Different kinds of jokes

[Logic]

So here we go. I was in a little bit of a debate with Inappropriate Behavior as to whether or not certain comments should be acceptable or not. It all started when I made my thread INTP Strengths, in which we talked about some of the positive qualities INTP's have, and it was geared towards that. Everybody came up with their ideas and started to make a list of all the different things INTP's are good at, for example. INTP's are smart.

One of the comments was made by Inappropriate Behavior ( in case you dont know thats the name ) He said, as follows.

Face it, overall we pretty much suck.

Sure, we're pretty smart. I'm sure we could form together to make one unbeatable Trivial Pursuit team. If ever we felt like it which...no, not happening.

At best we can be the intellectual/theoretical catalyst that some other type can use to produce some kind of practical application. In other words, we can think up all kinds of ideas but so often it's some other type that makes use of them.

Anyone here want to admit to that?

To which I responded.

It's ok for you to say that YOU suck as an INTP, but dont assume that other INTP's are in any way shape or form similar to you. Your taking the entire typology understanding too far. Yes we are INTP's, but thats not all there is to us. Now personally anyone who ever bashes them self and other people like the way your doing just shows that you dont really respect yourself and you still need to mature to the point where you dont talk like some kind of doom sayer.

We are INTP's and we have certain attributes that make us unique and similar at the same time, but you as an individual should never limit yourself so completely to anything, that is very unwise, and limiting, because we can grow to higher levels, and theres many INTP's that have done this. Are they useless? do they suck? We shape the world with our thoughts, thats what makes us powerful, If you allow yourself to believe in such limiting beliefs about not only yourself but the rest of the INTP community then that shows something about your character.

Now I'm pretty sure that someone is going to say something along the lines of... Oh he was just joking, he wasn't serious, what he was trying to say was this or that... I dont find talking about oneself or others in a low opinion to ever be funny.

Then his comment was.

Yes, the we suck part was a bit of a joke. If you can't laugh at yourself you don't deserve to laugh at all. If you take yourself too seriously then you are probably going to end up being one miserable SOB (at least to be around). Yes, that is just a generalization. You may not end up miserable but the odds are on my side I believe. Now take a moment to breathe deep and relax.

My only observance of INTPs are from the writings of the folks here over the last (almost) two years. We all seem to have lots of great ideas bouncing around in our heads but lack the means or motivation or ability to bring them to fruition. Ideas are where we are most valuable to society but we most often need someone else to actually make them reality.

Then again I responded.

You misunderstand me. I am definitely not saying that you cannot have fun, in fact I encourage it, but theres a line that you passed which I believe you shouldn't have. That line being self mockery and possible hurtful comments to other people. Yes I am aware that it was a joke but it is still not acceptable in my book to say such things. Just because I was serious about that doesnt mean I am miserable nor does it mean I will be. You are letting your Ne run wild with those comments. Plus I am almost always relaxed.

The types of people who get a kick out of talking crap about themselves or other people (however innocent or played down it may be) are usually insecure and are trying to get along with the crowd. Now I'm not saying you are, but you may come across that way to people. There are many ways you can crack a joke and have fun without resorting to any form of humiliation. You should never risk hurting someones feelings.

Think about this for a moment. Imagine if an INTP were to come to this thread, and they saw your comment saying INTP's suck. They may be offended. That is a possibility that you cannot ignore. Now does them being offended mean that they are taking themselves too seriously? I dont think so. In fact I dont think your taking your own actions seriously enough.

Then he again responded.

No joke dude, get over yourself. Seriously.

Unless of course your response is a joke in which case it is fucking brilliant.

Then I said.

It seems as though you can't handle a little bit of criticism. I'm not trying to attack you, just pointing out some flaws you made.

It's not a joke, but it's still brilliant lol.

Then finally he said.

I will derail this thread one last time to talk about humor/jokes etc.

