Fear of being stupid

[xclassicxvx]

Going through the forum I have seen some threads on fear of not being smart enough to do this or that. I have not seen anything about fear of being stupid.

I have had this fear for over two years now and it grows larger and eats away at me daily. When I surround myself with people and discuss certain things I start to feel intelligent. The thing is, after I look back at my interactions with people I begin to pick all the fallacies in what I said and start to lose self confidence. I begin to become increasingly troubled when I don't have anyone to discuss my ideas with, this begins a time of stagnation where I lose all motivation for learning.

The worst for me in all of this is my extremely harsh self criticism of everything that I do:

- I don't read fast enough
-Do math well enough
-know enough
-etc...

Is this a commonality some INTP's share?

 

[Black Rose]

Above average is not stupid.
Everyone is above average in something.

The best thing to do is to find what your good at and forget that other people are better at it than you. Its all retaliative in comparison.

 

[Rook]

My situation is strikingly similar to yours. For quite a while now I have been surrounded by people who do not function on the same rational level as I do. I am thus inable to find intellectual socialization, except on very rare oppurtunities. For a while now this lack of external motivation has taken my procrastination to new heights.
In my state of stagnation, I have been hounded with a feeling that "perhaps I am not as smart as I think I am", where inferioty festers dreadfully within my mind.
I have found the problem, though. With my extreme levels of procrastination, I have stopped doing anything challenging for an extended peroid of time, not even things that interest me a lot (Maths, physics etc.)

So perhaps we feel inferior or stupid when we do not challenge our minds to a sufficient degree.
Animekitty has a point, find something challenging that you like, and suddenly you will move from success to success, strengthening your mind and removing the inferred intellectual inferiority.

*(Welcome to the forum)

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

I am a dunce and am proud of it!

 

[xclassicxvx]

So perhaps we feel inferior or stupid when we do not challenge our minds to a sufficient degree.
Animekitty has a point, find something challenging that you like, and suddenly you will move from succes to succes, strengthening your mind and removing the inferred intellectual inferiority.

I absolutely agree and have come to nearly the same conclusion, but as I start to learn and test my mind I have no one to discuss it with. It then turns into a vicious cycle of learning, isolation, stagnation, learning and so on...

 

[Black Rose]

I absolutely agree and have come to nearly the same conclusion, but as I start to learn and test my mind I have no one to discuss it with. It then turns into a vicious cycle of learning, isolation, stagnation, learning and so on...

School is a good place to meet people. Universities have many discussion groups.

What has caught your interests lately?

 

[Rook]

I absolutely agree and have come to nearly the same conclusion, but as I start to learn and test my mind I have no one to discuss it with. It then turns into a vicious cycle of learning, isolation, stagnation, learning and so on...

I believe that this problem is solved by one's proximity to others that share your interests and mindset. I think that universities are one's best bet, where you study with people who share your passions. I am currently a high school student, and I find that there are very few rational-minded individuals in this setting. One's occupation greatly influences the people you can interact with. Perhaps you should look for a change in scenery?

 

[just george]

Your problem is not fear, intelligence, or stupidity. It is vanity, and ego.

Everybody is different. Some people are brilliant spatially, but crap at arithmetic. Others are excellent at reasoning, but can't spell to save their lives. Some people are lucky to function at a high level at many things, but even so, there is someone on the planet as good at those things, or more, than they are, at some point in time.

Added to the mix is that intelligence changes over time. People seem to function poorly when they're younger, peak somewhere in their late 20s to early 40s, and decline from there. So even if you happen to be super capable right now, chances are, when you're 75, you're going to forget where you put your walking stick.

What you're doing is the gray matter equivalent of a teenage girl worrying that she is or isn't beautiful enough, and looking for validation through external competition/comparison with others.

Imo, since you can't change your native intelligence, you would do best to first of all accept it, and secondarily, use what you have, to do what you can, in order to do something of worth (to you), while having some fun while you do it. In not too long, you're either in "where are my false teeth I swear they were just here" territory, or you and your magnificent brains will be in a box unable to solve the problem, even, of worms.

Sportsmen understand this very well, which is why boxers or other martial artists use a phrase similar to "on the day" when they fight. You never hear high end martial artist commentators say "so and so bashed the hell out of that guy" - they always say something like "so and so got the best of that guy on the day" because that is a more accurate representation of what really happened.

