Destiny, Fate, Karma...

[Toad]

Do you guys believe that everything happens for a reason? That our lives are guided by the hands of destiny? That all the good and bad experiences in our lives are all part of a plan? A bigger picture? Are you an insignifcan't yet crucial piece of a very large puzzle?

Sigh...sometimes at night, I look out at the stars and the city and think to myself, "wow..." I ask myself, "How important am I? How important are the people around me?"

My answers have yet to come...

 

[Anthile]

Fate is just a manifestation of the will to live.

 

[Toad]

So you don't believe in fate, ant?

 

[Anthile]

Actually it's impossible to prove whether something like fate does exist or not. It could exist and we could assume that it does not and vice versa.

I prefer to have my own will and that our world and its problems are just a random buildup and not some vague "destiny". I want that I am and everyone else on this planet is responsibly for his or her own deeds.

 

[Beat Mango]

^ We're far less responsible for our deeds than we think we are, imo. I certainly believe there is something higher at work in the universe - I'd post more about it, but I think I'll save it for my blog. Its an important topic, especially for us INTPs I feel.

 

[Felan]

While I think there is a higher power, I don't think that power is leading us anywhere. If I were a god it would be far more interesting to me to see what humans do with themselves than to nudge them eternally. It would be entertaining to occassionally apply a direct hand.

I think we are each the author of our own destiny. I don't think such must be a spectacular display to have worth though. I have immeasurable respect and admiration for those that find passion in their life and pursue it, provided it isn't sociopathic.

If you hate your job your whole life, even if you accumulate vast wealth, knowledge, or power then you have wasted your life. If you are a person living simply with a treasure of passion and joy for the things you do then you are living exquisitely. If you are fated to an end you despise than I say turn your back to that and find what in you delight!

 

[Toad]

So you guys think that there is a force watching us, like a tv show? Or more like us watching ants and killing them off for entertainment? LoL

Interesting!!!

 

[Felan]

Toad, clipping your antenna off makes you no less an ant. Just an ant that sees less.

 

[Toad]

Toad, clipping your antenna off makes you no less an ant. Just an ant that sees less.

I think I missed the meaning of that. Can you explain?

 

[Felan]

I think I missed the meaning of that. Can you explain?

Meh I was just trying to be funny. I often fail epically in such endeavors.

 

[Toad]

Ok so screw fate and destiny.

Do you guys believe that everything happens in your life for a reason? That every experience is meant to build u up and make you stronger?

 

[Felan]

The only difference I really see in what happens to people is what they do when it happens. Admittedly some getting an unequal share of woe or blessing, but on the whole I think people make their life well in excess of what life makes them.

 

[Agent Intellect]

i don't think everything happens for a reason, but there is a reason, or explanation, for everything that happens, even if we don't know what it is. everything we do, every decision we make, is based on who we are - upbringing, experiences, brain development, genetics. we can't escape those things, because those are who we are, and everything we do is because of who we are. fate and destiny is more or less a postdiction, or even post hoc ergo propter hoc. we always say that someone was destined to do this or that simply because their life has led up to it.

people like to think things happen for a reason; a family member gets hit by a drunk driver, because of this someone else quits drinking, people love to think that "they must have been hit by a drunk driver so that so-and-so would stop drinking". while one person getting hit by a drunk driver may have caused someone to stop drinking, its fallacious and wrong to say that the reason the person was hit by a drunk driver was so that the other person would quit drinking.

karma emerges from the cognitive bias (see signature) known as Gambler's Fallacy. humans have a belief that things must even out, that there has to be some sort of balance in events that happen over the long run.

 

[Tyria]

Sometimes I think things can be guided by destiny or fate, but other times I think it is just free will. But if you look at free will as an illusion, then things just get really complicated X/

I try to just take each day at a time, but there are times in life where things either seem to 'make sense', don't follow the plan, or where Karma just equalizes everything. In the end, I think that a belief in a system of justice (whether here, elsewhere, or in general) helps us to get along. Even if it was/is incorrect, it helps give us law and order (and to get through the day).

I think that if things happen, we can give them a reason regardless if they should/shouldn't have one.

