Thanks.

Obviously none of this makes me more green, but when and if I die then you'll at least know you can trust Hado.
 

The Gopher

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Yeah exactly so it's very important you follow the thread closely and maybe even cast the last vote on a lynch.
 

Hadoblado

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Oh shiiiiit now I feel like Merlin. Judgement is skewed because it's too close to home.

Either RB you're a clever town, or a very clever mafia. I'm not going to read you green just yet, but I will scale back the red read.

I'm not convinced I wouldn't have offered resistance if I was mafia. But I do believe a town RB would think that I wouldn't.

Re: Scumtell
It's always the case that scumtells are only statistical. You always reference the tell with what you expect from the person. For instance, there are plenty of scumtells that Gopher does routinely, but that I would not consider a tell that he is scum. What I'm trying to convey with the term 'scumtell' is that in a void, this behaviour is correlated with scumminess or non-towniness. AKA it doesn't help town, which means if you want to be good town, you don't prioritise it.

At your experience level I thought they were bullshit too. But they are a standardised understanding of the game, at least where I learned. And having a mutual point of understanding gives town a position from which to gauge intention.
 

Helvete

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@Hado, thanks for the explanation but what's wrong with gophers suggestion or a simplified version or even just posting half and sitting on the other for the start of D2. if you got NK'd it would only prove you correct so we could hunt gopher. actually if gopher is green mafia would nk you anyway to make gopher a target, yeah alright fucking wifom...

What are peoples thoughts on pmj? it's early wee morning hours uk time so it's pretty unlikely we'll hear anything in time.
 

The Gopher

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Well okay so. You're gonna randomly pick someone? I'm fine if it's fuzzy but I would like to be able to get some voting patterns or intent, now obviously I understand and even suggested you vote last on a lynch but I would like a bit more than that.
 

The Gopher

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Now srsly ppl. Leave me alone!
Fine, it's a weird strat if you are mafia so I kinda want to see how it plays out.

@Hado, thanks for the explanation but what's wrong with gophers suggestion or a simplified version or even just posting half and sitting on the other for the start of D2. if you got NK'd it would only prove you correct so we could hunt gopher. actually if gopher is green mafia would nk you anyway to make gopher a target, yeah alright fucking wifom...

What are peoples thoughts on pmj? it's early wee morning hours uk time so it's pretty unlikely we'll hear anything in time.
I've given my thoughts. When you read all his posts together it's not that bad and it's very consistent with his supposed situation. I still intuitively read him as scum however compared to happy I wouldn't lynch him unless there was good reason. Why what are your thoughts on PMJ? At least compared to Happy. You've been here a lot which is good I want to see if zerk's changed her mind on you at least when compared to happy.
 

redbaron

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What are peoples thoughts on pmj? it's early wee morning hours uk time so it's pretty unlikely we'll hear anything in time.
I read him as 50/50 town/mafia, just because of the style he posted in - but he's actually done nothing necessarily pro-town.

Also a lot of my lack of suspicion was to do with thinking he was quite new and wouldn't have the guts to play the "wee look at me I'm such a mafia!" shtick - but it turns out he's got quite a decent background of experience. So he probably DOES have the guts to do it and being time-poor then (he's one of the few I believe on this account) if he really was a mafia he'd probably need to play some kind of weird gambit to throw people off from the beginning.
 

Hadoblado

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I'm not entirely absent. I will not be randoming. I'm just not under the illusion that I get to pick who gets lynched when I haven't got a strong case on any of the people on the block.

Here's an exert.

I want to make it clear that there is no way in hell that Gopher thought I was lurking for the reasons a scum lurks. At best, a town gopher may have suspected that a scum hado was lurking because scum hado thought that town gopher would think a scum hado would think that too obvious.
You see what I'm fucking dealing with here? You see how that wouldn't help town to understand, even if it's my genuine reasoning? They'd be confused as fuck.

And for the last time no. I will not post a half case. Stop trying to make this lynch about me and my reads. I've posted enough, I've rattled a bunch of people, and you've got my balls in a vice if I don't post a case. As a town you have no reason to be focusing on my case right now, so just fuck off alright? Think for yourselves. It's complete bullshit that if I post stuff I get hated on, and if I don't post stuff I get hated on.
 