The irony of this post is that, from a certain point of view, it just proved that really stupid boxers who have been hit in the head lots of times and can't string a sentence together are actually smarter than you in this matter

Who knows - maybe boxers became boxers because they found quantum physics too easy and wanted a challenge

 

[xclassicxvx]

I appreciate all of the advice, but I was looking more for a discussion on the commonality of this mindset in INTP's. I fully understand that this mentality is not only irrational but extremely self destructive. I have put much thought into this issue and know the causes and the effects of me having such an attitude, but it is not easy to just up and adopt a more reasonable mind set. I was simply looking for a discussion on this subject and whether or not this is a common issue with INTP's given some of the threads I have seen concerning depression, extreme self criticism and the like. I really do appreciate the meticulous picking at the things I have said and the problems I presented, makes me feel at home.

 

[just george]

Soooo...you just wanted to know how many other vainglorious cerebral INTP primadonnas with the emotional intelligence of a teenage girl were out there?

 

[Grayman]

Soooo...you just wanted to know how many other vainglorious cerebral INTP primadonnas with the emotional intelligence of a teenage girl were out there?

That is not funny or helpful, go put your name in the INTP hall of shame.

 

[Rook]

The OP is clearly set in a rational manner, this excessive criticism is taking things out of context. Simply put, classic asks other intp's if they also experience mental stagnation due to isolation, wich is not an emotional defficieny, but a justifiable response to the inability to share one's ideas. Let's discuss the subject at hand, or criticize it in a civil manner if need must be.

 

[Grayman]

...

I used to be that way but not anymore.

Then opposite occurs for me now if I am not careful. When constantly listening to simple non-intelligent conversation I tend to think I am getting smarter when in fact the atrophy on my brain is making me dumber.

 

[just george]

That is not funny or helpful, go put your name in the INTP hall of shame.

I'm not an INTP.

Has it crossed your mind that continuing the behaviorial pattern that is being discussed, already understood as being self destructive, is not going to lead to a good outcome?

"are any of you worried that you aren't smart enough?"
"yeah I wrote a thesis on that and got a high distinction"
"that's great, it's a high score!"
"yeah, but even though I got a high distinction, I'm still worried that I'm not smart enough...what do you think?"
"I feel like that all the time. I understand everything, but I wonder if God is smarter than me"
"You're right. If we can't be God, then what's the point of being alive?"
"Gee I feel like crap now. If we aren't gods, and can never be gods, then we must resign ourselves to being inferior"
"But I don't like being inferior to anything, I'm depressed"
"Me too. I'm rich, and famous, and have a gorgeous girlfriend...but I'm not as good as God, so I'm shit"
"I have an idea...let's kill God!"
"I thought of that, but even if we do, we wont be as superior as he once was, so we're still shit"
"but there are still lots of fun things to do, lets have fun, eat a pizza, and live our lives!"
"no no, it just...isn't satisfying. The thought that smarter people exist has totally ruined my life"

There is no fun or productive end to this discussion, apart from finding lots of other vainglorious people and finding an illogical sense of comfort in that.

"Gee, I feel so much better now that I belong to a group of silly smart people".

 

[just george]

The OP is clearly set in a rational manner, this excessive criticism is taking things out of context. Simply put, classic asks other intp's if they also experience mental stagnation due to isolation, wich is not an emotional defficieny, but a justifiable response to the inability to share one's ideas. Let's discuss the subject at hand, or criticize it in a civil manner if need must be.

It's lonely at the top.

 

[Trivial]

I have this exact same problem. I believe what Rook said is an extremely accurate description of my own "symptoms". I started school a year early and I can grasp concepts quickly. Combining that with the positive reinforcement my parents gave throughout my early years, I developed a superiority complex. However, this arrogance led to the development of extreme laziness. I no longer saw the point in doing ANYTHING. I wouldn't practice sports, I wouldn't try at school. Because no matter how little I would try, I would still be above average (to an extent).

The problem was I could only surpass those who were at the same level as me, so once everything turned into "more practice = better results", my superiority complex became an inferiority complex. I was used to always being the smart one, always being good. As my poor habits consumed me, I lost all of my self-confidence. My parents would berate me for how I handled my schoolwork. Subsequently, I was my harshest critic. If I couldn't be the best, then it wasn't good enough. Problem is, as an INTP, the knowledge of something was just as satisfying as actually doing. So I would constantly feel as if I could do something, but without it actually being done, there was an inherent doubt roaming around my mind.

A quick side-note, I label everybody based on their intelligence. I have trouble respecting people I don't believe are capable of advanced logic/reasoning. This could be a huge cause of why I always feel stupid. Since I'm constantly judging everybody else, it seems only natural that my mind would assume other's are doing exactly the same. And to extend on your point of it being irrational and destructive but you can't adapt a new mindset - I absolutely love that line. I've been realizing countless amounts of irrational things I've been constantly doing and trying to determine what is purely "optimal" (as if we were inspecting it in a vacuum). The problem is, we're only human. We can't just change. Even if it seems irrational to not change, it's not that simple.