Logic you seem to be of the Ellen DeGeneres (sp?) school of thought. She doesn't like humor that might hurt someone's feelings too. It's certainly safe and unchallenging of social boundries. It is challenging in a way I suppose because being funny under such restrictions has to be difficult. It's also boring and I don't like restrictions.

I on the other hand like the in your face, to hell with politeness, nothing is off limits brand of humor. The best jokes are the ones that make you groan from discomfort right before you break down and laugh. It's like when some famous person dies and within hours there are jokes about it floating around. I love that.

If some joke I make hurts someone's feelings well that's too bad. What doesn't kill you will make you stronger so I'm just making you stronger. Of course if something I do say kills you then.....*chortle* that's even funnier!

Now if you look at my comments on this thread thus far, you may see that I wasn't being entirely denigrating of our type. I did highlight what I have seen by observation of others here over the last 20 months to be one of our greatest strengths. We have great ideas! I have however also observed that sometimes we (I include myself most certainly) do not follow through with many of them for various reasons. A little chiding on that can be a kick in the pants that has an outside chance of motivating someone to follow through. Even if it is for no other reason than to prove me wrong.

So what I'd like is for people to give some opinions as to what kind of joke is acceptable and what kind isn't.

Basically I have jokes split into 2 categories.

funny and no ill will intended and funny, but also offensive

please add on to this model if you can.

 

[JoeJoe]

I guess it is hard to generalize this. It deeply depends on the situation. If you know somebody very well, who is a Jew, you could probably make a joke, that is offensive to Jews and that person can laugh about it. If you are visiting the parents of a Jew you are dating for the first time and tell the same joke reactions will be... less happy.

It is also much easier to pull off something offensive as funny when actually talking as opposed to just writing, since we can influence our tone of voice so astonishingly strongly.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

A failure in the utilization of different modes of communication. Inappropriate Behavior was stating his opinion through his own brand of humor.

 

[Fukyo]

I think you're blowing it out of proportion. I don't even know why is this in the Typology section if you're talking about jokes in general. Not only do I fail to see what's so offensive about IB's posts, but I also don't have a problem with offensive humor either. If it's humor, it's not meant to be taken seriously. It's also a largely situational and subjective matter. There's no cut line between funny and offensive (and for the record offensive is funny to some people), you have to know your audience and consequently adjust to that if you don't want to offend them.

 

[Logic]

Basically what I'm trying to say is that if you want to make an inappropriate joke, then go for it, but make sure that the audience is "like minded" like you. Otherwise there will be problems, maybe even serious.

I like to go by the golden rule, "do unto others what you would have done to yourself". So if one were to make a joke thats mean spirited then one should expect the same result back towards them. If they cannot handle that, then they should stop making mean spirited comments. However if your with a group of friends that understand you, then its ok for you to make those kind of jokes because you will all know that its in good fun.

The INTP forum consists of many different people. Some of these people are leaving, some are staying and some are entering. Whenever a thread is made anyone from 2 of those groups of people can enter into it and read the comments and make comments themselves. Now, if you have many friends on the forum then you can get away with abrasive humor maybe 80% of the time, but theres always the possibility that someone other than your friends will read your comments, and they may voice their opinion or they may not if you offend them, because this is the Internet, and this site is public.

If anyone was in a real life situation then they would be much more careful with their words ( I hope ) because if they were to say something offensive then someone else may take notice and " do something about it "

Most people probably know that there is something called physical abuse for which someone can get arrested, but theres also emotional abuse, and you should always make sure what you say is appropriate to the situation. If your not sure, then its better not to risk taking that chance.

 

[AlisaD]

I'm not all that good at distinguishing the acceptable jokes from the horribly wrong ones, so help me out here:
If I told you to look into Ted Kaczynski's description of a "leftist" as a basis of self-evaluation, would that count as a mean-hearted, offensive joke?

 

[Logic]

I'm not all that good at distinguishing the acceptable jokes from the horribly wrong ones, so help me out here:
If I told you to look into Ted Kaczynski's description of a "leftist" as a basis of self-evaluation, would that count as a mean-hearted, offensive joke?

