Doubts About Chosen Career

[Valentas]

Hello, INTP forum members,

I have not posted in a while. I studied CS for the past 3 years. I find it moderately interesting and am worried about those facts: there are people in my course who live by programming or are just good at it inherently. The divide is big and they can solve problems 10 times faster than I do. While it is true that one should keep trudging along and not compare yourself with gifted people, the one point still stands: I do not have love for programming nor CS. I like them 5/10 but if I had a choice and have no financial worries, I'd do something else.

The problem is that I do not know what. I am 23 and not having it figured out yet makes me very anxious. The point is, even if one does not like CS but likes to develop software, then they should persevere and get that degree to get work in real world, doing software development. This is how I know that I am not in that category: I've attempted multiple courses and books and tutorials to create something but it never panned out. If I was really into engineering software, I would have created several projects over last 3 years. There was time, but I did not.

One might ask, why did you choose CS. The answer is: I found it the most interesting at that point of time. I was confused about my first choice: medicine(people told me I would be a good doctor) but due to indecision, I left med school after 2 months. The reasoning for it was that if I do not know whether I want it, then I'd be in pretty rough spot after 6 years. Not wanting to be a doctor anymore and having wasted 6 years of my life. So I went for CS, where I'd waste only 4 years of life but could get a well-paying job to tie me over while figuring out other paths.

The truth is, I seem to be more fascinated with human body and biology in general than I am with software. Especially, weird diseases. My health went downhill during my CS years due to liver problems and I went to a doctor that use biomagnetic frequencies to diagnose problems. She diagnosed issue in 2 hours while conventional doctors spent months floundering not catching the issue. I found that absolutely amazing and was reading up on this method that is being researched in Eastern Europe by physicists, doctors etc. This experience reminded me of medicine path and I've been thinking about it ever since. It just consumes my thoughts and makes me wonder if leaving med school was a good idea.

Truth is, I can get back to med school easily. But I am already 23 and cannot make even more mistakes choosing career. Also, due to health issues, I do not think I would be capable of pulling many all nighters needed to study at med school.

I'd say that not finishing CS degree would be incredibly stupid. But then what? I don't think that software engineering is the path for me but I could do it for several years while figuring out what to do next. Med school path is long and I don't even think that caring for patients attracts me to it. It is more sciency part of it and developing new methods like mentioned above that can pick up issues with particular human. Also, I feel obligation to repay my parents who provided me with resources to study CS.

Also, I believe to come to conclusion that I am not INTP. I like weightliting, I like moving my body and I am not excited about abstract problem solving. Definitely I and P but I don't know about others.

 

[Sly-fy]

I`ve switched careers myslef. Still haven`t really found what I want to do for the rest of my life, if there really even is such a thing for me. Nothing wrong with a sea change. I have a bachelor`s degree in film and I no longer have any drive whatsoever to work in that industry (after not having much success getting any serious work in the industry to begin with.) And yes, like yourself I`ve encountered people who are by leaps and bounds more gifted to work those jobs (as directors and cinematographers) than I am. You live and you learn, and you`re richer for the experiences.

Whatever career you change to (if you do at all,) some of the stuff you learned in your previous one will help you in some ways so you don`t have to look at your life up to this point as having been a total loss. Anyway, if you start seeing red flags about where you`re headed in life if you continue going along the same path, the sooner you make the change the better I think, as the ultimate regret will be mitigated more the sooner you switch to the thing where your heart is right now.

Like you, I also care about what I want to do, what will make me spiritually fulfilled in the long run rather than what is lucrative (and because of that I`m not exactly the most well off guy in history, just getting by for the moment.) I figure I`m not quite that old yet to have to start worrying about retirement savings etc.

 

[Happy]

Nota bene:

Whatever career you change to (if you do at all,) some of the stuff you learned in your previous one will help you in some ways so you don`t have to look at your life up to this point as having been a total loss.

The truth of this can't be overstated. The usefulness of the knowledge gained from previous careers manifests itself in the most unexpected ways. I've had a bunch of really different jobs, and they all help in their own way in making me better at my primary calling.

