Female INTPs

[keanne32]

Most profiles I've read [online, at least] on INTPs come from the male perspective, as general consensus has it that women are predominantly more Fe-driven than males. Being one myself, I'd just like to ask input from other female INTPs in this forum about how being INTP affects your lifestyle and whether or not you find it hard to conform to the characteristic traits of our type while still trying to maintain the image of being properly feminine, for lack of a better term.

I, for one, am very open to learning new stuff, especially when it's something I'm passionate about. The thing is, I'm more interested in ideas and theories than application [as is so often pointed out by the INTP profiles I've read] but I find it extremely difficult to express myself because people expect me to be more enthused about stuff that are less abstract. As an added thought, I'm quite insecure when it comes to voicing out something I'm not sure I can fully commit to, for fear of failure or of losing interest, and maybe this...reservation of expression is also due to this fact as much as it is being INTP.

I guess, the main point of this post is to ask whether or not female INTPs think it hard to be both female and INTP, considering the discrepancies between the two in the context of social norms. Though this is generally targeted for the women in this forum, I'd also highly appreciate perspectives from the men. ;] [and forgive me, I know my English is a little weird, it's not my native tongue. ;s]

ETA: Ahh, I'm sorry. I think I put it in the wrong subforum. Would it be okay to ask for a mod to have this transferred to the INTP subforum instead?

 

[stercusaccidit]

I guess, the main point of this post is to ask whether or not female INTPs think it hard to be both female and INTP, considering the discrepancies between the two in the context of social norms.

Sometimes, yeah. I'm not an emotional person, really, and when my emotions do come out, I don't want to share them. And generally, I feel uncomfortable dealing with other people's emotions as well. Don't try to cry on my shoulder... I'll freeze up and wait for you to go away. Or I might tell a joke that you find incredibly insensitive and, after you tell me so, you storm off (the "you" here is not actually YOU, it's any more emotional, "normal" female with whom I might tentatively establish a friendship). And then I'M insensitive, but I don't know why-- it was all logical, it was all true. Even if the truth hurts, it's still the truth. Would lies or faux sympathy be better? I don't understand, and I definitely fail at faux sympathy...

I don't think this is as much of an issue with guys. They generally don't seem to feel the need to cry on each other's shoulders or talk about feelings. Part of being "masculine" is being stoic.

I've also been told that I'm never going to have a successful relationship because of my inability to express my emotions. But when I try to point out some counterexample-- an emotionally awkward, introverted male in a successful relationship-- it is, for whatever reason, not valid. Why not? We're the "nurturers" and "caregivers." We supply the love and tenderness. They supply the protection and security. But I'm not really wired to nurture...

Honestly, it's not that bad. Most of my friends are female, and MOST of them are somewhat similar to me in this respect. But sometimes I really don't understand women. Sometimes I think I understand men more, in some respects. And that's a weird feeling.

 

[Jennywocky]

I usually feel bad or out of place because there is a westernized female image that I don't always fit into. I also have relationships (family and friends) who are ISFJ and it's more exacerbated there -- because of course they do the "traditional woman" thing and I'm... just not.

I have a good Fe sense and am very empathetic... but I also feel much colder than other women. I don't really oogle over babies or puppies, or have little sappy things around my cube at work, or have that same level of reaction that a large number of other women seem to have. I have some of that feeling INTERNALIZED -- I really DO find seals and puppies and babies and kids cute -- but not so much to act on it. I don't think I feel it as overwhelmingly as the generic female.

When someone is upset, I can feel bad for them, but I don't immediately want to show overt support and shower them with huggees (regardless of what emoticons I can use online!)... especially if I have mixed feelings about the situation. My instinct instead is to puzzle through the situation, ask lots of questions, and then give them a bigger picture of what might be going on, so as to help them. And if I think they are partly to blame for what is happening (or worse, I think they've done some really awful or stupid things and their mess is their own fault), I have a very hard time knowing what to do. I nurture, but not quite in the same way as the stereotypical woman; the nurturing I do, I think, is deeper and a bit more strenuous.

I also do not like to smother children, and sometimes I don't feel as attached to my kids as some moms are. On one hand, I feel like the other moms are too dependent on their children and it can annoy me; on the other hand, I wonder what is wrong with me for not feeling what THEY seem to feel. I care deeply for my kids and the other people in my life who I love, and I actually care on some level for everyone I meet (in the extent of wanting to extend goodwill to them, identify with them in some way, even if I'm at odds with them), and am open to anyone who would be open with me... I can't seem to turn that off... but I have that INTP 'autonomy' thing going and I hate to "mommy" someone as a matter of course. I want everyone to be free to be themselves and make their own decisions, and grow from their own mistakes and trials, and even when I feel sympathy for them, I still don't feel like circumventing long-term growth just to help them feel better.