You will have to elaborate on that.

 

[AlisaD]

Well, you'd have to look into it. Here's a link:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Industrial_Society_and_Its_Future

I think the first 30 or so paragraphs might be enough to get the general picture and let me know whether it's offensive to say you struck me as a person who might fit the given description.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

Well obviously I couldn't disagree with your logic more Logic.

First of all, if saying "overall we pretty much suck" is all that offensive to you in this day and age then I just have to wonder about your life experiences. Are you not used to facing things that aren't positive reinforcement based so that a comment that, for me, is rather innocuous can hurt your feelings? I'm not trying to be critical or demeaning to you here but this does strike me as rather ridiculous. Sorry, can't help that it does.

Now if this is a matter of being appropriate in company that knows you and can accept/tolerate your humor than do notice that despite taking a few months off from here recently that more people here know me than someone who has made 50 posts in less than a month. So is the burden still on me to act in your idea of respectable because maybe a few people who haven't gotten to know just how lovable I am might get their panties in a bunch? (sorry, couldn't resist.....if you knew me you'd know I'm not really that sorry ) (and by the way the answer to my rhetorical question is no.)

I've acted this way here off and on for two years. If you and I are both here for say, another year, than we might establish knowing each other well enough to revisit this. As of right now you are just a stranger trying to lecture me on proper decorum and etiquette which you may find in time only makes me want to be even more offensive. Now that I know a certain weakness I can exploit..... + =

I may be in my 40s but I still retain my youthful rebelliousness and long may I do.

Edit: Damn AlisaD!

 

[Logic]

I think you're blowing it out of proportion. I don't even know why is this in the Typology section if you're talking about jokes in general.

I dont think I am blowing anything out of proportion, this is a very serious topic we are discussing, and it deserves to stay in the typology section because it was spawned from the typology section.

Not only do I fail to see what's so offensive about IB's posts,

Its really quite simple, he said that INTP's suck and I found that to be offensive, regardless of whether it is a joke or it isn't a joke.

but I also don't have a problem with offensive humor either. If it's humor, it's not meant to be taken seriously.

If you don't find offensive humor to be offensive then great, but there might be someone other then you who does, and they may not know some of the protocol of humor or a certain someones "style". Imagine if a person from Asia ( that doesnt understand English humor ) were to read your comments and find them offensive, how do they even know that it is a joke that shouldn't be taken seriously?

It's also a largely situational and subjective matter.

Yes, this is a true statement.

There's no cut line between funny and offensive

Actually there is a line. If someone finds something to be offensive then it immediately is not considered to be a joke anymore. Imagine a group of friends who are making fun of black people, to them its just a joke, but if a black person were to hear what they have to say, and they find it offensive then is it still a joke? Personally I dont think it ever was a joke.

(and for the record offensive is funny to some people),

That is true.

you have to know your audience and consequently adjust to that if you don't want to offend them.

Agreed.

 

[Fukyo]

I dont think I am blowing anything out of proportion, this is a very serious topic we are discussing

Well, to each his own and all that.

and it deserves to stay in the typology section because it was spawned from the typology section.

It may have been spawned from a type discussion, but it doesn't really have anything to do with MBTI, does it now? Anyway, that's pretty trivial.

Actually there is a line. If someone finds something to be offensive then it immediately is not considered to be a joke anymore. Imagine a group of friends who are making fun of black people, to them its just a joke, but if a black person were to hear what they have to say, and they find it offensive then is it still a joke? Personally I dont think it ever was a joke.

That's kind of taken out of context. I said there is no clear line (emphasis on clear) because it is situational, and not everyone is going to agree on whether something is offensive or not. Also, most people with some common sense, obviously wouldn't make jokes offensive to black people while in their company, even if they thought it was funny.

