Do you feel like you belong anywhere?

[Minuend]

I know there's a thread asking if people feel they belong here. But if you don't is there any place or any people who make you think or feel that you belong? Where you are of the same mind, same people?

I have made some friends on this forum. Intelligent, interesting people. But that's just it. They belong in a sphere where I don't.

I have a very dark side of solitude and isolation. A dark place where I'm alone in the cold. It's like sitting by a calm lake in the middle of the night with only the moon as your company. And there you "see all". There's no anger or bitterness, only great sadness and understanding. And it's where you belong. It's odd, but it feels like home.

When I picture myself as old, it's always alone. In a small, hidden house with my cats. Sitting on my porch reading a book, contemplating life.

 

[Jennywocky]

I have a very dark side of solitude and isolation. A dark place where I'm alone in the cold. It's like sitting by a calm lake in the middle of the night with only the moon as your company. And there you "see all". There's no anger or bitterness, only great sadness and understanding. And it's where you belong. It's odd, but it feels like home.

When I picture myself as old, it's always alone. In a small, hidden house with my cats. Sitting on my porch reading a book, contemplating life.

I identify very much with this feeling.

And it's not that I haven't tried to improve my standing, relationally and socially. In fact, by some other people's standards, they would probably be happy with the amount of social interaction, relationships, etc., that I've achieved.

But my internal experience is very much like what you've described. I feel like there will always be a gap between my world and other people's, and that in fact it's impossible for anyone to truly leap such a gap into another's life, even if much overlap can occur. And even if you deeply love someone, the end is always the same because we are mortal: One of us will move on and leave the other behind, without any assurance (and probably a great likelihood) that we will never see each other again. In that sense, we're inevitably and incontrovertibly alone.

and it's a weird feeling, as you've stated. On one hand, I feel content with that because everything is at rest and balanced and feels like who I am; on the other hand, I feel very sad because part of me hates that feeling of loneliness, I wish it wasn't part of the definition of being human. I would just like someone or someones who I could be a part of and vice versa, and not in the end still feel like I'm just stuck forever talking to myself in my head.

 

[Cognisant]

I've been there, more or less, can't say I've experienced something so personal exactly as you have, not to mention that in my case it's a river not a lake.

Do you feel like you belong anywhere?

Can't say I do, I used to, I used to want to live in between the stars, if the night's sky is beautiful on Earth I wondered what it would be like to be between solar systems, between galaxies even, where there is no glare and no horizon to block my view, sometimes I'd lay on top of a hill (or a car) so that for a moment I could pretend that's where I was.

I've since given up on that in favour of change, death is change, life is change, time changes all things, it's folly to resist, so instead I've chosen to make change the place where I belong, I'll never be far from home if home is wherever I am.

 

[Intellect]

Interesting question.

I get that feeling of "belonging" from time-to-time with different groups of people or places I visit. However, I've always noticed it's quite short-lived. I'll eventually grow tired of the people or place, or find out that it's not what I expected and have to find something else.

The only time I've ever really felt a true, lasting sense of belonging is when I'm either having a really wonderful time by myself or when I'm sharing memorable moments with very close friends. Most of the time, these things are very simple: taking a long walk alone or playing chess with my best friend.

I also think most INTPs will identify with that sense of belonging in isolation, Minuend.

 

[Crocket]

Yes, most people on here will be able to relate to that.

I've personally found out that what I want the most in life regarding other people is a family of like-minded people. My social circle is pretty wide in fact, but I find there are very few people in it like me, or people who I can relate too or vice versa. Just yesterday I was hanging out in my local bar and I found myself looking around the place (many people over 30 in there apart from the people my age) and thinking: could all these people really be happy with merely this? Give 'em their supperficial sensational experiences and they're as happy as a kid on christmas. I tend to get somewhat depressed when I can't find people to talk about things more in-depth, most people (especially my age) in my social circle couldn't give two shits.

There, at least I could throw my thoughts out there to all of you.

 

[RadicalDreamer31]

I have struggled with this my whole life. I would very much like to be part of something. It is eternally frustrating, I've bounced from scene to scene, group to group getting my feet wet and leaving. I feel misplaced, unclaimed, shelved and forgotten. When I hear others speak and observe their behavior my mind glazes, and I fall ever more inward as it's all foreign to me.