I feel like other women are more attractive to men. I don't feel like I know how to make a man feel special enough to be interested in me, I feel like I'm either too smart or not gushy enough, and I'm certainly not dependent enough perhaps for a guy to feel like I need him. I might want him, and there are guys I've been interested in; but if he's not around, I'm fine without him and can live my life.

So... I don't know. I make it sound far worse than it is. I can usually get along with everyone I meet -- courtesy of Fe and Ne working together -- and I don't really know anyone who dislikes me (unless someone here wants to disprove that... ) but I still feel different and like I stick out because I think so much rather than emoting or doing the Enneagram Two thing all the time for people.

I'm not even sure what I am trying to say, sigh. I just wish I fit in better and found it easier to connect. And I think from the outside, other women probably don't see anything wrong with me; my angst is just internalized because I know I don't really conform to the popularized image.

 

[Ermine]

I suggest you check out the Gender Roles thread, for starters. There's a lot about that in there.

And it's an odd thing being both female and INTP. I don't know if this is linked to my being feminine, or just being a teenager, but my Fe seems to rear its ugly head more often than most INTPs. It doesn't help that I strive for logic and truth, and am constantly hindered by explosions of Fe.

Also, I'm usually painfully out of place since I'm not a stereotypical caregiver. Like Jennywocky, I don't ogle over babies, puppies, etc. Also, it seems like I'm not expected to be smart, as if it simply isn't a feminine trait. This has been a bit of a nuisance in my dealing with guys because they only seem to appreciate me when I help them with their homework. There are many guys who simply can't tolerate a woman that's smarter than them. I'm also not interested in most things women are interested in. I don't like parties. I don't like socializing. I don't like babbling about unimportant crap (aka top 40, makeup, shoes, reality shows).

According to most males and females, I'm an odd, reclusive, boring, stuck up intellectual.

I'm just glad that I'm an INTP instead of an INFP. Though I may be a "freak of nature", I don't care much about what others think, so I am a lot more free to do what I want to do. Many people are "enslaved" by their friends, merely following the crowd.

 

[Chimera]

_________
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I like being a female INTP.
No, strike that, I love it. Despite how hard it gets sometimes, and the once-in-a-blue-moon times I wish I were more ignorant, I do truly enjoy it.
I don't really find myself affected by the gender roles that society has set up. . .I'm not really sure how to describe it. I don't notice how people want me to act as a girl; who's to decide how a girl should act anyway? It seems rather silly to me. I look down on the overly-emotional dripping girls who can't function without someone there holding their hand every second. I don't want to be like them, and I'll refuse to. If guys want to marry one of those types, I'm definitely not the girl for them, and I hope they're happy with whatever drama-case they get.
Anyway. Like Jennywocky, I have a good understanding of my Fe, but more than that, I can generally recognize when situations require that I use it. Sometimes I have to fumble around a bit until I find how I'm supposed to use it (gentle half-truths, getting their mind off of what's bothering them, a hug, etc.), but that's just trial and error. That's not to say I'm always entirely comfortable using it, either. I still find it rather unappealing in most cases. But if someone I care about needs me "there" for them, then I will be. Only someone I care about though. I'm a rock towards the people I don't care anything about. I would hardly talk to them.
My problem is, while I understand and accept that some situations require a certain amount of Fe, generally I just don't care enough to actually use it. It's like. . .my Fe is locked away in a transparent box. I know it's there; I can always see it. But I can't actually open it until someone comes along with the right keys, the right situations. And sometimes it's not even just situations. Animals certainly trigger it. I have an almost maternal instinct towards animals. Certain people trigger it. There's one girl, about a foot and a half shorter than I am, who accesses my Fe without even trying. Every day I see her in the morning at school and we hug. Sometimes she sneaks up on me and practically jumps on my back. Sometimes I sneak up on her, grab her around the waist and swing her around in a circle. (Yeah, besides being non-emotionally-feminine, I'm also stronger than most the guys in my grade too. It's nice.) But the thing is, we're not really really good friends. We're just barely at the "close" level. I don't even really enjoy talking to her all that much.
And then around the three best friends of my life, I have a strict no-touching rule between us. We've never even discussed it before. The thought of us hugging. . .it's disturbing, actually. One of these best friends has attempted to hug me numerous times; every time, I flinch away or stiffen up.
Situations. . .hmm. I'm trying to think of an example. . . Oh. There was one time when one of my best friends (mentioned above) got angry and started crying when I was at her house. I was completely stone. I had no idea what to do, no idea how to calm her down. So I sat. Said a few words. Waited for it to blow over.
And on the flip side, I was at a different friend's house, one I am considerably less close to, and we were watching the fire in the fireplace together. Suddenly she started crying, really softly, and without a second thought I pulled her into a hug and talked to her for close to an hour. After that she fell asleep (I had to move her off of me), and I was stunned. I couldn't understand how or why I had reacted that way, but I had, and it felt completely natural. It was more than natural. It felt nice.
But anyway. I'm not sure exactly what it is about these people, things, situations that bring out my Fe. Maybe I just know when someone actually needs me to be soft towards them and when people can handle my actual nature. I think maybe I'm. . .freer with my Fe than a lot of INTPs. So perhaps I know how and when to use it a little more. I'm starting to grapple with understanding why I have to use it too. . .but those theories are a work in progress.
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[Perseus]