In terms of solving it, I'm still at a standstill. I've tried accepting that I'm of a different mind-set and can't expect other's to share this; however, until I get any solid results on an IQ test, I'm still unsure if I'm actually smarter or just perceive myself as such. The other option is of course believing we're all equals, but the prevalence of logical fallacies and subjectivity is beyond deafening. I think the best solution is just validate yourself. But eh, you were just looking for commonality. So in conclusion, yes, I believe I experience this often.

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

It's lonely at the top.

silly just george...don't you know these days one is supposed to feign loser-dom in the name of equality (i.e. you are not 'cool' if you don't pretend to be a self loathing male and/or practice self deprecation to the point of self worthlessness)



Don't worry, though...there are a few of us still left with our balls attached. And we'll not be giving them up anytime soon.

 

[just george]

silly just george...don't you know these days one is supposed to feign loser-dom in the name of equality (i.e. you are not 'cool' if you don't pretend to be a self loathing male and/or practice self deprecation to the point of self worthlessness)



Don't worry, though...there are a few of us still left with our balls attached. And we'll not be giving them up anytime soon.

This might be hard to believe, but I once doubted myself, and thought I was wrong. But I was mistaken

 

[r4ch3l]

I carried around that fear as anxiety and it ended up slowing me way down and making me stupider by not even allowing myself to attempt various things. just george is right; it's ego. I've found that if I used my anxiety as an indicator of what I SHOULD be doing (instead of being lazy or intimidated) and carry it with me my life gets better, and I learn more things. Don't be afraid of being stupid. Stupid moves, and stupid gets shit done. Be afraid of being afraid of being stupid.

What you're doing is the gray matter equivalent of a teenage girl worrying that she is or isn't beautiful enough, and looking for validation through external competition/comparison with others.

Imo, since you can't change your native intelligence, you would do best to first of all accept it, and secondarily, use what you have, to do what you can, in order to do something of worth (to you), while having some fun while you do it. In not too long, you're either in "where are my false teeth I swear they were just here" territory, or you and your magnificent brains will be in a box unable to solve the problem, even, of worms.

wisdom.

 

[r4ch3l]

I appreciate all of the advice, but I was looking more for a discussion on the commonality of this mindset in INTP's. I fully understand that this mentality is not only irrational but extremely self destructive. I have put much thought into this issue and know the causes and the effects of me having such an attitude, but it is not easy to just up and adopt a more reasonable mind set. I was simply looking for a discussion on this subject and whether or not this is a common issue with INTP's given some of the threads I have seen concerning depression, extreme self criticism and the like. I really do appreciate the meticulous picking at the things I have said and the problems I presented, makes me feel at home.

I have struggled with all those things and I understand where you are coming from. It is very, very difficult to change. This is where you have to realize that it's actually NOT a logical problem to solve, it's an emotional one.

Chase after your own curiosity because you enjoy the process and don't be afraid how you measure up on paper.

I begin to become increasingly troubled when I don't have anyone to discuss my ideas with, this begins a time of stagnation where I lose all motivation for learning.

It sounds as if you may be so emotionally attached to the IDEA of being intelligent that it's tampered with your ability to enjoy ideas for themselves?

 

[Grayman]

I have struggled with all those things and I understand where you are coming from. It is very, very difficult to change. This is where you have to realize that it's actually NOT a logical problem to solve, it's an emotional one.

Chase after your own curiosity because you enjoy the process and don't be afraid how you measure up on paper.



It sounds as if you may be so emotionally attached to the IDEA of being intelligent that it's tampered with your ability to enjoy ideas for themselves?

I agree with all this. I derive much happiness from life by just pesuing my curiosity.

 

[BigApplePi]

Is feeling stupid a social comparative thing?

If one is a carpenter among carpenters and lacks some carpentry skill one might feel stupid. If one's favorite thing is thinking or things of the mind and lacks some skill, they might feel stupid when put to the test.

But still. One can start out ignorant of something. This could be accepted. By acquiring the skill they can beat the thing.

I was reading "Prime Obsession", a math book about the unsolved Riemann Hypothesis. After a while I wasn't following what was being said. I admit I have limitations. So the task is to identify the how and why I fall short. Once doing that, I accept it and can look for a workaround.

 

[just george]

Is feeling stupid a social comparative thing?

If one is a carpenter among carpenters and lacks some carpentry skill one might feel stupid. If one's favorite thing is thinking or things of the mind and lacks some skill, they might feel stupid when put to the test.

But still. One can start out ignorant of something. This could be accepted. By acquiring the skill they can beat the thing.

I was reading "Prime Obsession", a math book about the unsolved Riemann Hypothesis. After a while I wasn't following what was being said. I admit I have limitations. So the task is to identify the how and why I fall short. Once doing that, I accept it and can look for a workaround.