Helvete

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I want zerk to answer my question on me over happy.
I'm not really sure on pmj, I have a neutral read on him so far and want to hear more. I think it would be better pursued D2. I think he would be a good candidate for a cop check.
 
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Okay im going out now but I'll back shortly in a couple of hours. i didn't want to rush this post but the whole point is i want people's opinions on this so the earlier I post, the better
Zerk, why is it that Jenny was your 'Jest Vote' at the beginning of the game (Post 5), and then happened to be one of your main concerns from the start as well... Were you just trolling her the time?
Wtf was this post sinny?^ clearly you went through the trouble of going back and looking for the post and post number, and yet you missed the second line in my TWO LINE post that says I had yet to receive a role pm from QT at the time? This just reads like a forced filler question but ANYWAY


Last game's sinny took the counter intuitive approach to playing and played by first identifying certain people as strong town reads, and then reading the rest of the players according to their stance on her town reads. Like I said, this is the counter intuitive thing to do and is what tipped people off to her townliness. she also stuck to her guns throughout, so this did not clash with her forum persona
This game's sinny did not have the same approach, in fact she's playing very normally I guess...and she's not adamant about any of her reads. Not really a scum tell, but it's not helping her look good either

@hado, RB, pmj and happy: who are you voting for?
 

The Gopher

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Lol okay. I'm pretty set on a happy lynch anyway. I just an curious at the lack of voting that isn't on Happy right now. Unless a lot of people want to lynch happy but not do it right now which is fair.

A vote count would be nice actually but I can't be bothered. Hmm maybe I can be...
 
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I want zerk to answer my question on me over happy.
I'm not really sure on pmj, I have a neutral read on him so far and want to hear more. I think it would be better pursued D2. I think he would be a good candidate for a cop check.
I already did, reluctantly asked the same question...I said I might have more to add later but I don't really have anything more to say now
 

The Gopher

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Players
1. PmjPmj - 0
2. Reluctantly - 0
3.Helvete - 1, zerkalo
4. Breadbaron - 0
5. hadototheMtotheothertothemotherfuckingblado - 1, PmjPmj
6. Jennywocky - 0
7. Bronto (The Shadow Cart) - 0,
8. Sinny 91 - 0
9. The Gopher - 1, Happy
10. Cheeseumpuffs - 0
11. Happy - 4, Jennywocky, Gopher, Reluctantly, Sinny
12. zerkalo – 0
13. Urakro – 0

Well can you compile your reasoning? I do it as well where I make a case over like 10 posts and maybe you've compiled it before because I seem to remember it however just for clarity if you have time it would be nice.
 

The Gopher

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EBWOP (just clean up)

Players
1. PmjPmj - 0
2. Reluctantly - 0
3. Helvete - 1, zerkalo
4. Redbaron - 0
5. Hadoblado - 1, PmjPmj
6. Jennywocky - 0
7. Bronto - 0,
8. Sinny 91 - 0
9. The Gopher - 1, Happy
10. Cheeseumpuffs/Blaruran - 0
11. Happy - 4, Jennywocky, Gopher, Reluctantly, Sinny
12. Zerkalo – 0
13. Urakro – 0
 

Hadoblado

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Thanks Gopher.

@Everyone
Please refrain from placing the seventh vote. I have a shadow vote on Happy, so really he's at five. I want to place the last vote so that I can make sure that my case is done and posted. Feel free to keep discussing alternatives too, we can always go back and dogpile Happy if indecision ensues, since everyone who's voted has already indicated they're okay with that outcome.
 

Hadoblado

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If someone's looking for something to do, could you please quote Happy's filter so we can all have a look at it? He's not defending himself, has he got stated reasons for not being here at this time? I think he's been soft bussed.
 

Urakro

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If I had to choose Helvete, Happy, and PMJPMJ, my votes on Helvete.

In doing a username filter search, Happy, and PMJ's line of thinking/narrative throughout the game all adds up, and compiles. They seem to always explain themselves.

Doing the same thing with Helvete only yields suspicions on hado, questions on why bronto should/shouldn't be lynched, and questions about what people think about him.