Remember that the gender roles in America and Europe are very different. In England, only the Guardian (SJ) demonstrate anything like chauvinistic gender assignations like Bush's America and only the Horseman (ESFJ) take it seriously. These amount to at least 10% of the population though and cause lots of trouble with their twisted logic. Pony girls are female chauvinists. Avoid like the plague. The Mouse girls (ISFJ) cry and then contaminate you. But who would want to be clean!?

 

[FusionKnight]

I'm also not interested in most things women are interested in. I don't like parties. I don't like socializing. I don't like babbling about unimportant crap (aka top 40, makeup, shoes, reality shows).

My wife is an ISTJ, and she doesn't particularly like any of those things either. In fact, I think the percentage of "barbie-girl stepford-wives" in the overall population is probably very very small.

 

[Jennywocky]

My wife is an ISTJ, and she doesn't particularly like any of those things either. In fact, I think the percentage of "barbie-girl stepford-wives" in the overall population is probably very very small.

I'm not a "barbie" but I actually like shopping for clothes and looking good -- as a means of self-expression, though, rather than trendiness. That's really what it's about there: Revealing who I am through how I look.

But I am not particularly thrilled with playing hostess, or being in vogue, or having the latest things, or being the social hub of the neighborhood. I'd rather roam about, and come and go as I please. And attracting guys? Sometimes it's an egoboost; but sometimes it's unnerving and I'd rather they just ignored me so I didn't have to figure out what to do or how to deflect unwanted attention.

 

[Melkor]

A good defintion of a bitch?


Hahahaha..

I kid...





I guess the female Intp's are the ones going against the system, hiding in corners behind a lab coat and generally getting their heads kicked in by the blondes for being better than them?


I guess I know a few then.

 

[Jennywocky]

A good defintion of a bitch?
Hahahaha..
I kid...

On another forum, the NF gals are complaining about how bad it is to be called a "bitch" by someone. They take it very personally.

The NT gals started talking about it in a different thread, and it's funny that the majority of us (if not all -- I can't remember if there was a lone dissenter) are really not bothered by it, especially if it's just because we're being tough in a discussion.

Any other opinions on that?

 

[Waterstiller]

As a trans woman INTP I have had quite a difficult time since I'm barely 'female'. I was putting on a 'masculine' act before I transitioned, and now I'm feeling so much pressure to put on a 'feminine' act. At this point, I'd say that being a female INTP is a more difficult experience if only because the act is no longer passive. Women are expected to constantly prove themselves; we're never good enough as is, it seems. Not good enough without make-up or if we don't actively demonstrate our intelligence. We're not caring enough if we're not overly expressive. It's fascinating to hear that so many people think of women as 'passive' . Being a woman means always having to fight for something in our society; hardly anything is given. That isn't to say that society doesn't have annoying standards for men, but the standards for women are all encompassing and not recognized. It's difficult for the INTP to do "busy work" in general, and there is just so much more involved for the perceived female..

There's one girl, about a foot and a half shorter than I am, who accesses my Fe without even trying. Every day I see her in the morning at school and we hug. Sometimes she sneaks up on me and practically jumps on my back. Sometimes I sneak up on her, grab her around the waist and swing her around in a circle. (Yeah, besides being non-emotionally-feminine, I'm also stronger than most the guys in my grade too. It's nice.) But the thing is, we're not really really good friends. We're just barely at the "close" level. I don't even really enjoy talking to her all that much.
And then around the three best friends of my life, I have a strict no-touching rule between us. We've never even discussed it before. The thought of us hugging. . .it's disturbing, actually. One of these best friends has attempted to hug me numerous times; every time, I flinch away or stiffen up.