It's difficult to even define who I am. I don't identify, I don't adhese, I have no worldly passions. If there was ever something that would preset itself worth my time, I would establish myself up from that. But I continue to wander, I haven't yet accepted there is no place for me.

Maybe freedom and lack of belonging are two names of the same thing.

Maybe it's your lot in life to be an onlooker, with a culture of your own.

 

[~~~]

Don't INTPs benefit from a degree of human interaction? I'm sure I've read that somewhere. Surely, some INTP will make the argument. (Isn't that the whole plot line behind Spock too?)

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Maybe a different decade?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLqP4L8SBMI

 

[crippli]

When I travel I usually do it with a tent. And I tend to find I belong everywhere. I have put my tent up all around, I usually spend one day to find the best spot. Behind some bushes at airports. In abandoned houses, where I usually have to spend one day to clean the place up. By lakes, at mountaintops. In hurricane like weather in Switzerland, I woke up, and was worried, as I could hear trees brake very close. Those had been standing for 2-300 years. It was not a hurricane, just foehn wind, but the power. One moment completely quiet, then you could hear the wind from far away, and it was just to embrace yourself. The strange thing was that I wasn't awake for long, I fell asleep again, and slept soundly until the morning. 50m from my tent 2 huge trees had broken, not by the root, but 2m up, the trunk about 0.7-1m in diameter. I had not heard. The trees I heard earlier was further away. The strange thing is that I felt right at home. Was sad when I had to leave. Everyone was very nice the two weeks I spent there. Showered for free at 5star hotel, so it was nice even when I had to visit civilization(200m further down from my little hilltop with a cluster of trees where I was hiding/enjoying the view/did my own things).

The best place may have been an old church ruin far inland in a small village in Spain. It was forbidden to camp anywhere in this area. But no one bothered me. This is also something I've noticed. Even where it is forbidden, they let me camp. Last year in Portugal, 2 times the Police came by and checked up on what I was doing. Same thing, no fine or anything, nice people, only thing they told me was not to start a fire. I think people tend to like how I go about conquering land and make it my own, for the short time I need it.

And this is the trick. When I take people to these places, I feel like we all belong and connect, and those people tend to remember this for much longer then I do. People always bring up these strange meetings even if I meet them years later. But in all the normal, and familiar places I feel like a stranger. And I avoid more and more most people. There are a few people I have known for a long time, that call me up, and wants to hang out now and then. From 3 calls I tend to say no 2 times.

 

[Reluctantly]

No, not really. I don't.

Sometimes I want to, but I remember how easy it is for someone to leave me behind like I'm some kind of freak.
I remember how easy it is for other people to neglect my needs or invalidate my thoughts completely without understanding them.
I remember how unsafe it is for people to know how I think, to the point that I have a social mask for just about everyone (well I know ONE person I can be without a mask, but he can be cruel to my insecurities, so I have to hide them. He's trying to become a Navy Seal, pretty much fits ISTP really well).
And I remember how easy it is for someone to force me to do things with the idea that it is best for me, when they don't understand me enough to know what would be best.
And I remember how easy it is for people to deny any validity to my reason, while I generally try very hard to respect theirs, as I value truth, peace, and well-being for everyone and not a select few. And I don't like seeking how people are opposed, but how they are similar.

It sucks, doesn't it? I'm pretty sure my adrenaline addiction stuff all stems from this. It's a result of abuse in many forms, pure and simple, and now I'm wired to crave thrills. But I'm not stupid and I do think very much.

What you described about solitude and isolation is similar to me. I consider it similar to being cast away, only to find solitude and isolation won't discriminate. It's a kind of comfort, but not one of belonging.

 

[Architect]

Don't INTPs benefit from a degree of human interaction?

Yes I've seen that the tendency of a hard core INTP is isolation, but I've also noticed that too much of that isn't a good thing.

In that sense, we're inevitably and incontrovertibly alone.

Yes, unless we perfect mind uploading into Nerd Heaven (virtual environments in the computer). That will put an interesting twist on things.

At any rate this question has intrigued me. On the one hand I wish I was more sociable, but some deep, deep part of me resists it, always. I prefer getting my doses of people in small amounts. I get up very early in the morning to get some time to myself, between family and work I've always got somebody around me. I enjoy the coast for the delicious sense of isolation and aloneness, but I've rarely enjoyed that in life.