People who are not confident in their own convictions tend to use others as a sounding board to judge their own sanity. Similarly, they use the accomplishments of others, or statements of fact made by others, as yardsticks for their own self perceived capacity, meaning that the self judges itself comparatively.

This is okay for people who are in the middle of the bell curve, because everything that they perceive is common.

When you're ahead of the curve, and come up with ideas that challenge accepted facts, it can become a problem, because not only must you prove that what you are saying is true, but you must convince a mass of people who have taken the accepted people on board, and in doing so, have built an identity around those facts.

In that case, it is inevitable that you will meet a lot of resistance, either through the cognitive dissonance of those without the cerebral capacity and humility to examine your ideas, but also reexamine their own, or the outright defending of social status by the presently perceived thought leaders/intellectuals.

Therefore, if you are unlucky enough to be exceptional, you had better grow an exceptionally thick skin and set of balls that drags 6 feet behind you that are so massive that they leave twin furrows in concrete floors, because everybody who is anybody, one way or another, is going to try and cut you down to size out of simple self preservation.

I have personally found the mantra "everyone is lost except me" fairly handy, because the odd thing about being able to perceive things that other cannot is that if those people do not have the ability to come up with the idea by themselves, then their criticisms should be immediately dismissed on the grounds that they are unqualified. When you're the trailblazer, the only opinion that counts is your own - so try to have a little more faith in your own convictions.

Oh and write everything down including all insults, so that 5 years later, when people finally accept that what you have been saying all along is correct, you can say "told you so, clown".

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

People who are not confident in their own convictions tend to use others as a sounding board to judge their own sanity. Similarly, they use the accomplishments of others, or statements of fact made by others, as yardsticks for their own self perceived capacity, meaning that the self judges itself comparatively.

This is okay for people who are in the middle of the bell curve, because everything that they perceive is common.

When you're ahead of the curve, and come up with ideas that challenge accepted facts, it can become a problem, because not only must you prove that what you are saying is true, but you must convince a mass of people who have taken the accepted people on board, and in doing so, have built an identity around those facts.

In that case, it is inevitable that you will meet a lot of resistance, either through the cognitive dissonance of those without the cerebral capacity and humility to examine your ideas, but also reexamine their own, or the outright defending of social status by the presently perceived thought leaders/intellectuals.

...

I have personally found the mantra "everyone is lost except me" fairly handy, because the odd thing about being able to perceive things that other cannot is that if those people do not have the ability to come up with the idea by themselves, then their criticisms should be immediately dismissed on the grounds that they are unqualified. When you're the trailblazer, the only opinion that counts is your own - so try to have a little more faith in your own convictions.

Oh and write everything down including all insults, so that 5 years later, when people finally accept that what you have been saying all along is correct, you can say "told you so, clown".

Too right. Too right. Truer/ wiser words may never have been spoken prior to this passage.

Therefore, if you are unlucky enough to be exceptional, you had better grow an exceptionally thick skin and set of balls that drags 6 feet behind you that are so massive that they leave twin furrows in concrete floors, because everybody who is anybody, one way or another, is going to try and cut you down to size out of simple self preservation.

Oh how I wish this board had a rep function!

 

[Minuend]

*Tries to get in thread but can't due to the space and time breaking enormously unicorn that is george's and greg's self perceived grandness*

 

[TimeAsylums]

Going through the forum I have seen some threads on fear of not being smart enough to do this or that. I have not seen anything about fear of being stupid.

I have had this fear for over two years now and it grows larger and eats away at me daily. When I surround myself with people and discuss certain things I start to feel intelligent. The thing is, after I look back at my interactions with people I begin to pick all the fallacies in what I said and start to lose self confidence. I begin to become increasingly troubled when I don't have anyone to discuss my ideas with, this begins a time of stagnation where I lose all motivation for learning.

The worst for me in all of this is my extremely harsh self criticism of everything that I do:

- I don't read fast enough
-Do math well enough
-know enough
-etc...

Is this a commonality some INTP's share?

Commonality here. (ENTP tho). It's not that I love being right, I just hate being wrong

But really, even if doing "above average" (horrible statement), I am the harshest critic of my self. When I make a single error, I tear my self apart. I tell everyone how easy something is no matter how hard it is or how long it takes. And it isn't everyone else's opinions of me or eyes on me that matter the most, it is my own. Sometimes I forget that I know anything at all and I fear I'm stupid, below average, and going nowhere. It becomes a loop of despair. The only way to prevent it is to simply acknowledge that I do know something, and just be chill.

But of course you know...

Diamonds form under pressure..etc...