That seems to explain my romantic relationships. For anyone who I connect with on an intellectual level, it's really hard for me to show affection. I chameleon my affection, and so if people aren't touchy feely.. then I'm not. In the past I would go stiff when receiving a hug from someone, but now I let go and just return the hug (if it's warm/gentle). I could never really speak much to my previous partner, but she was the sort of person it was incredibly easy to show affection towards. I no longer have any romantic feelings for her but I am still tempted to hug her and hold her hand.

I'm not a "barbie" but I actually like shopping for clothes and looking good -- as a means of self-expression, though, rather than trendiness. That's really what it's about there: Revealing who I am through how I look.

That's partly why I'm having such a difficult time in life. I tend towards an androgynous appearance and if I don't go out of my way to appear obviously female I get stared at constantly. They always have the weirdest looks on their faces too.. they look completely bewildered.

 

[NoID10ts]

On another forum, the NF gals are complaining about how bad it is to be called a "bitch" by someone. They take it very personally.

The NT gals started talking about it in a different thread, and it's funny that the majority of us (if not all -- I can't remember if there was a lone dissenter) are really not bothered by it, especially if it's just because we're being tough in a discussion.

Any other opinions on that?

<----------This guy is always calling me a bitch and I don't like it one bit.

 

[Jennywocky]

I look down on the overly-emotional dripping girls who can't function without someone there holding their hand every second. I don't want to be like them, and I'll refuse to. If guys want to marry one of those types, I'm definitely not the girl for them, and I hope they're happy with whatever drama-case they get.

uggh.

I agree... although I have to say I'm amused by some guys I've talked to who said "they didn't want another drama case" and I've seen it in their profiles... and after I'd spend a time or two with them, I realized they just didn't want a girl who would make ANY sort of emotional demands on them. (Most of them were ISTJ's or some similar types.)

They just wanted someone who would demand nothing, who would obey according to the rules, and not stretch beyond themselves. Meh to that too.

I figured this out when one of them jokingly called me a "social butterfly" a few times. Yeah. Me. Right. Because I guess I had more than one other person in my life who I could spend time with.

​

And then around the three best friends of my life, I have a strict no-touching rule between us. We've never even discussed it before. The thought of us hugging. . .it's disturbing, actually. One of these best friends has attempted to hug me numerous times; every time, I flinch away or stiffen up.

I have noticed this with the physical. Some girls are very touchy-feely. I'm not. and I'm bugged sometimes by other women who insist of touching me all the time, even if it's just them. It depends on situation and context for me, but usually I feel uncomfortable unless the situation has "unlocked" the physical component. Occasionally I'll touch someone when we're talking, but it's not often.

I couldn't understand how or why I had reacted that way, but I had, and it felt completely natural. It was more than natural. It felt nice.

yes, when it makes sense, it's really a nice warm thing. Otherwise it feels so contrived.

Did anyone see "My Best Friend's Wedding?" I keep smiling imagining George making fun of Kimmie's family when they all show up at the church, by yelling their names and running down to give them big sweeping hugs and stamping his feet excitedly. I don't "get that" very much, it always seems that goofy... which was his point, although they didn't pick up on it.
​

 

[Ermine]

My wife is an ISTJ, and she doesn't particularly like any of those things either. In fact, I think the percentage of "barbie-girl stepford-wives" in the overall population is probably very very small.

I know, but there seems to be a huge majority of people of both genders that babble about stuff I find unimportant all the time.

 

[sagewolf]

Hahah. Female? Just about. There's a boy in my year that does Home Ec. and acts somewhat effeminate, and i joked to a friend recently that he makes me look like a boy; I make him look like a girl. It's actually not that far from the truth.

I feel absolutely no pressure to conform to the gender role of femininity. Plenty of people do that and I couldn't be bothered. That's not to say that I don't enjoy shopping for clothes with other girls now and then, or that I don't act feminine when it suits me to do so: I do. (I go all coo-y over puppies. Anything with fur, actually, I go coo-y over. It's somewhat like this. Intelligence: floored. 'Hello puppy! What are you doing there? You're looking at me. Yes you are. Yes you are!' The dog wisely decides I'm a drooling idiot and avoids me. )

I couldn't understand how or why I had reacted that way, but I had, and it felt completely natural. It was more than natural. It felt nice.

It's kind of odd that it feels natural, actually (though I agree that it does) because all of my friends seem to have different rules for interacting with me. With one set, anything goes, no matter how insane, with another I wind up showing my feminine side more, while one of the boys in my class can get away with touchy things most boys would get the Glare of Death(TM) for. Like the ancient yawning 'trick'. It feels alright with THEM, and only with them. With anyone else it's creepy or uncomfortable.