So according to you, the moment someone, anyone takes something as offensive, it's automatically to be considered offensive. Why, by that logic, there wouldn't be many things out there in the world that wouldn't be offensive.

 

[Logic]

Well obviously I couldn't disagree with your logic more Logic.

First of all, if saying "overall we pretty much suck" is all that offensive to you in this day and age then I just have to wonder about your life experiences. Are you not used to facing things that aren't positive reinforcement based so that a comment that, for me, is rather innocuous can hurt your feelings? I'm not trying to be critical or demeaning to you here but this does strike me as rather ridiculous. Sorry, can't help that it does.

It was never personally offensive to me, because I always knew from the moment you made your first comment on my thread to now, that it was a joke. The reason why I take offense to it is not because I feel personally hurt , but that I cannot help but think of another person who may find it offensive. ( try being a little bit more open minded here, it can be anyone...)

Now if this is a matter of being appropriate in company that knows you and can accept/tolerate your humor than do notice that despite taking a few months off from here recently that more people here know me than someone who has made 50 posts in less than a month. So is the burden still on me to act in your idea of respectable because maybe a few people who haven't gotten to know just how lovable I am might get their panties in a bunch? (sorry, couldn't resist.....if you knew me you'd know I'm not really that sorry ) (and by the way the answer to my rhetorical question is no.)

Just because the majority of people may know you ( which may or may not be accurate ) doesnt mean you should ignore the minority of people who may find that what you say is offensive. When your on a public site like this, everyone can hear what you say, so you should adjust yourself for everyone. When you are with people such as friends ( who know you and understand your humor ) then it is ok for you to indulge yourself. Certain things like private messages, talking over the phone, talking over msn messenger or w/e are some examples of that kind of communication.

I've acted this way here off and on for two years. If you and I are both here for say, another year, than we might establish knowing each other well enough to revisit this. As of right now you are just a stranger trying to lecture me on proper decorum and etiquette which you may find in time only makes me want to be even more offensive. Now that I know a certain
weakness I can exploit..... + =

Sure I'd like to become friends too. Its not you who I have a problem with, its your lack of concern for people who dont understand you which I find questionable.

I may be in my 40s but I still retain my youthful rebelliousness and long may I do.

Like Spock says, Live long and prosper

 

[AlisaD]

Edit: Damn AlisaD!

Ugh, this must mean I've said something horrible again, damn my incredible powers of observation and my sharp wit.

 

[Logic]

So according to you, the moment someone, anyone takes something as offensive, it's automatically to be considered offensive. Why, by that logic, there wouldn't be many things out there in the world that wouldn't be offensive.

Your second statement is obviously not true. It is most likely that you have not been exposed to that kind of humor, or you have been, but you failed to appreciate it. ( I can only speculate here )

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

Just because the majority of people may know you ( which may or may not be accurate ) doesnt mean you should ignore the minority of people who may find that what you say is offensive. When your on a public site like this, everyone can hear what you say, so you should adjust yourself for everyone. When you are with people such as friends ( who know you and understand your humor ) then it is ok for you to indulge yourself. Certain things like private messages, talking over the phone, talking over msn messenger or w/e are some examples of that kind of communication.

I'm just going to quote this.

Anything I say, joke or no, might be found offensive by someone. Just being honest can be offensive. I can not nor will not adjust what I say to avoid such a risk. It's impossible. You've taken the risk that you might be offending me just stating your position. You haven't, but I am the Prince of Patience and Understanding (and you couldn't have known that). So let's discuss humor, the point of this thread.

Humor, history shows, has always been a means of pushing societies boundries. It has been essential to our growth as a species. Being able to laugh at our fears, our foibles or something we don't like has helped us cope with those things so that we might have the raised spirits to move on. It has helped us overcome our adversities and except our diversities.

If I'm in an all white group and make a racial joke, then that makes me a dick whether or not anyone of another race hears it. If I make that same joke with both their presence and mine acknowledged then it becomes much more acceptable. Just check out Comedy Central for a few hours some night.

