Depression as an evolutionary function

[Carnap]

The social competition hypothesis holds that depression is a natural mechanism in reaction to rejection of attempts to gain status or rejection of, let's say reproductive endeavors. It is an adaptive function that is nature's way of telling you you will get no where with your current behavior, and to move on.

What is the problem in the modern world? I talked a little about this on the sex free for all thread. We no longer live in small groups. We live in urban society. Competition is all around. It is virtually impossible to gain the best status or reproduce with the best, there will always be more and better. So - depression becomes almost unavoidable, and a natural mechanism gets labeled pathological.

And this perspective has totally made me shut up about my recent rejection. Move on, Carnap.

 

[Hawkeye]

I've never been depressed in my life.

It could be the lifestyle I lead and that I don't really much care about anything. I live my life quite contently. I'm not rich, I don't have many friends, I'm without a career, I've not got a girlfriend and I failed my University degree.

Yet, I'm happy as I've always been.

Perhaps I'm an irregularity. (And no, the thought of this does not make me feel depressed )

 

[Carnap]

That's great ! I do know that some people can filter things better. I'm not sure what my problem is. I don't think I'm inherently irrational, or anything. I'm usually only depressed when certain things happen. Don't know why I'm more sensitive to it than you !

Ah, yes, that's the thing. Some people think altruism is an evolutionary trait and that we can base a system of morality on evolution. But what about people who biologically are not altruistic, rather aggressive? It might be just as much an adaptive trait as someone who is hard wired to be cooperative.

 

[Ermine]

Yes, if one were to concentrate on sex or the lack of, it would likely lead to depression. However, how can depression be an adaptive trait if depression results in a lack of motivation and hopelessness? That would easily keep someone from moving on.

I'm in a similar situation to Hawkeye. I'm borderline broke, don't have a job, hardly any friends, no boyfriend, and plenty of issues and idiosyncracies I could do without, yet I'm not depressed. I'm not exactly sure why that is but a big part of it is to keep my priorities straight. When I give things the right amount of importance, I can't focus on one thing (or the lack of) and be depressed over it.

 

[Hawkeye]

Yes, if one were to concentrate on sex or the lack of, it would likely lead to depression. However, how can depression be an adaptive trait if depression results in a lack of motivation and hopelessness? That would easily keep someone from moving on.

I'm in a similar situation to Hawkeye. I'm borderline broke, don't have a job, hardly any friends, no boyfriend, and plenty of issues and idiosyncracies I could do without, yet I'm not depressed. I'm not exactly sure why that is but a big part of it is to keep my priorities straight. When I give things the right amount of importance, I can't focus on one thing (or the lack of) and be depressed over it.

soul mates!

 

[Carnap]

That's the thing, you are following what nature intends. You do not allow yourself to get depressed for certain failures, you do not dwell on them. You have the correct reflex of realizing that you need to have other goals.

I don't have an answer as to why some people stay stuck in a rut.

 

[Felan]

I know birds can suffer from depression and in this state they will self-destructively pluck out all of their feathers that they can reach. They will also talk, sing, and play less. Boredom and extreme stress, either or both are thought to be causes of depression in birds. To me this suggests that depression is an early development in animals.

I get depressed on occassion. I feel I am more flexible and better able to deal with curve balls than most I've met in person. In my experience the fear of rejection was by far, more dibillitating than actual rejection. Fear that would trigger an inaction on something I or my body wanted.

It is the inaction I think that is most likely the root cause, at least for me. The particular triggers for that inaction will pop up in various contexts, but ultimately from what I've seen in self-reflection it always comes down to inaction. For birds (or other caged animals) its the lack of stimulation and activity imposed by the cage and the caretakers. For humans it the same but self-imposed or imposed by alienation from society.

I think this is also why exercise has widely been found to be one of the absolute most reliable cures or aids in curbing depression. It's success rate is significantly greater than any of the anti-depressants on the market, at least according to the literature I've read.

 

[quitejaded]

Carnap, I have LIVED with a girl who I really believe was incapable of falling into a depression. Her mind was so vapid and shallow. Her life so easy (her parents are rich). And her relationships and thoughts so base... that I don't think she will ever fall into a depression. Life will always be happy and bright. If something bad happens, she'd be easier to comfort than I guess, the average INTX.

 

[Toad]

I have been depressed all my life. I would say it has been a constant storm with brief rays of sunlight poking through the clouds here and there. I blame it on my mom, my lack of confidence, my lazy attitude, and my obsessive and addictive nature.

 

[Latro]

I think this is also why exercise has widely been found to be one of the absolute most reliable cures or aids in curbing depression. It's success rate is significantly greater than any of the anti-depressants on the market, at least according to the literature I've read.

Exercise is nice, I agree. I went on a 6.5 mile hike with lots of ups and downs in a national park last weekend. About 3.5 miles in I felt ALIVE for the first time in years. (I have what I'd call some variant of depression, albeit a weird one.) At one point I even got an irrational impulse to run for the next mile (I didn't act on it, but I had it). It kicked ass.

 

[Razare]

Life is life, if you want to be a happy person, you have to be happy with your life, whatever life that is. There are many people in this world who have a more miserable life than mine, in fact my life isn't that miserable and is fairly normal, but I don't enjoy it nor am I happy. Yet I know for a fact there are people who have a worse life than mine, who are much more content and happy than me. Why? The difference is who they are and how they deal with the life they have, not the actual quality or substance of their life.