Annoyingly, this makes it hard to interact with other people, because they don't see why I'm so apparently different around different people.

 

[Anling]

I am fairly sure I don't fit into the expected female role. My sisters are always trying to make me more girly.

The touchy-feely thing is a bit odd with me. If someone hugs me unexpectedly I'll freeze up. But, on the other hand, I used to hug my elementary school teachers at the end of the day. I've come to the conclusion that touch is extremely important to me. So I like it, but only if the person is also very important to me.

I find it somewhat odd that some people use hugging as a form of greeting, even with people they've just met. Usually I delegate the huggy greetings to whoever I'm with. They can hug everyone in the room and I can just say hi or even just nod at them. Sometimes I seem to think that just making eye contact at all is a form of greeting. I have learned from experience that most people expect something more as acknowlegement of their presence.

 

[loveofreason]

I have a lot of trouble thinking of myself as female. I feel like a genderless alien. It's hard enough trying to be human, let alone female.

As for hugs! If someone in my environment is huggy I will do my best to respond without betraying how much it freaks me out, but honestly! What's wrong with respectful distance? Don't invade my world and I won't invade yours.

If I actually feel well-disposed toward someone I'd prefer to bundle up some (for want of a better word) 'psychic' warmth and send that. I show my regard by not imposing myself physically. But I guess that comes across as indifference. Not that I'm not indifferent 99% of the time.

 

[Decaf]

I read this poem a while back and it inspired me in a way. Just thought I'd pass it on.



For every girl who is tired of acting weak when she is strong, there is a boy tired of appearing vulnerable.

For every boy who is burdened with the constant expectation of knowing everything, there is a girl tired of people not trusting her intelligence.

For every girl who is tired of being called over-sensitive, there is a boy who fears to be gentle, to weep.

For every boy whom competition is the only way to prove his masculinity, there is a girl called unfeminine when she competes.

For every girl who throws out her easy bake oven, there is a boy who wishes to find one.

For every boy struggling not to let advertising dictate his desires, there is a girl facing the ad industry's attacks on her self-esteem.

For every girl who takes a step toward her liberation, there is a boy who finds the way to freedom a little easier.

 

[NoID10ts]

I read this poem a while back and it inspired me in a way. Just thought I'd pass it on.



For every girl who is tired of acting weak when she is strong, there is a boy tired of appearing vulnerable.

For every boy who is burdened with the constant expectation of knowing everything, there is a girl tired of people not trusting her intelligence.

For every girl who is tired of being called over-sensitive, there is a boy who fears to be gentle, to weep.

For every boy whom competition is the only way to prove his masculinity, there is a girl called unfeminine when she competes.

For every girl who throws out her easy bake oven, there is a boy who wishes to find one.

For every boy struggling not to let advertising dictate his desires, there is a girl facing the ad industry's attacks on her self-esteem.

For every girl who takes a step toward her liberation, there is a boy who finds the way to freedom a little easier.

I like this. It rings very true to me.

Although, I never wanted an Easy Bake Oven................I'm just saying.

 

[Fleur]

I don`t fall in traditional female role either. I don`t even get the point of trying to fit in - it`ll just deepen these troublesome stereotypes.

I can`t cook anything except crummy omelette. Even if I try to make something else, my cooking skills are so lame that even Easy Bake Oven wouldn`t be able to help me.

I don`t care about how do I look. It wouldn`t be a problem for me to survive with few clothing items. In fact, mostly I wear same clothes for week, when they get dirty (according to my standarts) I change and wear these clothes until the first ones are washed. Only my mother always is complaining about my dressing habits, so, for saint peace, I try to don`t look too sloppy when I`m in school. I rarely comb my hair (last time, when my hair met a comb, was...er...month ago... I think... but it`s looking more or less tolerable).

I hate huggining or letting people to touch me on purpose, but I avoid touching people, so it`s fair to ask it from them too, right?

And I have no interest in things that usually is attached to girls: when I was little, I, unlike good little girls are said to, didn`t want to be a princess - I wanted to be a star-ship captain (or, at least, inter-galactic princess)...

I have only a younger sister, so I sometimes think that in childhood I was implicitly trying to take the conventional roles of both genders (attempting to be both of "perfect" daughter and "perfect" son in one person, but ending up as none of them).

 

[Jennywocky]

And I have no interest in things that usually is attached to girls: when I was little, I, unlike good little girls are said to, didn`t want to be a princess - I wanted to be a star-ship captain (or, at least, inter-galactic princess)...

Yeah, I'm never much one for "playing house" but I'm very much the sort who'd like to climb trees and walk across rocks in a raging stream all while wearing my princess gown and trying not to get TOO wet.