So what? Someone might get offended. If that's the worse thing that happens to that person that day then they got off lucky. The best way to overcome hurt feelings is to learn to laugh it off.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

One last thing I just thought of.

If something harmless little ol' me says offends anyone then that can be a good thing. My time is finite just like everyone else's and I don't have the time to get to know everyone. If I offend someone within the first ten minutes or so of knowing them then it's a pretty good indicator that I probably won't enjoy getting to know them at all and thus I can choose not to waste my time in doing so.

Sure, I might miss the occassional diamond in the proverbial rough but I also miss a whole lot of the rough.

 

[Crazythinker1]

His name is Inappropirate Behavior. Hmmmmmm, could this be a clue that he is not going to be a saint? That he may say or do something that may be considerd offensive?

I would hope that anyone who comes onto this forum would have at least enough brains to see that and accept it.

 

[Claverhouse]

It could also have gone in Crime & Punishment or The Oubliette...

I don't even know why is this in the Typology section if you're talking about jokes in general.

It's not. Now.




Claverhouse

 

[MidnightGino]

Yeah, I get what you mean, Logic. People usually like to joke, even if it's at the expense of someone else, even if it can offend someone. Yesterday, I got into an argument with someone I know (NOT my friend, definitely) because we were talking about offensive jokes, and he said, "come on dude, relax and have fun", and I told him that I like to have fun but if it's offensive to someone, I'd prefer not to have fun. Actually, I told him exactly what you said: "do unto others what you would have done to yourself". So, he kept saying things like "aw man, come on, they're the best jokes! just relax and have fun" (God knows how much I hate that guy, he's such a jerk/jock), and I told him "I can have all the fun I want as long as it doesn't affect others negatively". Finally, he called me boring, and I told him that if he needs to put down people in order to improve his self-esteem (that he wouldn't have to improve if he had a good one) and have fun, I prefer being boring.
​

That's one of my golden rules in life: "You can do whatever you want with your life as long as it doesn't affect others negatively and you should let others do whatever they want with theirs as long as it doesn't affect anyone." Anyway, what you did was a good thing IMO, even if the other person couldn't accept the criticism and use it to improve himself. Just don't care if someone tells you that you're overdoing it, it's better than not saying anything. He did have good arguments, but he expressed them in a way that could be offensive to someone, and that's when someone else has to step in and say "hey, you're being a little offensive, please think about the posibilities of how other people can interpret what you'll say before saying something."

I guess that's all I've got to say... Well then, see you later. Come on Chocobo imitation, let's go.



EDIT: Or is it a Twitter bird imitation? Hm...
​

 

[Anthile]

I find it offensive that you find Inappropriate Behavior's statement offensive. What do we do now?

What's the conclusion? To formulate things only in such a way so no one of the about seven billion people on this planet could ever find it offensive? To be slaves to political correctness?
Do you always say chalkboard instead of blackboard because "that's kind of racist"?

 

[Logic]

I'm just going to quote this.

Anything I say, joke or no, might be found offensive by someone. Just being honest can be offensive. I can not nor will not adjust what I say to avoid such a risk. It's impossible. You've taken the risk that you might be offending me just stating your position. You haven't, but I am the Prince of Patience and Understanding (and you couldn't have known that). So let's discuss humor, the point of this thread.

Humor, history shows, has always been a means of pushing societies boundries. It has been essential to our growth as a species. Being able to laugh at our fears, our foibles or something we don't like has helped us cope with those things so that we might have the raised spirits to move on. It has helped us overcome our adversities and except our diversities.

So what? Someone might get offended. If that's the worse thing that happens to that person that day then they got off lucky. The best way to overcome hurt feelings is to learn to laugh it off.

When you made your remark about INTP's you said that they suck.