If you need to change, just do it. Really. i had a similar experience. I changed courses when i was at university (granted, it was in a similar field, not like what you did). I ended up changing back. The extra study I did made me that much more desirable as an employment candidate anyway.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Ignoring the actual thread topic, ISTPs are regarded as one of the most apt types for weightlifting, so you could consider that, based on the little info you provided.

For the thread... ok 4 years of CS if you don't know if you want to do CS is somewhat of a waste too, but I get where you're coming from, like medicine sounds like more of a commitment than CS, and you're still learning along the way etc. etc.

I could say silly stuff like...

What would you study if the work afterwards didn't matter, it was just study?

And if your answer implies that you actually like to study, then good for you haha!

But nah... idk man. I'll just say consider what other options you have, there's a lot out there, doesn't all require years of study.

 

[Puffy]

Unless there's any major advantage in quitting the degree, like if you're able to directly transfer onto a different course, I'd finish the degree either way. At the end of the day if you're going to do med-school it's as long as it is, it's one year's difference, and means nothing to show for three years of prior effort. Not finishing one last year seems a little pointless, as either way programming is a very practical skill-set to demonstrate a qualification in, and I'm sure being tech savvy isn't a negative even in fields like medicine these days.

23 is a very young age to still be confused about career. I'm coming out of two years of confusion myself, and haven't seen any harm in taking the time to thoroughly think options through. Your life isn't set in stone now, I've known people who've switched careers in their mid 30s and 40s and become experts in their fields. As like the others said, experiences are continuous and accumulative.

 

[Teax]

Also, I believe to come to conclusion that I am not INTP. I like weightliting, I like moving my body and I am not excited about abstract problem solving. Definitely I and P but I don't know about others.

Sounds like an S. But nevermind that...

CS is not an end in and of itself. It can be, for some people. But mostly it's like a hi-tech screwdriver... or a smartphone... lots of flashy lights and buttons but ultimately it's longing to be used for something bigger, used as a tool, not just played around with.

In our university CS people even have to choose a minor subject and visit those lectures. Medicine is one of the choices.

So if you still have enough passion for the bio-world, just inject what you learn in CS with a "bio aspect". E.g. use it to write many tiny tools about biology topics you love. Maybe even make a website and share those tools.

I'd say that not finishing CS degree would be incredibly stupid. But then what? I don't think that software engineering is the path for me but I could do it for several years while figuring out what to do next.

I've only glimpsed briefly at what CS/med students do after they graduate, but from what I've seen it's about data analysis. E.g. Image analysis tools that interpret images from microscopes, like detecting where one-cell organisms currently are in a petri-dish. (practical use of the Edge detection algorithm).

Anything you can create to make diagnostics easier, software "that can pick up issues with particular human"-as you said it, falls in the category "data analysis" I'd say.

 

[Inquisitor]

Valentas, have you taken the MBTI? How certain are you that you are ISTP and not INTP? Weightlifting is not significant enough.

I did the exact same thing as you with medicine. Did not pursue, went into teaching for some time, now back in school for CS. I regret not going to medical school whenever my inferior rears its ugly head. For the moment, I have decided to pursue CS + software engineering. I think you should finish your degree.

It's OK to do something from start to finish and then decide you don't want to do it anymore. Plenty of career changers get accepted to Harvard Medical School. My father (HMS alumnus) worked on the admissions committee. Harvard likes applicants that had very different careers before deciding to study medicine. I remember my dad talking about some of them. One guy was a software engineer, another a petroleum engineer at Exxon. They did well on their pre medical coursework, had decent work experience, and wrote good essays. I dont know how it works in Europe, but I can't imagine it's much different in this regard.

That said, it's widely viewed as a negative by both companies and universities if you quit in the middle. Makes you look very indecisive and lacking in commitment. It's only one more year, and if you like bio, CS will come in handy since bio research is heavily quantitative these days. If you still want to go to med school, you can use that CS degree to do some research, and that will help you get accepted if you want to come to America. Otherwise, you can stay in Europe and probably get away with just applying directly after college.

 

[Sly-fy]

Valentas, have you taken the MBTI? How certain are you that you are ISTP and not INTP? Weightlifting is not significant enough.

No, but I think this is:

I am not excited about abstract problem solving.