Princess Leia kicks ass.

I like this. It rings very true to me.

I liked it too, although i think the first line was supposed to say "invulnerable" not "vulnerable."

Although, I never wanted an Easy Bake Oven................I'm just saying.

You're among friends, you don't have to pretend anymore.

 

[NoID10ts]

Princess Leia kicks ass.

I liked it too, although i think the first line was supposed to say "invulnerable" not "vulnerable."

I think so to.

You're among friends, you don't have to pretend anymore.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all about baked goods, just not ones cooked with a little lightbulb.

I actually am in the market for an Easy Bake Oven at the moment. My daughters' birthday is in a couple of weeks and she wants one. I will eat baked goods cooked by a lightbulb for her, and her alone.

 

[FusionKnight]

I interviewed at Chef school... does that make me girly?

 

[NoID10ts]

I interviewed at Chef school... does that make me girly?

I love to cook! All men should know how to cook, in my opinion. And I'm from Texas where real men don't wear pink or eat souffle (in fact I could get my ass kicked just for using a word like 'souffle'). But many men in Texas know how to cook, especially if its over an open flame.

 

[FusionKnight]

Yeah, cooking is a blast. I went and interviewed at Le Cordon Bleu a few years ago. Man, if it didn't cost so dang much, it would be an awesome 3 years of school.

 

[Kidege]

I, unlike good little girls are said to, didn`t want to be a princess - I wanted to be a star-ship captain (or, at least, inter-galactic princess)...

I wanted to travel the world in a ship, and I carried a wooden sword everywhere. Dressing dolls was boring, but using them to recreate historical scenes was great.

That said, I think I'd be a great guy. I don't drive very well, but what the heck, I'd compensate with an interest in ancient weapons, or w/e.

Being female has pros and cons. For instance, I went into an artsy field because I liked it, instead of becoming an engineer, which was also a posibility. I believe my brother went into engineering (and failed) partially because it was expected by society. He could have done great in design. Nobody lifts an eyebrow when they see a female in an artsy field. Unfortunately they also think "airhead".

The greatest disadvantage of all is sexual harassment. Yes, I know men get harassed. But I and plenty of strong, smart women I've met get systematically harassed as a way of "putting them in their place".

*sigh* And there's also the issues with men who, being a little over the average in terms of brains, think they HAVE to be smarter than me (come on, it's a girl!) AND that I should swoon at the sight of them. So they begin with 1)flattery and condescension, 2)direct competition, 3)frustration when they see they can't win, 4)overt hostility and even violence. Of course, knowing the pattern, I avoid them like the plague.

 

[FusionKnight]

I think there's something about general masculinity that wants to be "needed" for something, which is why so many guys have to be the "expert" around the women that are important to them. It get's twisted into a horrible sexist thing sometimes, but I think the basic drive is to be "useful" and "needed". Of course, as always, this is a generalization, and isn't meant to apply to all men or no women...

 

[Jennywocky]

I think there's something about general masculinity that wants to be "needed" for something, which is why so many guys have to be the "expert" around the women that are important to them. It get's twisted into a horrible sexist thing sometimes, but I think the basic drive is to be "useful" and "needed". Of course, as always, this is a generalization, and isn't meant to apply to all men or no women...

Or be the "specialist" and "know how to do things."

Partly with needing to be needed... but you could say the same thing about women and yet it looks far different when they express that need.

Women might share problems more as a connection point and get strength from being listened to and sharing herself with others; men seem to look at problem sharing as an attempt to resolve the issue.

Generally. Men and women do fall on the other side of the line, I think T women probably do veer a little more towards "problem solving."

 

[EloquentBohemian]

I found cooking ridiculously easy.
I just follow these three simple rules:

1. Pick up phone.
2. Dial number on speed-dial for Swiss Chalet or Boston Pizza or...
3. Wait for delivery person.

See! No Problem.

 

[Ermine]

Just curious, are there any female INTPs here who are content to fill some traditionally female roles such as cooking and dressing up nice on occasion, etc. and simply try to omit other female expectations without looking "inadequate"?

 

[eudemonia]

Yes, I do. You'll probably take this all wrong but Ill say it anyway. Its funny really, when I was young, I was soooo unaware of my body. And I was really attractive. Although I knew I was OK-looking I never fully took advantage of it - I never realised the power and the fun it could yield. Now I look back and feel - God I really wasted my sexuality and the power that emanated from that. But you are where you are; and I was a 'head' person. to me I couldn't really see the point of any part of my body apart from the head. Whenever anyone 'came onto me' I was always surprised, embarrassed and hopeless.