Environment is a minority factor in determining how content and fulfilled one is, yes it can make a substantial difference especially over the short-term, but in the long term, I would have to say happiness is primarily a quality of one's mind and personal character.

 

[Toad]

So I guess depression is a warning sign like pain? Some people enjoy pain and some must live with it.

 

[quitejaded]

Red Toad, I want to hear more about this. What do you think your mom had to contribute to your depression?

I also tend to lack confidence and be obsessive and addictive (I stayed up all night looking at this MBTI forums!!). I know that is really doesn't help at all.

 

[Toad]

I should probably start a whole thread about Mother/Son relationships.

I would say my mom's type is ENFJ or ESFJ. My mom was very controlling. She was very aggressive. When I was young it was just me and my mom. In those situations people would think that the son would naturally grow up to be protective of his mother, but it was completely different for me. I was one of those shy kids. I would always cling to her and hide behind her back when meeting new people. My mom and I were always moving. I never stayed in a school longer than a year. I blame her for my lack of close friends during my childhood. I feel that children need to be in a stable constant environment to grow and thrive. Now that I understand INTP's, I would say INTP children more than any other type need this. When I was 10 my mom married a man that I HATE. I HATE HIM. I WILL KILL HIM IF I EVER GET THE CHANCE. She never even asked me or talked to me about it. She actually tried to bribe me and trick me by telling me the guy was rich. Turns out he WAS rich. Fucking dick. Well they got married and I moved out of Canada to California. Do you guys know what it feels like to be uprooted and forced to move somewhere new with people you hate? From the age of 10-16 I was extremely depressed and suicidal. In high school I started rebelling and hanging out with a "bad crowd". But I felt this "bad crowd" were finally friends that I could relate to. I was actually starting to develop a close connection with other human beings and I it was like a drug to me. For somebody who has never had a close relationship it was fantastic. My mom once again denied me of this and sent me to military school.

So I blame her for it. I blame her for not giving me a stable childhood. I blame her for constantly moving me around. I blame her for my lack of confidence in dealing with people. When leaving military school at 18 I was finally able to settle down by myself and finally LIVE. I was able to quickly develop my social skills and not be oppressed.

I currently have no relationship with her. She lives in California and I live in Canada now. When she comes visit I feel very depressed around her. I swear as soon as I am around her I feel like I am 10 years old again. My anger and rage will slowly build up and I feel like I hate life again.

My mother is my kryptonite.

 

[wadlez]

As an evolutionary function, maybe people get depressed because they are not adapting to there environment, because of this it may of been better for the group as a whole if these people failed to reproduce.
As an evolutionary function, thats all i can think of

 

[Citizen X]

I have mood swings, I recently went through an aggressive period of depression, but a lot of shit has gone down my line recently, so I guess I am "justified" in a sense. Right now I feel very good.

There might be something behind this whole model about depression being a form of evolutionary/survival mechanism. When I feel down because my life hasn't turned out the way I want it to be, the only times I feel alive and confident are when I'm competing against various people at the place I train in and hand their assess to them on a silver platter, or when I get to a high point when I go hiking, things like that.

 

[Beat Mango]

Life is life, if you want to be a happy person, you have to be happy with your life, whatever life that is. There are many people in this world who have a more miserable life than mine, in fact my life isn't that miserable and is fairly normal, but I don't enjoy it nor am I happy. Yet I know for a fact there are people who have a worse life than mine, who are much more content and happy than me. Why? The difference is who they are and how they deal with the life they have, not the actual quality or substance of their life.

Environment is a minority factor in determining how content and fulfilled one is, yes it can make a substantial difference especially over the short-term, but in the long term, I would have to say happiness is primarily a quality of one's mind and personal character.

Absolutely, and I always kind of knew this, hence my self-hate which has toned down now but was more intense during high school etc. Why couldn't I just be happy like everyone else?

 

[echoplex]

It is an adaptive function that is nature's way of telling you you will get no where with your current behavior, and to move on.

How does depression help someone "move on" though? Perhaps general sadness or anger would accomplish this, but depression, as I understand it, has a tendency to kill any sense of motivation a person may have. Can a person who lacks motivation adapt? Can they move on from their failures and find a new way? If someone can barely summon the desire to get out of bed, can they somehow make potentially drastic life changes?

Maybe, maybe not. I have my doubts though.

Perhaps the lack of motivation is temporary, or maybe its very long-term presence eventually causes a new kind of motivation -- a motivation to stop feeling so unmotivated. That may seem like a paradox, but I would imagine that even a severely depressed person would have occasional breaks in their unmotivated state. During these breaks they could begin slowly piecing together their own way to "move on."

I could be wrong about this though. I don't have first hand knowledge of how depression works, having probably never been depressed.

 

[Carnap]

Good point, echoplex. I read that it could be a way for people who don't fit in a certain group to isolate themselves because they have no chance in that group.

The thing is today is that it doesn't have the same function, it only worked for our ancestors... Biologically, that is the function, but it is useless in our type of world.

I agree, I find that there seem to be a lot of holes in this hypothesis!

However, I found it interesting to not that even bipolar "may have" an evolutionary function for people who live in northern climates.

I won't elaborate, but like I said in another thread, I find evo psychology slightly shifty and shady sometimes !!!