OTOH something in me (at a higher level) wishes to have more friends and more sociability. It's probably training from the culture. Fundamentally I'm not a joiner and am not really capable of it, except for small degrees.

 

[Roboman]

I feel a belonging when I am with myself. I enjoy my own company.
I don't have any problems being social, I have friends and a job.
But true tranquility for me is being alone.
I don't look for somewhere to belong because I know where I belong, with myself, and I like it.

 

[VII]

As in an actual physical place or a place in society, no.
But luckily I live in a wonderful place where imagination takes precedence, like most INTP's.

 

[Proletar]

Nope, nothing of the kind.


Lately I have experienced derealisation from depression, so there is literally no place that I feel at home at, or really feel at all. Hell, even places that earlier in my life just made me sigh of raw relief means nothing to me anymore. That first snow? Nothing. The smell and sounds of nature? Nothing. The summer-house surrounded in thick pine-wood near a rippling river with small, furry wild animals approaching the porch every once in a while? Nothing. Just like Arthas in Warcraft 3 when he lost his soul, my mind is descending the physical world. Atleast in the past six months, and since these kinds of conditions cease, I'll be alright.

It doesn't make me hate the world or become cynical on the other hand. I still believe in mankind, and I still believe in treating other people with respect and in spreading happiness where you can. Because those are convictions conjured with thought to begin with. I simply believe it to be the best way for us humans to tread in the universe. But that's just me, and I know a lot of people react differently while dealing with happiness-withdrawal themselves.

 

[kvothe27]

I belong in a cabin far away from anyone with a library of books to read and a fire by which to sit. . . . and of course an internet connection. I have little need of friendship or a relationship. People are mostly just a source of stress to me. I belong by myself, lost in fantasy, math, programming, and philosophy.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

I belong where ever I am. ^_^

 

[nexion]

I can belong wherever I may be, because wherever I may be, I retain my world of thoughts and ideas that I can become lost in at any time.

 

[Duxwing]

I can really connect to that sense of comfort and peace in solitude; it feels natural, it feels right, like all is well and that I am where I should be, where I want to be. It's a feeling of gentle melancholy-- that joy in the face of sadness-- and in isolation from the viciously spinning outside world; perhaps one that I could join, if I had the energy. Yet it seems to be my lot in life to look on from the sidelines, deep in analysis and the quiet play of thoughts within a mind at once so vast and limiting, a universe unto itself. But, from time to time, some flicker of my heart shall roar into my bones and I shall ride, for there is smoke on the water and a fire in my heels.

-Duxwing

 

[ObliviousGenius]

I relate INTPs and other people to pointillism, a type of art work that utilizes dots instead of normal brush strokes. I feel like I am one of those dots, separated but combining with the outside world to make up one big picture. Inside my dot there is nothing else but my inner thoughts.

I've come to the conclusion that I cannot be a part of a whole individually, but in a bigger picture I am one with the world. Unfortunately I can't yet see myself from high above to see what that great big picture looks like. All I see are the different colors surrounding me, none of which the same shade as myself. So, I feel as the OP feels, isolated.

 

[pjoa09]

I relate INTPs and other people to pointillism, a type of art work that utilizes dots instead of normal brush strokes. I feel like I am one of those dots, separated but combining with the outside world to make up one big picture. Inside my dot there is nothing else but my inner thoughts.

I've come to the conclusion that I cannot be a part of a whole individually, but in a bigger picture I am one with the world. Unfortunately I can't yet see myself from high above to see what that great big picture looks like. All I see are the different colors surrounding me, none of which the same shade as myself. So, I feel as the OP feels, isolated.

Roy Lichtenstein?
Didn't read the link.


I guess everyone is on a different spectrum. But it's nice to be of a similar shade.

 

[LarsMac]

Yep. I belong right here, where I am.
Except tomorrow, the boss wants me to go to Chicago.
I am pretty certain that I don't belong in Chicago.
But, the boss says, "Go", I go.

 

[MichiganJFrog]

In my mind, I seriously live on Titan, in a vast underground structure built by an unknown alien race eons ago. But that's another story for another time.

It has taken me decades to figure out who my friends are and where I belong. There are days I'm still not sure about it, but I feel like the answers to those questions get clearer over time.

I also feel like Architect's link might be appropriate here.