Now I am that much older I think - what an idiot, I could have had such a fun time. Now I love dressing up - although I always did this it was more for me and my boyfriend (now husband). Now I do it and I enjoy the effect it has. Now, I love getting dressed up, going to balls, and luxuriating in my femininity. but it has taken a while to get to this point.

I also love to cook. I like to cook favourite dishes for my family and I like to cook for dinner parties - even though i am not very good, am totally scatty and always facilitate some disaster or other. I just like doing it as it is probably the only creative thing I do.

But what I also love is the ability to move from female female to male female and take on all comers in a fight to the death. I love the surprise and confusion (and sometimes fascination) it causes. I just love playing all parts really. I love being a challenging, confrontative and intelligent woman.

 

[Ermine]

Wow. You make an INTP sound like all a man could ask for! I've only begun to appreciate myself, and I'm coming up on unexplored territory, at least for me. It's quite unnerving and exciting at the same time.

 

[Anling]

Just curious, are there any female INTPs here who are content to fill some traditionally female roles such as cooking and dressing up nice on occasion, etc. and simply try to omit other female expectations without looking "inadequate"?

I love to cook. It's fun. In college my roomates and I would cook together all the time. We had a really great homemade chinese food night. Jiao zi is my favorite, so far at least. I don't cook as much since I'm at home though. Dad only wants to eat things that he has been eating for the last thirty years. Experiment and he'll be insulting and complain and refuse to eat it. (Those were dang good stuffed pork chops we made!)

I'll dress up, that also is fun. But it takes a lot to make me put make up on. I just don't like the feel of it on my skin. However every now and then I will wear it. Most of the time though, I must admit, I love to wear large flannel shirts. Plaid ones.

 

[eudemonia]

Wow. You make an INTP sound like all a man could ask for! I've only begun to appreciate myself, and I'm coming up on unexplored territory, at least for me. It's quite unnerving and exciting at the same time.

What an exciting time in your life Fernando. I'm quite envious! Enjoy every single minute of it

I think its important for us to define our own versions of femininity. We no longer need to be constrained by other people's definitions. There is something very alluring and powerful about an intelligent woman. When you think of great literature, the female characters are often strong, intelligent and in control and today there are many successful, attractive and powerful women to serve as role models.

For me, once I had defined my own version of femininity, I learned a lot from other women and how they expressed theirs - perhaps in more conventional ways. I learned that it could be fun 'going out with the girls' and also picked up certain mannerisms and figures of speech that would never have occurred to me before. So its all ongoing construction really. All I would say is enjoy defining the femininity of your youth. Don't be distracted by how other people are defining their femininity; they are probably just as hung up about it all as we are.

 

[Perseus]

One INTP Woman's view of what it means to be INTP
http://tinyurl.com/6c4zl6

I think I have met a female INTP. I am trying to get to talk to her, but she is behaving like Caprice. She is probably a ENFP Ferret under stress.

The kitchen is full of Horsemen and Ponies (ESFJ), although I met a INFJ (Skylark) on kitchen duty and barmaid last night.

 

[FusionKnight]

Context! Gah! Does he do it just to warp our minds??

 

[NoID10ts]

Context! Gah! Does he do it just to warp our minds??

I think Perseus is another evil genius (not of the super evil genius caliber of Jesin, of course), but a genius just the same. We are just rats in a maze to him. He makes these cryptic posts as a sort of social experiment. There is deep, profound meaning within them all, but we are to dumb to understand, you see. He observes our responses and somehow uses this data to plot out his world domination scheme. I don't understand it all yet and perhaps I never will. Until the chains are around my neck, that is. He is the only one amoung us that has his own entire section (the Dragon's Lair) so he must not be taken lightly!

Think about it. You'll see that I am right!

Maybe?

Now where is that INTP (Rat) cheese?

 

[Jennywocky]

Context! Gah! Does he do it just to warp our minds??

Knowing our minds, fat chance of that -- if anything, it'll straighten them.

 

[FusionKnight]

He is the only one amoung us that has his own entire section (the Dragon's Lair) so he must not be taken lightly!

I must confess I'm not up on the latest INTP Forum lore, but you must be right. It can't be as random and absurd as it seems; I'm beginning to get shadowy images of Perseus Pendragon contriving a plot in which we're all merely players...

 

[Kidege]

Context! Gah! Does he do it just to warp our minds??

Yup. He enjoys watching us squirm.

On topic:

I cook, but I don't do it very often. And I clean sometimes, but I think of myself as a surface technician when I do it.

As for enjoying your feminity... um, I rarely dress up. I prefer not to attract attention that way. I enjoy the fact that, wearing jeans and a t-shirt, I can attract attention if I want it just with the way I move or a thing I say.

