Discipline

[flow]

Ahh, here's something I've yet to obtain: Discipline. How do any of you keep yourself disciplined? Or is that something you also struggle with?

 

[EloquentBohemian]

Concerning what?
Discipline is focus and control. It depends on what it is you wish to discipline yourself in.

 

[Ogion]

Oh, it is definitely something i struggle with when it comes to do things which i should/have to do but which don't interest me. I am really bad at managing things (like administrative things), especially when i am the one to supervise me. When i am the one to control wether these things have been done...
It does not help that i till now more or less haven't had negative repercussions of this (it doesn't help in hte learning process, that is)...

Ogion

 

[Kently]

I've enough self-discipline to do the things I need to do in order to be dubbed acceptable by society. Beyond that, there's no such thing as a routine. Everything is usually on a whim.

 

[EloquentBohemian]

Okay, but just about everyone here would probably ask this question: Why do you want to be "dubbed acceptable by society"?
And in which ways?

 

[Ermine]

Whenever I'm disciplined, it's because I really want to do something all the time, or because I act like I need the approval of others, and meet their demands. For example, I love to make art, but I'm not too good about making finished art on a regular basis. Since I'm in an advanced level art class, I'm more disciplined because I have to meet my teacher's demands of roughly 1 or 2 finished pieces every two weeks along with sketchbook work. This could go for other areas too. I am a lot more disciplined when I am meeting others' demands and presenting my work to the public.

Also, I make an effort to be disciplined so people will stop bugging me. For example, I currently have straight A's. It's not because I care that much about grades. It's so people will never bug me about my schoolwork. I value my autonomy, so I give up my occasional laziness.

 

[Thread Killer]

Outside of pursuing things that I decided I want to pursue and become good at, I struggle with discipline immensely. It's one of my greatest drawbacks though somehow I come off as a disciplined person to people who don't know me well.

 

[Melkor]

Okay, but just about everyone here would probably ask this question: Why do you want to be "dubbed acceptable by society"?
And in which ways?

I don't.

;D

 

[Kuu]

When it's imposed by others, I rebel. And self imposed, well it has to be something I am obsessing over, otherwise....

How I manage to survive college even when I toss all responsibilities aside, I do not know. Must be karma or something...

finished art

What's that?

 

[Gorgrim]

Okay, but just about everyone here would probably ask this question: Why do you want to be "dubbed acceptable by society"?
And in which ways?

I suppose in my case, it is only a matter of beeing accepted as a student working hard enough to earn the free money beeing a student gives. Because the government pays for that, by means of taxpayers!. It is not exactly because I want to be accepted by society. But we have a nice deal still, I get paid for learning stuff, while it's hard, I try to learn the quite boring things too.

what I mean is that to be able to get any further, I have to finish high school and while I am fighting with discipline to finish projects and schoolwork, it is both because I have to if i want money, it's also with a purpose of learning various subjects, I might not like to, to expand my base of knowledge, which sometimes feel good and is helpful.

@ Ermine, I have a feeling you like art class, and that you feel motivated, or you just might be really good at getting stuff done when you have to.

anyway, i just wanted to say that getting good grades like that is nice... would actually like to have good grades for myself, mostly. and to show off. Problem is, i don't have enough drive to do it. appearently, you're good at it.

i just wanna justify working on boring stuff with, it's gonna be more enjoyable when you're done than if you didnt do it at all. And, it's gonna be helpful later, etc. But i don't really get very far at the moment... oh dear.

I need some self-control to spend my time better, and sacrificing abit of the fun stuff. It's hard )

 

[Ermine]

What's that?

Basically a piece of art that I feel good about turning into my teacher that goes along with my set concentration for the year.

 

[EloquentBohemian]

Above and beyond necessities of life (food, clothing, shelter, etc.), discipline comes easier with doing that which you can be immersed in because you 'love' it.
For example, if one 'loves' higher mathematics, then one is eager to involve one's self deeper into it, therefore disciplining oneself to either achieve more experience in this or accumulate more knowledge of it is not difficult.
Find that which you love and discipline will follow.

 

[Sapphire Harp]

Above and beyond necessities of life (food, clothing, shelter, etc.), discipline comes easier with doing that which you can be immersed in because you 'love' it.

I don't think 'discipline' really applies if you want to do something. It's more about focusing and accomplishing those things which you need, but don't want to do.

I find I get the most success if I take some time to think about all the nuances of why I need to work on something, why I don't want to, etc. Kind of like a cost-benefit analysis. Sometimes the only reason to work on something is merely to go with the flow and avoid the lectures / nagging / irritation you'll experience from someone else.

It's mentioned in the INTP profiles, and sometimes it's true - but overly high expectations and fear of failure is, indeed, an aspect of this, as well. If you can identify the fear, you can usually lessen it.