...

 

[Valentas]

What would you study if the work afterwards didn't matter, it was just study?

And if your answer implies that you actually like to study, then good for you haha!

This is an incredibly complicated question. The truth is, I have no interest in one particular thing. I would learn programming at my own pace on my own projects, I would study nutrition and diet because I am fascinated by how food makes or breaks us(I frequent blogs like freetheanimal.com), I would also read big biochemistry books(don't have time for that now). I am also into weightlifting and like to study science behind fitness and performance.

The problem is that I would not want to do any of those things exclusively. The mere thought of doing same thing every day depress me. Now, software engineering, provided you have interesting job, would provide almost daily challenges but I do not think that I can bear complexities of real software systems. I recently had to deal with processor simulator which was quite complex and extend it. Found it really hard and not fun process. It is not complexity that frustrates, it's the fact that some people are just so much more suited for developer career(solve problems a lot faster, the harder it is the better). For me, hard problems that do not budge for days frustrate me but once solved, I feel really happy. I also like CS material but if I had to study something else, it would probably be human body and how it works. Also, I am simply afraid that I am too slow for professional career in development.

It's OK to do something from start to finish and then decide you don't want to do it anymore. Plenty of career changers get accepted to Harvard Medical School. My father (HMS alumnus) worked on the admissions committee. Harvard likes applicants that had very different careers before deciding to study medicine. I remember my dad talking about some of them. One guy was a software engineer, another a petroleum engineer at Exxon. They did well on their pre medical coursework, had decent work experience, and wrote good essays. I dont know how it works in Europe, but I can't imagine it's much different in this regard.

That said, it's widely viewed as a negative by both companies and universities if you quit in the middle. Makes you look very indecisive and lacking in commitment. It's only one more year, and if you like bio, CS will come in handy since bio research is heavily quantitative these days. If you still want to go to med school, you can use that CS degree to do some research, and that will help you get accepted if you want to come to America. Otherwise, you can stay in Europe and probably get away with just applying directly after college.

I would not go to competitive country to study medicine. Medical degree, AFAIK, is similar everywhere. In my country, one needs super good grades in exams to get admission.

No, but I think this is:



...

Exactly, and this is what worries me. I just got an offer to work as SE this summer so I will see how it pans out. It is possible I might not like that and I also do not have desire to go do more schooling in CS after bachelors. Hence, I am pondering other options as well. If I knew what it is I really would be good at and enjoy doing, I would probably either quit right now and pursue that or more likely finish the degree and then go after the other option. I can't force myself to be good at something I am not naturally gifted and not enjoying it makes it harder. One can achieve a lot without talent with enjoyment but not much with lacking both.

 

[Inquisitor]

This is an incredibly complicated question. The truth is, I have no interest in one particular thing. I would learn programming at my own pace on my own projects, I would study nutrition and diet because I am fascinated by how food makes or breaks us(I frequent blogs like freetheanimal.com), I would also read big biochemistry books(don't have time for that now). I am also into weightlifting and like to study science behind fitness and performance.

Yup. INTPs have an incredibly wide range of intellectual interests. Choosing one thing seems like a prison sentence.

The problem is that I would not want to do any of those things exclusively. The mere thought of doing same thing every day depress me. Now, software engineering, provided you have interesting job, would provide almost daily challenges but I do not think that I can bear complexities of real software systems. I recently had to deal with processor simulator which was quite complex and extend it. Found it really hard and not fun process. It is not complexity that frustrates, it's the fact that some people are just so much more suited for developer career(solve problems a lot faster, the harder it is the better). For me, hard problems that do not budge for days frustrate me but once solved, I feel really happy. I also like CS material but if I had to study something else, it would probably be human body and how it works. Also, I am simply afraid that I am too slow for professional career in development.

I feel the same way actually. There are many people in my program that are without a doubt smarter/quicker than I am. Part of this has to do with age. I am in my 30s and they are in their 20s. But also part of it is just sheer intellectual power. Anyway, I don't think about them too much. I approach CS very neutrally. If I like something, that's great. If I hate it, then I just try to get through it. If I end up disliking SE, then I will switch careers again. It's not a big deal. If you have children, then switching careers is difficult and maybe impossible, but if not, it can be done at any age.