Wow. You make an INTP sound like all a man could ask for!

If only more -good- men noticed that

 

[Agent Intellect]

If only more -good- men noticed that

damn, that leaves me out.

 

[grey matters]

Ooh!! another thread about INTP and femininity! Should I rant and rave about shoes and impractical clothing or just ridicule gender expectations? What to choose, what to choose. It is all so Tantalizing!

Well actually how about I pass over this temptation and tell you about a new way I have found to piss people off in regards to the adherence to gender roles.
Now, "why?" you say, "why G.M., would you want to intentionally piss people off when INTP's do this so naturally?"
I say "because it's fun!"

Anyway here's the story. I went to a cub scout pack camp out last weekend. the person who shared the campsite with us was one of those whiney guys who also happened to be somewhat overprotective and overly nurturing to his child (who, by the way, was at the age when children like to be more independent, but daddy was too busy over parenting to notice). whiney people irritate the piss out of me, whiney guys doubly so. One time they are trying to be Macho and the next they are complaining that their feet are wet. Meanwhile I have 5 more things to complain about and my feet are wet also but I don't say anything about it because whining is a useless and unproductive response to the situation at hand.

Anyway I used to not say anything about it when a guy got whiney, I would just stew in my irritation and try to get away from him at the nearest oppertunity. This time I decided to unnerve him by being what (steriotypically) he should have been. People atribute stoicisim and fostering independance (what some people call "toughining up" but I don't see it that way) to masculinity, and here I was, a woman being more "masculine" then he was! It was funny.

First he apperared to be spurned because I would not acnowledge his whiney complaints (yes, me the woman, not "feeling his pain"; the response he was accustomed to eliciting from women through his complaining).

Next was the pure enjoyment of watching him squirm as I was being more steriotypically masculine than him.

By the end of it all (day 3) the poor man was just confused as he looked to my husband and some of the other men in our camping group for some sort of validation that my "masculine" behavior was out of place for a woman (little did he know that the other men in our group had known me for a couple of years and were used to me,and my husband likes my so called "masculine" behavior. In fact I told my husband what I was doing and he said that he noticed and thought it was pretty funny)

Some people may think I was too cruel. I say it was a learning experience for him. At least if you are giong to complain you should be witty about it or find an apropriate way to bitch about it (isn't that why we have shout club?) Whining about something is appropriate in short bursts (for the purpose of "getting the whine out so to speak) but then it becomes counterproductive. If your feet are wet the appropriate response it to go to the fire and start the procedure of foot and boot drying. If this can't be done immediatly you get done what must be done and then dry your feet. It's simple. Oh well, I suppose I should shut up before someone accuses me of whining. The ranting and raving are over now.

 

[Kidege]

I'm very disappointed. That post should have included video.

 

[sagewolf]

*Falls over in cruel, completely unsympathetic laughter*

He deserved it. Whiny people are just annoying in general, not just whiny guys. I love screwing with people's minds too...

 

[grey matters]

screwing with people's minds, YEAH!......oh wait maybe this belongs in the "Happy Club".

 

[Anling]

Screwing with people's minds is one of the great joys in life.

 

[Oblivious]

So this woman thing... it really exists?

 

[jamez345]

It is a completly wrong stereotype to say that women are the "caregivers" and stuff like that and the same with saying men should be more "masculine". There should be no "Social Norm" because that only screw's up peoples lives (Like some of ours...) People should be who they are instead of pretending to be someone who they are not so they will be "normal". This "normal" stuff should stop. Its just ticking me off.

EDIT: I love pissing people off - i think its funny lol i mean messing with someones mind its so fun!

 

[grey matters]

Yes, right here right now I call for an end to "normalicy", who's with me?

 

[EloquentBohemian]

But...
If we put an end to normalcy,
then abnormalcy would become normalcy.
So, then INTP's would have to find a way to be abnormal
and then we would be ostracised again
and subject ourselves to faking normalcy,
which would make us bitter and solitary once more,
from which we would rise up and abolish normalcy,
making abnormal, normal...
O, the forever search for Acceptance of the Who-We-Is,
the Holy Grail of INTP's,
rumoured to be kept in a castle somewhere on the French outback
protected by Frenchmens who rail insults at our INTP Ki-ni-gits
and who fart in our general direction
and who tell us to go away or they shall taunt us a second time.
Shall we ever find solace and peace?
Shall others ever see us as the demiurges we truly are?
Shall Acceptance forever elude our feeble grasp?
O, Woe!

O, Woe!




O, Woe!




*sniffle*