Now your intention is to create humor, but try looking at it from another persons point of view. ( empathy / Fe ) You can come off as mean and heartless in a way, you can see how thats possible cant you? If you are trying to create a fun environment then you should also try to make sure you keep it fun. What do I mean by that? After you had made your comment you could have written after it saying that you were joking and that your comment wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

For example: Instead of writing, "Face it, overall we pretty much suck." and leaving it at that, you could have written, "Face it, overall we pretty much suck, na lol im just kidding" or something along those lines. Do you see the difference in those 2 sentences? The first one is much more serious and it is hard to laugh at that, but the second one gives a more lighthearted feel to it, and one feels more compelled to enjoy that humor with you. This is what I mean by "adjusting yourself" to people who may not understand your humor. ( and you will run into people that wont understand your humor because you are on a public site)

If you do that then no one could possible find it to be offensive because they knew you were joking. You cant assume people will just "get" your joke, It is important to make sure you clean up after your mess ( joke ) by making sure that the majority of people wont find it offensive.

Would you disagree that more people would find your remark to be offensive if you had not have put that little side note saying you were joking?

Now the odds are not perfect every time, but the goal is always to be perfect regardless of whether or not you can reach that pinnacle, that is what life is all about.

Read this quote:
life needs life to strive for perfection, but life wants life to understand that it will never be reached.

Whenever you make a comment you should always think about whether or not it may be interpreted as an insult, you can use your Ne and Fe for this activity, but if someone still finds it offensive then ask why and learn from that experience, do not hold a certain belief so dearly that you trample over everyone else with it, understand that you are human and your sense of consideration for feelings is just as vital as your logic, and you should try to bring them both together in a harmony.

 

[Anthile]

What are you even talking about? The only person who felt offended by IB's post was, well, you.
So please be honest and say 'I' instead of 'we' and stop giving the impression of some anonymous masses who were all terribly offended and are about to lynch IB.
What IB did was what is called self-deprecating or sardonic humour and simply demonstrates that he doesn't take himself and his type too seriously. I think a lot of people can learn from that, not just on this forum. To feel offended by this, you must be either mean-spirited, overly thin-skinned or depraved of the ability to read between the lines and to understand humour.
Not to mention that it can hardly be IB's responsibility to make sure that nobody from Mars to Sirius could find his posts to be offensive. In the end, everybody is for himself responsible what he finds offensive or not.

 

[Logic]

What are you even talking about? The only person who felt offended by IB's post was, well, you.
So please be honest and say 'I' instead of 'we' and stop giving the impression of some anonymous masses who were all terribly offended and are about to lynch IB.

You sound unusually certain of yourself, did it not occur to you that there are people who are offended by this, but choose not to make themselves known? People on this thread who have told me what they thought and felt about this situation. I suggest you be a little bit more careful with your assumptions, especially when you do not have all the facts.

What IB did was what is called self-deprecating or sardonic humour and simply demonstrates that he doesn't take himself and his type too seriously. I think a lot of people can learn from that, not just on this forum.

If your implying that a person should talk about themself in a negative way to influence laughter, then go for it. Just dont include other people that may not want to be included. If he wanted to say something about himself as an INTP then fine, I dont really like that, but its fine with me to a certain degree, but if he says all INTP's, then there is a boundary that he is crossing over.

To feel offended by this, you must be either mean-spirited, overly thin-skinned or depraved of the ability to read between the lines and to understand humour.
Not to mention that it can hardly be IB's responsibility to make sure that nobody from Mars to Sirius could find his posts to be offensive. In the end, everybody is for himself responsible what he finds offensive or not.

I assure you that I am not mean spirited or thin skinned, on the contrary, I consider myself to be an easy going person with thick skin, it may seem as though I am taking this all too seriously, but I am just being assertive with my ideas.

 

[JoeJoe]

So what? Someone might get offended. If that's the worse thing that happens to that person that day then they got off lucky. The best way to overcome hurt feelings is to learn to laugh it off.

Sadly, this is the way wars get started.

But I do agree, that it is not our responsibility to make sure that no person is offended by what we say. It is not our task to see to it, that everybody got what we said the way we meant it.