Now for some typology related functions explanations:


Ti is merely concerned with what it knows to itself, can it logically be explained
Ne will run rampant, dragging you and pulling you in every direction, you can't get a breath
Si will hold you down, it will let you recall that you do know something, that you are something. The very antithesis of Ne. Ne the unstoppable force, but Si the immovable object.

So for da INTPs: Ti'd first: "Ah yes, I have fully analyzed it." Ne'd 2nd: throw in some extra relevant details and make this even BIGGER! ...or not and run off in twenty different directions. So with some tert Si you can begin to feel like a person again, S(ensing) and its concrete self.

ENTPs worse inferior Si >_<

But, yes, like the diamonds under pressure - although it doesn't exactly feel like you know a lot, and you get this fear, you are constantly revisiting your thoughts to attempt to make sure they are perfect.

Pros and Cons.

self perceived grandness

Spoiler

Make that order for two huge ego's pl0x.

 

[Latte]

I'm probably not INTP, but i will butt in regarding an aspect of the discussed phenomena.

I like BAP's input and train of thought.

At the risk of fuelling your want to feel intelligent, percieving a lot of your failures and limitations puts you ahead of most "Mensa area'ish" people in regards to perceptiveness and ability to improve your own cognitive foundations. To take a directly conscious part in shaping your own mental development.

As BAP said, metacognitive ability is a great tool to use in order to find out how to use the tools one has.
One can even modify them.

You might eventually also find yourself increasingly figuring out how to utilize this self-scrutinizing ability to understand how to use the emotional tools available to you so that you can build a more stable and content sense of self without sacrificing your ability to percieve limitations and flaws in your own thinking.

A trick I used to use was to alter my mindstate in the way necessary to start to focus not on the failures of the inconsistency or incompleteness of my previous utterings or thoughts, but to focus on that percieving them now made my thoughts more solid and better. To not focus on the idea of the past as a painting that in hindsight was ugly, but at my mind as a painting in progress that is becoming progressively more fleshed out, strong and reliable.

Illustrating (there are probably other ways to look at it too):

¤1

Past Thoughts : Thoughts after having recognized mistake = less than 1

Suboptimal, lacking. I failed? I failed the test. I failed. I did bad. I am shit. I want to die.