I had a fair bit of trouble with this issue in college, but it has lessened some over time. The biggest progress I've had is I've stopped getting caught in that place where I'm not working on what I need to, nor am I doing anything else. If I'm not being productive, I'm on the other end enjoying myself freely (or more than I used to.)
​

 

[Jordan~]

I don't have discipline, I have desire. i.e., if I don't want to do something, generally I won't do it. If I feel neutral towards the activity, it depends on my mood. If I want to do it, I'll do it. It's maybe a problem, but I have no desire to change it.

 

[Ogion]

I can agree with that. The problem lies not really in the discipline, but in the lack of interest in most things which are 'necessary' (though you know, a xxxJ would probably say that this is discipline, doing things you do not like...)

Ogion

 

[Kently]

Okay, but just about everyone here would probably ask this question: Why do you want to be "dubbed acceptable by society"?
And in which ways?

Well, if I didn't work or go to school and lived at home at my age I wouldn't be dubbed acceptable by society... Or by myself for that matter. The same applies to everything from hygiene to the clothing I wear. While all of these things have some level of self-importance, I'd be dealing with a slew of negative consequences from others if I allowed my apathy to take me too far. For example, if I wear a dress shirt to work that has, god forbid, WRINKLES, I never hear the end of it even though it doesn't affect my performance at all.

And I suppose it's not that I want to be dubbed acceptable as much as I want to avoid calling too much attention to myself.

 

[Calamedes]

amen, Kently. It's not the acceptance that we ask for, it's the lack of attention. For example, in college, I hated it when my professors would single me out for good work (I also didn't really like the subsequent evil glares by my peers).

Now, discipline needs to be revisited and redefined. Discipline is more a matter of how we respond to the needs of those around us, where self-discipline is the reaction to our own personal needs. frankly, I like to think that I'm outwardly disciplined- I get my work done satisfactorily and on time; I keep a day planner to keep track of the things I need to do/give to my boss, etc.

On the other hand, I often let myself run wild when it comes to my personal needs. For example, I forgot to eat for the majority of today because I simply forgot to eat :P

 

[Sapphire Harp]

I can agree with that. The problem lies not really in the discipline, but in the lack of interest in most things which are 'necessary' (though you know, a xxxJ would probably say that this is discipline, doing things you do not like...)

Well, I'll agree that the lack of motivation certainly stems from disinterest. Many things other people find important or necessary in their life... I simply find are not. There are also many cases where the final payoff of some task has questionable value, or unlikely probability - and those certainly make it harder to work on.

Still, I think suggesting that 'wanting the goal provides discipline' bypasses the issue, because I don't think we'll want to pursue even half of the activities we spend our life doing. Still, it can certainly help with some endeavors.

But, at this point I'm a little afraid this topic could swing off into semantics, ideals, absolutes, etc... (if you grant that it hasn't already...) Flow, would you be so kind to give us some more thoughts about what you were wondering about?
​

 

[flow]

Honestly, I'm just plagued by laziness. I think of good "routines" I should start regularly practicing, but I never follow through. I think I'm still just relatively immature, and I wanted to hear from some INTPs who are more mature than myself. I've been trying to think of a way to wake up in the morning without apathy towards everything other types would be eager to accomplish. I generally don't want to do anything in a given day, other than listen to music and maybe read a little. This makes me essentially worthless to society, and the more common ways of contributing (small time jobs) don't appeal to me. I know I need discipline, I just don't know how to go about it.

 

[figaro_black]

I think the problem is that when you think of discipline you essentially wonder how to find an interest in what you are doing and that is not discipline at all. Discipline is getting things you have planned done no matter you attitude to those same things. Thus a better question would be: how do I find motivation?

Generally, I tell myself that I will feel much better once I have done the things I ought to do since then I can fully enjoy the things I want to do, without feeling bad about it. Though, the problem is that I can say that here and in real life I will still prefer to do what I want first and wait to the last possible minute with what I ought to do. Talking of which I have to return to my linguistic essay (see, I'd rather hang here than finish it since I know it will be absolutely horrible since I have no interest in the topic I'm writing about).

 

[Fghw]

I'm only half disciplined. I don't do what I want to do until I do what I have to do,but I don't do what I have to do

 

[snafupants]

I basically maintain discipline with my writing via seeing results, both economically and professionally. Sometimes I need to eliminate distractions though. I recently mothballed the Xbox and moved to a quieter space. I guess some of it's internal too - I set a quota and hit it every day. Usually I take some corkscrews to get there but most times I hit it. I can get cranky when noise, depression, etc. impinges on the writing. I really don't have the time, patience, or energy for a girlfriend but I like what I do.

 

[Da Blob]

What an ancient old thread... cool!

Time once again for the Hershel quote

"Self Respect is the fruit of Discipline, as a nobility that grows with One's ability to say "No!" to One's own Self"

(or something similar)

 

[snafupants]

What an ancient old thread... cool!

Time once again for the Hershel quote

"Self Respect is the fruit of Discipline, as a nobility that grows with One's ability to say "No!" to One's own Self"

(or something similar)

They feed each other when one's engaged in productive activities.