 

[Beat Mango]

^ ah come on AI get out of that cynicism! You should read some stuff by fellow INTP Carl Jung about synchronicity etc.

 

[Toad]

what's synchronicity BM?

 

[Beat Mango]

Google it you lazy toad lol. It's meaningful co-incidence basically - Jung in his work basically tries to find a place in science/psychology for the supernatural

 

[Toad]

I could google it, but I enjoy challenging people to reinforce their knowledge by explaining things to me....(aka just an excuse to be lazy).

Actually, I understand things easier when someone explains it in laymen terms first, then I look it up and expand upon it.

 

[Beat Mango]

I'll say this about fate: an old co-worker said to me that the things in your life that have the biggest impact are the ones you don't plan for (that may not have been quite how he said it, basically he was saying that there are forces in life more significant than your individual choices) - I think he's right, I mean it's just common sense really. I know it's not quite "destiny" as you're talking about, but admitting that there is a higher power at work does lend itself to a belief in destiny.

 

[Toad]

Oh! synchronicity is like that movie "Crash".

 

[Agent Intellect]

destiny just seems to me like attempting to give meaning to meaningless events. its comforting, but ultimately its confirmation bias. anything happening at the same time can be seen to have meaning, and there's no way to prove otherwise because one cannot go back and do it again differently to see how things would have turned out. this is why its such a safe 'theory' to believe in destiny, because everything will only happen one way (at least that we're aware of), and because A led to B led to C, we can give more significance to A then it deserves because, looking back on it, we can see all of the affects of A. when something is happening, its random, but when we can look back on it, we can give significance to it. "A poor sort of memory that only works backwards" is very true; like i said, destiny is nothing more then postdictions. when people can start predicting destiny, then perhaps it will have more of a leg to stand on. the way i see it, 'destiny' is nothing more then pouring sugar on shit; it might make it a little sweeter, but its still shit.

 

[Beat Mango]

destiny just seems to me like attempting to give meaning to meaningless events. its comforting, but ultimately its confirmation bias. anything happening at the same time can be seen to have meaning, and there's no way to prove otherwise because one cannot go back and do it again differently to see how things would have turned out. this is why its such a safe 'theory' to believe in destiny, because everything will only happen one way (at least that we're aware of), and because A led to B led to C, we can give more significance to A then it deserves because, looking back on it, we can see all of the affects of A. when something is happening, its random, but when we can look back on it, we can give significance to it. "A poor sort of memory that only works backwards" is very true; like i said, destiny is nothing more then postdictions. when people can start predicting destiny, then perhaps it will have more of a leg to stand on. the way i see it, 'destiny' is nothing more then pouring sugar on shit; it might make it a little sweeter, but its still shit.

I disagree, and I'll use another cooking analogy - you've got the ingredients, why not make apple pie?

I like Jung because he suggests why subjectivity must exist, even in a supposedly objective, scientific or logical sphere. You're probably right, out there in the world there is no destiny, but there's more to the world than just what is "out there". I'm certainly not saying that all coincidences are meaningful, or that confirmation bias is false, it's certainly not, but I think some are.

 

[Toad]

But to think that there is such a thing as destiny seems kind of egotistical doesn't it? It makes me feel special. Like there is a spotlight or camera rolling on me.

 

[Felan]

Well I have long thought things are more connected than is immediately apparent, but I don't really see that translating into fate or destiny. There may be a rare individual with some destiny, but that might one person every 30 years or more.

 

[Tyria]

Perhaps the feeling of destiny is tied to some biological imperative to survive, compete, or to protect something. Oddly enough, I think war would be a good example for this.

 

[walfin]

Independent of my belief in a higher power, I believe in absolute predestination. Somehow I just feel that if the universe was really random, we couldn't explain anything at all.

That said, I believe you choose your own destiny. But what you choose has already been predestined.

But to think that there is such a thing as destiny seems kind of egotistical doesn't it? It makes me feel special. Like there is a spotlight or camera rolling on me.

Really?

You have a destiny.

But so does your neighbour's pet dog.

 

[Toad]

Yes, but to believe that everything that happens in your life is for a reason makes you feel good doesn't it?