¤2

New thoughts : Past Thoughts = more than 1

Improvement, increase. Recognizing past mistake gives a good feeling. I have improved. Yay me.



~~~~


The school system's test system encourages people to adopt a type 1 system of feeling. It doesn't matter if you improved, what matters is that you failed and you can never take that failure back and you are bad. Others didn't fail then and so you are a failure compared to them. Things not being about self-cultivation, but about every "performance" being stellar.

It's a constant lamenting about the past self not being as good as the present self. Instead of running back to those friends and enthusiastically being like "hey, I just realized this is a more correct view than the one I previously shared and here's why", one will almost not want to talk with them about it because one is ashamed. Rather than fuelling the joy interpersonal relationships, it drains it.

It can also be transferred to comparing the imperfect now against an imagined perfect/better possible future self, yielding again a less-than-1 number. Flip it on its head you get a more than 1 number and a good feeling, even though its the same thought, mathematically.


@Trivial I'm not sure if this is useful for your or not, as we are not the same person, but getting results on proper fluid intelligence tests did not lay anything to rest for me. It shifted some of the focus/stress in the internal struggle into whether I could harness my potential or not and if my will was strong enough. I am probably Ni dom at the moment, though. So percieved strength of will might have more likelihood to be central to my identity than it would be for you by default.

Lastly,

 

[Hadoblado]

I see it as just playing on a higher difficulty. Like all those old hardcore gamers who complete Ocarina of Time without picking up any life hearts, I gotta get through life without a functional memory or top-nothc processing speed. Humans are adaptable, isn't it interesting just how much one can achieve with so little?

 

[Lot]

I used to be scared of being stupid. Then I learned that I was stupid compared to other people. I was surrounded by highly accomplished people. People that managed to do big things early in life. The frustrating part was knowing that I can't do what they did. I don't have it in me to be like them.

I am smarter, more clever, thoughtful, than most people. Even some of these more accomplished people. I had to accept that I'm a late bloomer. And in all reality. Most people don't really start their purpose till they get into their 40's. I'm not a super genius. So I'll have to wait till I'm more developed in my skills to do anything worth while.

At this point I've given up on being the smartest and knowing everything. I'm going to study what I like, and learn what I want to learn. People still keep trying to push me in all sorts of directions. My parents telling me I'm wasting my intelligence delivering pizza. I know an older guy that wants me to take a leadership role in his bible study, because, "You're mature and intelligent, and these young guys need your guidance." Lol If he only knew that I was on a quest to have sex.

You can't let "failings" get to you. I say stupid shit all the time. Some times I can't even get the words out of my mouth, that I've studied years for, during an argument. People that I know for a fact don't know what they are talking about appear smarter than me, just because I can't find the words and my mind gets clouded. Debate is not my talent. So what, you used fallacious logic, or poor grammar. Don't do it next time. And if do it again, try not to the time after that.

Finding like minded friends would be helpful. This forum could be a good place to find people to discus with. Universities, like other have suggested. Hell, community college is a good place.

TL;DR No, you aren't the only one that fears being stupid. When you become comfortable with who you are, it doesn't matter if you are stupid or not. You can be happy simply existing as who you are.

 

[paradoxparadigm7]

Soooo...you just wanted to know how many other vainglorious cerebral INTP primadonnas with the emotional intelligence of a teenage girl were out there?

You have a point...but the result is defensiveness. If you want to make a point, you may want to re-think put-downs and sarcasm. It may feel good to vent your irritation but you'll eventually be on the defensive as others attack you all the while your good point gets lost.

 

[Lot]

You have a point...but the result is defensiveness. If you want to make a point, you may want to re-think put-downs and sarcasm. It may feel good to vent your irritation but you'll eventually be on the defensive as others attack you all the while your good point gets lost.

I like you

 

[paradoxparadigm7]

I like you

 

[just george]

.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

I have had this fear for over two years now and it grows larger and eats away at me daily. When I surround myself with people and discuss certain things I start to feel intelligent. The thing is, after I look back at my interactions with people I begin to pick all the fallacies in what I said and start to lose self confidence. I begin to become increasingly troubled when I don't have anyone to discuss my ideas with, this begins a time of stagnation where I lose all motivation for learning.

Is this a commonality some INTP's share?

Simply put, I'm not omniscient, so there's no reason to fear stupidity; I've nothing to lose if I were. Consider it an attribute of Ne being open to possibilities. "I know that I know nothing."

Of course, I'm not an INTP, but I think the principle is pretty universal. I also think the Forer Effect is a trap in that people attempt to live up to an archetype as an impossible ideal. "I'm an INTP, therefore I must be intelligent and endeavor to be more intelligent if shown to be otherwise" leads to all sorts of unnecessary anxiety and self-loathingesque machination. It's the epitome of inauthentic.

Also... r4ch3l.

 

[paradoxparadigm7]

I'm still getting used to INTPs. You guys get upset at things that I don't notice. I feel like the guy who goes to a fancy restaurant and eats steak with the dessert fork - everyone around me is too polite to tell me that they're secretly horrified, but in the meantime, all I can think of is delicious steak

I'm not INTP and I doubt this has anything to do with type. You have interesting things to say...I'm pointing out how you say things can be as important as what you say. But enjoy your steak...

 

[Polaris]

Soooo...you just wanted to know how many other vainglorious cerebral INTP primadonnas with the emotional intelligence of a teenage girl were out there?

I appreciate all of the advice, but I was looking more for a discussion on the commonality of this mindset in INTP's.

The OP is clearly set in a rational manner, this excessive criticism is taking things out of context.

That is not funny or helpful...