 

[PhoenixRising]

Out in the wilderness, under the stars.. especially at the top of a mountain surrounded by trees. I always felt that I belonged in melancholy solitude, insulated from the world by silence. In this state, as others have seemed to say, I can see the world clearly.

I never felt that I belonged with people. The views I hold are very strange by worldly standards, and somewhat variable, even by INTP standards. Recently, though, I have encountered someone who actually understands me, and who I actually trust. It is a curious experience, to belong in my world with someone else. And I wonder if belonging in this sense always denotes efficiency of thought as it seems to for me.

 

[Extraterrestrial]

Hmm. I've been thinking about this a lot. Where do I belong? I still haven't figured out, I definitely do not feel like I belong here, I feel like an alien sometimes (hence my nickname). Whenever I'm out on a road trip, or whenever riding in a car, plane, train etc. I feel more home than ever. I don't really know why, its like as long as I'm travelling, I'm home. If that makes sense. I remember I talked about this with a friend of mine, a couple of years ago. I told him that I felt like I was longing to get "there", because "there" was home, and when he asked me where "there" was, I couldn't give him an answer - all I knew was that, "there" was home, and here is not. Kind of hard to explain. I only hope that one day I'll feel like I belong or find "there". Who knows (:

 

[EyeSeeCold]

"Home is not a place, it's a state of mind"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OueDvM_wt08

 

[EditorOne]

I think we (INTP) tend to get this feeling that we don't belong in any group. I've had it, I have it, but I've reached the point where it doesn't bother me. Being misunderstood because people misread my words, body language or whatever is more of a bother for me. And I've learned to at least look like I belong wherever I happen to be.

Note: "Working" on belong to a group is probably one of those things where measuring your progress defeats the purpose. I have felt I belonged in some groups from time to time: My newspaper "family" early in my career when the process of just getting out the news took a lot of coordination among people with a variety of jobs and skills and personalities; my volunteer fire company. In both cases, the group coalesced around shared, intense experiences in which the group was successful only because of the total effort. To an extent, you stop thinking about your own issues and agenda because you're busy helping the group with whatever the challenge is. Then, you belong. Naturally, I analyzed it.

 

[PhoenixRising]

Hmm. I've been thinking about this a lot. Where do I belong? I still haven't figured out, I definitely do not feel like I belong here, I feel like an alien sometimes (hence my nickname). Whenever I'm out on a road trip, or whenever riding in a car, plane, train etc. I feel more home than ever. I don't really know why, its like as long as I'm travelling, I'm home. If that makes sense. I remember I talked about this with a friend of mine, a couple of years ago. I told him that I felt like I was longing to get "there", because "there" was home, and when he asked me where "there" was, I couldn't give him an answer - all I knew was that, "there" was home, and here is not. Kind of hard to explain. I only hope that one day I'll feel like I belong or find "there". Who knows (:

I can actually relate to this. The notion of "there" sounds familiar. It's like, there's a state of mind I want to reach, or a place I want to go that is yet to be discovered... but I'll know it when I get there.

Though it could be different for everyone, it would be interesting to know what "there" means in general. Certainly could be an illusion of the mind as well.

 

[Extraterrestrial]

I can actually relate to this. The notion of "there" sounds familiar. It's like, there's a state of mind I want to reach, or a place I want to go that is yet to be discovered... but I'll know it when I get there.

Though it could be different for everyone, it would be interesting to know what "there" means in general. Certainly could be an illusion of the mind as well.

Interesting! I haven't really thought about it as a state of mind or as you said; an illusion of the mind, but it sounds like a possibility.

 

[Architect]

I think we (INTP) tend to get this feeling that we don't belong in any group. I've had it, I have it, but I've reached the point where it doesn't bother me. Being misunderstood because people misread my words, body language or whatever is more of a bother for me. And I've learned to at least look like I belong wherever I happen to be.

Yes precisely

 

[PhoenixRising]

Interesting! I haven't really thought about it as a state of mind or as you said; an illusion of the mind, but it sounds like a possibility.

Yeah.. well I have always felt that I was looking for a place as well. But, knowing that our experiences consist of the interpretations of the mind, even our perception of a place is subjective. Is there really a difference between a state of mind and one's experience of the outside world? I do think there is such a thing as reality, we just don't really know what any part of it is until we see it for ourselves. And then we each may see it in a different way =)