But couldn't there be a chance all three of them were also innocent as well? They could all be mafia too, I really can't tell.

After reading red's read on reluctantly, that made perfect sense to me. I'm not going back to the cheeseums/Blaurran thing, which I'll admit was really stupid. It was all just a gut thing.

Stupid bronto.

I don't see how Jenny got off the hook so easily though.
 

The Gopher

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Well he said that he had work reasons and stuff but he said he would post last night (or was it even the night before... yeah I think it was friday) our time (same timezone of us) and said the weekend is here now (which the first day and a half our time/his time) which has passed with 0 posts from him.

I'll go validate this by checking again.

So yes but no. It's probably true he has work reasons but I would have assumed a town to make more of a Jennywocky style effort.
 

Helvete

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If someone's looking for something to do, could you please quote Happy's filter so we can all have a look at it? He's not defending himself, has he got stated reasons for not being here at this time? I think he's been soft bussed.
Is the best way to filter by going on the total posts link then clicking individually on the players list of posts? Or is there a simpler way?
 

The Gopher

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Of course it's lazy scum hunting. I already addressed that. I haven't had an opportunity to sit down and analyse yet (I've had a bunch of projects dumped on me at work this week and more to come. With so much on my mind, I haven't exactly had the mental capacity to analyse this). The weekend is here though.

You've also just asked a lot of questions, so let me think on them and I will respond to you later tonight. I have 10% battery and I'm about to begin my second commute for this evening. Need to conserve battery. Will respond properly once I get back to my iPad in a couple hours.
Yeah two days ago. I agree Helevte seems to be doing the oh I'm suspicious but lets just keep asking questions. The main reason I'm on Happy is if Helvte is town it's more of a waste than Happy. That said helvte is being very avoidant and if you feel that way Urako now's the time to vote for him and step up the pressure. 4 hours left.
 

The Gopher

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Is the best way to filter by going on the total posts link then clicking individually on the players list of posts? Or is there a simpler way?
To to the members profile. Statistics, find all posts by user and open up all the ones from this thread in reverse order. Kinda difficult compared to other forums but that's how I do it.
 

The Gopher

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IF YOU ARE CURRENTLY MOST SUSPICIOUS ABOUT SOMEONE VOTE FOR THEM! NOW IS THE TIME. BUT KEEP IN MIND HADO HAS A SHADOW VOTE ON HAPPY AND WANTS TO SUBMIT THE LAST ONE. IF YOU DO PUT THE LAST VOTE ON HAPPY WITHOUT TAKING INTO ACCOUNT HADO'S TOWN REASONS FOR WHAT HE"S DOING THAT'S INCREDIBLY SUSPICIOUS.

Sorry for the caps but we only have 3 hours and 50 minutes left we need to start doing stuff.
 

Urakro

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If someone's looking for something to do, could you please quote Happy's filter so we can all have a look at it? He's not defending himself, has he got stated reasons for not being here at this time? I think he's been soft bussed.
vote Gopher
Mafia > Sleep

Side note: This game has found its way into my dreams lately. Weird.
Okay, so we've yet to hear a defence from either Gopher or Jennywocky, leaving me very suspicious of Cheesypoofs, and all Hado has offered is a conspicuous silence, indicating that Sinny is either right or wrong.
because i was rambling nonsensically, trying to rouse discussion.



I have no defense for that. You got me - I am too happy.
It's a curse, but not one that was bestowed upon me by our LORD and game moderator, QT.
No.

And she's possibly just being cautious.

See above. It doesn't exactly scream suspicious to me. Less suspicious than previous play style at least. No red flags just yet.

Lol I don't log out. It's just a question of whether or not my devices are on. For the record, I was asleep. That was after midnight. It's now morning and I'm in my way to the office.
I like you
I think you're wrong about not being any obvious tells on day one.
We cool. You're probably right to make that judgment.

But I stil want to know what you did with that horse head. We've resolved the violin case, but the picture remains incomplete.
Day one can be the most telling. Peoples first moves in a group are often awkward and uncalculated. The uncertainty with which they make their first actions often reveals their motives on an abstract, qualitative level. This is more true in RL Mafia/werewolf games, but I observed last game that it holds relatively true here too. The way people respond to unjustified accusations is also where I look for my red flags.