There is no fun or productive end to this discussion, apart from finding lots of other vainglorious people and finding an illogical sense of comfort in that.

"Gee, I feel so much better now that I belong to a group of silly smart people".

It's lonely at the top.

Don't worry, though...there are a few of us still left with our balls attached. And we'll not be giving them up anytime soon.

*Tries to get in thread but can't due to the space and time breaking enormously unicorn that is george's and greg's self perceived grandness*

You have a point...but the result is defensiveness. If you want to make a point, you may want to re-think put-downs and sarcasm. It may feel good to vent your irritation but you'll eventually be on the defensive as others attack you all the while your good point gets lost.

You have a point...but the result is defensiveness. If you want to make a point, you may want to re-think put-downs and sarcasm. It may feel good to vent your irritation but you'll eventually be on the defensive as others attack you all the while your good point gets lost.

@justgeorge and DrGregoryHouse

You can read and reflect, both of you. Neither seem to take the hint. Continue your emotionally charged, sarcastic, self-important, self-made "truths" and your attempts at applying your own subjective experiences and conclusions as something that should be applied to everyone and you are both out of here quicker than you can say permaban.

You both dominate threads with this kind of crap. Stop now.

^Read and contemplate. No more chances.

 

[existential_ribsauce]

I used to think like this, I agree with what the others have said. in that it took me awhile to not compare myself directly to other people's accomplishments and to be so hard on myself, I often say a lot of things I do not mean but that my Ne wildly took me to in a moment of abstraction/attempt to see all the angles.


One thing that has helped is its not "wrong" to stop your Ne, I used to always hate the idea of that, somehow that it'd stump my creativity and make me stupid (ah..) and not seeing all the possibilities would turn me into a drooling idiot unable to see anything beyond the surface but sometimes you just gotta shut off the Ne when it takes you to the places of inferiority, not saying you should never consider that you're not better than everyone, but don't let it go too deep, let it keep you level headed with possibilities and not focus immediately on all the stupid crap it can lead you too.


One of the reasons I've joined this forum is I'm severely lacking in intelligent conversation, to the point where I avoid most people i know and I end up in my room sitting in a corner desperately wanting interaction which then sets off a chain of thought that maybe I'm some extrovert (not that there is anything wrong with that) who needs people all the time but it was really that I needed the right kind of people, instead of the wrong kind of people. and sometimes its not even conversation for me, I just love the atmosphere some people have, I love hanging around my entp or infj friend not even talking just sitting, or lying down thinking or listening to music just to be in the presence of someone who you know is intelligent but you don't need to talk the whole time, but when you do talk with them they challenge your thinking and vice versa.

although an online forum can only do so much, its better than nothing and perhaps you'll meet some local intps.

I agree with everything trivial said

as for finding a challenge for me, at this moment figuring out my infj friend is proving quite the challenge.

 

[just george]

@justgeorge and DrGregoryHouse

You can read and reflect, both of you. Neither seem to take the hint. Continue your emotionally charged, sarcastic, self-important, self-made "truths" and your attempts at applying your own subjective experiences and conclusions as something that should be applied to everyone and you are both out of here quicker than you can say permaban.

You both dominate threads with this kind of crap. Stop now.

^Read and contemplate. No more chances.

Is there a way to delete every post that I have made on this board quickly and easily as a moderator, or must I edit and destroy them one by one?

 

[doncarlzone]

- I don't read fast enough
-Do math well enough
-know enough
-etc...

Yep, all of the above, however, I also have conflicting thoughts so I suppose the real questions is whether the thoughts of doubt take over? I suspect the thoughts of doubt will always be there, and I have to accept them somehow without necessarily validating them.

 

[redbaron]

- I don't read fast enough
- Do math well enough
- know enough

What is, 'enough'?

I'm assuming it's some arbitrary ceiling you've set for yourself e.g "I'd be happy with being 'this' good at maths". As far as I've learned as an INTP, there's not much point to pursuing things like this.

Personally, I've found that I feel most, 'stupid' when I'm not improving in some way. I need to be gaining new knowledge, information and ideas to critically analyse and break down, while still satisfying my urge to contribute to something that I perceive as meaningful.

In a way, practising/playing an instrument as a hobby is one - you can always improve and learn, the system never stops growing. I feel sharper in general when I practise regularly (3-4 times/week for at least an hour or so).

As for daily habits, I think it's good to challenge yourself to learn things - at your own, steady pace. Teach yourself a system. I think this is why Architect promotes programming so readily - it's an ever-changing and always improving set of systems, which also allows you to help people vicariously through the code that you write.

I think that this fulfilment of both thought and purpose are essential (to an INTP) in the correct balance. Ideally, your daily thinking and learning also fulfil your desire for purpose at the same time. I think this is why INTP's often end up in some sort of academic institution eventually - they see a purpose in education, and they are naturally inclined towards the process of increasing knowledge. Not that they necessarily stay there, just contemplating why they are generally drawn to certain disciplines of academia.

 

[Melkor]

I have long found myself becoming increasingly stupid the more I interact socially and the more I keep intelligent company.
Thankfully this new loss of intelligence.means I care less with each passing day!

 

[ZenRaiden]

Stupidity is something that is learned and at proper time must be unlearned. If you stop and think about it you will realize that the world is full of people making mistakes remarkably similar to yours. So let it go and fly you chicken fly!

 

[Cherry Cola]

I try to cling to a steady sense of progress and make sure I read some good litterature and articles to spur intellectual growth. I also contemplate a lot but that comes without any effort.