I would not go to competitive country to study medicine. Medical degree, AFAIK, is similar everywhere. In my country, one needs super good grades in exams to get admission.

Ok. But you have an EU passport and that gives you a lot of options.

Exactly, and this is what worries me. I just got an offer to work as SE this summer so I will see how it pans out. It is possible I might not like that and I also do not have desire to go do more schooling in CS after bachelors. Hence, I am pondering other options as well. If I knew what it is I really would be good at and enjoy doing, I would probably either quit right now and pursue that or more likely finish the degree and then go after the other option. I can't force myself to be good at something I am not naturally gifted and not enjoying it makes it harder. One can achieve a lot without talent with enjoyment but not much with lacking both.

This is my plan too. If I don't like SE, I'm going to drop it for something else. No one is putting a gun to my head to force me to continue working in a field I hate. Besides INTPs change careers A LOT. So don't feel bad.

 

[Fukyo]

https://www.sciencemag.org/careers/features/2014/06/explosion-bioinformatics-careers

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

I was in a similar situation, I left CS and went in another direction. I went to work for some time, had some success there which gave me confidence. Now I'm studying a different thing and I feel like doing programming or reading CS from time to time, lol. I just can't settle on a single topic. I figured I will put enough effort to finish the current degree and in the meantime I'm trying out all other available options, ranging from engineering to humanities, art and all other fascinating things. I found that I like studying languages a lot and it (this idea) doesn't go away (so far).

I wouldn't worry too much that you haven't found your path yet, I'm 23 as well and I used to worry about such things. Nowadays I tell myself that as long as I can get a decent job and support myself I can explore all other options and maybe find something better.

You have time, it's best to finish your degree to not let your effort go to waste and perhaps use all the time you have to try your best in different opportunities and experiences and maybe there will be one or multiple that you prefer more than others.

Yeah, probably not saying anything new or too valuable right now, although I'm reinforcing what others have already said or what has been said previously in similar threads.

 

[Haim]

Yup. INTPs have an incredibly wide range of intellectual interests. Choosing one thing seems like a prison sentence.

That is way software development is so awesome, any knowledge or skill you have can contribute to software or specifically game development, where else can i find something that can combine- programming,graphic design,physics,math,animation,philosophy,story making,tech,anime,logic,problem finding and solving,research,human things(teamwork,funding,public relations),economy(profit),organisations understanding,business(startup/indie),film,game/software design,human understanding(what the hack the user will do and needs),forecast ability,insert things which you are interested in...

 

[Intolerable]

Finish your degree. You are right it would be awfully stupid not to.

You can work in software dev for a few years and take classes in your off hours. Basically use the money you make from software dev to pay down your student debt while keeping an eye on a better prize in Academia.

Solving problems isn't for everyone. You're right the deadlines and such are tailored to a very talented group. Just keep in mind that talent is the same in every field you enter. Some 10% of people will have that superstar ability and the other 90% won't. If you have to live in their shadow I pity you but you can always request a move out of their group.

Disclaimer: The 10/90 thing is a total asspull. I don't know the exact number but 10/90 feels about right.

 

[Valentas]

I was in a similar situation, I left CS and went in another direction. I went to work for some time, had some success there which gave me confidence. Now I'm studying a different thing and I feel like doing programming or reading CS from time to time, lol. I just can't settle on a single topic. I figured I will put enough effort to finish the current degree and in the meantime I'm trying out all other available options, ranging from engineering to humanities, art and all other fascinating things. I found that I like studying languages a lot and it (this idea) doesn't go away (so far).

I wouldn't worry too much that you haven't found your path yet, I'm 23 as well and I used to worry about such things. Nowadays I tell myself that as long as I can get a decent job and support myself I can explore all other options and maybe find something better.

You have time, it's best to finish your degree to not let your effort go to waste and perhaps use all the time you have to try your best in different opportunities and experiences and maybe there will be one or multiple that you prefer more than others.

Yeah, probably not saying anything new or too valuable right now, although I'm reinforcing what others have already said or what has been said previously in similar threads.