That's enough for now.

I'd like to hear from bronto. Even just a little hello will suffice
Alright, starting work now. I may check my phone intermittently throughout the day, but I'm probably just going to be in the zone for the next 9 hours. Cheerio!
For the record: I'd have acted that way in the first game whether I was Mafia or not. I'd decided that before we started. Just to annoy you all, really. I had fun.
I agree with this completely.

But let's not get too wrapped up in game 1 because it's not a reliable precedent. People play different personalities each game, or at least the good players do.
Hado out
Happy in

Finished work and just started my almost 2 hour commute (with 32% battery) let's see if I can make it last.

Any questions: fire away!
I'm not Mafia.
Reason: Because QT didn't give me any of those roles.
To be honest, I don't have any solid reads yet. In saying that, I also haven't dedicated the time to sitting down and analysing posts properly and discerning patterns. I'll do this once I get some alone time with a notepad.

My radar is pointing at Cheesypoofs, Helmet, Sinead and Gough as potential scum. These will be the first that I investigate (unfortunately I'm not a cop, so I won't be able to ascertain anything for certain).

I don't think zerkalo is scum this time round. Hado and RB are of course on my radar, but I need more content. havent formed any opinions about reluctantly, ukakro or Jennywocky yet. I don't think PMJ is scum yet (I'm trying to read him as if he were one of my INTJ friends). I'm curious to see how bronto announces himself.

For now I'm leaving my vote on Gopher for teh lulz
Also, stop calling Cheeseumpuffs "cheese". There's already a user called that and it's annoying the detail oriented part of me...
You're right that some players know each other.

But they're only few in number.

Otherwise, it's just assumptions made about another person on the Internet. You could always start stalking people by looking at their post history if it's that big a deal to you.
Sure goph. Ask me any questions and I will answer them.

I'm not going to blindly give my opinions about every person just to prove I'm paying attention. Give me some criteria to respond to and I will.
Of course it's lazy scum hunting. I already addressed that. I haven't had an opportunity to sit down and analyse yet (I've had a bunch of projects dumped on me at work this week and more to come. With so much on my mind, I haven't exactly had the mental capacity to analyse this). The weekend is here though.

You've also just asked a lot of questions, so let me think on them and I will respond to you later tonight. I have 10% battery and I'm about to begin my second commute for this evening. Need to conserve battery. Will respond properly once I get back to my iPad in a couple hours.
.......Those are all. If that is what you wanted.
 

Helvete

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urrgh fine. It was pretty clear I was doing this, I just hadn't done it yet.

Vote Happy
 

The Gopher

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1. PmjPmj - 0
2. Reluctantly - 0
3. Helvete - 1, zerkalo
4. Redbaron - 0
5. Hadoblado - 1, PmjPmj
6. Jennywocky - 0
7. Bronto - 0,
8. Sinny 91 - 0
9. The Gopher - 1, Happy
10. Cheeseumpuffs/Blaruran - 0
11. Happy - 5, Jennywocky, Gopher, Reluctantly, Sinny, Helvete (Hado has a shadow vote on happy and wants to case the last vote on don't cast the 7th vote)
12. Zerkalo – 0
13. Urakro – 0
 

Helvete

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I already did, reluctantly asked the same question...I said I might have more to add later but I don't really have anything more to say now
No I was asking for an updated opinion based on what I've said since.

Yeah two days ago. I agree Helevte seems to be doing the oh I'm suspicious but lets just keep asking questions. The main reason I'm on Happy is if Helvte is town it's more of a waste than Happy. That said helvte is being very avoidant and if you feel that way Urako now's the time to vote for him and step up the pressure. 4 hours left.
I'm being active to try and alleviate my suspicions, I know I'm suspicious. What am I being avoidant about?
 

The Gopher

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Hmm there was a post before (and in general) that I think was doing the thing urok was accusing me of doing about when being asked questions answering with a question. Sort of what people do when they have a conversation agenda. However I'm now thinking I'm victim to availability bias because you've actually been here recently and this post was nice.

I'm sorry but I never understand any of your reasoning. A previous read surely gets re evaluated after new, potentially incriminating information comes up. Your initial perception is final. You don't add up and just seem to be holding off from any real reasoning. I've not understood like anything you've said and I find this horrible if you are really town.