We all have our limits, my working memory and processing speed is the bottleneck of my cognitive abilities, I try to effectivise my thinking as much as possible to compensate, but it'll always be a weakness of mine anyway.

It could also be the case that if you view your intelligence as your sole real strength while you view yourself as lacking in other areas then consequently you subject your intelligence to unreasonably critical scrutiny. Looking back at conversations to spot fallacies sounds a little like it. I think pretty much all people end up saying something fallacious in discussions. In difference to when you're writing in front of a computer there's a ton of other things which you have to divert your attention to when you interact socially. Your output really can't be judged as if though it were written, that would be unfair.

 

[inhibitions]

In some scenarios, I find it to my advantage to portray myself as stupid. For example, I would complain about my *terrible* grades in grade school to protect my paper from getting cheated off of. Worked too.

My problem now is that everyone still believes me to be stupid. Whenever I try to prove myself, they shut me down and say, "Lol, it's stupid girl talking again?" And forget trying to talk to the so called 'intellectuals' or talking about intellectual stuff with people. That's just too much for stupid chick :P.

So, in order to prove them all wrong, I'm working my butt off and getting great marks and reading awesome books and writing good books/essays. I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm going to be better than them at it.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Works wonders in tons of areas, I hate being bothered by stupid SJ types at work who follow the "do your best" motto and expect me to do the same. Like fuck am I gonna do that when it would leave me utterly drained in a few weeks because I can spot a lot more room for improvement than they can. Of course if I said that everything would go to hell so instead I just feign a little ignorance and put a little extra in where I find that it matters most.

 

[Windbag]

Going through the forum I have seen some threads on fear of not being smart enough to do this or that. I have not seen anything about fear of being stupid.

I have had this fear for over two years now and it grows larger and eats away at me daily. When I surround myself with people and discuss certain things I start to feel intelligent. The thing is, after I look back at my interactions with people I begin to pick all the fallacies in what I said and start to lose self confidence. I begin to become increasingly troubled when I don't have anyone to discuss my ideas with, this begins a time of stagnation where I lose all motivation for learning.

The worst for me in all of this is my extremely harsh self criticism of everything that I do:

- I don't read fast enough
-Do math well enough
-know enough
-etc...

Is this a commonality some INTP's share?

Let me share a cautionary tale of over confidence.

I always read and wrote well, and found math frustrating, so I skipped out on math and science classes in high school even though science interested me since I learned to read as a child.

I went off to university to study history, which I genuinely loved. At first I got low marks, and i was confused and flabbergasted because I thought I was good at it and I loved it. Instead of getting depressed I got angry and had some harsh confrontations with the TAs grading my papers.

Over time I got better at it and by third year I usually got 90s on my papers. It wasn't easy, but my inner mantra was "im good at this - what do they want from me!?"

Looking back ten years, I was a shitty student of history with an aptitude for language who demonstrated considerable improvement in writing papers and who never mastered writing tests. When I graduated, I felt as if I'd accomplished nothing because I ended off where I mistakenly believed I had started. My lack of humility prevented me from even appreciating my real achievements, and also prevented me from truly applying myself.

Afraid of being stupid? Good! Go get smart, which means hard work and nothing else, and be proud of your accomplishments and don't worry about intelligence.

 

[Jennywocky]

Works wonders in tons of areas, I hate being bothered by stupid SJ types at work who follow the "do your best" motto and expect me to do the same. Like fuck am I gonna do that when it would leave me utterly drained in a few weeks because I can spot a lot more room for improvement than they can. Of course if I said that everything would go to hell so instead I just feign a little ignorance and put a little extra in where I find that it matters most.

Yes, I've had issues here with one very linear thinker who invests 100% in every tasks but takes forever to complete them. I'm much more "assess the largest spot of weakness" and shore that place up, and meanwhile just meet the bare bar on the other areas... then invest energy when there's time and energy left over to work on improvement.

The reality is too is that this isn't my "dream job," it's just something I do to pay my bills. So I only give what energy is required to meet the goals, I want to have energy left over for things that matter.

 

[AlisaD]

I've seen this fear in almost every bright person I know, and I don't think it's reseved form INTP's onely. I think that it usually arises more from a lack of direction than from a lack of ability, intelligence or what ever you want to call it.
To explain - in my experience, people tend to start feeling stupid when they believe they would like to do great things, or interesting things, or important things, but aren't quite sure what those things are, so they can't quite gauge what their abilities should be in order to achieve them. Hence, they start believing that they are not accomplishing much because they are not smart enough, while in fact they are not doing it because they don't quite know what they should be doing.
I have seen this in many of my bright friends. I keep seeing it in myself.
In most cases, once they find something they actually want to accomplish, they do it without much of a problem, but until they do, they tend to feel inadequate.
The only obviously intelligent people I've known who never suffered from this problem are ones who always knew exactly what they wanted, and one person who seems to have reached some sort of zen-like enlightened state and doesn't seem to fear or worry about anything very much.

 

[BigApplePi]

Does anyone here know where I put my car keys? This is not the first time I've lost them but it's been over a week. My wife has tried to help me find them. She is silent now. Usually I put them in my pocket but I don't remember that. I don't even remember when I had them last so don't ask me! I don't like to clutter my mind with useless facts but now I could use my keys. You don't have them, do you? You didn't take them, did you? I want my keys.

 

[Jennywocky]

The keys aren't the worst part, I suspect you have no idea where your car is either.