It is however our responsibility to make sure, that we have understood the other person correctly. If we are offended, then we must communicate clearly with the offender to clarify if that person really meant what s/he said.

And seriously Logic: Pretty much everything has been said between you two. It's getting repetetive...

 

[5k17]

For example: Instead of writing, "Face it, overall we pretty much suck." and leaving it at that, you could have written, "Face it, overall we pretty much suck, na lol im just kidding" or something along those lines. Do you see the difference in those 2 sentences? The first one is much more serious and it is hard to laugh at that, but the second one gives a more lighthearted feel to it, and one feels more compelled to enjoy that humor with you.

The opposite is the case. I know people who regularly announce when they are going to make or have made ironic statements. That may make it clear for people who are completely unreceptive of that kind of humour, but for everyone else, and probably the unreceptive ones as well, it will not be funny anymore.
In the case of IB's statement, however, the use of "we" rather than "INTPs" as well as the colloquial language should be sufficient for any reasonable person to understand that it was not meant to be taken absolutely seriously.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

Telling people your kidding ruins the joke.

*stabs JoeJoe with Logic's pointy chin*

 

[cheese]

Fuck logic.

na lol juz kiddin xxx <3

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

Telling people your kidding ruins the joke.

Fuck logic.

na lol juz kiddin xxx <3

I rest my case

 

[Logic]

Telling people your kidding ruins the joke.

It is quite peculiar to me that you are able to pick up on most intuitive cues, but you ignore others. When I said that you can say that you are joking I was merely giving an example of what you can do in a given situation. However you can adjust what you say to fit the situation more appropriately. A good joke teller is able to explain to the crowd that they were joking, in just such a way that it doesnt take away from the original joke. A great joke teller doesnt even have to do that.

Since you are on a public thread you can never (unless by chance) achieve the ideal situation where everyone will understand your jokes because there will always be someone who does not "get it". The only logical solution is to use those kinds of jokes when you know that they will not offend the audience, and that kind of situation can only exist when you are only around people who can "get you".

This is why jokes are a very situational and are very receptive to the environment and also to the people involved. All these variables and more need to be in alignment if you desire to increase the level of comfort and relaxation among people, otherwise you will do just the opposite.

When ever a statement is made that is putting down one or more people, it is considered to be offensive. You should always try to avoid that at all costs when in the company of strangers.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

Here is where you and I disagree. I don't believe in humor as a means of comforting others. It can be used that way but it can also be used as a way of challenging others. That challenging is oft meant to be discomforting and I believe it is the most important form of humor in society.

When you make jokes about death, race, sexuality, gender or any taboo; if done right, they alleviate misconceptions rather than strengthen them. When you can laugh at something (especially yourself) it alleviates any tensions, apprehensions or fears. It's a defensive mechanism of sorts in a lot of ways. The dying often use rather dark humor to alleviate their fears for example.

It has many uses. Yes, some will not get it and be offended. That's going to happen. Oh well......I'm certainly not going to change how I act because someone may not like what I say. If someone doesn't get what I say I'll explain it to them and usually leave it at that. I don't/won't owe them an apology because of their lack of understanding of what is more often than not obvious.

On the subject of people being offended, I don't see it as a bad thing. It's the best way to overcome your insecurities about yourself.

 

[Mello]

Dude, INTPs suck.

 

[Logic]

Here is where you and I disagree. I don't believe in humor as a means of comforting others. It can be used that way but it can also be used as a way of challenging others. That challenging is oft meant to be discomforting and I believe it is the most important form of humor in society.

Sure humor can be used both those ways, but if you feel the need to challenge people why not debate them ( like how me and you are doing ) instead of just saying something like "You people suck" which ( like I said before ) can come across negatively to the point of being rude, but also can be dangerous for you for saying it. ( you see, I am concerned for your safety here ) There is no need to provoke someone in order to get them to learn something important, and if thats not the case, and you are doing it just for fun, then that is even more wrong.