I wont vote him because there's already a vote on him?! WHAT?
I don't understand the second point as well since imo there was time and if uroko posted possibility to get a lynch on you. It almost seems like taking the easy road and I'd like Sinny's explanation on this.
 

Hadoblado

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Thanks Urakro.

I see this as basically a lurker lynch, which I'm not super happy about, but his action/inaction is consistent with what I think a scum happy would look like, so I'm not attempting to overturn it. If he is scum, he has been soft-bussed 100%.

His reads do speak to me a little... Hmm... But I'd expect that if he were scum too. There's nothing decisive there to make me think he was genuinely invested in any thing he said.

Last game he was thinking in the background and while fairly inactive, he wasn't complete fluff. I would expect town happy to be doing something, having more of a poke like he did with his blue role antics last game, even if he doesn't have much time.
 

Helvete

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Hmm there was a post before (and in general) that I think was doing the thing urok was accusing me of doing about when being asked questions answering with a question. Sort of what people do when they have a conversation agenda. However I'm now thinking I'm victim to availability bias because you've actually been here recently and this post was nice.



I don't understand the second point as well since imo there was time and if uroko posted possibility to get a lynch on you. It almost seems like taking the easy road and I'd like Sinny's explanation on this.
I've been answering the questions thrown at me. When I'm asking questions I'm not trying to deflect attention from myself but bringing up other things which I do think need addressing.

Yes Uruk has time to build a case and lynch me but this doesn't have much to do with my second point. I didn't understand Sinny's reasoning and found it absurd. It's like she's defending me from an old read and I wanted to point this out and have it explained.
 

Urakro

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That said helvte is being very avoidant and if you feel that way Urako now's the time to vote for him and step up the pressure. 4 hours left.
Well, I dunno.

It'd be great if we had a strong scum read, but there isn't any. There are varying degrees of town reads.

I was going to just wait and see if hado and redbaron could do the same kind of convincing me as they did last game when I was spectating. They pretty-well have.

When I decided to get right down to it and get questioning, I started with you, then zerk, and tried reluctantly, and then Blaurran.

I also wanted to confirm sinny. Just need her to have more fun and get drunk. I'd say her true intentions would be clearer that way.

Nobody's really grilled helvete, or happy. Pmj has been though, I think.

And bronto's the weakest link (for team town). He might just get modkilled, then great, but he also could jump from the shadow-cart, and all of a sudden post one thing before ducking back down into the shadow-cart. Then he'll lurk day 2, do the same, and subsequent days. Could be nice if we all said "ha, bronto is town, or bronto is scum..." Once that's over, he could go back into his shadow cart.

Or he can get modkilled, which would be easier.

Nobody would join a Blaurran lynch, and it looks like my options are limited to those 3 that hado mentioned. I don't mind my options limited because I my hands are up and you all seem all right except for lurkers.

But with limited options, I'd say Helvete. I read happy's posts, and I think I understand where he's coming from the whole time.
 

Sinny91

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I'm sorry but I never understand any of your reasoning. A previous read surely gets re evaluated after new, potentially incriminating information comes up. Your initial perception is final. You don't add up and just seem to be holding off from any real reasoning. I've not understood like anything you've said and I find this horrible if you are really town.

I wont vote him because there's already a vote on him?! WHAT?
Wait, calm down a sec
An edit post of mine appatently didn't send through.

By 'him', I meant Happy, not you.

You didn't get my vote because prior to lurking you seemed Town to me.

I voted Happy because he's a lurker I've never had a read on and I want to aid in a unknown lurker lynch.

Very drunk. Shit device. Please appreciate.
 

The Gopher

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Yeah what I'm sort of implying but didn't want to imply because I wanted sinny to answer.... is Sinny by doing that strange vote/novote cause weird reasons might be because she's scum who wants to slide by without justifying a vote on you and instead going for the obvious reasons to be on happy. It could simply be she views happy as more scum but her reasons for not voting didn't say that (which would have made sense) it said I want to get in on a lynch.

So I agree with you it needs to be explained I'm not attacking you here or on this point.
 