I recognize that having a job and not liking it too much is hell a lot better than not having a job or being stuck in some retail position. I highly appreciate the fact that if I push through and prepare for interviews, work hard, I should be employed in the industry. However, I feel uneasiness in me that is caused by not being in my element. Maybe it is my ego but I feel inferior and less worthy if I do not excel or win over majority of people I meet. I know that comparing myself to others is very destructive(there will always be better people) but I could ignore it, as long as I would be a kind of person who just loves to code. I don't seem to be such a person and hate it when I have to force myself to do the work. I am not very good at it and believe that after 3 years at university, I should have become a lot better if I cared enough about CS, but I did not. Hence, my conclusion is that I am not talented in this field and that working hard is an option but in the end, I will not be fulfilled and achieve heights of careers like Architect or some people from my university.

Finish your degree. You are right it would be awfully stupid not to.

You can work in software dev for a few years and take classes in your off hours. Basically use the money you make from software dev to pay down your student debt while keeping an eye on a better prize in Academia.

Solving problems isn't for everyone. You're right the deadlines and such are tailored to a very talented group. Just keep in mind that talent is the same in every field you enter. Some 10% of people will have that superstar ability and the other 90% won't. If you have to live in their shadow I pity you but you can always request a move out of their group.

Disclaimer: The 10/90 thing is a total asspull. I don't know the exact number but 10/90 feels about right.

I don't have student debt and I am not taking it on for a subject that I am not 100% sure about. Hence, I currently study for free because I was not sure about CS. And still am not. Medicine is an option, where I can study for free as well but I really think that I should do volunteering in hospitals and see if I actually like it. I admit that I truly like reading and understanding diseases and human body but being a physician is a different beast. I am not great with people and without volunteering first, I don't know if I could stand modern healthcare system those days.

And honestly, I do think that my distaste for much things in life, including CS, is caused by depression. I am worried about health, career, about doubts I have and already feel being 23 as time to get my shit together and go to some direction. But I also can't lie to myself that CS is not my element and feeling of inferiority and lack of excitement like others have, might make it difficult and depressing life.

There are several types of programmers: good at programming and love it, good and hate it, bad at it and love it and bad at it and hate it. I fall somewhere in the middle, where I don't hate it but I am certainly not good at it.

I might have scored an internship at a big financial institution for the summer though and can see how I like real world software development before I graduate. Sink or swim this summer.

 

[Intolerable]

I don't have student debt and I am not taking it on for a subject that I am not 100% sure about. Hence, I currently study for free because I was not sure about CS. And still am not. Medicine is an option, where I can study for free as well but I really think that I should do volunteering in hospitals and see if I actually like it. I admit that I truly like reading and understanding diseases and human body but being a physician is a different beast. I am not great with people and without volunteering first, I don't know if I could stand modern healthcare system those days.

And honestly, I do think that my distaste for much things in life, including CS, is caused by depression. I am worried about health, career, about doubts I have and already feel being 23 as time to get my shit together and go to some direction. But I also can't lie to myself that CS is not my element and feeling of inferiority and lack of excitement like others have, might make it difficult and depressing life.

There are several types of programmers: good at programming and love it, good and hate it, bad at it and love it and bad at it and hate it. I fall somewhere in the middle, where I don't hate it but I am certainly not good at it.

I might have scored an internship at a big financial institution for the summer though and can see how I like real world software development before I graduate. Sink or swim this summer.

From my own experience I find that I get cooler to a subject when my mind is racing in several different directions. I am not convinced your problem is depression but perhaps indecisiveness brought on by all that you want to do.

You could step back from all of it and just choose one direction for now. Not based on how you feel but to conclude that you need to start opening doors one at a time.

I'm in CS and at times I hate it for the standards. Sometimes too much is going on in my life and it rubs on my career choice and makes me hate it. Sometimes I hate it for the fact it'll never make me filthy rich.

Bottom line here is that you'll always wind up hating something you love because life gets in the way. Stop thinking you can control that. Think of it like a wave. You can't stop it but you can ride it out.

Last point whenever I am in the funk and indecisive I stop everything I'm doing and reel my mind in. We are our own worst enemy in this regard. Trust your emotions the least and you'll be fine.