When you make jokes about death, race, sexuality, gender or any taboo; if done right, they alleviate misconceptions rather than strengthen them. When you can laugh at something (especially yourself) it alleviates any tensions, apprehensions or fears. It's a defensive mechanism of sorts in a lot of ways. The dying often use rather dark humor to alleviate their fears for example.

There are many different ways to alleviate misconceptions, why would you rely on such risky and vulgar forms of humor to get the same response. ( plus a lot of unnecessary baggage )

Again, you can use many different kinds of humor to alleviate tensions, if that is your primary concern.

Nobody would like it if they were to be made fun of, but from what your saying its totally ok and it "toughens up" people. Let me ask you this, you said you are 40 years old, ( so you may have kids. ) what if someone were to make fun of you or your family or anyone that is close to you. ( especially if they were to use racist, sexual and dark humor ) Wouldn't you feel like you were robbed of some basic respect.

From what Ive noticed in life, people laugh at any sort of thing, if you were to make fun of someone and they laughed along with you, you can't deny the fact that they may be laughing, but on the inside they are actually offended, so then the joker may start to make more jokes because they notice the other persons body language is "enjoying it", but they may not be, and the situation is still at risk for escalating.

It has many uses. Yes, some will not get it and be offended. That's going to happen. Oh well......I'm certainly not going to change how I act because someone may not like what I say. If someone doesn't get what I say I'll explain it to them and usually leave it at that. I don't/won't owe them an apology because of their lack of understanding of what is more often than not obvious.

On the subject of people being offended, I don't see it as a bad thing. It's the best way to overcome your insecurities about yourself.

I believe you do owe them a heartfelt apology, because that is what we would all desire if we were offended in such a way. (plus it is nice feeling when you own up to a mistake you made) Also, something may seem obvious to you, but it is not acceptable for you to assume its obvious for them as well. Sometimes things become repetitive for someone, and they start to believe that its obvious, but, if someone has not been exposed to that before then its definetly not " obvious " to them. ( Most Ne users believe certain things are obvious and they start to grow big heads from this. )

Humor has many uses, and there are also numerous ways you can overcome insecurities about yourself, but resorting to abrasive humor is not the best way to overcome insecurities. One should look into different kinds of methods to do the same thing.

 

[Logic]

Dude, INTPs suck.

This is a perfect example of someone who is trying to provoke people in order to get some "funny points", but what he/she may or may not realize is that he/she is also being offensive. In which case it is very possible for me to report this comment.

What if this person were to say something like this in real life? They would risk their own safety. They may get some kind of stress relief from talking this way on the Internet, because they may feel like they are invincible here, since nobody may know who this person is.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

If you choose to live your life risk free then go for it and more power to you.

I for one like the risk, the pushing boundries, the crossing boundries. I know when I've crossed the line (the real line, not yours ) and can dial it back if I see that it may have bothered someone. However....

If I use the inclusive "we" as it "face it, we all pretty much suck" and someone is bothered by it then my general response will not be something like "oh I'm sorry, I should have considered your feelings" or some other neo-hippie bullshit.

My response will be something along the lines of "Oh grow a spine you pussy."

And that's that.

 

[Cegorach]

-Thread closed-​

Logic, if you dislike the brand of humor that's applied on the forum I suggest leaving for one more appropriate to your tastes.

As well, if you cause conflict or annoyance where there was none before because of some claim at phantom personae that can't handle a harmless statement then you're going to be labeled as the problem rather than the solution.
In any case I suggest getting over any minor offense you feel. This forum is, and will remain carefree and charmingly offensive, so long as people are applying a basic level of respect.

 

[Kuu]

Trying to hold a debate with subjective morality as a foundation for your arguments sucks almost as much as INTPs...


This entire thread could be summarized thus:

A: You shouldn't offend people
B: I don't care about offending people
A: But people could get offended!
B: ...