The Gopher

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Okay Urakro. If that's how you feel you should vote for Helvete. We have three hours and 16 minutes before we need a lynch. (at this stage don't anybody dare bring up no lynching it's statistically horrible despite intuitively seeming like a good idea)
 

Helvete

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Well, I dunno.

It'd be great if we had a strong scum read, but there isn't any. There are varying degrees of town reads.

I was going to just wait and see if hado and redbaron could do the same kind of convincing me as they did last game when I was spectating. They pretty-well have.

When I decided to get right down to it and get questioning, I started with you, then zerk, and tried reluctantly, and then Blaurran.

I also wanted to confirm sinny. Just need her to have more fun and get drunk. I'd say her true intentions would be clearer that way.

Nobody's really grilled helvete, or happy. Pmj has been though, I think.

And bronto's the weakest link (for team town). He might just get modkilled, then great, but he also could jump from the shadow-cart, and all of a sudden post one thing before ducking back down into the shadow-cart. Then he'll lurk day 2, do the same, and subsequent days. Could be nice if we all said "ha, bronto is town, or bronto is scum..." Once that's over, he could go back into his shadow cart.

Or he can get modkilled, which would be easier.

Nobody would join a Blaurran lynch, and it looks like my options are limited to those 3 that hado mentioned. I don't mind my options limited because I my hands are up and you all seem all right except for lurkers.

But with limited options, I'd say Helvete. I read happy's posts, and I think I understand where he's coming from the whole time.
So question me about specifics. Just saying I've shown varying degrees of town and that it isn't clear the whole time what about so I'm the best option out of a limited choice is pretty weak. Grill me, don't just vote me because you've given up or can't be bothered.
 

Sinny91

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Irakro, I'm drunk, and I'm grilling Helvete and Happy, in my own drunken way. Proofs? Come on, you of all people, Mr thunder stealer, must have a positive read on me by now.. ?!
 

Urakro

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Thanks Urakro.

I see this as basically a lurker lynch, which I'm not super happy about, but his action/inaction is consistent with what I think a scum happy would look like, so I'm not attempting to overturn it. If he is scum, he has been soft-bussed 100%.

His reads do speak to me a little... Hmm... But I'd expect that if he were scum too. There's nothing decisive there to make me think he was genuinely invested in any thing he said.

Last game he was thinking in the background and while fairly inactive, he wasn't complete fluff. I would expect town happy to be doing something, having more of a poke like he did with his blue role antics last game, even if he doesn't have much time.
If I have to vote happy to get a majority, I have no problem. It would be the most detrimental if we didn't have a lynch day 1. The whole day would have been for nothing.
 

Helvete

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Wait, calm down a sec
An edit post of mine appatently didn't send through.

By 'him', I meant Happy, not you.

You didn't get my vote because prior to lurking you seemed Town to me.

I voted Happy because he's a lurker I've never had a read on and I want to aid in a unknown lurker lynch.

Very drunk. Shit device. Please appreciate.
Ok so this makes a bit more sense. But remember that editing isn't allowed :P
 

Urakro

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Actually, looking at happy's history, he was suspicious of hado right from the start. Whether that was your intention hado to make people suspicious (because mafia isn't suspicious) or not, that's still town points for happy.
 

The Gopher

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Well mafia tries to be suspicious to act like town they are just worse at giving reasons for it since they generally go after town and thus have less real reason to be suspicious.
 

Helvete

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Urak are you talking about "all Hado has offered is a conspicuous silence, indicating that Sinny is either right or wrong."

Taken from a very clear lol post. It didn't mean anything and lead to nothing.
 

Sinny91

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Helvete, 'Sinny' in that context was actually Cheese, AFAIK.
 

Urakro

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Irakro, I'm drunk, and I'm grilling Helvete and Happy, in my own drunken way. Proofs? Come on, you of all people, Mr thunder stealer, must have a positive read on me by now.. ?!
I do now, yes.
 

Urakro

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Urak are you talking about "all Hado has offered is a conspicuous silence, indicating that Sinny is either right or wrong."

Taken from a very clear lol post. It didn't mean anything and lead to nothing.
That's another thing you've done consistently is being on the defensive in that kind of way.
 
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